Brilliant Men Betray Wives

Off Topic
181

[quote]dranon wrote:
What an amazing thought provoking thread! What a lot of you may have missed is the male who is in love, a good father and provider, who needs more than the wife can or is willing to give. I never understood why so many good family men go to prostitutes or have a girlfriend “on the side.” I understand it now.

I have a good friend who has a married girl friend on the side. They meet pretty much just for sex. They meet because that need is not fulfilled in their mariage. They both have good marriages otherwise, its just that their sexual desires are not being met at home. Both their spouses would be very hurt by their infidelity. It seems that they have found the ideal solution to their problem.[/quote]

Hardly. The ideal solution woul be working with their spouses so that can find a way to be sexually satisfied within their marriage. They propbably never tried that. No matter how good a marriage is otherwise, there is something wrong when one of the partners is practicing deception and engaging in behavior that would hurt the other. The same goes for a realtionship. It’s like a worm or a rotted, brown spot in an otherwise juicy, delcious apple. And just like them it can spread. Lying and deception takes its toll on other aspects of the realtionship. And it’s a recipe for disaster for many reasons. But if for no other reason because secrets don’t stay secret. Most infidelities come to light.

182

This “affair” has been going on for seven years! They are both very happy in their marriages otherwise. I havbe spoken EXTENSIVELY with my friend because I did not approve of his behaviour. He tried for years to work this out with his wife, to no avail. She just did not have the desire, need or ability to meet his sexual needs. I have no idea about the women he’s with but he tells me she is in a similar situation.

They see each other two or three times a week. My friend says he is sexually satisfied and this allows him to be a good husband and father. I am not saying I agree with this behaviour but he told me he did not want to become and older and start resenting his wife for not being able to fulfill his needs.

183

[quote]dranon wrote:
What an amazing thought provoking thread! What a lot of you may have missed is the male who is in love, a good father and provider, who needs more than the wife can or is willing to give. I never understood why so many good family men go to prostitutes or have a girlfriend “on the side.” I understand it now.

I have a good friend who has a married girl friend on the side. They meet pretty much just for sex. They meet because that need is not fulfilled in their mariage. They both have good marriages otherwise, its just that their sexual desires are not being met at home. Both their spouses would be very hurt by their infidelity. It seems that they have found the ideal solution to their problem.[/quote]

Hey dranon,

This is very interesting. What is your understanding on this arrangement? Would you care to elaborate?

For isntance; do you observe with your friend is it sexual intensity or sexual sensitivity or sexual creativity ( or all of the above ) that is missing at home/or not being met by their marriage partners?

Which raises the question; can you love and desire someone and not be sexually compatible?

184

[quote]orion wrote:
Alpha F wrote:
orion wrote:

Animals have no capacity for love, Orion.

Embrace your human nature.

There should be more to you then just what lies below your waist.

Animals have no capacity for love? Say?s who? They pretty much have everything they need for it. What they do not have is the capacity to bullshit themselves.

We do.

Yippee.

Plus, not all of me lies above the waist, and I think wise social mores should reflect that, instead of upholding ideals that are impossible to achieve and to suffer from guilt after having inevitably failed.

Since I had this discussion with just about every woman I started to have a realitionship with, maybe I should warn you, it is a slippery slope ;-)… [/quote]

Morality is what separates us from animals, If we do not consider that, we all are a bunch of dogs in heat, man or woman.

185

[quote]Alpha F wrote:
dranon wrote:
What an amazing thought provoking thread! What a lot of you may have missed is the male who is in love, a good father and provider, who needs more than the wife can or is willing to give. I never understood why so many good family men go to prostitutes or have a girlfriend “on the side.” I understand it now.

I have a good friend who has a married girl friend on the side. They meet pretty much just for sex. They meet because that need is not fulfilled in their mariage. They both have good marriages otherwise, its just that their sexual desires are not being met at home. Both their spouses would be very hurt by their infidelity. It seems that they have found the ideal solution to their problem.

Hey dranon,

This is very interesting. What is your understanding on this arrangement? Would you care to elaborate?

For isntance; do you observe with your friend is it sexual intensity or sexual sensitivity or sexual creativity ( or all of the above ) that is missing at home/or not being met by their marriage partners?

Which raises the question; can you love and desire someone and not be sexually compatible?
[/quote]

I think you absolutely can. Just like you can love and desire someone and find cohabitation incompatible. But you owe it to each other to work on your issues, sexual or otherwise, rather than deceiving and betraying your spouse and getting your jollies elsewhere. In a truly good and solid marriage or relationship, you should be able to openly and honestly confront sexual issues and inadequacies.

186

[quote]Alpha F wrote:
dranon wrote:
What an amazing thought provoking thread! What a lot of you may have missed is the male who is in love, a good father and provider, who needs more than the wife can or is willing to give. I never understood why so many good family men go to prostitutes or have a girlfriend “on the side.” I understand it now.

I have a good friend who has a married girl friend on the side. They meet pretty much just for sex. They meet because that need is not fulfilled in their mariage. They both have good marriages otherwise, its just that their sexual desires are not being met at home. Both their spouses would be very hurt by their infidelity. It seems that they have found the ideal solution to their problem.

Hey dranon,

This is very interesting. What is your understanding on this arrangement? Would you care to elaborate?

For isntance; do you observe with your friend is it sexual intensity or sexual sensitivity or sexual creativity ( or all of the above ) that is missing at home/or not being met by their marriage partners?

Which raises the question; can you love and desire someone and not be sexually compatible?
[/quote]

Good question as well. What are the needs that she can’t/won’t fulfill?

187

[quote]dranon wrote:
This “affair” has been going on for seven years! They are both very happy in their marriages otherwise. I havbe spoken EXTENSIVELY with my friend because I did not approve of his behaviour. He tried for years to work this out with his wife, to no avail. She just did not have the desire, need or ability to meet his sexual needs. I have no idea about the women he’s with but he tells me she is in a similar situation.

They see each other two or three times a week. My friend says he is sexually satisfied and this allows him to be a good husband and father. I am not saying I agree with this behaviour but he told me he did not want to become and older and start resenting his wife for not being able to fulfill his needs.[/quote]

Two to three times a week? I hope he does it over his lunch hour so he is not taking that time away from his kids.

188

[quote]dranon wrote:
They see each other two or three times a week. My friend says he is sexually satisfied and this allows him to be a good husband and father. I am not saying I agree with this behaviour but he told me he did not want to become and older and start resenting his wife for not being able to fulfill his needs.[/quote]

Sounds like selfishness is the problem. Selfishness on the wife’s part, because she doesn’t want to have sex and doesn’t see that her partner’s sexual needs are important (I’ve known women like this). Selfishness on his part for justifying an extramarital relationship on a perceived lack of gratification in his relationship.

There’s plenty of blame to go around.

189

[quote]cap’nsalty wrote:
Blah blah blah, this is just pseudoscience crap. And how is JFK brilliant? He’s charismatic and a good speaker who didn’t really do anything spectacular during his presidency, cough Bay of Pigs cough.[/quote]

I think this entire study misidentified its causation. The “brilliant” men it identified were also powerful - and I think it’s the power that’s the kicker, especially pushing one to decide that the morality of lesser mortals should be excepted in one’s own case…

190

[quote]dranon wrote:
This “affair” has been going on for seven years! They are both very happy in their marriages otherwise. I havbe spoken EXTENSIVELY with my friend because I did not approve of his behavior. He tried for years to work this out with his wife, to no avail. She just did not have the desire, need or ability to meet his sexual needs. I have no idea about the women he’s with but he tells me she is in a similar situation.

They see each other two or three times a week. My friend says he is sexually satisfied and this allows him to be a good husband and father. I am not saying I agree with this behavior but he told me he did not want to become and older and start resenting his wife for not being able to fulfill his needs.[/quote]

This happens way more then people admit. Like Dranon I am not saying it should be done, but the reality is it does happen. It is rare (not impossible) when two people meet and then continue to grow along the same lines for their life times. Many people pass up or get left behind by their partner and infidelity is just one of the symptoms of that.

In some cases a frigid wife may not even like sex anymore or vice versa and the other partner seeks out one to fulfill this need. Every other aspect of their relationship may be like clockwork and acceptable or good for them.

In latino cultures many men in the past had mistresses and the wife was fulfilled ruling the house and kids with authority while letting Senior have his occasiional Thursday night delight.

For those that have good fulfilling marriages and partnerships great more power to you that is a wonderful thing. It’s just that the reality of it (not right or wrong) paints a different picture at times. A good option is staying single forever.

D

191

[quote]Alpha F wrote:
dranon wrote:
What an amazing thought provoking thread! What a lot of you may have missed is the male who is in love, a good father and provider, who needs more than the wife can or is willing to give. I never understood why so many good family men go to prostitutes or have a girlfriend “on the side.” I understand it now.

I have a good friend who has a married girl friend on the side. They meet pretty much just for sex. They meet because that need is not fulfilled in their mariage. They both have good marriages otherwise, its just that their sexual desires are not being met at home. Both their spouses would be very hurt by their infidelity. It seems that they have found the ideal solution to their problem.

Hey dranon,

This is very interesting. What is your understanding on this arrangement? Would you care to elaborate?

For isntance; do you observe with your friend is it sexual intensity or sexual sensitivity or sexual creativity ( or all of the above ) that is missing at home/or not being met by their marriage partners?
I have had many conversations about this with him and it basically was the frequency and then the intensity. She just did not have the interest in frequency, he felt like he was constantly getting “sympathy sex” instead of her desiring him as much as he desired her. She was also not interested in oral sex although she enjoyed him going down on her.
Which raises the question; can you love and desire someone and not be sexually compatible?
[/quote]

I now truly believe this to be true! He really loves and respects his wife. She is his best friend. They do just about everything together. This is why I had trouble understanding his stepping out on her. The gal he “fools around with” gives him everything sexually he needs. I asked him if he was in love with her. He says he is in love with his wife only. His girlfriend is just for sexual gratification as he is for her, but he tells me she is not in love with her husband. She stays for the kids.

192

[quote]dranon wrote:

For isntance; do you observe with your friend is it sexual intensity or sexual sensitivity or sexual creativity ( or all of the above ) that is missing at home/or not being met by their marriage partners?
I have had many conversations about this with him and it basically was the frequency and then the intensity. She just did not have the interest in frequency, he felt like he was constantly getting “sympathy sex” instead of her desiring him as much as he desired her. She was also not interested in oral sex although she enjoyed him going down on her.
Which raises the question; can you love and desire someone and not be sexually compatible?

I now truly believe this to be true! He really loves and respects his wife. She is his best friend. They do just about everything together. This is why I had trouble understanding his stepping out on her. The gal he “fools around with” gives him everything sexually he needs. I asked him if he was in love with her. He says he is in love with his wife only. His girlfriend is just for sexual gratification [/quote]

Now I feel mentally challenged by this insight you shared.

I’m going to have to think about this one. What Nephorm said may have some weight in all this.

193

This guy did not get married until he was well into his thirties. He is very well educated, he married his best friend because he he dated a lot of gals where the sex was good but not much else. He truly believed that that this was the best choice at the time but after several years of marriage and starting to resent his wife for the lack of sex he now seems fulfilled with this “arrangement”

He does say he struggles with the situation. These “trysts” happen at lunch or right after work for like 1/2 to 1 hour so he feels he is not taking anything away from the family. He is a very good friend of mine and I have even tried to guilt him out of this. He tells me he tries to guilt himself out of it too, but a guy needs sex, good sex so he doesn’t want to give it up. He feels like life cheated him out of a fulfilling sex life…

194

I think Dedicated nails it on the head. This is a solution to a problem that occurs much more frequently than we would like to admit! I have read many studies that show that the “expensive” prostitutes are kept busy by happily married men! Why would this be if the men are kept sexually fulfilled at home? This cannot be a conquest kind of thing because the men are just paying for it, not going out and “hunting”

195

[quote]dranon wrote:
For isntance; do you observe with your friend is it sexual intensity or sexual sensitivity or sexual creativity ( or all of the above ) that is missing at home/or not being met by their marriage partners?

I have had many conversations about this with him and it basically was the frequency and then the intensity. She just did not have the interest in frequency, he felt like he was constantly getting “sympathy sex” instead of her desiring him as much as he desired her. .[/quote]

Let me start with this point.

I think I would have killed myself just there.

I feel very strongly about being sexually exclusive and betrayal would incite my rage - my stance basically is this:

"Am I not good enough for you? When I am willing to rise to whatever level you want to take us to why must you betray me with another?

That’s where I’m coming from.

Now here I put mself in your friends shoes and I picture myself with a man ( I’m female )who is not rising to the level of INTEREST AND DESIRE I have in him and for him. That then turns my wiring from being HIS “meat” to WANTING “meat”.

Since I no longer feel desirable in his eyes I begin to fell devalued and go from a state of being “full” ( I am meat ) to being “empty” ( I want meat )
Which basically takes me from being in a state of “love” (fullness/ I AM MEAT FOR MY PARTNER ), to being in a state of “LUST” (empty/wanting to be meat/full/desireble/interesting/VALUABLE ) for anyone who will have me as THEIR MEAT again .

And in a state of lust ( hunger for love, not fullness of love )I do see how that puts me in a position of having sex with somebody else/being meat again.

Do I betray my husband for his lack of interest and desire for me and his sloth in recognizing my love and matching desire for him or has he betrayed me?

Maybe your friends wife is the one who betrayed him first, with her sloth in recognizing his value/love/ MEAT FACTOR

ummmm…???

In that light I see how he can claim to love her and have sex with a woman whom he does not love, only lusts.

But who betrayed who first, do you think? Did she betray him with her sloth? ( sympathy “anything” is sloth as in: failure to recognize the true value of someone by BEING FULLY FEELING AND FULLY RESPONDING TO HIM )

196

[quote]nephorm wrote:

Sounds like selfishness is the problem. Selfishness on the wife’s part, because she doesn’t want to have sex and doesn’t see that her partner’s sexual needs are important (I’ve known women like this).

[/quote]

I think he nailed it here. I think she is the the one who was PRIMARILY responsible because she HAS a responsability to recognize that her partner’s sexual needs are important indeed! It looks like a case where she is taking him for granted ( since she “doesn’t mind” the oral sex given on her behalf )

I think if my husband failed to see how important my sexual needs were and continued to ignore me out of existence I would feel ERASED enough to leave him - for three months for a shock then give him another chance. But no more than two chances.

My love has no limits but when his does then he has already drawn the line between us.

197

I think he betrayed himself! By willing to compromise in the sexual area and believing that he could be happy with her the way she was! Is it her fault? NO! He knew what her sex drive was and he knew what the “quality” of their lovemaking was. He totally accepts the blame, but he is unwilling to live without the sex he so strongly desires. I really sypathise with my friend and I have no answers for him. He just hopes that someday his sex drive will wane enough so that he can be exclusive with his wife again.

198

[quote]dranon wrote:
I think he betrayed himself! By willing to compromise in the sexual area and believing that he could be happy with her the way she was! Is it her fault? NO! He knew what her sex drive was and he knew what the “quality” of their lovemaking was. He totally accepts the blame, but he is unwilling to live without the sex he so strongly desires. I really sypathise with my friend and I have no answers for him. He just hopes that someday his sex drive will wane enough so that he can be exclusive with his wife again.[/quote]

Agreed. He is compromising. That’s not a succesful, fulfilling marriage. Sorry. I also have some women I care deeply for and have a close relationship with but a non-sexual one. They’re called close friends. It may be insenstivity on her part and filure to try. But it could be a medical issue too. There is such a thing as female dysfunction. Or her lack of desire may be symptamatic of other underlying problems in their relationship. Not so far-fetched considering he’s willing to to deceive his wife [kids involved?] and carry on an ongoing affair for seven years.

199

dranon, your buddy sounds like he settled on a marriage just to have have a wife and kids.

Unless his wife is a kook she is not OK with it no matter what she says.

When his kids find out they will hate him for it. They will look back at every moment in their lives that he was not there and assume he blew them off for his mistress.

This will end poorly for him.

200

Oh they have sex its just once every week or two… She has orgasms and enjoys sex. She just doesn’t have mind-blowing ones. She doesn’t get into it like he knew other women before he met her. People that have great sex lifves don’t understand this. I would love to have an extended conversation with his girlfriend. He tells me that she is in the same boat. Sex every once in a while and its hum-drum. They both are getting the mind-blowing sex with each other that they dont get at home…