[quote]LiftingStrumpet wrote:
Basically, if the bar is going to hurt you, stop when your form begins to break down.[/quote]
But how would you know the bar will hurt you if you do not get close enough to getting hurt? 
Just food for thought.
[quote]twojarslave wrote:
Doing some AMRAP curls? Knock yourself out. Almost a no-brainer. I think this concept takes on a somewhat different and highly subjective meaning on a movement like the squat.
As Many Reps As Possible before…
…what, exactly?
Your form deteriorates?
You fail a rep?
You are pretty sure you can only do one more?
You pass out?
You feel like you should stop?
You get injured?[/quote]
Ha ha, you’re right =D
[quote]twojarslave wrote:
Additionally, the relative weight factors in here. On a light weight/high rep set I may feel fine sucking gas for 5 or 6 seconds before going back into the hole. On a heavier set that bar will get racked unless I am totally sure I can get it, and once I get out of my rhythm that certainty evaporates rather quickly.
As you already stated, the AMRAP “sweet spot” is not something that a beginner is likely to have a good feel for without the awareness that comes with time under the bar spent pushing your limits.
And this lifter would recommend a conservative approach to finding those limits.
[/quote]
I definitely agree with you on this. It’s just hard to push your limit without feeling like you’re going to die. I don’t think you can reach this while being conservative.
Then, I suppose the entire point of finding the AMRAP “sweet spot” is knowing the difference between “you’re going to die” and “you feel like you’re going to die”.
And, then again, I absolutely refused to even push myself on the squat until I felt absolutely confident with my squat form. I think that’s the reason why I only go balls out with the squat while every other major lift I am much more conservative on. I am quite confident with my squat form, while everything else I am ambivalent on.
So I guess what I’m saying is- Don’t approach “you feel like you’re going to die” unless you’re confident of your form?
Then what if your form isn’t really that good and it’s all just in your head? Just today I saw some random guy(A) teaching some other random guy(B) how to deadlift. B’s form was atrocious, and A’s form was passable. A kept telling B that his form was getting better and better. As far as I can see, it got worse as he got more and more fatigued.
Blah, this is becoming incoherent now. I’ll stop.
When I was doing 20 rep squats (which, really, was an AMRAP set where I increased the weight next session if I hit 20), I pretty much just pushed until I couldn’t do another rep, and/or until I was pretty sure I’d pass out the next rep if I tried. Usually in the latter case, I’d just rack it for a second, then resume. I had safety bars in place though if anything went wrong, so that helped.
My form wasn’t atrocious, but it wasn’t good. There were a lot of “squat-mornings” in there, but in the objective sense of a squat being purely “down to parallel, then back up standing”, they were all legit squats. But I don’t really think the weight was enough to actually cause issues anyway. It wasn’t until I started working in triples, doubles and singles that I felt like form really mattered, from an injury standpoint.
EDIT:
I suppose I should add that these days when doing an actual AMRAP set (e.g., greyskull 5+), I stop when I get out of the groove, which happens to also be the same time that I’ll most likely fail the next rep.
I really find this topic interesting, especially since it is Friday and I am killing time before leaving work to go lift.
On one hand, staying conservative when finding your limits on a movement like the squat keeps you safe. That said, having a bit of a crazy streak can pay off, and it has for me at times. I’m not sure you will ever find your limit, let alone push past it, if you don’t figure out how to really keep your foot on the gas without hurting yourself.
I think it all goes back to this idea of a sweet spot on any squat set where you are going for AMRAP, be it light or heavy. With just over 12 months under the bar with no significant breaks and twice per week squatting, I can now say I’m starting to get a pretty good feel for that sweet spot.
This all ties in with the very nebulous concept of intensity, which is something every lifter thinks he or she has, but is surprisingly difficult to observe when one is in a commercial gym setting.
Now I’m just rambling too. Time to fill up my gallon water jug and slam a shake so I can explore these concepts firsthand.
Happy weekend!
Truthfully, I never managed to get bigger and stronger when I avoided bad form. It was only when I allowed form to deviate that I experienced success.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
Truthfully, I never managed to get bigger and stronger when I avoided bad form. It was only when I allowed form to deviate that I experienced success.[/quote]
I think it depends what level you’re at. I know you’re a beast and you won’t have any issues, but I’m reminded that there are also people reading this who get injured squatting 75lbs. They need to keep good form. They probably need to learn good form first.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
Truthfully, I never managed to get bigger and stronger when I avoided bad form. It was only when I allowed form to deviate that I experienced success.[/quote]
You are a beast and things that work for beasts do not necessarily work for weaklings =(
I definitely agree, good form should be learned, but I think the issue is that people try to combine the learning of form with the training for strength, and in turn just do a bad job at both.
I find that the biggest issues with beginners is that they tend to be so detrained that the move to start using weights is foolish. If I were to train someone from the ground up, 3-6 months would be spent playing sports, then another 3-6 months would be spent with some basic bodyweight work to develop some strength, and during this time with down time we would drill technique with the bar. After this time elapsed, then we’d finally move on to actually trying to get bigger and stronger with weights. Instead, most people just skip straight to the weights and try to do it all at once.
In turn, we see people be “beginners” for YEARS because they keep resetting the weight they are working at because form starts to deviate and they concern themselves with injury. Once I made peace with the fact that I was going to get injured, my progress really took off. And yes, I have been injured, many times, but I can always train through or around it, and at this point, I am stronger injured than a lot of people are healthy, and I am ok with that.
^ I think everyone who takes up lifting should be prepared for the fact that most of us are going to get injured somewhere along the way. The only thing we can do is minimize the risk of injury, and use injuries as a learning tool to further progress.
This isn’t an inherently healthy sport if one has the goal of lifting ridiculous amounts of weights and/or building above average levels of muscle mass.
This is something people need to know before making any New Year resolutions regarding fitness goals.
“and use injuries as a learning tool to further progress.”
The last injury I incurred was a pulled groin from BJJ. My sparring partner had about 30 lbs on me and very aggressive. Fuckin Russians. He was spazzing out, so I decided to sweep him so I can keep him under better control until we switched partners. The sweep was successful, but I also tweaked my groin in the process. I finished training that day, but noticed the following day that I wouldn’t be training for at least a while.
It killed me that I couldn’t train, let alone even go jogging, so I made use of my time and spent quality time observing others in muay thai and jitz. Not gonna lie, spent some quality time with food as well.
During my downtime I had the opportunity to reflect on technique… And of course, the involvement and importance of my adductor muscles when pulling someone in guard.
Without a doubt, my groin injury was a blessing in disguise. But I could also see how someone could use it as an excuse or deterrent instead.