Well, to be fair, I am talking about that small percentage who get credits over and above what they paid in. I think the Earned Income Tax Credit is a part of that.[/quote]
Ahhh. Okay. Fair enough.
Personally those government transfers don’t bother me. Mainly because you typically have to work to get most refundable credits.
(In fact the vast majority of individual writeoffs, which amount mostly to government incentives to behave in a certain way, I don’t have large issue with because you typically have to work in order to get them.)
Agreed. I don’t have a problem with SS as it pertains to people getting money in retirement. My issue with it comes in the fact its a Ponzi and will crumble eventually. We just need to reorganize it really.
Well in this example and others you listed, lets remove people who commit fraud. At best the lunches and drinks should be 50% deductible, and even then they are walking a fine line.
The BMW should be subject to limits, but often times isn’t reported that way. This is fraud. Limits both on depreciation (bulk of the expense) even if 100% business use, and limits on deductibility based on business use.
There are some stupid laws on the books for sure, you’ll not see me argue that. However, we need to be very careful and go through them one by one. Because a law that seems stupid might actually be very beneficial for the smaller companies that really make the world go around.
Well, to be fair, I am talking about that small percentage who get credits over and above what they paid in. I think the Earned Income Tax Credit is a part of that.[/quote]
Ahhh. Okay. Fair enough.
Personally those government transfers don’t bother me. Mainly because you typically have to work to get most refundable credits.
(In fact the vast majority of individual writeoffs, which amount mostly to government incentives to behave in a certain way, I don’t have large issue with because you typically have to work in order to get them.)
Agreed. I don’t have a problem with SS as it pertains to people getting money in retirement. My issue with it comes in the fact its a Ponzi and will crumble eventually. We just need to reorganize it really.
Well in this example and others you listed, lets remove people who commit fraud. At best the lunches and drinks should be 50% deductible, and even then they are walking a fine line.
The BMW should be subject to limits, but often times isn’t reported that way. This is fraud. Limits both on depreciation (bulk of the expense) even if 100% business use, and limits on deductibility based on business use.
There are some stupid laws on the books for sure, you’ll not see me argue that. However, we need to be very careful and go through them one by one. Because a law that seems stupid might actually be very beneficial for the smaller companies that really make the world go around.
[/quote]
I’ve floated my revolutionary idea for changing the tax code entirely in here before, but I’ll do so again since I haven’t done so in a couple years.
First of all, April 15th should mark Tax WEEK, not Tax Day. For the first few years of my plan’s implementation, we would vote on just a few key things, but the idea is to expand over the course of maybe 20 years.
We would go into voting booths and our individual little tax accounts would state what percentage of our income is being taken in federal taxes, along with the actual dollar amount. At first, we might get a 10% chunk of that tax total to spread around where WE want it. The idea is to develop this system where WE decide directly where we want our money to go. Want to dump all your federal taxes into education or the military? Fucking go for it. It’s your money.
We would have to go slowly, hence allotting just 10% of what is taxed for this purpose at first. (Begin sarcasm) It would be a shock to the system that the country isn’t ready for if we let everyone determine the direction of their tax money. I mean, that’s why the gov’t takes it from us and spends it for us, right? Because we’re only smart enough to earn the money, but not smart enough to spend it, right?(end sarcasm)
With this sort of a system, we would accomplish several things. First off, tax money would get spent where the people who EARNED that money want it to get spent. If we have problems as a result, we only have us to blame. Any elected or appointed official would be required to publicize the results of their voting for their constituents to see. We would also engender a less laissez-faire attitude toward politics.
If you spend a lot of time in this forum, it’s easy to fall prey to the idea that most Americans actually give a shit about what goes on in this country. The meathook reality is that most Americans don’t give one flying fuck about what happens in this country as long as their iPhone charges up and they can remember their password to their Facebook or Instagram account.
You force all taxpayers and workers into the booths every year, with a full week to do so, and people will start paying a whole helluva lot more attention to what goes on around here. Like I’ve said in the past, if you’re going to sink all your money into public education, you’re damn sure going to pay attention to what the Federal Education Czar is up to.
Now, here’s where my theory has taken a shift in a new, exciting direction. Fuck states. That’s right, we get rid of states as we know it. There would be no more geographical boundaries, which are pretty much arbitrary at best now. I’m talking about the United States of Mind!
That’s right. You can sign up to join any state you want, provided you are only in one state at a time. It would be like registering for political party affiliation. Except that the different states of mind would have to pay a small percentage, maybe 3-5% of their total income to the programs that that particular state of mind endorses.
Are you in an anti-war state of mind? Then you get direct Anti-War State of Mind representation in Congress. I have two Senators in this state who ostensibly represent me, but neither Feinstein nor Boxer are anywhere near me on the political spectrum. And they don’t really represent me at all. They don’t even represent the people who did vote for them, only the ones who filled their campaign coffers. The same goes for the other side of the aisle.
Do you think Eric Cantor went around thinking he had some sort of obligation to the Democrats in his district? Of course not, even though he certainly DID have an obligation to them. Representatives represent the entire district, not just the likeminded within it. But the reality is that representatives don’t give a FUCK about anyone other than the people who put them in office, and that starts and stops with donors.
Fuck the way the system works now. The Constitution is a fucking joke. Our political system is a fucking joke. We need people who think completely outside the box, and I think these two ideas are an excellent way to start the shakeup.
And the best part about my tax code is that we could actually tax the rich LESS than the poor and make both sides of the aisle happy. The rich wouldn’t complain because they’d be in a lower tax bracket, just like they’ve always wanted. And the middle class (what’s left of it) and the poor wouldn’t complain because by putting the rich in a lower tax bracket, the actual dollar amount that the rich spends is closer to that of the rest of the country. So there would be less bitching about undue influence from the 1%.
Another aspect to my tax code is, well…it isn’t really an aspect to my tax code at all, but we should also be drug-testing the shit out of any and all elected representatives. And furthermore, they should all be subject to 24-hour drone surveillance, especially any representative who accepts political donations from companies that make drones.
I would gladly give up write-offs and itemized deductions in favor of entitlements. I am all for getting rid of corporate tax loopholes too. I’m also for slashing the corporate tax rate. I wish I could see the stats in individual write-offs vs. entitlements when it comes to the total cost.
Corporations and business are a different argument in my opinion. If a business cuts expenses (via write offs) and is able to hire more employees who were unemployed and now are able to pay taxes, isn’t that a good thing?
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
How many people who are against entitlement programs but who also receive a tax refund never, ever cash that check?
[/quote]
How on Earth is getting back the excess money you paid in, that you don’t owe in tax, an entitlement?
OUtside of the smaller percentage of poorer people who get refundable credits over and above what they paid in, refunds are just the extra money you paid into the state throughout the year in excess of what you owed the state for working.
That isn’t an entitlement. [/quote]
No to mention it’s an interest free loan to the government.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
How many people who are against entitlement programs refuse to write off the interest paid on their mortgage every year?
How many people who are against entitlement programs but who also receive a tax refund never, ever cash that check?
How many people who are against entitlement programs have never written ANYTHING off on their tax returns?[/quote]
How is writing off interest, claiming deductions in a fucked up tax code that WE didn’t write and cashing a check on excess taxes taken from money I’VE EARNED equivalent to an entitlement program?
I EARNED my money. The government TAKES my money - if I don’t give it to them, they will garnish my wages/throw me in jail. They offer loopholes to get some of it back. That’s not an entitlement, that’s getting back what’s MINE… Something I EARNED. It’s not a hand out.[/quote]
Not all tax writeoffs are “earned”. Are you entitled to a tax writeoff on the interest on your mortgage? Why? Why should the other taxpayers subsidize your ownership of your house? And who cares how fucked up the tax code is? That is irrelevant to my point. The fact is that you DO take advantage of that part of the tax code because it benefits you. People who cash in on entitlement programs aren’t doing anything any differently than you. They’re taking advantage of the system to their benefit. That’s pretty much how everyone operates. We operate primarily with self-interest in mind. Ideology is secondary to that, but we spend an inordinate amount of time trying to create a different illusion, one that places our ideology in front of everything else. As if we’re all a bunch of fucking altruists, when we are definitely not.
And I’m not talking about getting back some of your taxes in the form of writeoffs. I’m talking about things like writing off your corporate lunch where everyone had three martinis. Yeah, I used to go to those sorts of lunches when I was an estimator for a large, commercial HVAC company. We used to write off EVERYTHING, especially when I was fucking the owner’s daughter. That is an entitlement program. There are all sorts of examples like that.
What about all the conservative farmers in the Sacramento Valley who are essentially on agricultural welfare? Oh, but wait, that’s DIFFERENT.
What about corporations writing off things like private jet fuel as a business expense? That, too, is an entitlement program. I could go on and on. Entitlement programs are everywhere, but it seems to me that the only ones people don’t like are the ones that they don’t directly benefit from.[/quote]
No one is “subsidizing” the ownership of my house. If there is a tax code that is in place to encourage home ownership because that is the policy of the lawmakers who write the tax code to allow mortgage interest to be written off, then why should I not take advantage of that to get MY money back from the greedy fuckers in the government?
Same with jet fuel and martinis. It’s a write off on money that was EARNED. An entitlement program is giving people free shit (food, money, housing, medical) that they have NOT earned. I work 80 fucking hours a week and keep 65 cents on the dollar now that I stopped paying SS for the year. I PAY MY DUES. I don’t get handouts. It’s MY money that they are giving away.
For the record, I’m all for a flat tax/sales tax that EVERYONE pays the same. But me getting money I EARNED back, legally through existing tax code is not an entitlement. I never got a handout from anyone and I’ve never claimed unemployment.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
How many people who are against entitlement programs refuse to write off the interest paid on their mortgage every year?
How many people who are against entitlement programs but who also receive a tax refund never, ever cash that check?
How many people who are against entitlement programs have never written ANYTHING off on their tax returns?[/quote]
How is writing off interest, claiming deductions in a fucked up tax code that WE didn’t write and cashing a check on excess taxes taken from money I’VE EARNED equivalent to an entitlement program?
I EARNED my money. The government TAKES my money - if I don’t give it to them, they will garnish my wages/throw me in jail. They offer loopholes to get some of it back. That’s not an entitlement, that’s getting back what’s MINE… Something I EARNED. It’s not a hand out.[/quote]
Not all tax writeoffs are “earned”. Are you entitled to a tax writeoff on the interest on your mortgage? Why? Why should the other taxpayers subsidize your ownership of your house? And who cares how fucked up the tax code is? That is irrelevant to my point. The fact is that you DO take advantage of that part of the tax code because it benefits you. People who cash in on entitlement programs aren’t doing anything any differently than you. They’re taking advantage of the system to their benefit. That’s pretty much how everyone operates. We operate primarily with self-interest in mind. Ideology is secondary to that, but we spend an inordinate amount of time trying to create a different illusion, one that places our ideology in front of everything else. As if we’re all a bunch of fucking altruists, when we are definitely not.
And I’m not talking about getting back some of your taxes in the form of writeoffs. I’m talking about things like writing off your corporate lunch where everyone had three martinis. Yeah, I used to go to those sorts of lunches when I was an estimator for a large, commercial HVAC company. We used to write off EVERYTHING, especially when I was fucking the owner’s daughter. That is an entitlement program. There are all sorts of examples like that.
What about all the conservative farmers in the Sacramento Valley who are essentially on agricultural welfare? Oh, but wait, that’s DIFFERENT.
What about corporations writing off things like private jet fuel as a business expense? That, too, is an entitlement program. I could go on and on. Entitlement programs are everywhere, but it seems to me that the only ones people don’t like are the ones that they don’t directly benefit from.[/quote]
No one is “subsidizing” the ownership of my house. If there is a tax code that is in place to encourage home ownership because that is the policy of the lawmakers who write the tax code to allow mortgage interest to be written off, then why should I not take advantage of that to get MY money back from the greedy fuckers in the government?
Same with jet fuel and martinis. It’s a write off on money that was EARNED. An entitlement program is giving people free shit (food, money, housing, medical) that they have NOT earned. I work 80 fucking hours a week and keep 65 cents on the dollar now that I stopped paying SS for the year. I PAY MY DUES. I don’t get handouts. It’s MY money that they are giving away.
For the record, I’m all for a flat tax/sales tax that EVERYONE pays the same. But me getting money I EARNED back, legally through existing tax code is not an entitlement. I never got a handout from anyone and I’ve never claimed unemployment.[/quote]
Dude, I’m over this line of discussion. It’s all about the United States of Mind now. Are you in or out? And what do you think should be some of the States of Mind? I’m thinking something along the lines Anti-War State of Mind, Pro and Anti-Big Business States of Mind, Climate Change State of Mind, Fracking State of Mind, Isolationist Stance State of Mind, America is the World’s Police/Gestapo State of Mind, Fuck All Muslims State of Mind, Fuck All People for the Sake of the Yellow Warbler State of Mind, and the Trayvon Martin Could Have Been Me State of Mind for starters.
edit: How could I have forgotten what will undoubtedly turn into the most populous state: It’s All About Me State of Mind.
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
Medicare, Medicaid and Obama care will surpass SS in 2015 as a % of our federal budget. After that, it will just continue to grow bigger and bigger.
Our tax dollars at work. [/quote]
If you had, say, $35K in taxes to pay, how would you divvy it up? Where would you prefer to see it go?
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
So busy today… will read and respond as I can. [/quote]
Get on that shit. I’m already dreaming up ways to get this message so far out there that it HAS to become part of the national dialogue. Only someone so corrupt that they have to screw their pants on every morning would be against my tax reform plan.
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
Medicare, Medicaid and Obama care will surpass SS in 2015 as a % of our federal budget. After that, it will just continue to grow bigger and bigger.
Our tax dollars at work. [/quote]
Every emancipated individual is either going to be in prison, on benefit, or gainfully employed. As soon as todays business, finance, and political leaders figure out how to create jobs like the leaders of past generations did; these problems will disappear. If they don’t, it won’t be the people at the bottom that failed us.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
A constantly evolving definition gives you excuses when your initial predictions are wrong. This is not just about studying climate behavior, but making policy on something we still don’t understand.
In 2007, Al Gore claimed the polar ice would be completely gone as early as 2013, yet we just had one of the harshest winters on record.[/quote]
Like I said, you seem to be against the politicization of climate change, not climate change in of itself.
I am against the politicization of climate change too.
But it astounds me when people start saying crap like “climate change isn’t happening!”.
It is happening. The obvious question is whether we are responsible, or even influencing it in a meaningful manner, but there is no doubt that it is happening.
And it is something that we need to prepare for. Europe had a mini ice-age back in the 1300-1400s(I think). It coincided with the Black Death and very well may have been what made the Black Death so horrible. That century literally changed world history.
A thousand years ago or so the Middle East was said to be incredibly fertile. Now it’s a freaking desert.
Sure, it may be pointless to try to deal with issues centuries into the future, but I do think it’s worth looking into them.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Your example of the study of cancer and how we reacted to our “science” of it proves just how wrong we could be.
Fat was bad, carbs were good, aerobics were healthy, fruit was a simple sugar, margarine was better for you than butter, lifting weights made you look like a bodybuilder ready for the Olympia, chocolate was evil, you could turn fat into muscle. The list is endless.
Following that ^ list made our nation’s waistline look like the equator.
Government has a track record for being wrong, whether by ignorance or corruption, you should always question what someone who is being bribed is saying.
[/quote]
Would you instead prefer that government doesn’t do anything at all?
This isn’t meant to be a cynical post or anything, btw. I’m curious in what you say. Honestly, I do think the government doesn’t have to play a role in the food pyramid and such.
I think many expect the government to be involved in far too many things these days. I don’t know why the national health should be something the government should care about outside of military service. But one would believe that anyone interested in military service would try to get themselves into shape before hand.
Though I do suppose we’d be fucked in the event of an invasion though. 1/3 of the country is obese. I honestly have nightmares of what I’d do with my parents if some disaster happens. That’s pretty much the only reason why I plan on forcing my future children to be athletic.
You want to be able to run so that tsunami doesn’t catch up to you in 5 seconds instead of 10.
We are not looking into them, we are making policy. That is my point. We are making laws and standards based on something not yet proven or even deemed explainable. The climate changes naturally, we have had 5 major ice ages long before we showed up with our Escalades and Hummers. The Earth has seen more carbon than todayI would rather we call this Climate Study, and monitor these phenomena as they happen. But to sit here and make such a ridiculous claim like Gore did, well you should be deported for saying something so fucking stupid.
Look at this shit I found just today…
Carbon dioxide acts as a coolant in Earth?s atmosphere, says new NASA report.
?NASA?s Langley Research Center has collated data proving that ?greenhouse gases? actually block up to 95 percent of harmful solar rays from reaching our planet, thus reducing the heating impact of the sun,? says to this article on principia-scientific.org.
The data was collected by Sounding of the Atmosphere using Broadband Emission Radiometry, (or SABER). SABER monitors infrared emissions from Earth?s upper atmosphere, in particular from carbon dioxide (CO2) and nitric oxide (NO), two substances thought to be playing a key role in the energy balance of air above our planet?s surface.?
?Carbon dioxide and nitric oxide are natural thermostats,? explains James Russell of Hampton University, SABER?s principal investigator. ?When the upper atmosphere (or ?thermosphere?) heats up, these molecules try as hard as they can to shed that heat back into space.?
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
Medicare, Medicaid and Obama care will surpass SS in 2015 as a % of our federal budget. After that, it will just continue to grow bigger and bigger.
Our tax dollars at work. [/quote]
If you had, say, $35K in taxes to pay, how would you divvy it up? Where would you prefer to see it go? [/quote]
I would put $13 to SS (I think we need to increase the % we spend on it), I would give $10 in Medicare, $9 to Medicaid ( which I would include Obamacare with), and I would devote $3 to combat fraud, waste and abuse on the 3 entitlements.
That link is utter garbage. I’m surprised they did blame bush and call 9/11 an inside job lol.
It’s like “truth-out” is supposed to be ironic or something…
“pro-corporate” economics… What a fucking moronic “meme”. [/quote]
Well, how could anyone argue with such a detailed analysis and rebuttal of the article details I posted.
Golly, Beans…you triumph once again with your sound reasonable debate.
[/quote]
lmao… Dude you say this like I dont’ consistently make thoughtful posts and honestly evaluate not only my own positions and those of others.
Fact of the matter is, this drive by bullshit you posted is so belligerently biased it doesn’t even deserve the attention of the 4 line post it got. Look you’re a smart dude, but don’t act like your “false” and “god is dead” drivel doesn’t pop up once in awhile.
The picture and “article” you linked don’t deserve the attention of any thoughtful individual, which includes yourself. So don’t expect anyone here to take it serious either. I’m actually surprised that wasn’t an Onion spinoff. [/quote]
Sorry Beans, but that’s pretty weak. If the article I linked to was that terrible, it should be easy for you to tear it apart. So,…we’re all waiting.