Brat & The Dead Tea Party

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
No. But China gives tax breaks to one child families - or more correctly higher taxes to families that have more than one child.
[/quote]

You left out–at least until very recently–internship in forced labor camps and forced sterilization to those who violated the one-child rule. [/quote]

I left it out because it’s not relevant to the point I was making. What I advocated - tax breaks for having more children - is not an inhumane policy. And it wouldn’t create more welfare babies because welfare mothers don’t pay taxes.

62

[quote]Sloth wrote:

The welfare state is a guarantee of true individualistic ‘freedom’ and ‘liberation.’ Without, people would be more fearful to express their freedom/individualism.

[/quote]

  1. The welfare state is a guarantee of servitude – one from the people from whom money stolen and two from the people who suck on the taxpayer teat.

  2. Who cares if “people would be more fearful to express their freedom/individualism”? If their life choices are such they can feed themselves, then they need to make a different choice. There is no protection from stupid choices in the Constitution. You are free to do stupid things, but must suffer the consequences.

63

The more government is involved in ur life, the more they control you. Dependency creates a need for government.

64

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

  1. Who cares if “people would be more fearful to express their freedom/individualism”? [/quote]

The people voting against tearing down the welfare state. Basically, America at large. Not even rank-and-file Tea Partiers want their Social Security touched, for example. I’d bet we could get a public dress code in place before we’d ever make a real start at unraveling the welfare/entitlement state.

65

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]bigflamer wrote:
http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/24300-the-dark-money-machine-that-beat-eric-cantor[/quote]

lmao…

That link is utter garbage. I’m surprised they did blame bush and call 9/11 an inside job lol.

It’s like “truth-out” is supposed to be ironic or something…

“pro-corporate” economics… What a fucking moronic “meme”. [/quote]

Well, how could anyone argue with such a detailed analysis and rebuttal of the article details I posted.

Golly, Beans…you triumph once again with your sound reasonable debate.

66

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

The welfare state is a guarantee of true individualistic ‘freedom’ and ‘liberation.’ Without, people would be more fearful to express their freedom/individualism.

[/quote]

  1. The welfare state is a guarantee of servitude – one from the people from whom money stolen and two from the people who suck on the taxpayer teat.

  2. Who cares if “people would be more fearful to express their freedom/individualism”? If their life choices are such they can feed themselves, then they need to make a different choice. There is no protection from stupid choices in the Constitution. You are free to do stupid things, but must suffer the consequences.[/quote]

I find it beyond ironic for YOU of all people to start railing against welfare states. The entire state of Israel is essentially a welfare state. Is Israel capable of defending itself entirely on its own? Does it receive zero foreign aid? Of course not. When you’re on here demanding that the U.S. stop shelling out about $1.5 billion a year to Israel, then your comments about welfare states might have some credibility. As of now, you may as well just get right down to the REAL gist of the issue, which is that the wrong welfare is being handed out, not that welfare in general is bad. I’ve never heard you criticize the welfare that Israel receives, only the types of welfare that you don’t receive.

67

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

  1. Who cares if “people would be more fearful to express their freedom/individualism”? [/quote]

The people voting against tearing down the welfare state. Basically, America at large. Not even rank-and-file Tea Partiers want their Social Security touched, for example. I’d bet we could get a public dress code in place before we’d ever make a real start at unraveling the welfare/entitlement state.

[/quote]

My old Congressman (Doug LaMalfa, CA-R) summed up this issue perfectly. During part of his first campaign he had given a few speeches where he decried the state of welfare/entitlement programs and how they were bankrupting the country. He intended to address this issue if elected to Congress.

I was at a talk he was giving when a member of the local media pointed out that he was the recipient of more than $5 million in federal welfare, since his rice farm was heavily subsidized. His response was classic.

He said that it would be foolhardy for him to voluntarily give up the subsidies he received since to do so would essentially spell the end of his farm, which had been in his family for three generations. He said he would never voluntarily do something that wasn’t in his best interest.

The amazing thing was that he was back at it the next day, ranting and raving about entitlement programs. Clearly, he has no problem with entitlement programs if they benefit HIM.

And therein lies the rub. NO ONE is against entitlement programs that benefit them. Self-preservation and self-interest are FAR more powerful forces than any ideological slant that someone may have. Every single conservative will embrace welfare if it ends up in their hands. The same could be said about pretty much everyone on the planet.

68

How many people who are against entitlement programs refuse to write off the interest paid on their mortgage every year?

How many people who are against entitlement programs but who also receive a tax refund never, ever cash that check?

How many people who are against entitlement programs have never written ANYTHING off on their tax returns?

69

Well not really no. I’m entitled to a disability pension right now due to injuries I sustained a few months ago. However I haven’t claimed it. I’m living on my savings while I recover. Sorry to burst your bubble but some people actually do live by their own standards.

70

.

71

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

Well not really no. I’m entitled to a disability pension right now due to injuries I sustained a few months ago. However I haven’t claimed it. I’m living on my savings while I recover. Sorry to burst your bubble but some people actually do live by their own standards.[/quote]

Get back to me when your savings are used up before you recover.

You’re right, people live by their own standards. And that standard is self-preservation, first and foremost. If it suits your interests, you’ll be running down to the bank to deposit that disability check.

72

Shit, someone might even be able to make the case that the Constitution itself is an entitlement program. I’m entitled to free speech, life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, the right to defend myself with guns, blah, blah, blah. I’m entitled to all of that simply by virtue of being born.

73

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

Well not really no. I’m entitled to a disability pension right now due to injuries I sustained a few months ago. However I haven’t claimed it. I’m living on my savings while I recover. Sorry to burst your bubble but some people actually do live by their own standards.[/quote]

Get back to me when your savings are used up before you recover.

You’re right, people live by their own standards. And that standard is self-preservation, first and foremost. If it suits your interests, you’ll be running down to the bank to deposit that disability check.[/quote]

But you see, I made sensible plans so that I will not be in a position where I have to rely upon others. Sure something could happen where I may find myself in need but I’ve done everything within my power to avoid that eventuality. That’s all anyone can do.

74

[quote]bigflamer wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]bigflamer wrote:
http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/24300-the-dark-money-machine-that-beat-eric-cantor[/quote]

lmao…

That link is utter garbage. I’m surprised they did blame bush and call 9/11 an inside job lol.

It’s like “truth-out” is supposed to be ironic or something…

“pro-corporate” economics… What a fucking moronic “meme”. [/quote]

Well, how could anyone argue with such a detailed analysis and rebuttal of the article details I posted.

Golly, Beans…you triumph once again with your sound reasonable debate.
[/quote]

lmao… Dude you say this like I dont’ consistently make thoughtful posts and honestly evaluate not only my own positions and those of others.

Fact of the matter is, this drive by bullshit you posted is so belligerently biased it doesn’t even deserve the attention of the 4 line post it got. Look you’re a smart dude, but don’t act like your “false” and “god is dead” drivel doesn’t pop up once in awhile.

The picture and “article” you linked don’t deserve the attention of any thoughtful individual, which includes yourself. So don’t expect anyone here to take it serious either. I’m actually surprised that wasn’t an Onion spinoff.

75

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
How many people who are against entitlement programs refuse to write off the interest paid on their mortgage every year?

How many people who are against entitlement programs but who also receive a tax refund never, ever cash that check?

How many people who are against entitlement programs have never written ANYTHING off on their tax returns?[/quote]

How is writing off interest, claiming deductions in a fucked up tax code that WE didn’t write and cashing a check on excess taxes taken from money I’VE EARNED equivalent to an entitlement program?

I EARNED my money. The government TAKES my money - if I don’t give it to them, they will garnish my wages/throw me in jail. They offer loopholes to get some of it back. That’s not an entitlement, that’s getting back what’s MINE… Something I EARNED. It’s not a hand out.

76

“pro-corporate economics” lmao…

Who comes up with this moronic shit?

77

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
How many people who are against entitlement programs but who also receive a tax refund never, ever cash that check?

[/quote]

How on Earth is getting back the excess money you paid in, that you don’t owe in tax, an entitlement?

OUtside of the smaller percentage of poorer people who get refundable credits over and above what they paid in, refunds are just the extra money you paid into the state throughout the year in excess of what you owed the state for working.

That isn’t an entitlement.

78

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
How many people who are against entitlement programs refuse to write off the interest paid on their mortgage every year?

How many people who are against entitlement programs but who also receive a tax refund never, ever cash that check?

How many people who are against entitlement programs have never written ANYTHING off on their tax returns?[/quote]

How is writing off interest, claiming deductions in a fucked up tax code that WE didn’t write and cashing a check on excess taxes taken from money I’VE EARNED equivalent to an entitlement program?

I EARNED my money. The government TAKES my money - if I don’t give it to them, they will garnish my wages/throw me in jail. They offer loopholes to get some of it back. That’s not an entitlement, that’s getting back what’s MINE… Something I EARNED. It’s not a hand out.[/quote]

Not all tax writeoffs are “earned”. Are you entitled to a tax writeoff on the interest on your mortgage? Why? Why should the other taxpayers subsidize your ownership of your house? And who cares how fucked up the tax code is? That is irrelevant to my point. The fact is that you DO take advantage of that part of the tax code because it benefits you. People who cash in on entitlement programs aren’t doing anything any differently than you. They’re taking advantage of the system to their benefit. That’s pretty much how everyone operates. We operate primarily with self-interest in mind. Ideology is secondary to that, but we spend an inordinate amount of time trying to create a different illusion, one that places our ideology in front of everything else. As if we’re all a bunch of fucking altruists, when we are definitely not.

And I’m not talking about getting back some of your taxes in the form of writeoffs. I’m talking about things like writing off your corporate lunch where everyone had three martinis. Yeah, I used to go to those sorts of lunches when I was an estimator for a large, commercial HVAC company. We used to write off EVERYTHING, especially when I was fucking the owner’s daughter. That is an entitlement program. There are all sorts of examples like that.

What about all the conservative farmers in the Sacramento Valley who are essentially on agricultural welfare? Oh, but wait, that’s DIFFERENT.

What about corporations writing off things like private jet fuel as a business expense? That, too, is an entitlement program. I could go on and on. Entitlement programs are everywhere, but it seems to me that the only ones people don’t like are the ones that they don’t directly benefit from.

79

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
How many people who are against entitlement programs but who also receive a tax refund never, ever cash that check?

[/quote]

How on Earth is getting back the excess money you paid in, that you don’t owe in tax, an entitlement?

OUtside of the smaller percentage of poorer people who get refundable credits over and above what they paid in, refunds are just the extra money you paid into the state throughout the year in excess of what you owed the state for working.

That isn’t an entitlement. [/quote]

Well, to be fair, I am talking about that small percentage who get credits over and above what they paid in. I think the Earned Income Tax Credit is a part of that.

Like I told AC, I’m not talking about people who are getting back what they paid in. Things like SS, which I am definitely fucking entitled to since it’s my earned money in there, or the unemployment insurance that you paid into or whatever, that’s all fine. We SHOULD get that kind of shit back.

But that doesn’t scratch the surface regarding the kinds of things that can and are written off all the time by people who flip out at the very notion of entitlement programs. Why should my father’s former business partner get to write off a 7-series BMW as a business expense? Is he entitled to that? Is he entitled to a $80K car that the rest of the taxpayers are basically buying for him?

80

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
“pro-corporate economics” lmao…

Who comes up with this moronic shit?[/quote]

Ha! I was thinking the same thing. Is there any other kind of sound economics?