How much vinpocetine can you safely take in a day? I was thinking of going from 3 x 20 mg to 3 x 30 mg. Would that be good or bad? How much is too much. There isn’t much info on the web on it.
I’d base that on how you respond Grimlorn.
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
I’d base that on how you respond Grimlorn.[/quote]
Yeah I just want to be careful. I could swear I read somewhere you shouldn’t take more than 60mg a day (can’t find it now) so I wanted to make sure. Even if I respond well to it, possibly there could be negative side effects I’m unaware of.
[quote]Grimlorn wrote:
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
I’d base that on how you respond Grimlorn.[/quote]
Yeah I just want to be careful. I could swear I read somewhere you shouldn’t take more than 60mg a day (can’t find it now) so I wanted to make sure. Even if I respond well to it, possibly there could be negative side effects I’m unaware of.[/quote]
I take 40mg ED.
[quote]Grimlorn wrote:
Yeah I just want to be careful. I could swear I read somewhere you shouldn’t take more than 60mg a day (can’t find it now) so I wanted to make sure. Even if I respond well to it, possibly there could be negative side effects I’m unaware of.[/quote]
I’m not so sure more is better, but try it and see what happens. I go up to 60 mg a day when peaking for an exam, but only for 2 days and I always pay for it with a headache afterwards.
Are you taking it with food? What kind of effect do you get from it?
[quote]kakno wrote:
[quote]Grimlorn wrote:
Yeah I just want to be careful. I could swear I read somewhere you shouldn’t take more than 60mg a day (can’t find it now) so I wanted to make sure. Even if I respond well to it, possibly there could be negative side effects I’m unaware of.[/quote]
I’m not so sure more is better, but try it and see what happens. I go up to 60 mg a day when peaking for an exam, but only for 2 days and I always pay for it with a headache afterwards.
Are you taking it with food? What kind of effect do you get from it?
[/quote]
I really don’t know. I was doing 30 mg and went up to 60 mg but didn’t notice much of a difference. I was just looking for a way to boost my memory a bit. Since Vinpo says it boosts memory on the bottle I thought I’d up it. I’m already taking about 3 x 700 mg of Aniracetam and I just upped the dmae to 3 x 1.5 grams a few days ago.
I haven’t gotten any headaches from taking these nootrops. But I haven’t been doing it that long, only a couple months. I did get some sort of pain/pressure in my chest around the solar plexus when taking the Centro. But it only lasted like 30 to 45 minutes.
I am taking it after meals. I know you guys said to take it with fat. So I make sure to have almonds, milk, peanut butter or meat before taking it.
A stack that has worked well for me in 2011:
AM: Alpha-GPC (900 mg) + piracetam (800 mg) + rhodiola (1 cap) + bacopa (250 mg leaf extract) on empty stomach
noon: aniracetam (750 mg) + vinpocetine (10 mg) during a higher fat meal (lunch)
PM (bedtime): PS (100 mg)
For 2012, at least for the 1st part of this year, I’m thinking of changing things up a bit. I am very interested in Mind Nutrition products, especially the Neurostim and their bacopa. I am also a big believer in Power Drive over the holidays, so my proposed stack now is:
AM: Power Drive (1 serving) + piracetam (800 mg) + rhodiola (1 cap) + bacopa
noon: Neurostim (1 cap) with fatty meal
PM (prior to bed): PS from Mind Nutrition + alpha-GPC (450 - 900 mg)
My only concern is taking the Alpha-GPC in the evening…for me I’m not sure if I would be taking too much choline for my system…the only way to know is try. I’m also very much looking forward to what Biotest has to offer with respect to their “mind supplement”. Once that comes out, I will be altering this proposed stack a bit based upon what that new product might be.
I find I don’t need to take high dosages of these products to hit that sweet spot of clear focus, lowered anxiety, mental clarity, and verbal communication increase. Any suggestions on tweaking my propose stack though?
Grimlorn, regarding nootropics, more isn’t necessarily better as they can act synergistically with one another, and the dose-response curve is a bell curve.
Simply taking more may be putting you further from the optimal synergistic dosing that your body requires. Or I may be wrong, but something to consider nonetheless.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
[quote]buffd_samurai wrote:
A stack that has worked well for me in 2011:
AM: Alpha-GPC (900 mg) + piracetam (800 mg) + rhodiola (1 cap) + bacopa (250 mg leaf extract) on empty stomach
noon: aniracetam (750 mg) + vinpocetine (10 mg) during a higher fat meal (lunch)
PM (bedtime): PS (100 mg)
[/quote]
Nice stack there my man!
Though I would question just how effective 100mg of PS would be. I like 500mg - 2000mg + 5g glycine.
BBB[/quote]
Thanks…I was actually wondering if I needed to add some choline source for the noontime dose with the ani, but alas I found the morning Alpha GPC carried over still well. I found no racetam headaches due to lack of choline. I was thinking about DMAE at that time, but my proposed stack for 2012 (beginning tommorrow) will use DMAE with aniracetam and vinpo until I can get the nuerostim.
With regards to nuerostim, I’m at odds still as to whether or not the noontime intake should be one or two caps. Note my blurb above about not really needing higher dosages for the “sweet spot”, but as always I probably just need to experiment.
I will try your recommendation of upping the PS amount and will look into glycine. The more I read about PS, I think you’re 100% right.
I have to say, I have used nootropics casually in the past as well as other “well being” substances like HOT-ROX Extreme, Spike, etc…but this last year on a true nootropic stack was amazing for me. I am thoroughly convinced that nootropics make a massive difference in mental prowess, focus, and endurance. ESPECIALLY when under alot of mental stress.
I was especially wary of aniracetam, as this used to turn me into a serious grouch…but it doesn’t do that for me anymore. I also had to tweak the stack last year several times to determine which compounds acted synergistically for me. Of all the ingredients in this stack, I personally think the bacopa (which YOU, Mr. BBB, actually turned me onto) is the MAIN nootropic for me personally. That stuff is AMAZING. Looking forward to trying the Mind Nutrition version. They also have Picamilon that I had never heard of that appears to be something I can cycle with Bacopa (i.e. when off Bacopa, use Picamilon) to get similar results.
[quote]buffd_samurai wrote:
A stack that has worked well for me in 2011:
AM: Alpha-GPC (900 mg) + piracetam (800 mg) + rhodiola (1 cap) + bacopa (250 mg leaf extract) on empty stomach
noon: aniracetam (750 mg) + vinpocetine (10 mg) during a higher fat meal (lunch)
PM (bedtime): PS (100 mg)
For 2012, at least for the 1st part of this year, I’m thinking of changing things up a bit. I am very interested in Mind Nutrition products, especially the Neurostim and their bacopa. I am also a big believer in Power Drive over the holidays, so my proposed stack now is:
AM: Power Drive (1 serving) + piracetam (800 mg) + rhodiola (1 cap) + bacopa
noon: Neurostim (1 cap) with fatty meal
PM (prior to bed): PS from Mind Nutrition + alpha-GPC (450 - 900 mg)
My only concern is taking the Alpha-GPC in the evening…for me I’m not sure if I would be taking too much choline for my system…the only way to know is try. I’m also very much looking forward to what Biotest has to offer with respect to their “mind supplement”. Once that comes out, I will be altering this proposed stack a bit based upon what that new product might be.
I find I don’t need to take high dosages of these products to hit that sweet spot of clear focus, lowered anxiety, mental clarity, and verbal communication increase. Any suggestions on tweaking my propose stack though?[/quote]
This looks VERY interesting.
Would you mind elaborating shortly on how you constructed this stack (i.e. why these specific compounds at those times, any potential synergy between them, the specific purpose of this stack, etc.).
I’d really appreciate it and I’m sure lots of other people would be interested in a “behind the scenes” look.
B.
[quote]BiP wrote:
[quote]buffd_samurai wrote:
A stack that has worked well for me in 2011:
AM: Alpha-GPC (900 mg) + piracetam (800 mg) + rhodiola (1 cap) + bacopa (250 mg leaf extract) on empty stomach
noon: aniracetam (750 mg) + vinpocetine (10 mg) during a higher fat meal (lunch)
PM (bedtime): PS (100 mg)
For 2012, at least for the 1st part of this year, I’m thinking of changing things up a bit. I am very interested in Mind Nutrition products, especially the Neurostim and their bacopa. I am also a big believer in Power Drive over the holidays, so my proposed stack now is:
AM: Power Drive (1 serving) + piracetam (800 mg) + rhodiola (1 cap) + bacopa
noon: Neurostim (1 cap) with fatty meal
PM (prior to bed): PS from Mind Nutrition + alpha-GPC (450 - 900 mg)
My only concern is taking the Alpha-GPC in the evening…for me I’m not sure if I would be taking too much choline for my system…the only way to know is try. I’m also very much looking forward to what Biotest has to offer with respect to their “mind supplement”. Once that comes out, I will be altering this proposed stack a bit based upon what that new product might be.
I find I don’t need to take high dosages of these products to hit that sweet spot of clear focus, lowered anxiety, mental clarity, and verbal communication increase. Any suggestions on tweaking my propose stack though?[/quote]
This looks VERY interesting.
Would you mind elaborating shortly on how you constructed this stack (i.e. why these specific compounds at those times, any potential synergy between them, the specific purpose of this stack, etc.).
I’d really appreciate it and I’m sure lots of other people would be interested in a “behind the scenes” look.
B.
[/quote]
BiP sir, I would love to.
Let’s look at the 2011 stack and why I ended up with the formulation shown:
-
Alpha-GPC…1 capful (liquid) = 900 mg. When taking the racetams (piracetam, aniracetam, etc), it is important (so I understand) to take a choline source. From what I understand, the racetams work synergistically with choline. I believe many have also found that if racetams are taken without a choline source, one can “crash”, meaning headaches, brain fogginess, low energy, etc. I can attest that adding a choline source, be it DMAE, choline, alpha-GPC, etc to racetam use definitely is synergistic.
A caustion though…too much choline can give the same type of side effect for some people…i.e. headaches, muscle tightening (especially in neck), etc. Again, as with anything, I think the key is BALANCE, and finding the right balance for the individual.
In my opinion, I think alpha-GPC is the platinum of choline sources, so this is why it was included. -
Piracetam…the original “nootropic” and one that has fallen out of favor as many nootropic warriors out there are using the other racetams which for them are more effective at a smaller dosage. In particular, many like aniracetam as the same effects noticed with piracetam or better can be achieved at much smaller dosages.
Piracetam is included in this stack because I found early on that aniracetam had a negative impact on me…it made me really mean. I think I wrote about it on the forums, but I became someone like a mean drunk. I have NO idea why. So, I take piracetam instead as it works wonderfully for me.
Piracetam really “unlocks” my brain (that’s what is feels like actually) making conversation much more fluid…access to words, expressions, and concepts in my memory is easily converted to clear communication. It is truly remarkable stuff for me. I only need 800 mg a day…I take it 1st thing in the morning as I feel piracetam works best on an empty stomach. -
Rhodiola…Rhodiola is one of those substances that augments alpha-GPC + piracetam for me. More piracetam or more alpha-GPC does not equate to better in my case. But adding Rhodiola (and the next substance) augments the alpha-GPC + piracetam. I discovered this by accident actually, I had accidently dropped a Rhodiola capsule in my stack for the day and I was wondering why I was feel so damn good. Well, it stood in my 2011 stack and will continue to be in 2012 as well. Wanted to take this on empty stomach, so upon arising with the other elements of the morning stack.
-
Bacopa…this is simply the best stuff. It really augments the above 3 for me, emphasizing the more euphoric and anti-anxiety functions that piracetam can also give. Taken all by itself, Bacopa has been wonderful for me, but with the addition of the above it is all augmented. I like this on an empty stomach as well.
During the holidays, I took a ocmplete break from all training and all nootropics. But, I felt I wanted something to re-energize my nervous system so this is where Power Drive came in. All I took was Power Drive which is really nothing more than tyrosine + choline. Well, I really think the tyrosine helped me during my recuperative period, and felt like it would be an interesting addition to my 2011 stack minus the alpha-GPC (don’t want too much choline…need to stay within the sweet spot). So, I’m replacing the alpha-GPC with Power Drive which is mostly just adding tyrosine into the equation…just to see how it all works out. The alpha-GPC might be moved to evening times before bed to try out the purported GH release effect or more restful sleep effect I’ve read about. Only issue again, is watching how much choline I can tolerate.
For 2011, the afternoon stack was arrived at because I felt the piracetam sort of losing its effect about about 4 hours or so. Now, I could have simply took another 800 mg of piracetam…but my stomach is simply NOT empty at the time. Aniracetam is best taken with a meal, preferably a fatty meal…so is vinpocetine. Thus that is how these two elements made its way into my afternoon regimen. Now, I was very nervous about introducing aniracetam back in…but so far, no problems. No problems the entire year.
For 2012, I’m thinking of taking Neurostim instead, as it is already a combo of aniracetam, DMAE, and vinpocetine. The amount of aniracetam is less than what I am used to, but it might be enough. The DMAE I am a little concerned about (again due to possibility of too much choline, but again, I don’t really know my choline threshold yet). Why not just take 1 or 2 capsules instead of a capful of the other ingredients? This is why neurostim is in the plan.
In the evenings I take a small amount of PS. Why so small, I don’t know…like I mentioned in the above entry I’m going to bump it up. PS is taken to help with cortisol control a bit at night to help me sleep. But it is a nootropic for some people in high enough doses. I like it in my stack, but can’t really notice the difference (again, most likely because the dosage is too low).
2011 was a very stressful but productive business year for me. Really…I don’t think I could have handled the stress without my nootropic stack. I strongly believe I could have reached mental burnout in many situations but simply didn’t. I am now a very strong believer in the “assistance” nootropics can give one.
One final thing in this long long post: this stack is something that I arrived at via some careful experimenting. I started with only one item at a time…one item for 2 months…then added in the other elements slowly. I’m not done yet. I need to experiment with dosages to determine the ranges of my sweet spot.
Great post samurai
@ Buffd
good info and thanks for that… 2 questions though if you dont mind:
-
what is a typical meal you have with the ani, DMAE and vinpo? i have neurotism on the way but usually follow an IF schedule so just wondering how much others are eating
-
how much bacopa?
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
Grimlorn, regarding nootropics, more isn’t necessarily better as they can act synergistically with one another, and the dose-response curve is a bell curve.
Simply taking more may be putting you further from the optimal synergistic dosing that your body requires. Or I may be wrong, but something to consider nonetheless.[/quote]
That’s got me thinking.
BBB can you tell us how you developed Neurostim and how you chose the formula of 420mg ani, 300mg DMAE, and 15mg Vinpo?
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
@ Buffd
good info and thanks for that… 2 questions though if you dont mind:
-
what is a typical meal you have with the ani, DMAE and vinpo? i have neurotism on the way but usually follow an IF schedule so just wondering how much others are eating
-
how much bacopa?[/quote]
My “fatty” meal that I take aniracetam and vinpo is always greater than 8 grams of fat, but I don’t really know what amount of “fat” or even what type is supposed to be optimal with these compounds. I’ve read where one should strive for “healthy fat” (which I try to do), but most of the time the fat is saturated. Don’t know if it matters that much…this is where the experts on this thread could chime in.
I’m only taking 250 mg of bacopa leaf extract which has (supposedly) 125 mg of 50% bacosides A & B. I believe increasing the amount is in order (again, to determine my sweet spot threshold), but for now, this suffices.
I take my noops with 4-5 fish oil caps. I just think that n-3’s would be the best choice.
thanks buffd and matty
n-3’s?
Omega-3
http://www.functionalfoodinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/omegas.png
Location of the first double bond.