Hello,
I’ve read that natural bb’ers should train each body part once a week because they need more recovery time then their enhanced counterparts.
-but- then I’ve also read that natural bb’ers respond better to higher frequency (Twice a Week) over once a week.
These 2 points seem to completely contradict each other. I just wanted to get some thoughts and more importantly experiences. DEFINITELY not looking to start up another debate about TBT vs Splits or anything like that. I have used both in the past, except I started the other way around compared to most. I started by training each body part once a week and shifted to a 2x a week…
Both approaches can work depending on your recovery processes (diet, sleep etc), and your individual physiology. Not everything is simply ‘this’ OR ‘that’. Sometimes you can benefit more from more frequent, albeit shorter sessions, and sometimes you can benefit from longer, more infrequent sessions.
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Both approaches can work depending on your recovery processes (diet, sleep etc), and your individual physiology. Not everything is simply ‘this’ OR ‘that’. Sometimes you can benefit more from more frequent, albeit shorter sessions, and sometimes you can benefit from longer, more infrequent sessions.
S
[/quote]
What does this topic have to do with being “natural” or “assisted”? No matter what you are, you need to train according to your own body’s genetics and the results seen.
I know you aren’t saying otherwise, Stu, but the thread title itself seemed odd as if people are really thinking that they need to train in some different manner simply because they have accepted through hear-say that they recover slower.
X, why is it that you did one part a week?
Was it because thats how everybody around you trained or because you felt you that you needed a full session per bodypart because you couldnt hit that part effectively enough when doing two or more per day (with chest/tris being the exception).
I know you eat like a horse so would be thinking im right. Ive been making good progress on a twice a week program but it has slowed. Im thinking of splitting it into a 5 day body part split. Suggestions as to how to split it?
you should split it to according what you are capapble of…
ronnie coleman does train each bodypart twice a week but he trains shoulders only once a week on wednesday and rotates the other 3 days over a 6 day period…he trains lower back(bb row, t bar, db rows) on a different day than his upper back(pulldowns, cable row)…Then there are times where ronnie has trained upper/lower back in the same day…He does that because that is what works for him…not because he read it in a book…
branch warren splits his training up different than ron…he trains everything once a week it seems but does more exercises and overall volume than ronnie does per bodypart…he also splits th body parts up more
they both probably are acheiving similar results but have found different ways that both work to get to a high level of development…
the natural vs assisted shit is irrelevant…just use your mind and stop going through the motions…
people doing the cookie cutter programs will never achieve their potential because the program is not tailored to their individual situation…
i just added an arm day because i couldnt train my arms hard enough after other body parts and they need to be brought up…so the only logical decision was to train arms by themselves…
this bodybuilding thing is really trial and error…there is nobody on this site that can give you all the answers…and when you realize that you will be closer to your goals…
[quote]Bingbeast wrote:
Hello,
I’ve read that natural bb’ers should train each body part once a week because they need more recovery time then their enhanced counterparts.
-but- then I’ve also read that natural bb’ers respond better to higher frequency (Twice a Week) over once a week.
These 2 points seem to completely contradict each other. I just wanted to get some thoughts and more importantly experiences. DEFINITELY not looking to start up another debate about TBT vs Splits or anything like that. I have used both in the past, except I started the other way around compared to most. I started by training each body part once a week and shifted to a 2x a week…[/quote]
From what i’ve noticed, it doesn’t make a difference.
[quote]pro-a-ggression wrote:
X, why is it that you did one part a week?
Was it because thats how everybody around you trained or because you felt you that you needed a full session per bodypart because you couldnt hit that part effectively enough when doing two or more per day (with chest/tris being the exception).
I know you eat like a horse so would be thinking im right. Ive been making good progress on a twice a week program but it has slowed. Im thinking of splitting it into a 5 day body part split. Suggestions as to how to split it?[/quote]
I did one body part a week because I could not give more body parts than that the attention they needed due to the weight used and the need for recovery. This has all been covered before in detail.
I do not just train each body part once a week. Usually whatever body part I am focusing on bringing up gets worked twice putting me in the gym 6 days a week.
My schedule has much to do with this as well as I don’t have the time to be in the gym more than maybe an hour at a time.
I agree with you PX, in fact I was just answering a question the other day to the same effect. A lot of newer/younger trainers use the “I’m a natty” as a prefaced excuse in a lot of cases. In this case, it may (‘MAY’, I’m not attacking or getting offensive here) be an excuse to not do a lot of work. Sadly this keep many newbs from making the initial progress they could be capable of.
from what i’ve understood, assisted lifters can recover bette from higher volume. The point of diminishing returns is not the same. Not a game changing difference but a difference non-the less.
im sorry, i didn’t explain what i was asking for clearly, i’m just looking to hear from other guys who have tried both and to her their experiences. I know there is no cookie cutter answer (that would be boring)
[quote]Bingbeast wrote:
from what i’ve understood, assisted lifters can recover bette from higher volume. The point of diminishing returns is not the same. Not a game changing difference but a difference non-the less.
[/quote]
…and once again you are jumping to one very FALSE conclusion because there are natural bodybuilders who recover very fast and there are steroid users who do not recover very fast at all. Your genetics for being a massively muscular human being need to be there and that alone makes more of a difference than whether someone did or did not use steroids.
Someone with the genetics to be really big is likely going to recover faster from weight lifting than someone who does not have the genetic ability.
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Both approaches can work depending on your recovery processes (diet, sleep etc), and your individual physiology. Not everything is simply ‘this’ OR ‘that’. Sometimes you can benefit more from more frequent, albeit shorter sessions, and sometimes you can benefit from longer, more infrequent sessions.
S
[/quote]
What does this topic have to do with being “natural” or “assisted”? No matter what you are, you need to train according to your own body’s genetics and the results seen.
I know you aren’t saying otherwise, Stu, but the thread title itself seemed odd as if people are really thinking that they need to train in some different manner simply because they have accepted through hear-say that they recover slower.[/quote]
Because it matters. It also makes a difference. Don’t get it twisted.
Each individual should treat their own body as if it were a research project. The way research
works in general is the following. After one determines that an answer to a question posed does not exist (which should be the starting point for each lifter since the human body is so complex and each
individual is different) one starts with a hypothesis. In this case the hypothesis would be to maximize
my muscle gains I need to work a body part once a week.I would then work it once per week and see what happens.
However in order to prove or disprove my hypothesis I would also need train it twice a week and then note my progress under these conditions. The same things can be said for diet, cardio, amount of sleep etc.
Before the internet this is what people did instinctively since
they had no choice. Now it appears everybody thinks all lifting questions can be answered on T-Nation
when in fact the human body is so complicated that it really makes little sense to ask a person who
doesn’t have your genetic profile to answer such a question.
pretty sure most of the crap posted recently is advocating higher frequency (you can still use a body part split, but hit everything twice a week)
dunno what its worth, but thats the “latest and greatest”[/quote]
What in the fuck are you talking about? People have trained bodyparts twice weekly for as long as there have been barbells. In the 80’s and 90’s, EVERYBODY at every gym I ever went to did the Heavy/Medium twice weekly split training M-T-Th-F and I hate to say it but there was a ton more muscle on their bodies than what 96% of this board has. And they didn’t even have Finibars.
LMAO at “latest and greatest”. I hope you are a young guy.[/quote]
From what I have gathered, nobody trained any bodypart less than twice a week in the 60’s and 70’s either. And in fact, when I think of the most prominent/successful Mr. Olympias of all time, the three that come to mind right away: Dorian Yates, Ronnie Coleman, and Arnold Schwarzenegger; All trained each bodypart at least twice a week, each champion from a different era/generation.
Kevin Levrone seems to love the higher frequency of a push/pull/legs split, and Branch Warren has stated that his now incredible chest used to be a pathetic weak point for him until he trained his incline, flat, and decline presses all twice a week.
There is a lot to be said for greater frequency of training, and as Professor X pointed out, recovery ability is a completely individual issue. You simply must do as much as you can.
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Both approaches can work depending on your recovery processes (diet, sleep etc), and your individual physiology. Not everything is simply ‘this’ OR ‘that’. Sometimes you can benefit more from more frequent, albeit shorter sessions, and sometimes you can benefit from longer, more infrequent sessions.
S
[/quote]
What does this topic have to do with being “natural” or “assisted”? No matter what you are, you need to train according to your own body’s genetics and the results seen.
I know you aren’t saying otherwise, Stu, but the thread title itself seemed odd as if people are really thinking that they need to train in some different manner simply because they have accepted through hear-say that they recover slower.[/quote]
Because it matters. It also makes a difference. Don’t get it twisted.[/quote]
It matters ON AN INDIVIDUAL LEVEL. It does NOT matter whether Jeff down the street on steroids. That has NO effect on how YOU need to train.
Anyone naive enough to judge their recovery ability by whether they are using steroids or not instead of judging this BASED ON THEIR OWN ACTUAL RECOVERY is not going to get very far in this no matter what.
Once again, you are WRONG if you think that someone simply being on steroids means they now need to train differently than before.
Some of you spend more time worrying about who is on what than finding out how your own bodies respond to training.
Most of you will never even know if you have above average recovery abilities. You have already been brainwashed into thinking your recovery is limited based on whether you use drugs.
YOU are the one coming up short with that mode of thinking.
I think it’s also related how advanced you are. After 3 different exercises for the chest, this body part is totally exhausted for me. I would waste my time training it again with two more exercises.
So I train bicep after chest and train chest again as soon as I can, usually 5-6 days later.
Once I get stronger and begun to move serious weight, I may not be even able too train bis after chest and I may need more time to recover and change my split.
When I begun, anything more than one exercise by body part in the same session was too much for me.
It’s not very complicated to listen to yourself and feel if the exercise is productive while you are doing it.
It’s not very complicated to listen to yourself and feel if the exercise is productive while you are doing it.[/quote]
I don’t think most are capable of this anymore. I mean, these guys would literally rather believe they should base their “expected recovery” on whether they use steroids or not instead of actually finding out their own level of recovery.
I don’t see why people like this are even in the gym, but I guess this is the trend.
[quote]ALX wrote:
I think it’s also related how advanced you are. After 3 different exercises for the chest, this body part is totally exhausted for me. I would waste my time training it again with two more exercises.
So I train bicep after chest and train chest again as soon as I can, usually 5-6 days later.
Once I get stronger and begun to move serious weight, I may not be even able too train bis after chest and I may need more time to recover and change my split.
When I begun, anything more than one exercise by body part in the same session was too much for me.
It’s not very complicated to listen to yourself and feel if the exercise is productive while you are doing it.[/quote]
X2 it’s pointless to follow a set program if you ignore that your body is telling you it’s too much… not enough, whatever the case may be.