How do you know Ronnie’s and Mariusz’s lifts were done to the same specifications? Differences in depth make a huge difference. How tightly you wrap your knees (also what kind of wrap, ace bandage vs. power wraps), using a squat suit, all make differences. What about their respective bodyweights?
No doubt Ronnie is strong, but I don’t think you have enough data to make a direct comparison to Pudzianowski.
You need a bit more ‘science’ in your argument, Superscience.
beef
[quote]superscience wrote:
apwsearch wrote:
Well, superscience, I will state that 90% of “bodybuilders,” are all show and no go.
Most of them spend all their time fancy pantsing around the gym, yelling and screaming while they do their reps, and if and when they get up the balls to talk to you they tell you about the show, “they almost did,” or how they are getting in shape to, “come out of nowhere and fu(k some s#it up.” But they never do it. They are nothing but gym rats with an attitude they never earn.
On the converse, I cannot recall the last time I met someone who called themself a powerlifter or strongman who did not actually compete.
Obviously, the 10% of BB’s that actually compete, or even have a clue in regards to training and are not working on the “Weider Principals” are the exception.
To state that Pudz “only squatted 310 kilos with a belt and wraps” as if that proves anything tells me that you are within the 90th percentile.
Next.
im not a bodybuilder so im not in that 90%. i just started this thread to show that bodybuilders aint weak because even the trainers on here say there weak in their articles sometimes. i used ronnie and marius as an example both top of their sports and ronnie would equal him or pass him in the big three.
[/quote]
Just because Ronnie Coleman is a strong mofo doen’t for a second mean ALL bodybuilders aren’t weak!! Some are some aren’t.
However, as far as all around strength goes, a strong bodybuilder will be stronger than a strong powerlifter. Powerlifters are probably the weakest of all strength athletes. They can no doubt bench, squat and dead the most as that’s the sole thing they train for, but all around strength, through in some strong man, dumbells, OL etc, and Strong men come 1st, strong bodybuilders 2nd, OL lifters 3rd and Powerlifters LAST!!!
[quote]Pound4Pound wrote:
However, as far as all around strength goes, a strong bodybuilder will be stronger than a strong powerlifter. Powerlifters are probably the weakest of all strength athletes. They can no doubt bench, squat and dead the most as that’s the sole thing they train for, but all around strength, through in some strong man, dumbells, OL etc, and Strong men come 1st, strong bodybuilders 2nd, OL lifters 3rd and Powerlifters LAST!!!
[/quote]
This is honestly the stupidest post on this entire thread.
you imply that because PLers only have 3 competitive lifts, that’s all theyre strong in and they therefore lack a well-rounded base of strength. By that logic OLers should be in last since they have only two competitive lifts.
The other hand, how can you watch the force displayed by an OLer accerlerating 600 frigging pounds to his shoulders and not declare them the strongest?
Then again you ignore the fact that PLers arent strong at JUST their competitive lifts. One of my training partners has done a 390# overhead press. Thats frigging strong. Benedickt Magnusson had to hold onto that 970 he pulled a few months ago. thats grip strength.
Of course, if I want to go at it from the other direction, and play devil’s advocate, you could argue that not only are strongman athletes not the strongest, they arent even really strong. Their events focus more on strength-speed and even in some instances speed-strength. The weights they use arent so mind-blowing that you won’t see them at good amateur level shows in the US, the difference is that Marunde can clear fifth stone in 20 seconds, whereas the local competitor, if he has it in him after the first four stones, will take the full 75 seconds. WSM-level guys are stronger, but their absolute strength isn’t tested.
Strong BBers are second strongest? Why cuz they practice truly grueling exercises like flyes and curls? I just cant get my mind around this.
If strongman athletes are so much stronger than PLers, why have zydrunas (lithuanian champ), Kaz (multi-record holder), Brian Siders (IPF world level, may even hold records), Glenn Ross and so many others done well in both sports?
Three sentences and 6 logical errors. appalling. Bottom line: Garry Frank, Hossein Reza Zadeh, Ronnie Coleman and Mariusz Pudzianowski are ALL strong. Who’s strongest? There’s no way to test that and all this is just so much mental masturbation.
I agree with a lot of what KBC said.
I do think that strongman athletes are the strongest. This does NOT mean they have the best maximum strength, although despite recent WSM shows not testing, they still do have awesome absolute strength. I’m talking about overall strength.
Powerlifters are definitely strong, but it doesn’t always carryover to strongman, which says something. I have had an 800 lb. squatter come to my house and I can flip the 750 tire better, load heavier stones, etc.
I have no idea how anyone could think out of the four groups listed that bodybuilders are second strongest. They are last no question. Remember, we are talking about the group as a whole, not the top heavyweights.
This is coming from a former bodybuilder, powerlifter, and now a current strongman athlete who practices olympic lifts.
[quote]Pound4Pound wrote:
superscience wrote:
apwsearch wrote:
Well, superscience, I will state that 90% of “bodybuilders,” are all show and no go.
Most of them spend all their time fancy pantsing around the gym, yelling and screaming while they do their reps, and if and when they get up the balls to talk to you they tell you about the show, “they almost did,” or how they are getting in shape to, “come out of nowhere and fu(k some s#it up.” But they never do it. They are nothing but gym rats with an attitude they never earn.
On the converse, I cannot recall the last time I met someone who called themself a powerlifter or strongman who did not actually compete.
Obviously, the 10% of BB’s that actually compete, or even have a clue in regards to training and are not working on the “Weider Principals” are the exception.
To state that Pudz “only squatted 310 kilos with a belt and wraps” as if that proves anything tells me that you are within the 90th percentile.
Next.
im not a bodybuilder so im not in that 90%. i just started this thread to show that bodybuilders aint weak because even the trainers on here say there weak in their articles sometimes. i used ronnie and marius as an example both top of their sports and ronnie would equal him or pass him in the big three.
Just because Ronnie Coleman is a strong mofo doen’t for a second mean ALL bodybuilders aren’t weak!! Some are some aren’t.
However, as far as all around strength goes, a strong bodybuilder will be stronger than a strong powerlifter. Powerlifters are probably the weakest of all strength athletes. They can no doubt bench, squat and dead the most as that’s the sole thing they train for, but all around strength, through in some strong man, dumbells, OL etc, and Strong men come 1st, strong bodybuilders 2nd, OL lifters 3rd and Powerlifters LAST!!!
[/quote]
you should become a personal trainer…
you’d fit right in…
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
Pound4Pound wrote:
However, as far as all around strength goes, a strong bodybuilder will be stronger than a strong powerlifter. Powerlifters are probably the weakest of all strength athletes. They can no doubt bench, squat and dead the most as that’s the sole thing they train for, but all around strength, through in some strong man, dumbells, OL etc, and Strong men come 1st, strong bodybuilders 2nd, OL lifters 3rd and Powerlifters LAST!!!
This is honestly the stupidest post on this entire thread.
[/quote]
I second that. Re-read this post and realise that it doesn’t even make sense.
“However, as far as all around strength goes, a strong bodybuilder will be stronger than a strong powerlifter.”
Huh? I know several PLers who were strong, and competed in bodybuilding, and were still strong. Were they suddenly stronger because they were using the title “bodybuilder”?
“Powerlifters are definitely strong, but it doesn’t always carryover to strongman, which says something. I have had an 800 lb. squatter come to my house and I can flip the 750 tire better, load heavier stones, etc.”
Wait, you know a PLer who isn’t as good at your sport as you are? This is hardly a revelation. This is like gloating over beating Michael Jordan at volleyball.
The problem with these posts is that you are comparing apples to oranges. Yes, a strongman is going to be better at lifting unstable objects, have better conditioning, etc. than a PLer. I don’t see what this proves, other than that they train to do that.
[quote]DPH wrote:
you should become a personal trainer…
you’d fit right in…[/quote]
Listen, I’m just going on fact, not fiction like the rest of you. I did trained heavy bodybuilding for years. Bodybuilding came first, strength secondary. My very first month of powerlifting I trained with some strong powerlifters. They could destroy me on the big 3. However, every other excercise I matched or beat them!! Any dumbell excercises, extensions, reverse bench etc etc. They were also bigger and heavier than me.
Case in point, my point has been proven.
[quote]Kliplemet wrote:
weightlifters, as a group, are still the strongest people in the world[/quote]
Kind of silly how one set of the same group thinks they are more elite than the other.
[quote]Pound4Pound wrote:
Case in point, my point has been proven.[/quote]
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Kliplemet wrote:
weightlifters, as a group, are still the strongest people in the world
Kind of silly how one set of the same group thinks they are more elite than the other.[/quote]
It sure is silly! Weightlifting/Powerlifting/Bodybuilding is a brotherhood of people with a hell of a lot more in commom then they like to believe. The fact is that the super strong guys like Paul Anderson, Garry Frank, Ed Coan, Vasily Aleyev, Hossein Razazedeh, Ronnie Colman, Franco Columbo… etc…etc… are just plain STRONG. It’s just like when you were a kid. Did you know a guy who was a great athlete? Like so good that he either played Pro or almost Pro when he grew up. Were they not good at every sport? I mean the guys that were the best football players were usually the best baseball and basketball players also.
[quote]cap’nsalty wrote:
“Powerlifters are definitely strong, but it doesn’t always carryover to strongman, which says something. I have had an 800 lb. squatter come to my house and I can flip the 750 tire better, load heavier stones, etc.”
Wait, you know a PLer who isn’t as good at your sport as you are? This is hardly a revelation. This is like gloating over beating Michael Jordan at volleyball.
[/quote]
Your analogy is horrible.
Both powerfliting and strongman are strength sports. You would think they would carry over to a certain degree. Whereas, basketball and volleyball are completely different. I don’t know how you can make that analogy.
If you read the rest of my post maybe you would have picked up on the fact that I was pointing out that strongman generally have more of an “overall strength” than powerfliters
[quote]Spartan300 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Kliplemet wrote:
weightlifters, as a group, are still the strongest people in the world
Kind of silly how one set of the same group thinks they are more elite than the other.
It sure is silly! Weightlifting/Powerlifting/Bodybuilding is a brotherhood of people with a hell of a lot more in commom then they like to believe. The fact is that the super strong guys like Paul Anderson, Garry Frank, Ed Coan, Vasily Aleyev, Hossein Razazedeh, Ronnie Colman, Franco Columbo… etc…etc… are just plain STRONG. It’s just like when you were a kid. Did you know a guy who was a great athlete? Like so good that he either played Pro or almost Pro when he grew up. Were they not good at every sport? I mean the guys that were the best football players were usually the best baseball and basketball players also. [/quote]
Excellent point!
To the rest of the world, we (Plers, BBers, OLers, etc.) are totally identical. Yet, we insist on bickering when our similarities greatly outweigh our differences.
When it comes down to it, we’re all just gym rats.
[quote]harris447 wrote:
To the rest of the world, we (Plers, BBers, OLers, etc.) are totally identical. Yet, we insist on bickering when our similarities greatly outweigh our differences.
When it comes down to it, we’re all just gym rats.
[/quote]
Excactly LOL. Wether your a PL/OL or BB and you meet someone at say a party. The conversation goes kinda like this
“your big do you lift weights”?
“Actually I compete in the sport of powerlifting”
“WOW it must be hard to lift so much over your head”?
Then the guy goes over to his girlfriend and says “I could be like that if i spent my life in the Gym and he’s probaly on steroids anyway”
Most people have no clue nor do they really give a shit. LOL
[quote]Spartan300 wrote:
harris447 wrote:
To the rest of the world, we (Plers, BBers, OLers, etc.) are totally identical. Yet, we insist on bickering when our similarities greatly outweigh our differences.
When it comes down to it, we’re all just gym rats.
Excactly LOL. Wether your a PL/OL or BB and you meet someone at say a party. The conversation goes kinda like this
“your big do you lift weights”?
“Actually I compete in the sport of powerlifting”
“WOW it must be hard to lift so much over your head”?
Then the guy goes over to his girlfriend and says “I could be like that if i spent my life in the Gym and he’s probaly on steroids anyway”
Most people have no clue nor do they really give a shit. LOL[/quote]
lol, that’s bang on!
On the bright side, if you’re the type that believes in misery loving company, these types of arguments occur in most other circles.
In MMA, BJJ guys talk about how much better their style is than Judo; and there’s even infighting within karate styles! They all think that their differences are so huge, but to the rest of the world they’re just guys wearing pyjamas.
But everyone wants to believe that they’re special and all knowing, so they make a big deal out of nothing.
[quote]MarcAnthony wrote:
Spartan300 wrote:
harris447 wrote:
To the rest of the world, we (Plers, BBers, OLers, etc.) are totally identical. Yet, we insist on bickering when our similarities greatly outweigh our differences.
When it comes down to it, we’re all just gym rats.
Excactly LOL. Wether your a PL/OL or BB and you meet someone at say a party. The conversation goes kinda like this
“your big do you lift weights”?
“Actually I compete in the sport of powerlifting”
“WOW it must be hard to lift so much over your head”?
Then the guy goes over to his girlfriend and says “I could be like that if i spent my life in the Gym and he’s probaly on steroids anyway”
Most people have no clue nor do they really give a shit. LOL
lol, that’s bang on!
On the bright side, if you’re the type that believes in misery loving company, these types of arguments occur in most other circles.
In MMA, BJJ guys talk about how much better their style is than Judo; and there’s even infighting within karate styles! They all think that their differences are so huge, but to the rest of the world they’re just guys wearing pyjamas.
But everyone wants to believe that they’re special and all knowing, so they make a big deal out of nothing.
[/quote]
Well, an old psychology truism is that th easiest way to get people to work together is to give them a common enemy.
It reminds me of the old “2000 Year-Old Man” bit by Mel Brooks. He’s asked what the very foirst national anthem was and he sings, “Let 'em all go to Hell…except cave 76!”
[quote]Pound4Pound wrote:
DPH wrote:
you should become a personal trainer…
you’d fit right in…
Listen, I’m just going on fact, not fiction like the rest of you. I did trained heavy bodybuilding for years. Bodybuilding came first, strength secondary. My very first month of powerlifting I trained with some strong powerlifters. They could destroy me on the big 3. However, every other excercise I matched or beat them!! Any dumbell excercises, extensions, reverse bench etc etc. They were also bigger and heavier than me.
Case in point, my point has been proven.[/quote]
OK, I have tried but I just can’t let this one go.
Let me make sure I am getting this.
These powerlifters could “destroy you,” (your words, now) in the big three, squat, bench and deadlift, and yet you would assert that you were stronger than them because you could perform a tricep extension or barbell curl with more weight?
Oh, yeah that’s right, and they outweighed you. I forgot your screen name is pound4pound, so obviously you are pretty sensitive about your size.
Dude, you are seriously delusional.
Let me ask you this. What barbell exercise do you feel is the most representative of overall strength?
Now, I am going to go out on a limb here and guess you will answer with one of the Olympic lifts because it provides you with a convenient way out of the corner you have painted yourself into. Don’t bother.
Because I am a fair guy, let me give you a couple choices. Tricep extensions or bench press? Barbell curls or deadlift? Leg extension or squat? Think fast, I know these are challenging questions.
Bottom line, it sounds like you weren’t very good at “training heavy bodybuilding” or powerlifting.
Get over it, dude.
[quote]apwsearch wrote:
[/quote]
OK, I have tried but I just can’t let this one go.
Let me make sure I am getting this.
These powerlifters could “destroy you,” (your words, now) in the big three, squat, bench and deadlift, and yet you would assert that you were stronger than them because you could perform a tricep extension or barbell curl with more weight?
No, equal or do more at dumbell tri ext, dumbell shoulder press, incline dumbell press, zercher squat, front squat, sldl, barbell rows, side laterals, reverse grip bench, etc etc
Oh, yeah that’s right, and they outweighed you. I forgot your screen name is pound4pound, so obviously you are pretty sensitive about your size.
Nope. I’m proud to be a strong, fast, explosive, athletic individual lb4lb. God made 6’+, 220lb+ guys bigger and stronger than me, that’s cool, I made myself well developed lb4lb.
Dude, you are seriously delusional.
Let me ask you this. What barbell exercise do you feel is the most representative of overall strength?
Now, I am going to go out on a limb here and guess you will answer with one of the Olympic lifts because it provides you with a convenient way out of the corner you have painted yourself into. Don’t bother.
I’ve felt the power clean/push press was for years now, back when you were still sucking on your mother teet.
Because I am a fair guy, let me give you a couple choices. Tricep extensions or bench press? Barbell curls or deadlift? Leg extension or squat? Think fast, I know these are challenging questions.
Compounds obviously.
Bottom line, it sounds like you weren’t very good at “training heavy bodybuilding” or powerlifting.
Bottom line is that powerlifters are like guys in the 3-point NBA shoot-out. Sure they’re the best at what they do but they are no where near the overall level of Lebron James, Kobe Bryant or Kevin Garnet. I want to be more like Michael Jordan and less like BJ Armstrong. LOL
[quote]Pound4Pound wrote:
apwsearch wrote:
OK, I have tried but I just can’t let this one go.
Let me make sure I am getting this.
These powerlifters could “destroy you,” (your words, now) in the big three, squat, bench and deadlift, and yet you would assert that you were stronger than them because you could perform a tricep extension or barbell curl with more weight?
No, equal or do more at dumbell tri ext, dumbell shoulder press, incline dumbell press, zercher squat, front squat, sldl, barbell rows, side laterals, reverse grip bench, etc etc
Oh, yeah that’s right, and they outweighed you. I forgot your screen name is pound4pound, so obviously you are pretty sensitive about your size.
Nope. I’m proud to be a strong, fast, explosive, athletic individual lb4lb. God made 6’+, 220lb+ guys bigger and stronger than me, that’s cool, I made myself well developed lb4lb.
Dude, you are seriously delusional.
Let me ask you this. What barbell exercise do you feel is the most representative of overall strength?
Now, I am going to go out on a limb here and guess you will answer with one of the Olympic lifts because it provides you with a convenient way out of the corner you have painted yourself into. Don’t bother.
I’ve felt the power clean/push press was for years now, back when you were still sucking on your mother teet.
Because I am a fair guy, let me give you a couple choices. Tricep extensions or bench press? Barbell curls or deadlift? Leg extension or squat? Think fast, I know these are challenging questions.
Compounds obviously.
Bottom line, it sounds like you weren’t very good at “training heavy bodybuilding” or powerlifting.
Bottom line is that powerlifters are like guys in the 3-point NBA shoot-out. Sure they’re the best at what they do but they are no where near the overall level of Lebron James, Kobe Bryant or Kevin Garnet. I want to be more like Michael Jordan and less like BJ Armstrong. LOL[/quote]
it would be easier to read your posts if you used the quote tags…
P4P, how can you not see the fault in your logic?
You’re comparing yourself (one person) to a bunch of powerlifting guys you know (a few people) and you’re making blanket statments about all or most bodybuilders and powerlifters and you’re calling it proof. IT’S NOT.
Now, from what I’ve seen, powerlifters are also very strong, compared to bodybuilders, at military presses, any form of rows, goodmornings, and any movement that involves the triceps, hamstrings, glutes, lower back, traps, shoulders, back, chest, biceps, forearms and maybe even calves. I haven’t seen any powerlifters doing front squats so I don’t know about that one.
Since I’m going by what I’ve seen, does that meen all powerlifters are stronger than all bodybuilders? NO, of course not. That would be just as crazy as you saying that, because you’re stronger than a small group of powerlifters in those exersises means bodybuilders are stronger at those lifts.
As far as that literal pound for pound crap that you’re so proud of, (understandably so but…) I used to also compare all of my lifts to my bodyweight back when I weighed 148lbs because I was strong for my weight and it made me feel better about myself. I was also able to run a 5K race in under 22 minutes.
Now I weigh 35lbs more, and my strength is much higher overall, but lb for lb it’s not nearly as good.
I can sprint faster and am stronger, healthier, more muscular, (even fatter), and happier, even though I’m not as strong lb for lb, and I can’t run long distances as well.
Anyway, I agree that we, as weight lifters, should stick together and it’s great that we all love lifting weights, but sometimes it’s just fun to argue for argument’s sake.
Hmmm, added a few movements to the list this time, eh? If you were sitting here with me it would be impossible for me to hide my shock.
In regards to back when I was still sucking on my “mother teet,” I had no idea you were in your mid to late 50’s. I always teach my kids to respect their elders, so please accept my sincere apologies for picking on you.
That’s the problem with the internet, you never know who you are posting to.
Maybe you should change your screen name to dentures4chewing, or something more appropriate? Then folks would know to back off.