Bodybuilder Training is Second to Only 1....

Diet and Nutrition
41

[quote]pro-a-ggression wrote:
Hey 'kuma. What makes you stick to simple carbs after your workout, obviously as opposed to before. I realise you follow what the ‘greats’ have done, and they do this. But why not follow the new line of thought to load simple carbs before and during with complex carbs after??

Have you tried this and didnt like it? Cos i know your not one to take information, see if it works, and disregard if it doesnt.

PS. nice thread. AGAIN. [/quote]

I just dont see how that make sense. I mean, im hungry about an hr after i take my PWO shake, and thats when i have my PWO meal. If i replace that shake with something thats going to take longer to breakdown and absorb, then thats going to push my PWO meal back a ways. Personally my PWO meal is last enough as it is, if i pushed it back any further, id be having it around 8pm. As a fellow who puts on his fat far too easily, i dunno have beneficial it’d be to be having 12oz of meat and 80carbs at 8pm, ya mean?

Not to mention the supposed “Window of opportunity” PWO for a PWO shake, The approximate 30min time frame you have to start the repairing/growing process with a headstart. If this were the case, why would you want to make the breakdown take longer? I mean, yea Ive read that “The Window” has been debated, but honestly, ive felt it work. There is no other time of day with no other meal that i can scarf down 800 calories (My PWO shake) and be hungry within an hour.

42

[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
With not too many questions popping up or anything going on in this thread, im basically gonna assume that everyone has a perfect diet. May i get some advice if thats the case?[/quote]
Bulking is the easy part, and that’s all I’ve done so far. 'Bout the only way you can screw up a bulk is to use it as an excuse to eat all the twinkies and ho-hos you want while half-assing it in the gym. Getting in enough protein while eating enough overall calories to gain .5-1lb per week while busting ass in the gym will work for just about anyone.

The tough part is going to be cutting. If I can preserve what I’ve gained while getting down to 10% (or lower) then I’ll pretend to have it right. My first cut starts on Sep. 1, with the goal of attaining said 10% by Dec. 1. I do realize, though, that 10% without much muscle loss isn’t really that much of a challenge, but that’s as lean as I care to be at this point.

43

[quote]Akuma01 wrote:

[quote]pro-a-ggression wrote:
Hey 'kuma. What makes you stick to simple carbs after your workout, obviously as opposed to before. I realise you follow what the ‘greats’ have done, and they do this. But why not follow the new line of thought to load simple carbs before and during with complex carbs after??

Have you tried this and didnt like it? Cos i know your not one to take information, see if it works, and disregard if it doesnt.

PS. nice thread. AGAIN. [/quote]

I just dont see how that make sense. I mean, im hungry about an hr after i take my PWO shake, and thats when i have my PWO meal. If i replace that shake with something thats going to take longer to breakdown and absorb, then thats going to push my PWO meal back a ways. Personally my PWO meal is last enough as it is, if i pushed it back any further, id be having it around 8pm. As a fellow who puts on his fat far too easily, i dunno have beneficial it’d be to be having 12oz of meat and 80carbs at 8pm, ya mean?

Not to mention the supposed “Window of opportunity” PWO for a PWO shake, The approximate 30min time frame you have to start the repairing/growing process with a headstart. If this were the case, why would you want to make the breakdown take longer? I mean, yea Ive read that “The Window” has been debated, but honestly, ive felt it work. There is no other time of day with no other meal that i can scarf down 800 calories (My PWO shake) and be hungry within an hour.[/quote]
Aha! That may be the difference right there. I’m usually done training by 4:30, have my shake before 5:00, and dinner is at 7:00-7:30. So I have plenty of time to get my appetite back for dinner.

Just looked up N-Large and your getting ~48g of maltodextrin + 35g fructose for carbs with ~80g Protein post-workout, right? I may start adding 25g or so of dextrose to mine and see if it does anything for me.

44

I guess this would be the best place to pose this question… but what are GENERALLY the advantages/disadvantages of a high carb/ low fat diet as opposed to the opposite, high fat/low carb. Just for example, what would one expect to see when changing from a diet where macros for Protein/ Carbs/ Fats are 40/40/20 to one where its 40/20/40? I mean, I know everyones body responds different, and I know high and low are relative terms, I’m trying wanting to know like a quick, rough summary of the pros and cons of each diet. Sorry if this questions been answered already, in a thread or article, but I couldnt find it.

45

[quote]Akuma01 wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
And ive ripped too many tight shirts awhile back, lol so i learned my lesson. [/quote]

I’m just picturing Akuma being asked to leave a party after his shirt explodes into shreds… Cue sad Incredible Hulk TV Show ending theme music (du,du,du, dumm… -lol)

S
[/quote]

Ive tried to alter shirts that are funny as hell and i love to make them work…but dude, Lol i just end up f-ing those up too.[/quote]

I remember another guy around here who used to alter his shirts…

(sigh)

46

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
I guess this would be the best place to pose this question… but what are GENERALLY the advantages/disadvantages of a high carb/ low fat diet as opposed to the opposite, high fat/low carb. Just for example, what would one expect to see when changing from a diet where macros for Protein/ Carbs/ Fats are 40/40/20 to one where its 40/20/40? I mean, I know everyones body responds different, and I know high and low are relative terms, I’m trying wanting to know like a quick, rough summary of the pros and cons of each diet. Sorry if this questions been answered already, in a thread or article, but I couldnt find it.[/quote]

read my initial post. Then you decide how important your carbs are.

47

[quote]JayPierce wrote:

Bulking is the easy part, and that’s all I’ve done so far. 'Bout the only way you can screw up a bulk is to use it as an excuse to eat all the twinkies and ho-hos you want while half-assing it in the gym. Getting in enough protein while eating enough overall calories to gain .5-1lb per week while busting ass in the gym will work for just about anyone.

The tough part is going to be cutting. If I can preserve what I’ve gained while getting down to 10% (or lower) then I’ll pretend to have it right. My first cut starts on Sep. 1, with the goal of attaining said 10% by Dec. 1. I do realize, though, that 10% without much muscle loss isn’t really that much of a challenge, but that’s as lean as I care to be at this point.[/quote]

I feel the opposite. It was alot harder for me to force feed myself “clean” meals and constantly make sure I’m eating then it is to just simply eat less. At 240lbs that was a shitload of food. By “clean” I mean no junk food. Cutting requires a lot less meal planning and work then bulking. It’s just a little more uncomfortable being hungry often and not being able to make huge strength gains sucks. Also bulking (when done properly) takes alot longer and alot more money then cutting.

I’m currently trying to get down to 210. I hate being hungry but logistically, it’s a whole lot easier than bulking IMO.

Edit: To clarify, I’m NOT talking about bulking vs. dieting down to contest level condition. I’m taking about getting to around 10’ish bodyfat. Obviously getting contest lean is a whole other level.

48

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:

[quote]JayPierce wrote:

Bulking is the easy part, and that’s all I’ve done so far. 'Bout the only way you can screw up a bulk is to use it as an excuse to eat all the twinkies and ho-hos you want while half-assing it in the gym. Getting in enough protein while eating enough overall calories to gain .5-1lb per week while busting ass in the gym will work for just about anyone.

The tough part is going to be cutting. If I can preserve what I’ve gained while getting down to 10% (or lower) then I’ll pretend to have it right. My first cut starts on Sep. 1, with the goal of attaining said 10% by Dec. 1. I do realize, though, that 10% without much muscle loss isn’t really that much of a challenge, but that’s as lean as I care to be at this point.[/quote]

I feel the opposite. It was alot harder for me to force feed myself “clean” meals and constantly make sure I’m eating then it is to just simply eat less. At 240lbs that was a shitload of food. By “clean” I mean no junk food. Cutting requires a lot less meal planning and work then bulking. It’s just a little more uncomfortable being hungry often and not being able to make huge strength gains sucks. Also bulking (when done properly) takes alot longer and alot more money then cutting.

I’m currently trying to get down to 210. I hate being hungry but logistically, it’s a whole lot easier than bulking IMO.

Edit: To clarify, I’m NOT talking about bulking vs. dieting down to contest level condition. I’m taking about getting to around 10’ish bodyfat. Obviously getting contest lean is a whole other level.[/quote]
I hope it’s that easy for me. I think it’ll be more of a psychological strain than anything. I’ll probably have to hide the tape and scale and judge my progress by weekly pics and strength level. If I see my weight or measurements dropping, I might unconsciously sabotage myself.

49

[quote]JayPierce wrote:
I hope it’s that easy for me. I think it’ll be more of a psychological strain than anything. I’ll probably have to hide the tape and scale and judge my progress by weekly pics and strength level. If I see my weight or measurements dropping, I might unconsciously sabotage myself.[/quote]

Cutting down is, for my part, completely psychological.

The issue comes less with food than with training. With food, I have been blessed with a seeming iron will. With training, however, the battle rages.

I always want to train as hard as ever, but feel paranoid that the low calories and nutrients will make my efforts counterproductive due to various high volume/high intensity issues. When I continue to train normally, I become ravaged by fatigue and soreness. When I lighten up, I have to force myself to remember that the intensity will return when I begin gaining again.

While eating less (and often far fewer CHO) and adding in more cardio and NEPA feels straightforward, the issues I experience in terms of adjusting my volume and intensity are the biggest challenge.

I don’t want to take away from the main topic of this thread, and only wanted to offer this challenge I experience when dieting down.

MID

50

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]waldo21212 wrote:

I think this is the video you were referencing Akuma. Also he is just talking about his pre-contest diet, I’m pretty sure Dave eats red meat in the off-season.[/quote]

i genuinely felt bad for that guy. Not having the support of your close friends and family is a pretty shitty situation. I know they were hamming it up for the cameras but you could tell its real[/quote]

I can unfortunately relate. When dieting down, my gf LOVES to tease me, entice me, and pressure me about whatever restrictive diet I am following. She will buy pizza or french fries, and waft them in front of me, offering a bite and criticizing me when I decline.

I always think I have put an end to it, but with every new cut she starts again.

It really pisses me off, and no matter how I put it she never fully understands how undermining that can be.

Seeing that video, I could feel what Dave was going through.

MID

51

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:

[quote]JayPierce wrote:

Bulking is the easy part, and that’s all I’ve done so far. 'Bout the only way you can screw up a bulk is to use it as an excuse to eat all the twinkies and ho-hos you want while half-assing it in the gym. Getting in enough protein while eating enough overall calories to gain .5-1lb per week while busting ass in the gym will work for just about anyone.

The tough part is going to be cutting. If I can preserve what I’ve gained while getting down to 10% (or lower) then I’ll pretend to have it right. My first cut starts on Sep. 1, with the goal of attaining said 10% by Dec. 1. I do realize, though, that 10% without much muscle loss isn’t really that much of a challenge, but that’s as lean as I care to be at this point.[/quote]

I feel the opposite. It was alot harder for me to force feed myself “clean” meals and constantly make sure I’m eating then it is to just simply eat less. At 240lbs that was a shitload of food. By “clean” I mean no junk food. Cutting requires a lot less meal planning and work then bulking. It’s just a little more uncomfortable being hungry often and not being able to make huge strength gains sucks. Also bulking (when done properly) takes alot longer and alot more money then cutting.

I’m currently trying to get down to 210. I hate being hungry but logistically, it’s a whole lot easier than bulking IMO.

Edit: To clarify, I’m NOT talking about bulking vs. dieting down to contest level condition. I’m taking about getting to around 10’ish bodyfat. Obviously getting contest lean is a whole other level.[/quote]

Why are you eating “clean” meals if you are bulking? You are MAKING bulking harder on yourself.

its easier to get 600 calories of jack in the box than it is to get 600 calories of tuna. figure it out man. first thing you need to put on size is a surplus of calories, so what do you want to eat? Calorically dense foods. peanut butter and jelly, whole milk, fast food, rice, red meat, cheesecake, take your pick!

nothing personal, but a “clean bulk” is the most retarded idea of all time. That’s the first thing I tell the little high schoolers who come ask me how to get big. They always complain about how they can’t seem to put on size, even though they work real hard, and they’re eating clean. The first thing I say is, “stop eating clean, you need calories, doesn’t matter where they come from.”

52

Lol oh yea, just take a look at Jay cutler or Lee priest in the offseason…those guys are fricken little butter balls lol

53

[quote]Hyena wrote:

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:

[quote]JayPierce wrote:

Bulking is the easy part, and that’s all I’ve done so far. 'Bout the only way you can screw up a bulk is to use it as an excuse to eat all the twinkies and ho-hos you want while half-assing it in the gym. Getting in enough protein while eating enough overall calories to gain .5-1lb per week while busting ass in the gym will work for just about anyone.

The tough part is going to be cutting. If I can preserve what I’ve gained while getting down to 10% (or lower) then I’ll pretend to have it right. My first cut starts on Sep. 1, with the goal of attaining said 10% by Dec. 1. I do realize, though, that 10% without much muscle loss isn’t really that much of a challenge, but that’s as lean as I care to be at this point.[/quote]

I feel the opposite. It was alot harder for me to force feed myself “clean” meals and constantly make sure I’m eating then it is to just simply eat less. At 240lbs that was a shitload of food. By “clean” I mean no junk food. Cutting requires a lot less meal planning and work then bulking. It’s just a little more uncomfortable being hungry often and not being able to make huge strength gains sucks. Also bulking (when done properly) takes alot longer and alot more money then cutting.

I’m currently trying to get down to 210. I hate being hungry but logistically, it’s a whole lot easier than bulking IMO.

Edit: To clarify, I’m NOT talking about bulking vs. dieting down to contest level condition. I’m taking about getting to around 10’ish bodyfat. Obviously getting contest lean is a whole other level.[/quote]

Why are you eating “clean” meals if you are bulking? You are MAKING bulking harder on yourself.

its easier to get 600 calories of jack in the box than it is to get 600 calories of tuna. figure it out man. first thing you need to put on size is a surplus of calories, so what do you want to eat? Calorically dense foods. peanut butter and jelly, whole milk, fast food, rice, red meat, cheesecake, take your pick!

nothing personal, but a “clean bulk” is the most retarded idea of all time. That’s the first thing I tell the little high schoolers who come ask me how to get big. They always complain about how they can’t seem to put on size, even though they work real hard, and they’re eating clean. The first thing I say is, “stop eating clean, you need calories, doesn’t matter where they come from.” [/quote]
Hells yeah. I love my bulking staples. Double burgers, barbecue shicken, PBJ’s, loaded spaghetti… I tend to stay away from teh cakez and cookiez, though. If for no other reason, those are just really tough habits for me to break.

54

[quote]SSC wrote:

[/quote]

You guys who can eat that close to training (and drink whey during) never cease to amaze me. If I drink a shake with carbs (which is very light to me) less than 1.5 hours or so before I train it will just end up in the trash can/on the gym floor. I can only do whole food 2+ hours before I go to the gym.

55

[quote]Hyena wrote:
nothing personal, but a “clean bulk” is the most retarded idea of all time. That’s the first thing I tell the little high schoolers who come ask me how to get big. They always complain about how they can’t seem to put on size, even though they work real hard, and they’re eating clean. The first thing I say is, “stop eating clean, you need calories, doesn’t matter where they come from.” [/quote]

Dude, I know your statement is more pointed at high schoolers whose metabolisms are through the roof, but this is faulty advice. For a large majority of people, it DOES matter where calories come from.

If I can get to roughly 4000 calories in a bulk with only steak, rice, eggs, cheese, oats, and shit like that, I’m going to, because it’s better for my wallet (something that is of huge concern to me) and better for my physique. Everyone has their own degree of what they consider a “clean” bulk, but I don’t think everyone who does consider themselves to clean bulk is simply eatings tuna + chicken and broccoli, haha.

56

[quote]Hyena wrote:

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:

I feel the opposite. It was alot harder for me to force feed myself “clean” meals and constantly make sure I’m eating then it is to just simply eat less. At 240lbs that was a shitload of food. By “clean” I mean no junk food. Cutting requires a lot less meal planning and work then bulking. It’s just a little more uncomfortable being hungry often and not being able to make huge strength gains sucks. Also bulking (when done properly) takes alot longer and alot more money then cutting.

I’m currently trying to get down to 210. I hate being hungry but logistically, it’s a whole lot easier than bulking IMO.

Edit: To clarify, I’m NOT talking about bulking vs. dieting down to contest level condition. I’m taking about getting to around 10’ish bodyfat. Obviously getting contest lean is a whole other level.[/quote]

Why are you eating “clean” meals if you are bulking? You are MAKING bulking harder on yourself.

its easier to get 600 calories of jack in the box than it is to get 600 calories of tuna. figure it out man. first thing you need to put on size is a surplus of calories, so what do you want to eat? Calorically dense foods. peanut butter and jelly, whole milk, fast food, rice, red meat, cheesecake, take your pick!

nothing personal, but a “clean bulk” is the most retarded idea of all time. That’s the first thing I tell the little high schoolers who come ask me how to get big. They always complain about how they can’t seem to put on size, even though they work real hard, and they’re eating clean. The first thing I say is, “stop eating clean, you need calories, doesn’t matter where they come from.” [/quote]

Did you not read where I wrote “By clean I mean no junk food.” ? Junk food is soda, potato chips, chocolate, candy, cake and all that contributes NOTHING to building muscle. I’m not talking about rice, potatoes, red meat or cheeseburgers. I have gone from 6’ 190 in October 2008 to 230lbs by July 2009 with huge increases in strength with pic’s and threads all over the site about it so I know what I’m doing when it comes to the topic of bulking. I’ve “figured it out man”.

I’ve also done a 30 lb cut before, and I’ve found cutting to be less of a pain in the ass than bulking. I’m not going to do something stupid like eating cheesecake to keep the scale moving when I could be getting the extra calories from potatoes, yams, more beef or peanuts. Yeah it may be easier to eat cheesecake then ground beef, but it certainly makes a difference when you make the smarter choice.

57

[quote]SSC wrote:

Dude, I know your statement is more pointed at high schoolers whose metabolisms are through the roof, but this is faulty advice. For a large majority of people, it DOES matter where calories come from.

If I can get to roughly 4000 calories in a bulk with only steak, rice, eggs, cheese, oats, and shit like that, I’m going to, because it’s better for my wallet (something that is of huge concern to me) and better for my physique. Everyone has their own degree of what they consider a “clean” bulk, but I don’t think everyone who does consider themselves to clean bulk is simply eatings tuna + chicken and broccoli, haha.[/quote]

Exactly. Especially when your 34 years old like I am. Your body is alot less forgiving to poor food choices (ie cake, fries, too much white bread) when you get in your 30’s. The foods you listed above is exactly where I get my calories from when I bulk. Just add potatoes, milk and ground beef and that’s about all I eat. I was just making the point that it is personally easier for me to cut back to let’s say 2300 calories and be hungry and lose weight then to stuff my face with the foods you listed during a bulk ESPECIALLY when you get past 230 lbs and need over 4500 calories as I did.

58

[quote]SSC wrote:

[quote]Hyena wrote:
nothing personal, but a “clean bulk” is the most retarded idea of all time. That’s the first thing I tell the little high schoolers who come ask me how to get big. They always complain about how they can’t seem to put on size, even though they work real hard, and they’re eating clean. The first thing I say is, “stop eating clean, you need calories, doesn’t matter where they come from.” [/quote]

Dude, I know your statement is more pointed at high schoolers whose metabolisms are through the roof, but this is faulty advice. For a large majority of people, it DOES matter where calories come from.

If I can get to roughly 4000 calories in a bulk with only steak, rice, eggs, cheese, oats, and shit like that, I’m going to, because it’s better for my wallet (something that is of huge concern to me) and better for my physique. Everyone has their own degree of what they consider a “clean” bulk, but I don’t think everyone who does consider themselves to clean bulk is simply eatings tuna + chicken and broccoli, haha.[/quote]

Id say it was an attempt at an extreme “You dumb” to the guys out there eating 3 meals a day, one of which is a 5oz chicken breast + a cup of romaine lettuce. I know i did that for the first couple years of training. I ate very cleanly, with low carb. The result was i became a pretty strong 180lber, but i wasnt big. When i flicked on the ‘im bulking’ Switch, the carbs rolled in. Id say yes to things i wouldnt touch before. Yes, a side effect was some fat gain, but in all honestly, you need that. Now, we arent saying compose an entire diet of chocolate bars, ice cream, an oreos; but, those make a dandy addition to a Full, solid meal. Hyena isnt talking extremes. Face it, if someone thinks “Dude you need to stop eating clean” translates into “Only eat ice cream and twinkies,” then id say eliminating that particular gene pool could be beneficial to the world, lol

59

[quote]waldo21212 wrote:

[quote]SSC wrote:

[/quote]

You guys who can eat that close to training (and drink whey during) never cease to amaze me. If I drink a shake with carbs (which is very light to me) less than 1.5 hours or so before I train it will just end up in the trash can/on the gym floor. I can only do whole food 2+ hours before I go to the gym.[/quote]

Thats weird ive never had this problem even when i played rugby i could eat 30 mins before and play perfect without feeling sick… unless i ate eggs lol

60

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

[quote]waldo21212 wrote:

[quote]SSC wrote:

[/quote]

You guys who can eat that close to training (and drink whey during) never cease to amaze me. If I drink a shake with carbs (which is very light to me) less than 1.5 hours or so before I train it will just end up in the trash can/on the gym floor. I can only do whole food 2+ hours before I go to the gym.[/quote]

Thats weird ive never had this problem even when i played rugby i could eat 30 mins before and play perfect without feeling sick… unless i ate eggs lol [/quote]

The only time ive ever felt something like this was during one of my first weeks of doing the anaconda Protocol. I believe i was barbell rowing, and man, having all that stuff in my stomach almost made me throw up when put into that position, and heaving some heavy ass weight around. but then i slowly adjusted, i also started spacing the protocol a bit differently, and viola i was golden.