[quote]rds63799 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
If someone’s training 6 days a week and they go up 5% bodyfat, they’re not cut out for this.[/quote]
if someone’s training 6 days a week and goes up 5% bodyfat, then they probably eat like shit so they will be at higher risk of CVD[/quote]
That would explain the trouble with lunges.
LOLOLOL now we are talking about body fat increase during the post contest rebound phase for competitive bodybuilders?
Lol
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
If someone’s training 6 days a week and they go up 5% bodyfat, they’re not cut out for this.[/quote]
if someone’s training 6 days a week and goes up 5% bodyfat, then they probably eat like shit so they will be at higher risk of CVD[/quote]
Last I checked, someone going from 10-15% does not mean they eat like shit. That is pretty normal if there is enough muscle being gained.
Jumping the gun much?[/quote]
fair point, I guess it depends on the starting leanness
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
If someone’s training 6 days a week and they go up 5% bodyfat, they’re not cut out for this.[/quote]
So if a bodybuilder goes from contest weight to 11% they are not cut out for this?
Are you even cut out for this? last I heard, you were pushing a massive 175-180lbs at near 6 feet tall.[/quote]
Sigh. More shitty examples and personal attacks from the good doctor. Stay classy fatass.
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
If someone’s training 6 days a week and they go up 5% bodyfat, they’re not cut out for this.[/quote]
if someone’s training 6 days a week and goes up 5% bodyfat, then they probably eat like shit so they will be at higher risk of CVD[/quote]
Last I checked, someone going from 10-15% does not mean they eat like shit. That is pretty normal if there is enough muscle being gained.
Jumping the gun much?[/quote]
fair point, I guess it depends on the starting leanness[/quote]
That is why there is more bro science going around than true statements.
Somehow, gaining 5% body fat now means you have a “food addiction” and that you eat like shit, and that they are not cut out for this…even though 5% increases should be pretty damn common in bodybuilding.
If a lifter gained 80lbs and only gained 5% body fat, they are damn sure “cut out for this”.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
If someone’s training 6 days a week and they go up 5% bodyfat, they’re not cut out for this.[/quote]
if someone’s training 6 days a week and goes up 5% bodyfat, then they probably eat like shit so they will be at higher risk of CVD[/quote]
Last I checked, someone going from 10-15% does not mean they eat like shit. That is pretty normal if there is enough muscle being gained.
Jumping the gun much?[/quote]
fair point, I guess it depends on the starting leanness[/quote]
That is why there is more bro science going around than true statements.
Somehow, gaining 5% body fat now means you have a “food addiction” and that you eat like shit, and that they are not cut out for this…even though 5% increases should be pretty damn common in bodybuilding.
If a lifter gained 80lbs and only gained 5% body fat, they are damn sure “cut out for this”.[/quote]
Starting weight 150lbs with normal bodyfat % of 15.
80 pound increase with 5 % increase in bodyfat.
Result: 230 pounds at 20% bf
You don’t think adding 24 pounds of fat is going to increase their chances of CVD?
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Starting weight 150lbs with normal bodyfat % of 15.
80 pound increase with 5 % increase in bodyfat.
Result: 230 pounds at 20% bf
You don’t think adding 24 pounds of fat is going to increase their chances of CVD?[/quote]
No.
Just like in a clinic, the person who would think this does not understand human variability or all of the factors involved with someone getting a CVD.
Aside from the large genetic component, ignoring LIFESTYLE AND EXERCISE to only focus on body fat makes no sense as there is no one to one correlation.
That person could easily be MORE HEALTHY at 230lbs.
Steely just told you similar with his own results.
That is the difference between real science and “bro science”.
Ok so you can read my posts.
Any response to this?
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Reposting because apparently it was missed the 3-4 other times I asked
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Brick said being overweight was a risk factor.[/quote]
Brick wrote,
…which makes you incorrect.
From 6-8-2013 @ 1:30
Page 39 of the Bulking thread.[/quote]
I am still hoping to get a reply to this post Professor?
You were sure quick to try and talk down to me with that post but have inexplicably missed my response question all 6 times it was posted.
Here’s to hoping you don’t miss it again.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Starting weight 150lbs with normal bodyfat % of 15.
80 pound increase with 5 % increase in bodyfat.
Result: 230 pounds at 20% bf
You don’t think adding 24 pounds of fat is going to increase their chances of CVD?[/quote]
No.[/quote]
You can’t make a definitive answer like that without first examining his lifestyle and exercise choices, as well as his genetics.
A real doctor would know that.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Starting weight 150lbs with normal bodyfat % of 15.
80 pound increase with 5 % increase in bodyfat.
Result: 230 pounds at 20% bf
You don’t think adding 24 pounds of fat is going to increase their chances of CVD?[/quote]
No.[/quote]
You can’t make a definitive answer like that without first examining his lifestyle and exercise choices, as well as his genetics.
A real doctor would know that.[/quote]
…which is why I wrote all of this after the little snippet you took from the long post which responds directly to that
[quote]Just like in a clinic, the person who would think this does not understand human variability or all of the factors involved with someone getting a CVD.
Aside from the large genetic component, ignoring LIFESTYLE AND EXERCISE to only focus on body fat makes no sense as there is no one to one correlation.
That person could easily be MORE HEALTHY at 230lbs.
Steely just told you similar with his own results.
That is the difference between real science and “bro science”. [/quote]
Strange that you missed all of this. Really, really strange.
Gonna do a little list of the things fat cells are known to help regulate. Glucose and lipid metabolism, appetite regulation and body weight homeostasis, immunity, coagulation and fibrinolysis, angiogenesis and vascular tone control, and even reproduction. secrete hormones, but also growth factors, cytokines, complement factors and matrix proteins.
insulin resistance, inflammation, cardiovascular diseases, diabetes
Ectopic fat from insulin resistance which fat release restin when they grow, coating arteries and creating metabolic mayhem from fat not being stored.
aromatase (the enzyme converts testosterone and other androgens to estrogens) is located in subcutaneous fat and activated by the glucocorticoid a stress hormone. Bulking adding weight even muscle and fat both raise stress hormones
So bulking up and adding fat is good and healthy?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Starting weight 150lbs with normal bodyfat % of 15.
80 pound increase with 5 % increase in bodyfat.
Result: 230 pounds at 20% bf
You don’t think adding 24 pounds of fat is going to increase their chances of CVD?[/quote]
No.[/quote]
You can’t make a definitive answer like that without first examining his lifestyle and exercise choices, as well as his genetics.
A real doctor would know that.[/quote]
…which is why I wrote all of this after the little snippet you took from the long post which responds directly to that
[quote]Just like in a clinic, the person who would think this does not understand human variability or all of the factors involved with someone getting a CVD.
Aside from the large genetic component, ignoring LIFESTYLE AND EXERCISE to only focus on body fat makes no sense as there is no one to one correlation.
That person could easily be MORE HEALTHY at 230lbs.
Steely just told you similar with his own results.
That is the difference between real science and “bro science”. [/quote]
Strange that you missed all of this. Really, really strange.[/quote]
You completely missed his point.
All of your logic about bro science saying a 5% increase leads to a higher risk of CVD applies directly to your statements to the contrary.
He was basically pointing out what a huge hypocrite you are being.
You seemed to have missed that just like you missed my question about the made up quote you tried to rub in my face and talk down to me about.
lol @ going from 15% bodyfat to 20% bodyfat and being healthier.
Gimmie a break.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Starting weight 150lbs with normal bodyfat % of 15.
80 pound increase with 5 % increase in bodyfat.
Result: 230 pounds at 20% bf
You don’t think adding 24 pounds of fat is going to increase their chances of CVD?[/quote]
No.
Just like in a clinic, the person who would think this does not understand human variability or all of the factors involved with someone getting a CVD.
Aside from the large genetic component, ignoring LIFESTYLE AND EXERCISE to only focus on body fat makes no sense as there is no one to one correlation.
That person could easily be MORE HEALTHY at 230lbs.
Steely just told you similar with his own results.
That is the difference between real science and “bro science”.[/quote]
I will go out on a limb and say without a doubt in the example given that person will have a higher risk of CVD. Not one doubt in my mind.
Yeah, adding 5 of these to your body can sure make you healthier and will not increase your risk for CVD.
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Yes, a 5% increase in bodyfat will result in a higher risk for CVD.
A 210 pound person in the normal BF rage with a 5% increase is 12-13 pounds of pure fat.
How can that not put you at a higher risk, even if the risk increase is very small.
No way adding 12-13 pounds of fat will make that person healthier.
Your only options are:
A. Adding 5% body fat will reduce your risk for CVD (lol)
B. Adding 5% body fat will keep your risk level EXACTLY the same
C. Adding 5% body fat will increase your risk for CVD
How do you think packing on a dozen pounds of pure fat will effect ones health?[/quote]
Lets talk about this for a second because I happen to agree but I wonder just how concerned an individual should be with what might very well be a very small increase in risk. Additionally doesn’t even the lean gains approach cause some fat to be added which would add some risk more matter how much someone would try to mitigate it?
So assuming that a person isn’t going to continually try to get leaner at the cost of other goals what are the thought on where the cut off point is health wise?
[quote]JoeGood wrote:
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Yes, a 5% increase in bodyfat will result in a higher risk for CVD.
A 210 pound person in the normal BF rage with a 5% increase is 12-13 pounds of pure fat.
How can that not put you at a higher risk, even if the risk increase is very small.
No way adding 12-13 pounds of fat will make that person healthier.
Your only options are:
A. Adding 5% body fat will reduce your risk for CVD (lol)
B. Adding 5% body fat will keep your risk level EXACTLY the same
C. Adding 5% body fat will increase your risk for CVD
How do you think packing on a dozen pounds of pure fat will effect ones health?[/quote]
Lets talk about this for a second because I happen to agree but I wonder just how concerned an individual should be with what might very well be a very small increase in risk. Additionally doesn’t even the lean gains approach cause some fat to be added which would add some risk more matter how much someone would try to mitigate it?
So assuming that a person isn’t going to continually try to get leaner at the cost of other goals what are the thought on where the cut off point is health wise?[/quote]
Good points.
I don’t think there is a hard cut off point per say.
This is all individual.
Higher bodyfat percentages should be held for as little time as possible IMO.
The more fat you carry the more at risk you are for health issues.
Obviously this doesn’t mean gaining a pound of fat means you’ll have a MI next week.
As a general rule I don’t think getting over roughly 15% is needed.
[quote]JoeGood wrote:
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Yes, a 5% increase in bodyfat will result in a higher risk for CVD.
A 210 pound person in the normal BF rage with a 5% increase is 12-13 pounds of pure fat.
How can that not put you at a higher risk, even if the risk increase is very small.
No way adding 12-13 pounds of fat will make that person healthier.
Your only options are:
A. Adding 5% body fat will reduce your risk for CVD (lol)
B. Adding 5% body fat will keep your risk level EXACTLY the same
C. Adding 5% body fat will increase your risk for CVD
How do you think packing on a dozen pounds of pure fat will effect ones health?[/quote]
Lets talk about this for a second because I happen to agree but I wonder just how concerned an individual should be with what might very well be a very small increase in risk. Additionally doesn’t even the lean gains approach cause some fat to be added which would add some risk more matter how much someone would try to mitigate it?
So assuming that a person isn’t going to continually try to get leaner at the cost of other goals what are the thought on where the cut off point is health wise?[/quote]
I would say from a risk mitigation standpoint that you should strive to stay under 15%. I think 20% is acceptable but not necessarily good.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Starting weight 150lbs with normal bodyfat % of 15.
80 pound increase with 5 % increase in bodyfat.
Result: 230 pounds at 20% bf
You don’t think adding 24 pounds of fat is going to increase their chances of CVD?[/quote]
No.
Just like in a clinic, the person who would think this does not understand human variability or all of the factors involved with someone getting a CVD.
Aside from the large genetic component, ignoring LIFESTYLE AND EXERCISE to only focus on body fat makes no sense as there is no one to one correlation.
That person could easily be MORE HEALTHY at 230lbs.
Steely just told you similar with his own results.
That is the difference between real science and “bro science”.[/quote]
I am confused as to what a clinic has to do with anything?
And I hate to tell you but adding and extra 5% increase in fat there is almost no shot of that person being healthier because that increase means one thing since he is obviously exercising, his diet is not correct for the amount of work that he is doing. He may not be a ticking time bomb but he is unhealthier than he would be if he lost that 12 extra lbs of fat he has accumulated.
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Gonna do a little list of the things fat cells are known to help regulate. Glucose and lipid metabolism, appetite regulation and body weight homeostasis, immunity, coagulation and fibrinolysis, angiogenesis and vascular tone control, and even reproduction. secrete hormones, but also growth factors, cytokines, complement factors and matrix proteins.
insulin resistance, inflammation, cardiovascular diseases, diabetes
Ectopic fat from insulin resistance which fat release restin when they grow, coating arteries and creating metabolic mayhem from fat not being stored.
aromatase (the enzyme converts testosterone and other androgens to estrogens) is located in subcutaneous fat and activated by the glucocorticoid a stress hormone. Bulking adding weight even muscle and fat both raise stress hormones
So bulking up and adding fat is good and healthy?[/quote]
You are way more advanced than me in this realm so I wanted to ask you: would it be possible to add additional fat and still be metabolically healthy? I remember reading a few years ago that many people with low level body fat are metabolically obese and visa-versa. But with that extensive list you just wrote out, it seems that it would be highly unlikely for an overweight person to be healthy in an endocrinological, cardiovascular or even emotional sense.
[quote]bpick86 wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Starting weight 150lbs with normal bodyfat % of 15.
80 pound increase with 5 % increase in bodyfat.
Result: 230 pounds at 20% bf
You don’t think adding 24 pounds of fat is going to increase their chances of CVD?[/quote]
No.
Just like in a clinic, the person who would think this does not understand human variability or all of the factors involved with someone getting a CVD.
Aside from the large genetic component, ignoring LIFESTYLE AND EXERCISE to only focus on body fat makes no sense as there is no one to one correlation.
That person could easily be MORE HEALTHY at 230lbs.
Steely just told you similar with his own results.
That is the difference between real science and “bro science”.[/quote]
I am confused as to what a clinic has to do with anything?
And I hate to tell you but adding and extra 5% increase in fat there is almost no shot of that person being healthier because that increase means one thing since he is obviously exercising, his diet is not correct for the amount of work that he is doing. He may not be a ticking time bomb but he is unhealthier than he would be if he lost that 12 extra lbs of fat he has accumulated.[/quote]
None of this is correct. I am not going to argue further with you, however, because you seem to really think you know the full complexity of our own biology.
I will take your statements point by point.
-I am confused as to what a clinic has to do with anything?
I mentioned a clinic to imply real world experience in diagnosing patients with diseases.
-I hate to tell you but adding and extra 5% increase in fat there is almost no shot of that person being healthier because that increase means one thing since he is obviously exercising, his diet is not correct for the amount of work that he is doing.
None of this is true. Yes, a person with a 5% increase in body fat can be healthier than they were when leaner. That is because your health is not hanging in the balance of your fat percentage alone.
It also does not mean someone’s diet was incorrect. Bauber has shown this. You really think his “diet was incorrect” when he gained more body fat? Wasn’t he working on gaining muscle? So wasn’t his diet CORRECT to get the results he was after?
Do you understand that your BODY FAT is not the main priority of all lifters at all times when they are gaining?
Do you understand that a 5% increase in body fat over ten years as someone gains 80lbs is exceptional in terms of muscle building progress and not “unhealthy” in and of itself?
-He may not be a ticking time bomb but he is unhealthier than he would be if he lost that 12 extra lbs of fat he has accumulated
Once again, there is no one to one correlation between body fat and your health. It is based on a culmination of factors. You can NOT make the statement that someone will be “healthier” if they lose more fat in all cases. That has no basis in science at all. Making statements like this is BRO SCIENCE…because it isn’t backed in real science. It is what guys like you jump to in conclusions based on what you already want to believe with limited education in the subject you are reviewing. Your body is way more complex than this.
If it were not, the human race would have been extinguished before we learned to make buildings out of stone.
If gaining fat alone was that much of a risk, most of the human population in America would have died off before finishing their second round of Breyer’s icecream.
