Black Teen Shot by Neighborhood Watch

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
BTW…these stories aren’t just “stories.” They are true events that have shaped how I deal with situations. If you’re implying that I’m lying…well that’s a bit insulting. My experience with racist/racism runs deep. If you don’t believe it because you wanna drink the koolaid and pretend like these things don’t happen anymore then it’s up to you to continue to live in ignorance.[/quote]

I have to agree that the constant, “Oh you’re just seeing things” is about as disrespectful and “elitist” as you can get. This conversation isn’t being held amongst a bunch of sixth graders.

I do believe many of us have earned the right to be taken seriously about our perceptions instead of the constant brush off.

If this case had not been brought to the public the way it was, it is likely it would have just been swept under the rug. They drug/alcohol tested the dead body but not the guy who shot him???

The argument that racism is so small today it shouldn’t be a worry loses its substance when people still get killed for skin tone.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:

This is what happens when we go along with this bullshit ‘‘colorblind’’ agenda and don’t teach our kids the truth. Obviously people are not colorblind and have deep seated views about different cultures whether we discuss it openly or not.

This reminds me of the scene in Crash where that guy ends up shooting the black man in his car because he was afraid of him pulling a gun out of his pocket.[/quote]

Well, warning your kid that they are more likely to be profiled as a criminal because of race is now “racist”. It sort of leaves blacks in America with “damned if you do, damned if you don’t”.

From the comments, the ideal black parent is one who raises their kid to be clueless about discrimination since it isn’t an issue anyway…let’s just sweep the execution and racial profiling under the table and try our best to explain it away like it had NOTHING to do with skin color.

It makes me wonder what parents teach their kids when they ask why this happened. Do they just ignore the profiling part and try to make it seem like wearing a hood made this man a threat?

Do they equate grabbing at the waist with guns and violence to justify the action?[/quote]
Should white parents teach their kids that minorities commit the majority of violent crimes even though they make up a small portion of society and should therefore be viewed with suspicion if unknown?[/quote]

They should be taught about socioeconomic differences, not that one race is more likely to kill you because they are black.

[/quote]

But if you are going to be killed, your killer most likely WILL BE BLACK. If you are black that is.

If you tell your kids all the rest but not that, you are leaving out a pretty vital piece of information.

[quote]overstand wrote:

Also, acting like someone following you around a jewelry store is some huge racist injustice is a joke and Harriet Tubman would probably laugh in your face.

[/quote]

LOL. Yes…God forbid she expect to be treated like everyone else and allowed to shop without being treated like a criminal.

In the same vein as Orion’s post, I will tell my daughter that she is much more likely to suffer violence at the hands of a male intimate partner than any stranger, black or white.

I think it really hard to understand racism unless you know it is to be hated and your life threatened based solely on the color of your skin. It’s happened to me before but not nearly as often as many people have to endure. Until you experience this everything is hypothetical.

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
In the same vein as Orion’s post, I will tell my daughter that she is much more likely to suffer violence at the hands of a male intimate partner than any stranger, black or white.[/quote]

Yup, far far more likely.

The truth is, you already know your would be rapist.

Or killer if you are a woman.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:

Also, acting like someone following you around a jewelry store is some huge racist injustice is a joke and Harriet Tubman would probably laugh in your face.

[/quote]

LOL. Yes…God forbid she expect to be treated like everyone else and allowed to shop without being treated like a criminal.[/quote]

I knew you were going to pick a single quote out of my post and ignore the rest. If being judged on my appearance at a jewelry store is the price I have to pay for preferential treatment in every facet of life, sign me the hell up.

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

From the comments, the ideal black parent is one who raises their kid to be clueless about discrimination since it isn’t an issue anyway…let’s just sweep the execution and racial profiling under the table and try our best to explain it away like it had NOTHING to do with skin color.

[/quote]

It’s a fine line between being realistic and crying wolf or just worrying about it too much.

[/quote]

I think that line is when you can still die from it.

Look, I already gave my personal opinion of gated communities based on my experiences of being in a number of them. I knew a number of docs in the military who lived in them. I know the attitude I felt. Any kid of mine would have been aware of my thoughts on the matter and would have expected something like that to happen. Hell, I doubt I would have let him walk to the store alone…something I am sure his father will regret for the rest of his life.

This shit happens. What’s ridiculous is acting like you need a DNA report from a CSI unit, tape recordings and signed confession letters reading, “I iz a racizt” before you believe any racial injustice is ever present in society to a degree worth worrying about.

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:

[quote]red04 wrote:

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
A black person is more likely to be discriminated against is NORMAL SOCIAL SITUATIONS.
[/quote]

This is where you are wrong. Being a minority in this country is a huge advantage. You get preferential treatment everywhere. You are acting like people are still going around hanging blacks from trees when for every Trayvon Martin murdered by a racist there are thousands and thousands of black people who get accepted to college, granted loans or given jobs over equally qualified white people simply because they were born with dark skin.

White people are sick of it, and we are sick of the victim mentality. We are sick of paying for mistakes that our great great great great grandfathers might have made, and we are sick of black people being compensated for crimes they themselves were never a victim of. The vast majority of educated, decent white people don’t have a single racist bone in their body. The percentage of truly racist people is a tiny, tiny fraction of white people as a whole. Quit acting like this is some epidemic when it’s not, it’s a very rare isolated case.

I didn’t even know what racism was until I was 8 or 9 years old. We played in the Texas state youth basketball tournament and an all black team called me a “white devil” and a “honkey”. Petty racism goes both ways buddy.

Google “critical race theory”, and then google its criticisms. I’m not going to hash it out here, but it is clear this is what you believe. Racism is a social construct created entirely in our minds, and by teaching black kids to go into situations expecting prejudice does nothing except perpetuate the ideas.

Also, acting like someone following you around a jewelry store is some huge racist injustice is a joke and Harriet Tubman would probably laugh in your face.

[/quote]

Slow your roll friend. I get where you’re coming from and yes things have changed to help balance job/college fairness, but you will never be able to tell me that racism is only the small 1% of people in America. When I was growing up in New York my brother and I had to hide from a KKK member who was walking around looking for trouble…hood over his head and an axe. More recently I’vee been spit at at a gas station in Florida. I’ve experienced racial injustice more than your “racist people are only a small minority” arguement suggests. Have I simply been that unfortunate to run into every racially charged person in America? I think not.

I agree with you that some people can take entitlement of benefits and such too far because of civil rights history but that is NOT the majority. If there was no affirmitive action type of law in businesses and schools employment and enrollment would still be prodominately white by a landslide. 100% truth.[/quote]

Your anecdotal story could just be countered by any other person’s anecdotal story.

I think your second paragraph isn’t as true as you’d like it to be either. Plenty of fields of society have shown us that left to their own tendencies, performance rules, and people will employ or admit that which serves them best.[/quote]

Deep Sigh I’m sorry but I have to disagree. Maybe…MAYBE…but it wouldve taken a hella of a long time…like 100 years…I’m not even kidding![/quote]

As red said, I’ve got stories too. The difference is I understand that the handful of racist blacks I’ve met are not indicative of the thousands of black people I’ve interacted with in my lifetime.

I never said racism was extinct, either.

Also, those jobs SHOULD BE predominantly white. Black people account for something like 10% of the population, yet they feel they are entitled to 50/50 representation. Obviously there are more than two races in the world, but you get my point.

[quote]overstand wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:

Also, acting like someone following you around a jewelry store is some huge racist injustice is a joke and Harriet Tubman would probably laugh in your face.

[/quote]

LOL. Yes…God forbid she expect to be treated like everyone else and allowed to shop without being treated like a criminal.[/quote]

I knew you were going to pick a single quote out of my post and ignore the rest. If being judged on my appearance at a jewelry store is the price I have to pay for preferential treatment in every facet of life, sign me the hell up.

[/quote]

I ignored the rest because another poster answered about the way I would. No one is running from you, buddy.

I am sorry, but the idea that blacks get “preferential treatment in every facet of life” is now something you will have to prove.

I want specific proof of EVERY FACET OF LIFE being filled with preferential treatment for black people.

[quote]overstand wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:

Also, acting like someone following you around a jewelry store is some huge racist injustice is a joke and Harriet Tubman would probably laugh in your face.

[/quote]

LOL. Yes…God forbid she expect to be treated like everyone else and allowed to shop without being treated like a criminal.[/quote]

I knew you were going to pick a single quote out of my post and ignore the rest. If being judged on my appearance at a jewelry store is the price I have to pay for preferential treatment in every facet of life, sign me the hell up.

[/quote]

“If being judged on my appearance at a jewelry store is the price I have to pay for preferential treatment in every facet of life, sign me the hell up”

Brother, are you serious? You can’t be - or else you have no clue about the black experience. That has to be your pre workout suppliment messing with you.

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:

This is what happens when we go along with this bullshit ‘‘colorblind’’ agenda and don’t teach our kids the truth. Obviously people are not colorblind and have deep seated views about different cultures whether we discuss it openly or not.

This reminds me of the scene in Crash where that guy ends up shooting the black man in his car because he was afraid of him pulling a gun out of his pocket.[/quote]

Well, warning your kid that they are more likely to be profiled as a criminal because of race is now “racist”. It sort of leaves blacks in America with “damned if you do, damned if you don’t”.

From the comments, the ideal black parent is one who raises their kid to be clueless about discrimination since it isn’t an issue anyway…let’s just sweep the execution and racial profiling under the table and try our best to explain it away like it had NOTHING to do with skin color.

It makes me wonder what parents teach their kids when they ask why this happened. Do they just ignore the profiling part and try to make it seem like wearing a hood made this man a threat?

Do they equate grabbing at the waist with guns and violence to justify the action?[/quote]
Should white parents teach their kids that minorities commit the majority of violent crimes even though they make up a small portion of society and should therefore be viewed with suspicion if unknown?[/quote]

They should be taught about socioeconomic differences, not that one race is more likely to kill you because they are black.

This kid died by the hands of AUTHORITY FIGURES, not random drive bys. Big difference, homie.

A black person is more likely to be discriminated against is NORMAL SOCIAL SITUATIONS. I would raise a black kid to be on their guard in certain neighborhoods as well but RACE would not be why.

There is a pretty HUGE difference in making your child aware that more eyes will be on them as a potential social negative based on their race as a minority (which WILL hold them back if not aware of why with understanding of how to work around it)…and telling your kid that black people are more likely to kill you because they are black.
[/quote]
I see your point.

The damned if you do, damned if you don’t comment in this context is an angle I’ve never really considered as I don’t have a real basis for perception here. Interesting insight and understandable though I do believe parenting racial suspicion in to children perpetuates institutional racism, from either side. A necessary evil perhaps but when people automatically pull the racist card it is honestly a little sad to see, makes you wonder what the world looks like when everyone with white skin is a potential KKK member, not unlike stereotyping blacks as potentially more dangerous at all.

Surely being overly suspicious is more damaging than helpful.
[/quote]

I have been told by students that they assumed I was racist because I am from Texas. This is usually said at the end of the semester after they have not been able to prove their assumption right. [/quote]
Oh sweet stereotyping. But of course those assumptions were legit to hold.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

From the comments, the ideal black parent is one who raises their kid to be clueless about discrimination since it isn’t an issue anyway…let’s just sweep the execution and racial profiling under the table and try our best to explain it away like it had NOTHING to do with skin color.

[/quote]

It’s a fine line between being realistic and crying wolf or just worrying about it too much.

[/quote]

I think that line is when you can still die from it.

[/quote]

From this link Crime in the United States - Wikipedia

76 racial/religious murders in 2007, and that’s against all races/religions, not just blacks.

On average, 73 people are killed by lightning every year in the US.

The odds of being murdered by a racist are about the same as getting struck and killed by lightning.

edit: hopefully I fixed the quote formatting

[quote]Loudog75 wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:

Also, acting like someone following you around a jewelry store is some huge racist injustice is a joke and Harriet Tubman would probably laugh in your face.

[/quote]

LOL. Yes…God forbid she expect to be treated like everyone else and allowed to shop without being treated like a criminal.[/quote]

I knew you were going to pick a single quote out of my post and ignore the rest. If being judged on my appearance at a jewelry store is the price I have to pay for preferential treatment in every facet of life, sign me the hell up.

[/quote]

“If being judged on my appearance at a jewelry store is the price I have to pay for preferential treatment in every facet of life, sign me the hell up”

Brother, are you serious? You can’t be - or else you have no clue about the black experience. That has to be your pre workout suppliment messing with you.
[/quote]

Petty racism goes both ways. I have plenty of stories, and I’m sure the other white guys here have a few of their own. The difference, as I said, is that I understand that the few racist encounters I’ve experienced are not indicative of black people as a whole. On the other hand, black people seem to find every instance of racism evidence of some national epidemic.

[quote]red04 wrote:

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
BTW…these stories aren’t just “stories.” They are true events that have shaped how I deal with situations. If you’re implying that I’m lying…well that’s a bit insulting. My experience with racist/racism runs deep. If you don’t believe it because you wanna drink the koolaid and pretend like these things don’t happen anymore then it’s up to you to continue to live in ignorance.[/quote]

How is calling an anecdotal story an anecdotal story an implication of untruth? My statement merely means that your personal experiences could be countered by someone like myself(even if I chose not to disclose said counter anecdote).[/quote]

Oh I understand that. But I was just putting it out there just in case. :slight_smile:

I’ve seen a ton of racism in Louisiana. It’s just a part of life there. It’s accepted to a large degree. It’s in Southeast Texas and East Texas too. It’s more subtle and less in your face in Texas but definitely present. I’ve had friends come up to me and say, ‘Why do you hang around those people’. There was an implication they were better friends because they were white and had a higher socioeconomic status.

Another time, I was at a barber shop and two employees were talking the whole time about a black man’s hair they wouldn’t cut because he was black. They said they told him they won’t cut his hair because they don’t know how to cut a black person’s hair, but then they told each that yeah they could cut his hair but told him that because they didn’t want a black person in their shop.

The one time I expected to be singled out and be reverse racism’d against was in a town that was over 90% black at a club. But everyone was as friendly as could be. A few people asked why I went there but were polite and friendly and I had a good time. And I was one of only two white people there at that club.

In Southeast Texas, it’s a combination of the type of racism you’ll see in Latin American and the American South type of racism.

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
I think it really hard to understand racism unless you know it is to be hated and your life threatened based solely on the color of your skin. It’s happened to me before but not nearly as often as many people have to endure. Until you experience this everything is hypothetical.[/quote]

EXACTLY.

[quote]overstand wrote:

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:

[quote]red04 wrote:

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
A black person is more likely to be discriminated against is NORMAL SOCIAL SITUATIONS.
[/quote]

This is where you are wrong. Being a minority in this country is a huge advantage. You get preferential treatment everywhere. You are acting like people are still going around hanging blacks from trees when for every Trayvon Martin murdered by a racist there are thousands and thousands of black people who get accepted to college, granted loans or given jobs over equally qualified white people simply because they were born with dark skin.

White people are sick of it, and we are sick of the victim mentality. We are sick of paying for mistakes that our great great great great grandfathers might have made, and we are sick of black people being compensated for crimes they themselves were never a victim of. The vast majority of educated, decent white people don’t have a single racist bone in their body. The percentage of truly racist people is a tiny, tiny fraction of white people as a whole. Quit acting like this is some epidemic when it’s not, it’s a very rare isolated case.

I didn’t even know what racism was until I was 8 or 9 years old. We played in the Texas state youth basketball tournament and an all black team called me a “white devil” and a “honkey”. Petty racism goes both ways buddy.

Google “critical race theory”, and then google its criticisms. I’m not going to hash it out here, but it is clear this is what you believe. Racism is a social construct created entirely in our minds, and by teaching black kids to go into situations expecting prejudice does nothing except perpetuate the ideas.

Also, acting like someone following you around a jewelry store is some huge racist injustice is a joke and Harriet Tubman would probably laugh in your face.

[/quote]

Slow your roll friend. I get where you’re coming from and yes things have changed to help balance job/college fairness, but you will never be able to tell me that racism is only the small 1% of people in America. When I was growing up in New York my brother and I had to hide from a KKK member who was walking around looking for trouble…hood over his head and an axe. More recently I’vee been spit at at a gas station in Florida. I’ve experienced racial injustice more than your “racist people are only a small minority” arguement suggests. Have I simply been that unfortunate to run into every racially charged person in America? I think not.

I agree with you that some people can take entitlement of benefits and such too far because of civil rights history but that is NOT the majority. If there was no affirmitive action type of law in businesses and schools employment and enrollment would still be prodominately white by a landslide. 100% truth.[/quote]

Your anecdotal story could just be countered by any other person’s anecdotal story.

I think your second paragraph isn’t as true as you’d like it to be either. Plenty of fields of society have shown us that left to their own tendencies, performance rules, and people will employ or admit that which serves them best.[/quote]

Deep Sigh I’m sorry but I have to disagree. Maybe…MAYBE…but it wouldve taken a hella of a long time…like 100 years…I’m not even kidding![/quote]

As red said, I’ve got stories too. The difference is I understand that the handful of racist blacks I’ve met are not indicative of the thousands of black people I’ve interacted with in my lifetime.

I never said racism was extinct, either.

Also, those jobs SHOULD BE predominantly white. Black people account for something like 10% of the population, yet they feel they are entitled to 50/50 representation. Obviously there are more than two races in the world, but you get my point.[/quote]

My Key sentence was “Prodominantly White by a LANDSLIDE” I’m not an idiot. I know there are way more whites in the population than blacks. (In America)

Heard the 911 call last night on the news. At one point Zimmerman is heard saying, “these fuckin’ coons” under his breath.

If THAT’S not racist, what is?

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Heard the 911 call last night on the news. At one point Zimmerman is heard saying, “these fuckin’ coons” under his breath.

If THAT’S not racist, what is?[/quote]

I don’t think anybody is arguing that point any more.