Black Teen Shot by Neighborhood Watch

Off Topic
461

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
Zimmerman is not white.[/quote]

He looks white enough to me.

[/quote]

Not racist at all.

[/quote]

Wow, dude…that’s called reality.

Racism has never had shit to do with WHAT YOU ARE. It has always had everything to do with WHAT YOU LOOK LIKE. If you are perceived as “white” by most of society, you will be treated as such…even if your entire family is from Cuba. Unless you have some outward expression of NOT being white like an accent or facial features, no one is going to be racist against you for not being white.

All Dark Ninja did in that response was acknowledge that.

The fact that not one person in this thread thought he was not white until that factoid came out confirms that.

What I do see in this thread is much justification for the actions of the shooter here…like the blatant decision by one poster that the kid was suspicious.

Another point…how the fuck can you tell what someone is looking at when they are wearing a hoody?

He stated he saw this kid “looking in houses”? Was he in their yards peering through windows? Because if not, he couldn’t have a clue what the kid was looking at.

And, you know, if my pockets are filled with tea and skittle, you know what happens? My pants may start falling down. If I can get shot now for adjusting my waist band or digging in my pockets, something is dead wrong.

462

It is absolutely mind boggling how people can justify this dude’s actions! He was not a cop…he should not have pursued the kid. The cops were well on their way he should have kept an eye on him from a distance until the cops arrived.

There is no doubt in my mind that there are posters here in Tnation land who would’nt bat an eyelash on giving this dude props for what he did. I just know they are out there. Because there are people agreeing and siding with this man as we speak.

464

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
It is absolutely mind boggling how people can justify this dude’s actions! He was not a cop…he should not have pursued the kid. The cops were well on their way he should have kept an eye on him from a distance until the cops arrived.

There is no doubt in my mind that there are posters here in Tnation land who would’nt bat an eyelash on giving this dude props for what he did. I just know they are out there. Because there are people agreeing and siding with this man as we speak.[/quote]

Your reading comprehension is weak sauce.

Who the fuck is “siding” with Zimmerman? Who is “justifying” his killing of Martin?

The point that was being made from the very start was to call out the reflexive catcalls of racism that weren’t grounded in any sort of factual reality.

Find me someone who has been arguing Zimmerman didn’t fuck up. Please.

465

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
So am I expected to be subjective, give the benefit of the doubt and shut my mouth when I see unfairness? Kiss my fucking black ass.

This is Emett Till all over again. I mean, civil right activists fought their ass off so this this kinda of shit stop happening. 2012, a black kid is killed and his murderer is walking free.

The day a black man is not arrested on the spot after murdering a white person because the police trust him, based on his ‘‘history’’ – even though he was arrested for beating the shit out of cop – and for being a criminal student, or for his apparent ‘‘connections’’, the day that will happen in America, then damn right, I’d be willing to give the police and the murderer the benefit of the doubt. [/quote]

This comment is so far removed from ANYONE’S definition of rational thought that it’s simply embarrassing for me to know that you actually consider it to be a legitimate perspective on the matter.

You aren’t expected to be “subjective” – that’s what sparked this debate in the first place. People making knee-jerk emotional responses and then spending pages trying to justify it by retrofitting their position with what they consider logic.

Emmett Till also has no bearing on this matter, except for people like you who are “subjectively” categorizing this as a vicious, heartless, barbaric hate crime. But, please, feel free to entertain us all giving us your “subjective” rationale as to how a mentally unstable neighborhood watch captain shooting a unarmed adolescent in the heat of an altercation is somehow analogous to the sociopathic torture, mutilation and killing of Till.

Also, where did you get the idea that Zimmerman “beat the shit out of a cop”? The assault charge… that was dropped?

How easy do you think “white” people have it in this country??

466

Most amusing part of this thread?

It’s not even so much that one isn’t able to argue the possibility of ANY OTHER possible motivating factor besides a pathological racist streak… it’s that one can’t even suggest that we don’t even have all the fucking facts to make a definitive determination without batshit crazy loons coming out of the woodwork to paint anyone who doesn’t fall in line with the race angle as KKK sympathizers who are planning on buying ol’ Zimmy boy a cold one the second the charges are dropped.

Seriously… funny as hell that the people who aren’t so much trying to look at alternatives to racism as they are admitting we don’t have all the facts in are the ones being pegged as being the most obsessed with race. You know, by the same people who have been intellectually lock-jawed on that angle since page one. You know, by the same people who are actually arguing that they are only trying to trivialize the race angle so that they can get away with racist shit in the future.

What’s just getting old, however, is having to point out time and again where these haters are so zealous in their accusations that their reading comprehension fails miserably.

Stellar thread, chaps.

467

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:
The whole zim tape:

Now more information is coming out it is becoming a little bit clearer what happened. One thing I noticed is when the 911 operator asked Zimmerman if he was following Martin and Zimmerman answered yes, all the operator said is “you don’t need to do that”. That does not sound like an implicit command not to follow Martin. So the stand your ground law that the police released a copy of to the press probably does apply to protect Zimmerman.

The other thing I noticed is from what Zimmerman said it sounds like he was apprehensive of Martin. He said Martin was clutching at his waistband of his pants. Now we only have Zimmerman’s word for it, whatever that is worth. However the self defense laws do have to take into account what Zimmerman said his perceived level of threat was at that time.

That tape does make it a little clearer why there has been no charges so far. What I would like to find out next is how Zimmerman says the fight started and how it progressed. [/quote]

He was apprehensive of Martin?

So he chased the kid AFTER the kid walked to the car to see why a guy was following him got scared and RAN (ZIMM’s own words). He was so apprehensive of Martin that at some point he left his car to approach the KID.

This is A HUNT!

Oh and can someone tell me what is touching or clutching your waist band? Is this code for something or should I not tug at my pants while I walk?

Guys this is just to thin. Really. It’s guys like this that make it hard for people like me a CCW permit gun collector who does carry.

He hunted a kid knowing he could kill the kid. He put himself in harms way.

And don’t get me wrong I don’t think Zimmerman will see one second of jail time.

468

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
The only thing that irritates me in this discussion is the fact that it has gone beyond the incident to say that racism is ONLY A WHITE PROBLEM. It is most certainly not.[/quote]

I acknowledge racism is not only a white problem. I acknowledge black on white, white on black, Asians/latinos on whites/blacks and black/whites on latinos/Asian racism exist. I have witnessed those and they are all wrong. I don’t condone that shit.

I’ve been to a Black Panther museum and even though those guys were fighting for an obvious cause, trust me, as a black person, I felt sick to the core reading the material they wrote about white people. I’ve been brought up to be tolerant of all races and not judge. However what I despise is unfairness. And I hate racists, blacks, whites, yellow, reds or blues. I’m still laughing at some posters in this thread that had called me ignorant or racist for pointing out racism when I see it. Hey, I’m supposed to shut up and be level headed. I should not complain about injustice. Fuck’ em.

We’re not talking about blacks beating the shit out of a whites or vice versa. We’re talking about the murder of a kid and his killer not being arrested. That murder wouldn’t have happened if the killer hadn’t acted on his racial stereotypes.

All I’ve been mostly pointing out in this thread is the double standard. All I ask is fairness for all races. We want to see each other as one human race, right? Cool. But as long as sad situations such like these happen, how do you expect race relations to improve? Shall we always shush and brush everything under the carpet?

A kid is dead. And why? Because the colour of his skin pushed a man to suspect him of being up to no good. And what had happened to that man? He was let go with a slap on the back. At least arrest the fucker and if you like, release him on bail later. John White, anyone? His black ass was in a cell the same night he shot a white teen dead.

A black man would be in jail right now, guilty until proven innocent. This kind of scenario still prevails nowadays, and for those who want to convince me otherwise, well, they’re in fucking denial.

469

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
Zimmerman is not white.[/quote]

He looks white enough to me.

[/quote]

Not racist at all.

[/quote]

He looks white enough for the police to let him get away with murder.

470

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Racism has never had shit to do with WHAT YOU ARE. It has always had everything to do with WHAT YOU LOOK LIKE. If you are perceived as “white” by most of society, you will be treated as such…even if your entire family is from Cuba. Unless you have some outward expression of NOT being white like an accent or facial features, no one is going to be racist against you for not being white.
[/quote]

Bingo

471

[quote]four60 wrote:

This is A HUNT!

[/quote]

You know, this really made very sad. You can even hear Trayvon scream in one of the 911 tapes.

Heartbreaking.

472

Will somebody please prove Zimmerman’s intent? Like actual proof and not assumed bullshit?

473

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
The only thing that irritates me in this discussion is the fact that it has gone beyond the incident to say that racism is ONLY A WHITE PROBLEM. It is most certainly not.[/quote]

I acknowledge racism is not only a white problem. I acknowledge black on white, white on black, Asians/latinos on whites/blacks and black/whites on latinos/Asian racism exist. I have witnessed those and they are all wrong. I don’t condone that shit.

I’ve been to a Black Panther museum and even though those guys were fighting for an obvious cause, trust me, as a black person, I felt sick to the core reading the material they wrote about white people. I’ve been brought up to be tolerant of all races and not judge. However what I despise is unfairness. And I hate racists, blacks, whites, yellow, reds or blues. I’m still laughing at some posters in this thread that had called me ignorant or racist for pointing out racism when I see it. Hey, I’m supposed to shut up and be level headed. I should not complain about injustice. Fuck’ em.

We’re not talking about blacks beating the shit out of a whites or vice versa. We’re talking about the murder of a kid and his killer not being arrested. That murder wouldn’t have happened if the killer hadn’t acted on his racial stereotypes.

All I’ve been mostly pointing out in this thread is the double standard. All I ask is fairness for all races. We want to see each other as one human race, right? Cool. But as long as sad situations such like these happen, how do you expect race relations to improve? Shall we always shush and brush everything under the carpet?

A kid is dead. And why? Because the colour of his skin pushed a man to suspect him of being up to no good. And what had happened to that man? He was let go with a slap on the back. At least arrest the fucker and if you like, release him on bail later. John White, anyone? His black ass was in a cell the same night he shot a white teen dead.

A black man would be in jail right now, guilty until proven innocent. This kind of scenario still prevails nowadays, and for those who want to convince me otherwise, well, they’re in fucking denial.
[/quote]

Well said.

474

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Will somebody please prove Zimmerman’s intent? Like actual proof and not assumed bullshit?[/quote]

Innocent dead kid with no priors or weapons.

YOU tell ME.

475

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
The only thing that irritates me in this discussion is the fact that it has gone beyond the incident to say that racism is ONLY A WHITE PROBLEM. It is most certainly not.[/quote]

I acknowledge racism is not only a white problem. I acknowledge black on white, white on black, Asians/latinos on whites/blacks and black/whites on latinos/Asian racism exist. I have witnessed those and they are all wrong. I don’t condone that shit.

I’ve been to a Black Panther museum and even though those guys were fighting for an obvious cause, trust me, as a black person, I felt sick to the core reading the material they wrote about white people. I’ve been brought up to be tolerant of all races and not judge. However what I despise is unfairness. And I hate racists, blacks, whites, yellow, reds or blues. I’m still laughing at some posters in this thread that had called me ignorant or racist for pointing out racism when I see it. Hey, I’m supposed to shut up and be level headed. I should not complain about injustice. Fuck’ em.

We’re not talking about blacks beating the shit out of a whites or vice versa. We’re talking about the murder of a kid and his killer not being arrested. That murder wouldn’t have happened if the killer hadn’t acted on his racial stereotypes.

All I’ve been mostly pointing out in this thread is the double standard. All I ask is fairness for all races. We want to see each other as one human race, right? Cool. But as long as sad situations such like these happen, how do you expect race relations to improve? Shall we always shush and brush everything under the carpet?

A kid is dead. And why? Because the colour of his skin pushed a man to suspect him of being up to no good. And what had happened to that man? He was let go with a slap on the back. At least arrest the fucker and if you like, release him on bail later. John White, anyone? His black ass was in a cell the same night he shot a white teen dead.

A black man would be in jail right now, guilty until proven innocent. This kind of scenario still prevails nowadays, and for those who want to convince me otherwise, well, they’re in fucking denial.
[/quote]

All I’m asking is for you to prove your racism allegations as opposed to automatically assuming racism because of… a shooters race.

476

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Will somebody please prove Zimmerman’s intent? Like actual proof and not assumed bullshit?[/quote]

Innocent dead kid with no priors or weapons.

YOU tell ME.[/quote]
You don’t need weapons to give the perception of a threat and unless zimmerman has X-ray vision, his perception was all he had to go by. Considering the context of the thread topics already discussed as well as new allegations surrounding the shooting brought to light, Zimmerman sounds more and more in his rights as a state licensed concealed carry citizen on alert.

Regardless of whether or not the kid was guilty of something, his death is sad but quite possibly legally justified. What we still don’t know are the actual facts as opposed to jumped conclusions.

477

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Will somebody please prove Zimmerman’s intent? Like actual proof and not assumed bullshit?[/quote]

Dude, you are barking up the wrong tree. This has nothing to do with a lack of actual evidence or anything like that. It is about race and that is all it has been about apparently. Suggesting otherwise is racist. The simple fact is that the 911 tapes didn’t provide a much evidence either way and there were no witnesses who saw or heard how the fight started or saw what happened when the shot/shots were fired. That is the reason why Zimmerman has not been arrested. Should he have been taken into custody the night of the shooting? Maybe, but the cops would have known from the evidence they had that they would not be able to hold him so it wouldn’t really have mattered. He would have been free soon and much less willing to cooperate. I mean just look at all the media coverage this is getting, as well as the protests, phone calls, e-mails, and lobbying that the police are getting. Do you really think they would endure all that just to not arrest Zimmerman? No, that would make no sense and would require a relatively massive conspiracy encompassing the entire upper chain of command, the state internal affairs division, the DA’s office, maybe even all the way to the governor. Besides, all the attorneys in the state will be watching this very carefully and any hint of misconduct will result in massive lawsuits and investigations.

EDIT: My position on Zimmerman still hasn’t changed. I still think his actions were reprehensible and I consider what happened murder. I am just acknowledging that the law will probably not see it that way and the inability of the police and the DA to do anything about it is more evidence of flaws with the legal system than a massive racist conspiracy encompassing the state of Florida.

478

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
So am I expected to be subjective, give the benefit of the doubt and shut my mouth when I see unfairness? Kiss my fucking black ass.

This is Emett Till all over again. I mean, civil right activists fought their ass off so this this kinda of shit stop happening. 2012, a black kid is killed and his murderer is walking free.

The day a black man is not arrested on the spot after murdering a white person because the police trust him, based on his ‘‘history’’ – even though he was arrested for beating the shit out of cop – and for being a criminal student, or for his apparent ‘‘connections’’, the day that will happen in America, then damn right, I’d be willing to give the police and the murderer the benefit of the doubt. [/quote]

This comment is so far removed from ANYONE’S definition of rational thought that it’s simply embarrassing for me to know that you actually consider it to be a legitimate perspective on the matter.

You aren’t expected to be “subjective” – that’s what sparked this debate in the first place. People making knee-jerk emotional responses and then spending pages trying to justify it by retrofitting their position with what they consider logic.

Emmett Till also has no bearing on this matter, except for people like you who are “subjectively” categorizing this as a vicious, heartless, barbaric hate crime. But, please, feel free to entertain us all giving us your “subjective” rationale as to how a mentally unstable neighborhood watch captain shooting a unarmed adolescent in the heat of an altercation is somehow analogous to the sociopathic torture, mutilation and killing of Till.

Also, where did you get the idea that Zimmerman “beat the shit out of a cop”? The assault charge… that was dropped?

How easy do you think “white” people have it in this country??[/quote]
I’d say we have it easy.

I routinely walk in to police departments with a backpack full of cocaine on my back, dead hooker scalps on my belt, stolen merchandise in my pockets and I find the biggest cop I can, punch him in the face, strip naked and streak the department to my hearts delight until we are all tuckered out from the chase.

Once we catch our breath and I’m dressed again, I get back slaps, guffaws and “Good thing you ain’t black, son or we would have to arrest you. You get on out of here now and be safe, see you next weekend”. Hell I think jails are a myth.

Also, I present OJ Simpson to the jury. Yeah, I went there.

479

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
Zimmerman is not white.[/quote]

He looks white enough to me.

[/quote]

Not racist at all.

[/quote]

Wow, dude…that’s called reality.

Racism has never had shit to do with WHAT YOU ARE. It has always had everything to do with WHAT YOU LOOK LIKE. If you are perceived as “white” by most of society, you will be treated as such…even if your entire family is from Cuba. Unless you have some outward expression of NOT being white like an accent or facial features, no one is going to be racist against you for not being white.

All Dark Ninja did in that response was acknowledge that.

The fact that not one person in this thread thought he was not white until that factoid came out confirms that.

What I do see in this thread is much justification for the actions of the shooter here…like the blatant decision by one poster that the kid was suspicious.

Another point…how the fuck can you tell what someone is looking at when they are wearing a hoody?

He stated he saw this kid “looking in houses”? Was he in their yards peering through windows? Because if not, he couldn’t have a clue what the kid was looking at.

And, you know, if my pockets are filled with tea and skittle, you know what happens? My pants may start falling down. If I can get shot now for adjusting my waist band or digging in my pockets, something is dead wrong.[/quote]

And all I’m saying after that block of text that re-stated everything you have already said in this thread…is, maybe that guy was a racist…maybe he was not. But just like that violence at the McDonalds that you defended where the girls jumped the counter… NOBODY KNOWS EXACTLY EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED.

Look man, I know that if I disagree with you I am obviously racist and WRONG, which I’m sure IronDwarf will chime in here shortly…but seriously, you act like racism is not as prevalent with EVERY race (cue your ?? here).

The dude was NOT WHITE, so every time you, DN or ID said white racist…it was YOU BEING RACIST. You assumed…and don’t give me that shit about being light skinned latino…really?

Shocking you cannot see that…or maybe I just heard “little white fucker” before I got jumped to many times growing up…

480

Also, when I applied to college and realized I’d have competition and would have to write a silly essay explaining why I was a likely candidate, I just picked up the phone instead.

It went like this:

“Hello, admissions? This is applicant HG, I’m filling out my application but before I write that pesky essay, I want you to know I’m white.”

The administrator had a pretty good laugh and said “Didn’t you know? White people have everything handed to them. Here is your student number, log in and pick your classes. Oh, and tuition is free for whites. See you at orientation.”

As a matter of fact, everything I own I got for free, from shoes to homes just by checking that little race box labeled White/Non-Latino.

Actually, when “buying” my first house, I told the bank that I am not only white but of Northern European decent, the stuff Nazi dreams are made of.

The banker chuckled, tore up the contract, gave me the deed AND a $10k gift “just because.”