[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
“Hands in his waist”?
Isn’t that like… HAVING YOUR HANDS IN YOUR POCKETS?!
Oh, the threat![/quote]
Also. ALSO! He had his hood up!.. even though it was raining but that is beside the point.
[quote]Swolegasm wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
“Hands in his waist”?
Isn’t that like… HAVING YOUR HANDS IN YOUR POCKETS?!
Oh, the threat![/quote]
Also. ALSO! He had his hood up!.. even though it was raining but that is beside the point. [/quote]
LOL!
Sorry to laugh, but that got me!
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
I never suggested otherwise, but it was not the kid’s house or his father’s house. We have no idea how familiar Zimmerman would have been with the kid so he likely didn’t recognize him. I am not saying that people do not have the right to be on public streets. I am saying that given the recent crimes, suspicions are naturally going to be high.
[/quote]
Zimmerman didn’t need a fucking daily update because no one should have been at risk of DYING for walking home.
I don’t because that is how I act. I don’t walk fast most of the time. I may go walking in my neighborhood at times. Not one aspect of this is suspicious. Not one thing you wrote has been suspicious as far as this kid UNLESS YOU WANTED TO FIND SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY and are labeling any action as such.
[quote].
We don’t know that the car was suspicious.[/quote]
What? How do you claim to know this kid was suspicious but a roving car following black people in the rain isn’t?
Are you fucking serious?
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Man X you nailed it on the head[/quote]
Not really.
Anyone who holds a position opposite to his is just oblivious to the world around them.
[/quote]
Please guy…I have agreed and disagreed with X on many points. Saying I’m oblivious to the rest of the world just cuz I agree with a point is closed minded.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
“Hands in his waist”?
Isn’t that like… HAVING YOUR HANDS IN YOUR POCKETS?!
Oh, the threat![/quote]
Yes, and looking at it in hindsight, that is probably exactly what it was. Now, look at his behavior from the point of view of someone living in a neighborhood that is experiencing a series of crimes. If your neighborhood was experiencing a series of crimes, wouldn’t you be extra cautious and suspicious of things that you would not normally notice? I would ,and it has already been noted that Zimmerman is not entirely rational, but last time I checked, being irrational and suspicious does not make someone a racist. It does make one a poor and dangerous choice to lead a neighborhood watch and carry a weapon.
Has anyone acknowledged yet how terrible the younger brother must feel for asking his brother to run to the store to grab him some candy/skittles?
911 tape shows George Zimmerman lamenting that the ?a–holes always get away.?
An attorney for Trayvon Martin?s parents said the 911 tapes were ?amazing.?
The Martin family (relatives of Trayvon Martin, the Miami teen who was killed by a neighborhood watch captain in Sanford) came to the Miami Herald newsroom for an interview on March 15, 2012.
MIAMI HERALD STAFF
The Martin family remembers Trayvon
SANFORD – SANFORD The 911 tapes released by police Friday show neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman called in with a problem: there had been a few break-ins lately, and now there was another suspicious guy in his Retreats at Twin Lakes neighborhood.
He looked like he might be on drugs and ?up to no good.?
?It?s raining. He?s just walking around, looking about,? Zimmerman told the dispatcher. ?He?s just staring looking at all the houses.?
Later, he lamented: ?These a**holes always get away.?
Zimmerman is the neighborhood watch volunteer in the Central Florida town of Sanford who on Feb. 26 shot and killed Miami Gardens teenager Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman claimed the teen started an altercation, and then – in fear for his life – Zimmerman pulled a weapon from his waistband and fired. He has not been charged.
Family members and attorneys believe the Sanford Police has bent over backward to protect Zimmerman out of a sense of kinship for a man who had devoted his spare time to law enforcement.
In an interview this week with the Miami Herald, Police Chief Bill Lee said the 911 calls would prove the incident was not a case of racial profiling, because when asked whether the suspect was white or black, Zimmerman did not know. However the recording clearly shows that when asked, Zimmerman said, ?He looks black.? And then a few moments later, ?He?s a black male.?
His family filed a lawsuit to force the Sanford Police Department to release the 911 tapes to clarify the murky circumstances. A hearing had been scheduled for Monday, and in the face of mounting national pressure the Sanford Police decided to release the tapes late Friday. They first allowed the slain teen?s family and attorneys to listen.
According to the recordings posted on the city?s website, Zimmerman was perturbed because Trayvon looked a bit out of sorts. Other callers reported hearing someone calling for help and then a blast that silenced the wailing. One call, so close that the cryies for help could be heard, contains two sounds, first a muted bang that family attorneys believe was a warning shot, then the louder crack of close-range gunfire.
The first call came from Zimmerman.
?He?s just looking at all the houses,? Zimmerman said. ?Now he?s just staring at me.?
Then Zimmerman said the suspicious person, who appeared to be black and in his late teens, had his hand in his waist band. ?Something?s wrong with him. He?s coming to check me out.?
As he narrates where the man was headed, the dispatcher asks, ?are you following him??
?Yeah,? Zimmerman said.
?We don?t need you to do that.?
Trayvon, 17, had gone to the store for a walk when he encountered Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer who was on a mission to put a stop to burglaries.
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
[quote]four60 wrote:
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
He described his behavior, which does sound suspicious.
[/quote]
How? He’s a kid. If they were nice houses, that didn’t used to be a crime to walk down YOUR OWN STREET OR YOUR DAD’S looking at houses. If he noticed someone following him or saw a SUSPICIOUS FOLLOWING CAR and approached the vehicle, that again isn’t suspicious.
The jackass that was suspicious was the snooping white guy lying low in a possible unmarked car following people AT NIGHT.
LOl.[/quote]
-
It was not his own street. Trayvon and his father were over at his father’s girlfriend’s house to watch some sporting event.
-
He wasn’t taking a stroll down the street on a bright sunny day, he was walking “slowly” (whatever that means) down the street in the rain at night looking into people’s houses with his hand tucked into his waist. That sounds suspicious to me, and go ahead and call me racist if you want for thinking that.
-
It was reported that Zimmerman started following Trayvon AFTER he approached his vehicle and started to flee. This doesn’t add up to me either, but you seem to think that he was following Trayvon for some time. That is not what has been reported.
All in all, I think that Trayvon’s actions warranted reporting. They did not warrant Zimmerman chasing him down, forcing a confrontation, and ultimately killing the kid. There is no evidence that Zimmerman was a racist and that was why he killed Trayvon. The evidence seems to show that Zimmerman was an unstable and aggressive man who was most likely frustrated over the crimes committed in his neighborhood. He was overly paranoid and saw someone who he thought was acting suspiciously. He called 911 and didn’t follow instructions because of his own ego and arrogance/hero complex. The man acted horribly and deserves to go to jail, but none of this points to racism. I have already said several times what I think the main issue is, so I won’t repeat myself. Whether the law as it stands may not allow that to happen, which is a tragedy.
If looking at things this way makes me a racist, then I guess I am a racist.[/quote]
With all due respect. You are adding to the story. REALLY. Unless you found items not on the links you sent. But everyone else seems to be adding to the story to make the killing seem more reasonable why not you.[/quote]
What am I adding?
[/quote]
“He wasn’t taking a stroll down the street during a bright sunny day, he was walking at night in the rain looking into peoples homes”
What is that man. You almost make it sound like the kid was up on people windows in the pouring rain. Looking at a house and in a house is A BIG difernce.
You also talk about how this Zim was following the kid after the kid noticed him. ahahahah COME on
I don’t think you are trying to lean this any way I really think you want a this to be a fair conversation… BUT YOU ARE ADDING TO THE ZIMM STORY IN HIS FAVOR.
Or how terrible his dad must feel for not giving his son a ride to the store instead of him walking?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
What? How do you claim to know this kid was suspicious but a roving car following black people in the rain isn’t?
Are you fucking serious?
[/quote]
The 911 call and reports state that Zimmerman was not following Trayvon until after he approached the car and ran away. These may or may not be true, since it was Zimmerman’s word, but there is no indication otherwise which makes this pure conjecture. If Zimmerman was following the kid in an unmarked car, he definitely should have run. If it were me, I would have done the same. Well, I would have called the cops first, but I think it was reported that the kid did not have a phone on him. I wouldn’t have approached the car though, I would have just fled.
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
What? How do you claim to know this kid was suspicious but a roving car following black people in the rain isn’t?
Are you fucking serious?
[/quote]
The 911 call and reports state that Zimmerman was not following Trayvon until after he approached the car and ran away. These may or may not be true, since it was Zimmerman’s word, but there is no indication otherwise which makes this pure conjecture. If Zimmerman was following the kid in an unmarked car, he definitely should have run. If it were me, I would have done the same. Well, I would have called the cops first, but I think it was reported that the kid did not have a phone on him. I wouldn’t have approached the car though, I would have just fled.
[/quote]
Did you listen to the call Zimmerman is talking to 911 before he even makes the statement that the kid sees me and is coming to check me out. How are you already on the phone with 911 about a kid if you have not started following him???
[quote]four60 wrote:
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
[quote]four60 wrote:
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
He described his behavior, which does sound suspicious.
[/quote]
How? He’s a kid. If they were nice houses, that didn’t used to be a crime to walk down YOUR OWN STREET OR YOUR DAD’S looking at houses. If he noticed someone following him or saw a SUSPICIOUS FOLLOWING CAR and approached the vehicle, that again isn’t suspicious.
The jackass that was suspicious was the snooping white guy lying low in a possible unmarked car following people AT NIGHT.
LOl.[/quote]
-
It was not his own street. Trayvon and his father were over at his father’s girlfriend’s house to watch some sporting event.
-
He wasn’t taking a stroll down the street on a bright sunny day, he was walking “slowly” (whatever that means) down the street in the rain at night looking into people’s houses with his hand tucked into his waist. That sounds suspicious to me, and go ahead and call me racist if you want for thinking that.
-
It was reported that Zimmerman started following Trayvon AFTER he approached his vehicle and started to flee. This doesn’t add up to me either, but you seem to think that he was following Trayvon for some time. That is not what has been reported.
All in all, I think that Trayvon’s actions warranted reporting. They did not warrant Zimmerman chasing him down, forcing a confrontation, and ultimately killing the kid. There is no evidence that Zimmerman was a racist and that was why he killed Trayvon. The evidence seems to show that Zimmerman was an unstable and aggressive man who was most likely frustrated over the crimes committed in his neighborhood. He was overly paranoid and saw someone who he thought was acting suspiciously. He called 911 and didn’t follow instructions because of his own ego and arrogance/hero complex. The man acted horribly and deserves to go to jail, but none of this points to racism. I have already said several times what I think the main issue is, so I won’t repeat myself. Whether the law as it stands may not allow that to happen, which is a tragedy.
If looking at things this way makes me a racist, then I guess I am a racist.[/quote]
With all due respect. You are adding to the story. REALLY. Unless you found items not on the links you sent. But everyone else seems to be adding to the story to make the killing seem more reasonable why not you.[/quote]
What am I adding?
[/quote]
“He wasn’t taking a stroll down the street during a bright sunny day, he was walking at night in the rain looking into peoples homes”
What is that man. You almost make it sound like the kid was up on people windows in the pouring rain. Looking at a house and in a house is A BIG difernce.
You also talk about how this Zim was following the kid after the kid noticed him. ahahahah COME on
I don’t think you are trying to lean this any way I really think you want a this to be a fair conversation… BUT YOU ARE ADDING TO THE ZIMM STORY IN HIS FAVOR.[/quote]
I have not added anything, but the reports are not all consistent. Some have Zimmerman saying he was “looking at” and some say “looking into”. I have included both in an effort to be objective since there is a big difference between looking at a house and looking into it. And the following the kid after he ran was what was reported I have already said we only have his word since there are no witnesses at this point of the events.
The whole zim tape:
[quote]four60 wrote:
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
What? How do you claim to know this kid was suspicious but a roving car following black people in the rain isn’t?
Are you fucking serious?
[/quote]
The 911 call and reports state that Zimmerman was not following Trayvon until after he approached the car and ran away. These may or may not be true, since it was Zimmerman’s word, but there is no indication otherwise which makes this pure conjecture. If Zimmerman was following the kid in an unmarked car, he definitely should have run. If it were me, I would have done the same. Well, I would have called the cops first, but I think it was reported that the kid did not have a phone on him. I wouldn’t have approached the car though, I would have just fled.
[/quote]
Did you listen to the call Zimmerman is talking to 911 before he even makes the statement that the kid sees me and is coming to check me out. How are you already on the phone with 911 about a kid if you have not started following him???[/quote]
He could have been parked on the side of the street and seen the kid, he could have been driving down street and seen him and pulled over (obviously he pulled over and stopped at some point, whether it was before or after the 911 call is not clear), or he could have been following the kid and lied about it. There are no witnesses at this point so we will never know.
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
[quote]four60 wrote:
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
What? How do you claim to know this kid was suspicious but a roving car following black people in the rain isn’t?
Are you fucking serious?
[/quote]
The 911 call and reports state that Zimmerman was not following Trayvon until after he approached the car and ran away. These may or may not be true, since it was Zimmerman’s word, but there is no indication otherwise which makes this pure conjecture. If Zimmerman was following the kid in an unmarked car, he definitely should have run. If it were me, I would have done the same. Well, I would have called the cops first, but I think it was reported that the kid did not have a phone on him. I wouldn’t have approached the car though, I would have just fled.
[/quote]
Did you listen to the call Zimmerman is talking to 911 before he even makes the statement that the kid sees me and is coming to check me out. How are you already on the phone with 911 about a kid if you have not started following him???[/quote]
He could have been parked on the side of the street and seen the kid, he could have been driving down street and seen him and pulled over (obviously he pulled over and stopped at some point, whether it was before or after the 911 call is not clear), or he could have been following the kid and lied about it. There are no witnesses at this point so we will never know.
[/quote]
Once again, listen to the tape if you can. I added the actual first 911 call by zim. SOMETIMES depending on if you use an ipad or something else the video does not show up but its up.
[quote]four60 wrote:
Once again, listen to the tape if you can. I added the actual first 911 call by zim. SOMETIMES depending on if you use an ipad or something else the video does not show up but its up.[/quote]
Yeah, I just listened to it. It is not clear if he is inside or outside his vehicle, but it sounds like there is a car door opening and closing at around 1:40, maybe a little later. That is for the analysts to figure out. He never says when he started following the kid, though. If I had to guess, I would agree with you and Professor X that he was either following the kid before the call or was acting in a way to raise the kid’s suspicions, but I can’t really tell, and all we have is Zimmerman’s word, and he will likely say he wasn’t following the kid until he ran.
Just on my side and this may sound bias. But a kid was HUNTED because he was acting like a kid. Walking looking around. Hell I use to rap to myself or sing Luther songs when I was alone.
Hunted for being a Kid and walking in the rain from the store back to a house with skittles and ice tea.
Thats what he was. The shooter seen something else.
Absolutely. Poor kid was just going back home to watch the game with his family with candy and tea in tote.
[quote]four60 wrote:
Just on my side and this may sound bias. But a kid was HUNTED because he was acting like a kid. Walking looking around. Hell I use to rap to myself or sing Luther songs when I was alone.
Hunted for being a Kid and walking in the rain from the store back to a house with skittles and ice tea.
Thats what he was. The shooter seen something else.[/quote]
Man, I don’t disagree with you at all. Zimmerman desperately WANTED this to be something. He was an overly aggressive and unstable man who had no business being captain of a neighborhood watch OR carrying a concealed weapon. I do think he deserves to go to jail for the rest of his life for this crime. My only problem with this thread has been the assumption that he did this because he was racist. My reading of the events involved have led me to the conclusion that the recent crime spree led him to be way too suspicious and angry at himself for not being able to stop the crimes. When he saw this kid, he projected his suspicions onto the kid and forced a confrontation. It is horrible, but I don’t think any of it was because of racism, and at the end of the day, he murdered an innocent kid.