Black Teen Shot by Neighborhood Watch

Off Topic
341

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]anonym wrote:
Trayvon Martin: Woman gave ‘inconsistent’ statement on TV, Sanford PD says

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/seminole/os-trayvon-martin-witness-tv-report-20120315,0,559932.story

Derp.[/quote]

There are four videos attached to this link. The third one is an interview with a neighbor that gives some very important background on the recent history of that neighborhood. Apparently the gated community wasn’t as secure as one might think it would be.

In the weeks leading up to the shooting, Zimmerman had spotted someone casing an open window to the interviewee condo while he was out and called the police. There had been a B&E on another condo with three youths arrested and there had been another break in next door.

I won’t spoil the punchline by telling you the race of the perps and suspects you need to watch the video for yourselves. But it does cast a very different light on the case from what has been in the media.

Then there is the woman who gave police inconsistent statements, but also told them things that were consistent with what Zimmerman had told them.

[/quote]

And what does this change about the Kid?[/quote]

I think you are missing the point. There was a chain of events that lead up to the fateful moment the kid was shot. He was a victim of circumstances that he probably wasn’t even aware of. How he handled his encounter with Zimmerman is something that has not been revealed in all of this back and forth, but it would probably explain a lot.

To me it is beginning to sound like the kid walked into the middle of a situation that had been going on for a while, that he knew nothing about and maybe he said or did some things that didn’t serve him well. [/quote]

Or maybe, as I stated much earlier, Zimmerman in his haste to “not let another one get away” took the law into his own itchy trigger-finger hands.

342

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]anonym wrote:
Trayvon Martin: Woman gave ‘inconsistent’ statement on TV, Sanford PD says

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/seminole/os-trayvon-martin-witness-tv-report-20120315,0,559932.story

Derp.[/quote]

There are four videos attached to this link. The third one is an interview with a neighbor that gives some very important background on the recent history of that neighborhood. Apparently the gated community wasn’t as secure as one might think it would be.

In the weeks leading up to the shooting, Zimmerman had spotted someone casing an open window to the interviewee condo while he was out and called the police. There had been a B&E on another condo with three youths arrested and there had been another break in next door.

I won’t spoil the punchline by telling you the race of the perps and suspects you need to watch the video for yourselves. But it does cast a very different light on the case from what has been in the media.

Then there is the woman who gave police inconsistent statements, but also told them things that were consistent with what Zimmerman had told them.

[/quote]

And what does this change about the Kid?[/quote]

I think you are missing the point. There was a chain of events that lead up to the fateful moment the kid was shot. He was a victim of circumstances that he probably wasn’t even aware of. How he handled his encounter with Zimmerman is something that has not been revealed in all of this back and forth, but it would probably explain a lot.

To me it is beginning to sound like the kid walked into the middle of a situation that had been going on for a while, that he knew nothing about and maybe he said or did some things that didn’t serve him well. [/quote]

Sifu, there is always a chain of events that lead up to things like this. That first video was no better than any other that try to make Zimmerman a Klansman or a Rambo. This along with Hate Crime laws is nothing more than a Cloud.

Look at all the time being spent from intelligent people trying to prove what that man is or was. Does it matter if he was a frustrated home owner who decided to play a little cop and fight crime does that make it less of a crime than if He had hate in his heart for a certain group of people.

Both put him in front of a kid that he shot.

This is just to sad. This is who we are now?

A kid is Killed and from all reports he was just a kid not a crook, not a black panther just a Kid.

And all we can focus on was did Zim track him down because he was racist or because he was frustrated.

Does it matter.

343

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]anonym wrote:
Trayvon Martin: Woman gave ‘inconsistent’ statement on TV, Sanford PD says

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/seminole/os-trayvon-martin-witness-tv-report-20120315,0,559932.story

Derp.[/quote]

There are four videos attached to this link. The third one is an interview with a neighbor that gives some very important background on the recent history of that neighborhood. Apparently the gated community wasn’t as secure as one might think it would be.

In the weeks leading up to the shooting, Zimmerman had spotted someone casing an open window to the interviewee condo while he was out and called the police. There had been a B&E on another condo with three youths arrested and there had been another break in next door.

I won’t spoil the punchline by telling you the race of the perps and suspects you need to watch the video for yourselves. But it does cast a very different light on the case from what has been in the media.

Then there is the woman who gave police inconsistent statements, but also told them things that were consistent with what Zimmerman had told them.

[/quote]

And what does this change about the Kid?[/quote]

I think you are missing the point. There was a chain of events that lead up to the fateful moment the kid was shot. He was a victim of circumstances that he probably wasn’t even aware of. How he handled his encounter with Zimmerman is something that has not been revealed in all of this back and forth, but it would probably explain a lot.

To me it is beginning to sound like the kid walked into the middle of a situation that had been going on for a while, that he knew nothing about and maybe he said or did some things that didn’t serve him well. [/quote]

Or maybe, as I stated much earlier, Zimmerman in his haste to “not let another one get away” took the law into his own itchy trigger-finger hands.[/quote]

And then the police became his accomplices?

344

2 words: Street Justice.

345

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
2 words: Street Justice.[/quote]

Vigilantism begets vigilantism.

346

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
2 words: Street Justice.[/quote]

Vigilantism begets vigilantism.
[/quote]

And the police have chosen to become an accomplice? Really? Since you have no solid evidence you are promoting a conspiracy theory.

347

All I know is a kid is dead. All of this bullshit is irrelevant if we now live in a country where I can get shot walking to my house because some jackass is carrying a gun and is too scared to NOT use it as a first resort.

Whether he was racist or not does not eclipse the bigger issue.

348

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
2 words: Street Justice.[/quote]

Vigilantism begets vigilantism.
[/quote]

And the police have chosen to become an accomplice? Really? Since you have no solid evidence you are promoting a conspiracy theory. [/quote]

So my assumed “conspiracy theory” is now a bigger crime than the shooter’s story?

Seems like the bigger issues in this thread have become the arguments surrounding the tragedy.

Sad.

349

[quote]Professor X wrote:
All I know is a kid is dead. All of this bullshit is irrelevant if we now live in a country where I can get shot walking to my house because some jackass is carrying a gun and is too scared to NOT use it as a first resort.

Whether he was racist or not does not eclipse the bigger issue.

[/quote]
Yeah, the bigger issue of self defense to a perceived threat as defined by law in a case where we have limited detail.

350

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
All I know is a kid is dead. All of this bullshit is irrelevant if we now live in a country where I can get shot walking to my house because some jackass is carrying a gun and is too scared to NOT use it as a first resort.

Whether he was racist or not does not eclipse the bigger issue.

[/quote]
Yeah, the bigger issue of self defense to a perceived threat as defined by law in a case where we have limited detail.[/quote]

I think if you put yourself in the way of danger with the intent of stopping a perceived threat as a vigilante wannabe, your ability to scream self defense should be compromised.

351

[quote]Professor X wrote:
All I know is a kid is dead. All of this bullshit is irrelevant if we now live in a country where I can get shot walking to my house because some jackass is carrying a gun and is too scared to NOT use it as a first resort.

Whether he was racist or not does not eclipse the bigger issue.

[/quote]

Agreed. It’s called neighborhood WATCH, not neighborhood SHOOT.

352

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
All I know is a kid is dead. All of this bullshit is irrelevant if we now live in a country where I can get shot walking to my house because some jackass is carrying a gun and is too scared to NOT use it as a first resort.

Whether he was racist or not does not eclipse the bigger issue.

[/quote]
Yeah, the bigger issue of self defense to a perceived threat as defined by law in a case where we have limited detail.[/quote]

Nice attempt…hahahah I can even see you laughing as you went to click out that line on your keyboard.
As a Gun Owner/Collector/CCW Holder myself I find this as comical as we both know you do. With the right to carry comes a BIGGER Responsibility not a smaller one.

But thanks for that. Man you are good at what you do. hahahahah

353

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
All I know is a kid is dead. All of this bullshit is irrelevant if we now live in a country where I can get shot walking to my house because some jackass is carrying a gun and is too scared to NOT use it as a first resort.

Whether he was racist or not does not eclipse the bigger issue.

[/quote]
Yeah, the bigger issue of self defense to a perceived threat as defined by law in a case where we have limited detail.[/quote]

Nice attempt…hahahah I can even see you laughing as you went to click out that line on your keyboard.
As a Gun Owner/Collector/CCW Holder myself I find this as comical as we both know you do. With the right to carry comes a BIGGER Responsibility not a smaller one.

But thanks for that. Man you are good at what you do. hahahahah[/quote]
Totally serious. Nice belittle though.

I find the hypocrisy between sentiment from posters in this thread vs. the superhero thread funny though.

And I do support the aggressive self defense laws in states such as Florida as linked, Texas et cetera for reasons I’ve already posted in this thread.

You can find humor in my opinions if you want, but they are my true opinions.

354

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
All I know is a kid is dead. All of this bullshit is irrelevant if we now live in a country where I can get shot walking to my house because some jackass is carrying a gun and is too scared to NOT use it as a first resort.

Whether he was racist or not does not eclipse the bigger issue.

[/quote]
Yeah, the bigger issue of self defense to a perceived threat as defined by law in a case where we have limited detail.[/quote]

I think if you put yourself in the way of danger with the intent of stopping a perceived threat as a vigilante wannabe, your ability to scream self defense should be compromised.
[/quote]

I said this earlier and then was informed I did not know self-defense law, which was true. But that is why the chain of events are important not just the moment the shot was fired.

355

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
All I know is a kid is dead. All of this bullshit is irrelevant if we now live in a country where I can get shot walking to my house because some jackass is carrying a gun and is too scared to NOT use it as a first resort.

Whether he was racist or not does not eclipse the bigger issue.

[/quote]
Yeah, the bigger issue of self defense to a perceived threat as defined by law in a case where we have limited detail.[/quote]

Nice attempt…hahahah I can even see you laughing as you went to click out that line on your keyboard.
As a Gun Owner/Collector/CCW Holder myself I find this as comical as we both know you do. With the right to carry comes a BIGGER Responsibility not a smaller one.

But thanks for that. Man you are good at what you do. hahahahah[/quote]

“Help! I’ve got a gun!!” …?

356

Okay, so SOME of the 911 tapes have been released, but they don’t clear much up. I read several articles on what was in the tapes and there are some inconsistencies that raise questions, but here is a cliffnotes version of some of what has been reported:

  1. Zimmerman calls 911 about a “suspicious” kid in a hoody walking slowly in the rain and looking into houses with his hand in his waist and approached Zimmerman’s car and then ran away. This just plain doesn’t add up. Why did the kid “approach” the car just to run away for no reason. Whether Zimmerman is lying to the operator or the kid was just acting weird is unknown, nor will it ever be known since the kid is dead, but I tend to think Zimmerman is lying. EDIT: The operator told Zimmerman not to follow him, but Zimmerman was under no legal obligation to do what the operator said.

  2. There was a fistfight and at least at some point Trayvon had the upper hand according to eyewitness reports. The lawyers for the kid’s family say there are two gunshots, but that goes against all reports given by the neighbors and the police have not commented on the two shot theory. I would think that if two shots were fired, that would be easily confirmed through the presence of shell casings or whatnot so that will be fairly easily confirmed. The lawyers story makes no sense, though, and sounds like a gangland assassination tale.

  3. The Huffington Post claims that Zimmerman has had complaints in the past about his aggressive methods and behavior from the neighborhood. No mention of racist behavior though.

  4. There is no evidence about who started the fight or what was said between the two before the fight broke out, which is probably the most important information to have in this case to determine guilt. I am not lawyer by any stretch of the imagination, but it doesn’t seem like there is much to go on here.

Was Zimmerman overly aggressive? Probably, but I don’t think being aggressive is illegal. Was he unfairly profiling Trayvon? Maybe. If what he said on the tapes is true, Trayvon was acting suspiciously. He could be racist, but it is more likely he was worked up over the recent “crime spree” that had been reported in the area. I can see how that would make a wannabe hero like him feel incompetent and angry and why he would be overly alert and paranoid about anyone in the neighborhood. He claimed that the kid looked like he was on drugs. I would like to know if the coroner found any trace of drugs in the kid’s system. If there were, it could explain a few things.

None of it makes up for that fact that a kid is dead, whether he is black or white or whatever color. Frankly, I am a little disgusted that there has been so much concern over the races of the people involved and not as much concern over the facts. From page 1 of this thread people have been claiming racism, while the facts available show instead it may have more to do with an unstable and overly aggressive watch captain with some major ego problems. We should have been discussing that and the problems that arise from allowing people like that to have positions that can allow them to harm others like this.

357

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

None of it makes up for that fact that a kid is dead, whether he is black or white or whatever color. Frankly, I am a little disgusted that there has been so much concern over the races of the people involved and not as much concern over the facts. From page 1 of this thread people have been claiming racism, while the facts available show instead it may have more to do with an unstable and overly aggressive watch captain with some major ego problems. We should have been discussing that and the problems that arise from allowing people like that to have positions that can allow them to harm others like this.[/quote]

Actually, what has been claimed is that if race was why he was seen as suspicious, then that is a racist act regardless of if he or you would call him a “racist”.

Either way, the larger fact is a kid is dead who just went to the store because some jackass didn’t stay away.

Zimmerman CHOSE to get involved. That bullshit about approaching his car was supposed to mean the kid was about to steal it?

I still don’t see how inserting yourself into a NON-SITUATION allows you to cry self defense when it then becomes a situation.

358

This article says that there where cries for help before the shots are fired.

Matt, I have read that “threatening” depends more on how others feel about the behavior rather than the intent. Consider, when someone say the are just trying to scare someone and that person fears for their life. My point is that being aggressive can equal threatening and would explain why the boy felt a need to fight and protect himself.

I have argued that Z is at fault for the numerious steps he took to cause the confrontation. Interestingly enough, the fact that Z is Hispanic has been argued that is enough to say he is not racist. Implies only white people can be racist.

359

I just moved to California but lived the past twelve years in Florida, Orlando area. This pretty much happened in my backyard…I am shocked and appalled but not in the least bit surprised. The South has a deep hate for minorities still, flying their rebel flags and bullshit. A redneck in a truck spit at me at a gas station once…the people and their attitude makes things like this an issue still. Racial profiling all the way.

Why be a vigilante? If he was SOOO supicious, he should have just called the cops and keep an eye on him.

360

This type of racial profiling is like a cancer…IT bleeds to the minds of other races and eventually EVERYONE starts to believe it