[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
And why does the right only seem to give a shit about gun owner rights over civil rights?
.[/quote]
Just for the record, the right to bare arms is a civil right.[/quote]
Picked up my first wheel gun 3 weeks ago and believe it or not I thought of your No semi auto having azz when I picked it up.
Long live the Ruger GP100
Four60, the article clearly proves 1) DeeDee is not his GF as Mr. Crump fabricated 2) She was not so upset she had to be hospitalized and could not make the viewing on March 3rd as Mr. Crump fabricated. It was all fabricated to tug at your heart strings and elicit the response that they achieved. Mr. Crump is a personal injury & wrongful death attorney who is financially motivated to create a narrative so he can file a wrongful death suit, it has nothing to do with “justice” unless you count Gucci loafers and justice.
[quote]Adam Bomb wrote:
He looked suspicious, that’s why he was followed. I didn’t know “suspicious” had now reached minority status. [/quote]
What was “suspicious” about this kid other than his skin color?
[quote]overstand wrote:
[quote]four60 wrote:
[quote]overstand wrote:
[quote]four60 wrote:
So far nothing I heard has changed my “opinion” that Zimmermans actions on that night, initiated and then escalated the events that ended with Martins death. His actions had no foresight into what could happen.
Just the idea of leaving your car and following someone you view as dangerous, minimizing your options and jeopardizing the safety of others (stray shots) should be a criminal act. But this is just my view and I still am not sure of the legality of his actions in the state of Florida.
Stupidity is not a crime in Florida. If he gets off it may have more to do with the prosecutions choices than anything else. [/quote]
Zimmerman didn’t choose to be attacked. The final choice was Martin’s. How they ended up at that juncture is immaterial.
As I’ve already said, by your line of reasoning I could argue that it was Trayvon’s fault for being in the neighborhood to begin with. Had he not been
suspended from school, he would have been hundreds of miles away.
Trayvon made a choice to escalate the situation to physical violence. Zimmerman was never given that choice, and all the rest is us looking at it in hindsight and saying he was an idiot for putting himself in that situation.
If I go to a bar and end up getting assaulted by a drunk dude, is it my fault for being there? No.[/quote]
No. by your way of thinking if Trayvons great great grandmother had neve met her husband this would have not happend.
It goes beyond what you are claiming. If you owned a Permit to carry or had any classes or training as Im told Zimmerman had you would know. WE who carry weapons as citizens are told to be more aware of the positions we put ourselves in. BECAUSE we can take a life or lives with the simple squeeze of a finger.
Zimmermans desire to either catch a badguy or stop a crime by being on scene was what led up to this. Buy leaaving the safety of his car and placing himself inbetween homes where his neighbors lived on either side of the street was just dumb. What if this was a guy with a gun and bullets went flying on both sides. WHAT was Ziimmermans plan then?
As an adult and a Concealed Carry Weapons (CCW) holder I view his actions as beyond reckless. Again I have no idea if it was illegal under florida law. But Dumb without questin.
He called the cops. Why leave a car and follow someone who may have a gun. Why not call other Neighborhood watch people and warn your neigbors?
He got tunnel vision and it got him bruised up and cost a kid his life. He is lucky the person he was following was not armed.
[/quote]
The ultimate decision was Trayvon’s. He could have walked inside, locked the door and called the police.
Here’s the transcript from the 911 call.
At 7:12:10, he tells the dispatcher “He ran.”
At 7:13:05, he starts to give the dispatcher his address, then stops and says he doesn’t want to give out the information because he doesn’t know where the kid is.
He remains on the phone with 911 until 7:13:47.
It’s clear Trayvon had MINUTES where he was out of the line of sight of Zimmerman. He had escaped, he was out of danger. All he had to do was go inside, lock the door and call police.
Instead he turned around and instigated a physical altercation.
Whatever logic you are using to place the blame on Zimmerman is beyond me. [/quote]
Its just that Logic. Not bias. This whole got away thing is based on the shooters testimony. WE don’t know. By your own map it shows several paths and we have no proof of the path zimmerman took. We can guess but its just that a guess. Same with Martins path its a guess.
But you are stating Zimmermans case as if His testimony is Fact.
[quote]four60 wrote:
Stupidity is not a crime in Florida. If he gets off it may have more to do with the prosecutions choices than anything else. [/quote]
I think this is correct.
The prosecution has no way of proving Zimmerman provoked the fight with Martin; in fact, the investigator admitted it. As a result, the self-defense claim will stand and he won’t be convicted of 2nd degree murder.
If the prosecutor wasn’t such a political whore, she would have charged Zimmerman with “involuntary manslaughter,” which includes a “criminal negligence” stadard.
“Involuntary manslaughter” is for when you do something stupid — like drive way too fast and kill someone.
If they did involuntary manslaughter, all the STUPID shit Zimmerman did would be relevant and you’d get a conviction.
Now, it will be a very narrow case with the prosecution trying to show who threw the first punch.
[quote]Adam Bomb wrote:
Why is Obama interjecting his “If I had a son he would look like Trayvon” bullshit? All for political racial divide.
[/quote]
Do you have kids? I do.
Almost any dad here will tell you that once you have kids, you automatically place the face of your child on the face of those in the news where kids are victims. Obabma related that in the simplest way possible.
When the pics of Trayvon Martin went out, it was like a kick in the gut to me because he was only 17, and my son is a teen as well… and it could have been HIM in that situation.
Don’t confuse a man’s empathy with his political aspirations.
[quote]four60 wrote:
Picked up my first wheel gun 3 weeks ago and believe it or not I thought of your No semi auto having azz when I picked it up.
Long live the Ruger GP100[/quote]
Revolvers are a good choice. If you can’t get it done in 5, you’re doing it wrong.
Heck of a lot safer for concealed carry, IMHO.
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
[quote]four60 wrote:
Stupidity is not a crime in Florida. If he gets off it may have more to do with the prosecutions choices than anything else. [/quote]
I think this is correct.
The prosecution has no way of proving Zimmerman provoked the fight with Martin; in fact, the investigator admitted it. As a result, the self-defense claim will stand and he won’t be convicted of 2nd degree murder.
If the prosecutor wasn’t such a political whore, she would have charged Zimmerman with “involuntary manslaughter,” which includes a “criminal negligence” stadard.
“Involuntary manslaughter” is for when you do something stupid — like drive way too fast and kill someone.
If they did involuntary manslaughter, all the STUPID shit Zimmerman did would be relevant and you’d get a conviction.
Now, it will be a very narrow case with the prosecution trying to show who threw the first punch.[/quote]
And with my limited understanding of the law much less the laws of FLorida This is how I understand it. He was a dumb ass that night. A dumb ass with the power of life and death at his finger tips and he knows this. That makes his actions Stupid. But they may not be illegal under Prosecutions charges.
And another thing is how can the HS Football player not run a short out of shape guy?
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
[quote]four60 wrote:
Stupidity is not a crime in Florida. If he gets off it may have more to do with the prosecutions choices than anything else. [/quote]
I think this is correct.
The prosecution has no way of proving Zimmerman provoked the fight with Martin; in fact, the investigator admitted it. As a result, the self-defense claim will stand and he won’t be convicted of 2nd degree murder.
If the prosecutor wasn’t such a political whore, she would have charged Zimmerman with “involuntary manslaughter,” which includes a “criminal negligence” stadard.
“Involuntary manslaughter” is for when you do something stupid — like drive way too fast and kill someone.
If they did involuntary manslaughter, all the STUPID shit Zimmerman did would be relevant and you’d get a conviction.
Now, it will be a very narrow case with the prosecution trying to show who threw the first punch.[/quote]
If the prosecution doesn’t satisfactorily prove 2nd degree murder, can the jury come back with manslaughter? How does something like that work?
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
[quote]four60 wrote:
Picked up my first wheel gun 3 weeks ago and believe it or not I thought of your No semi auto having azz when I picked it up.
Long live the Ruger GP100[/quote]
Revolvers are a good choice. If you can’t get it done in 5, you’re doing it wrong.
Heck of a lot safer for concealed carry, IMHO.[/quote]
You sound like my old boss and my wife on that one Jewbacca.
We must always allow for human error and fear so I like my Glock for 15 or more. Because as you said I could be doing it wrong hahahahaha
[quote]Adam Bomb wrote:
And another thing is how can the HS Football player not run a short out of shape guy?[/quote]
This was an enclosed neighborhood and you have no clue how well Trayvon knew that neighborhood. Some of you also seem crazy enough to run straight home if someone is following you.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
What was “suspicious” about this kid other than his skin color?[/quote]
You seriously wouldn’t check out a: (1) stranger; (2) wandering around in the rain; (3) with one hand concealed in his pants; (4) looking at houses, (5) in your gated community (5) at night when you’ve had a string of burglaries?
http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/11360266-418/911-tapes-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-released.html
[quote]four60 wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
And why does the right only seem to give a shit about gun owner rights over civil rights?
.[/quote]
Just for the record, the right to bare arms is a civil right.[/quote]
Picked up my first wheel gun 3 weeks ago and believe it or not I thought of your No semi auto having azz when I picked it up.
Long live the Ruger GP100[/quote]
Actually, I carry a G23. I just didn’t understand the lack of consideration for a revolver in that handgun thread.
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
What was “suspicious” about this kid other than his skin color?[/quote]
You seriously wouldn’t check out a: (1) stranger; (2) wandering around in the rain; (3) with one hand concealed in his pants; (4) looking at houses, (5) in your gated community (5) at night when you’ve had a string of burglaries?
http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/11360266-418/911-tapes-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-released.html
[/quote]
? I would NOT follow some guy around for walking down a street. If this kid was in someone’s yard looking in the window that would be different. It would be logical to NOTICE someone you hadn’t seen before, but to assume they were a criminal and on drugs because they were walking?? Are you insane?
Was he crawling in someone’s window?
No?
Well then, why the hell would someone take this beyond looking at him?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
What was “suspicious” about this kid other than his skin color?[/quote]
You seriously wouldn’t check out a: (1) stranger; (2) wandering around in the rain; (3) with one hand concealed in his pants; (4) looking at houses, (5) in your gated community (5) at night when you’ve had a string of burglaries?
http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/11360266-418/911-tapes-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-released.html
[/quote]
? I would NOT follow some guy around for walking down a street. If this kid was in someone’s yard looking in the window that would be different. It would be logical to NOTICE someone you hadn’t seen before, but to assume they were a criminal and on drugs because they were walking?? Are you insane?
Was he crawling in someone’s window?
No?
Well then, why the hell would someone take this beyond looking at him?
What was suspicious about walking down a sidewalk in the rain?
This kid was targeted because of how he looked. Yes, that is a problem.[/quote]
Was he looking in people’s windows?
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
What was “suspicious” about this kid other than his skin color?[/quote]
You seriously wouldn’t check out a: (1) stranger; (2) wandering around in the rain; (3) with one hand concealed in his pants; (4) looking at houses, (5) in your gated community (5) at night when you’ve had a string of burglaries?
http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/11360266-418/911-tapes-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-released.html
[/quote]
? I would NOT follow some guy around for walking down a street. If this kid was in someone’s yard looking in the window that would be different. It would be logical to NOTICE someone you hadn’t seen before, but to assume they were a criminal and on drugs because they were walking?? Are you insane?
Was he crawling in someone’s window?
No?
Well then, why the hell would someone take this beyond looking at him?
What was suspicious about walking down a sidewalk in the rain?
This kid was targeted because of how he looked. Yes, that is a problem.[/quote]
Was he looking in people’s windows? [/quote]
I’m pretty sure we would have heard if he had been.
The bottom line is, it is pretty ridiculous to ignore that this kid’s appearance is why he was CHASED AND KILLED.
People walking down a street is not a reason in itself to even call the cops if he had done no crime and was not in the act of performing one.
Yes, that is the racial bias people are referring to and Zimmerman’s true race doesn’t change that.
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
What was “suspicious” about this kid other than his skin color?[/quote]
You seriously wouldn’t check out a: (1) stranger; (2) wandering around in the rain; (3) with one hand concealed in his pants; (4) looking at houses, (5) in your gated community (5) at night when you’ve had a string of burglaries?
http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/11360266-418/911-tapes-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-released.html
[/quote]
You would?
Would you follow a stranger who you think may be on drugs and you think he has something concealed in his pants?
Or
Would you stay in your car, call 911, then call your other watch people to lock doors and call other neighbors?
Because a shoot out with a drugged up armed crimminal in a gated community may not be the path you want to take. But it should be a concern in your mind to guard your actions.
[quote]four60 wrote:
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
What was “suspicious” about this kid other than his skin color?[/quote]
You seriously wouldn’t check out a: (1) stranger; (2) wandering around in the rain; (3) with one hand concealed in his pants; (4) looking at houses, (5) in your gated community (5) at night when you’ve had a string of burglaries?
http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/11360266-418/911-tapes-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-released.html
[/quote]
You would?
Would you follow a stranger who you think may be on drugs and you think he has something concealed in his pants?
Or
Would you stay in your car, call 911, then call your other watch people to lock doors and call other neighbors?
Because a shoot out with a drugged up armed crimminal in a gated community may not be the path you want to take. But it should be a concern in your mind to guard your actions.[/quote]
Basically this. This fool risked a shoot out and the lives of every person in that neighborhood because he wanted to play hero. He was convinced this kid was breaking into houses because of his skin color and dress, all cultural/racial issues that don’t equal “criminal”.
…