Black Teen Shot 4

Off Topic
221

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

You are wrong the Burden is on Zimmerman to prove it was self defense. It has already been determined that stand your ground most likely will not apply.

As far as being a criminal mastermind, the guy I described was dumb as a brick but it didn’t stop him with coming up with it in about ten seconds. I guess if this passes for brilliance to you I can see where it may be hard for you to grasp.[/quote]

So your contention is that, in trial, Zimmerman will have to be proved innocent beyond a reasonable doubt?[/quote]

readings not your strong suit is it?
[/quote]

You are not exactly correct on the burden of proof. Because of the nature of this case, it shifts from the prosecutor, to Zimmerman, then back to the prosecutor.

Here:

  1. Burden to prove Zimmerman intentionally shot Martin: Prosecutor has burden – admitted
  2. Burden to prove justification in shooting (e.g., to protect against grevious bodily harm): Zimmerman has burden — easy to prove with witnesses to beating, piitures, etc
  3. Burden to prove Zimmerman “unlawfully provoked” the beating – Prosecutor has burden.

The first 1 and 2 are “gimmes” under the known facts, so this trial is going to be about whether Zimmerman “unlawfully provoked” Martin into jumping him.

For example, if someone runs up punches you in the face, you beat them, then he shoots you, he can’t rely on self-defense because he “unlawfully provoked” you.

This whole trial is going to be about the Prosecution proving Zimmerman started the physical altercation.
That’s going to be very hard to prove; in fact, the lead investigator admitted (during the bail hearing) the prosecution has no evidence to dispute Zimmerman’s story that Martin jumped him while he (Zimmerman) was walking back to the car.
[/quote]

I sincerely doubt that Zimmerman threw the first punch and I don’t think it would be hard to convince an unbiased jury that this is the case.

That being said, finding an unbiased jury will not be easy given the way the media has portrayed both Zimmerman and Martin. This case will be decided before it starts. [/quote]

Picking the Jury will not be a easy process for either side and it shouldn’t be. But I still say it can be done and Far Far from impossible.

222

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

You are wrong the Burden is on Zimmerman to prove it was self defense. It has already been determined that stand your ground most likely will not apply.

As far as being a criminal mastermind, the guy I described was dumb as a brick but it didn’t stop him with coming up with it in about ten seconds. I guess if this passes for brilliance to you I can see where it may be hard for you to grasp.[/quote]

So your contention is that, in trial, Zimmerman will have to be proved innocent beyond a reasonable doubt?[/quote]

readings not your strong suit is it?
[/quote]

Translation: “I misread your original post, and in response I will pretend I’m smart and be dismissive.”[/quote]

Please show me where I said he had to prove his innocence. I said he had to prove it was self defense if that is his claim. I’m not trying to pretend I’m smart and apparently neither should. I was dismissive because you implied I was lying with your dumbass post.[/quote]

Exactly what about anything I said implied you were lying?
[/quote]

“The legal system isn’t based on how many crackpot alternatives or random (and possibly fabricated) personal anecdotes you can come up with.”

223

So far nothing I heard has changed my “opinion” that Zimmermans actions on that night, initiated and then escalated the events that ended with Martins death. His actions had no foresight into what could happen.

Just the idea of leaving your car and following someone you view as dangerous, minimizing your options and jeopardizing the safety of others (stray shots) should be a criminal act. But this is just my view and I still am not sure of the legality of his actions in the state of Florida.

Stupidity is not a crime in Florida. If he gets off it may have more to do with the prosecutions choices than anything else.

224

[quote]four60 wrote:
So far nothing I heard has changed my “opinion” that Zimmermans actions on that night, initiated and then escalated the events that ended with Martins death. His actions had no foresight into what could happen.

Just the idea of leaving your car and following someone you view as dangerous, minimizing your options and jeopardizing the safety of others (stray shots) should be a criminal act. But this is just my view and I still am not sure of the legality of his actions in the state of Florida.

Stupidity is not a crime in Florida. If he gets off it may have more to do with the prosecutions choices than anything else. [/quote]

Well said.

225

Good reading that disproves a huge amount of the media/martin family attorney’s bullshit.

226

[quote]four60 wrote:
So far nothing I heard has changed my “opinion” that Zimmermans actions on that night, initiated and then escalated the events that ended with Martins death. His actions had no foresight into what could happen.

Just the idea of leaving your car and following someone you view as dangerous, minimizing your options and jeopardizing the safety of others (stray shots) should be a criminal act. But this is just my view and I still am not sure of the legality of his actions in the state of Florida.

Stupidity is not a crime in Florida. If he gets off it may have more to do with the prosecutions choices than anything else. [/quote]

Zimmerman didn’t choose to be attacked. The final choice was Martin’s. How they ended up at that juncture is immaterial.

As I’ve already said, by your line of reasoning I could argue that it was Trayvon’s fault for being in the neighborhood to begin with. Had he not been suspended from school, he would have been hundreds of miles away.

Trayvon made a choice to escalate the situation to physical violence. Zimmerman was never given that choice, and all the rest is us looking at it in hindsight and saying he was an idiot for putting himself in that situation.

If I go to a bar and end up getting assaulted by a drunk dude, is it my fault for being there? No.

227

Black men named Trayvon get killed all of the time in America, so why does the left fail to express consistent outrage?

228

[quote]overstand wrote:
…As I’ve already said, by your line of reasoning I could argue that it was Trayvon’s fault for being in the neighborhood to begin with. Had he not been suspended from school, he would have been hundreds of miles away.[/quote]

Dumbest of your argument points. I mean , REALLY??

Zimm would have done the same with ANY black kid in a hoodie, whether he lived there or not. Tray had a RIGHT to be there.

A strange dude with a chip on his shoulder and carrying gun tracked and innocent teen in the rain at night.

I have a teen son. And there’s no fucking way any part of THAT story sounds right.

229

[quote]overstand wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:
So far nothing I heard has changed my “opinion” that Zimmermans actions on that night, initiated and then escalated the events that ended with Martins death. His actions had no foresight into what could happen.

Just the idea of leaving your car and following someone you view as dangerous, minimizing your options and jeopardizing the safety of others (stray shots) should be a criminal act. But this is just my view and I still am not sure of the legality of his actions in the state of Florida.

Stupidity is not a crime in Florida. If he gets off it may have more to do with the prosecutions choices than anything else. [/quote]

Zimmerman didn’t choose to be attacked. The final choice was Martin’s. How they ended up at that juncture is immaterial.

As I’ve already said, by your line of reasoning I could argue that it was Trayvon’s fault for being in the neighborhood to begin with. Had he not been suspended from school, he would have been hundreds of miles away.

Trayvon made a choice to escalate the situation to physical violence. Zimmerman was never given that choice, and all the rest is us looking at it in hindsight and saying he was an idiot for putting himself in that situation.

If I go to a bar and end up getting assaulted by a drunk dude, is it my fault for being there? No.[/quote]

No. by your way of thinking if Trayvons great great grandmother had neve met her husband this would have not happend.

It goes beyond what you are claiming. If you owned a Permit to carry or had any classes or training as Im told Zimmerman had. WE who carry weapons as citizens are told to be more aware of the positions we put ourselves in. BECAUSE we can take a life or lives with the simple squeeze of a finger.

Zimmermans desire to either catch a badguy or stop a crime by being on scene was what led up to this. Buy leaaving the safety of his car and placing

himself inbetween homes where his neighbors lived on either side of the street was just plane dumb. What if this was a guy with a gun and bullets went flying on both sides. WHAT was Ziimmermans plan then?

As an adult and a Concealed Carry Weapons (CCW) holder I view his actions as beyond reckless. Again I have no idea if it was illegal under florida law. But Dumb without question.

He called the cops. Why leave a car and follow someone who may have a gun. Why not call other Neighborhood watch people and warn your neigbors?

He got tunnel vision and it got him bruised up and cost a kid his life. He is lucky the person he was following was not armed.

230

[quote]Adam Bomb wrote:
Black men named Trayvon get killed all of the time in America, so why does the left fail to express consistent outrage?

[/quote]

And why does the right only seem to give a shit about gun owner rights over civil rights?

Let’s keep the politics out of this, okay? People from both sides have taken alternate views of this case.

231

so, what if Martin hadnt been susspended and was just taking a couple days off from school? His being suspended has what to do with anything?

wow, now he SHOULDNT HAVE BEEN VISITING FAMILY!!!

232

The racial narrative that is being played out is for political reasons. Ohh no? Then why are they having voter registration at the rallies? Why is Obama interjecting his “If I had a son he would look like Trayvon” bullshit? All for political racial divide.

Read my other link, they have proven the “girlfriend phone call” story to be fabricated as well. It’s ALL bullshit fabricated by Mr. Crump.

233

[quote]Adam Bomb wrote:
What civil rights violation? There are zero FACTS that point to this being racially motivated. Please show me one.
[/quote]

? Was’t he followed because of what he looked like?

234

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

And why does the right only seem to give a shit about gun owner rights over civil rights?
.[/quote]

Just for the record, the right to bare arms is a civil right.

235

[quote]Adam Bomb wrote:
The racial narrative that is being played out is for political reasons. Ohh no? Then why are they having voter registration at the rallies? Why is Obama interjecting his “If I had a son he would look like Trayvon” bullshit? All for political racial divide.

Read my other link, they have proven the “girlfriend phone call” story to be fabricated as well. It’s ALL bullshit fabricated by Mr. Crump.
[/quote]

That was a long read but it did not PROVE the call was fabricated. I almost wish it did because I thought and think it was odd they never followed thru with more details after the first media blitz they did about it.

I have nieces that can text, watch tv do homework and talk on the phone at the same time.

I do think that the girlfriend and the phone thing is a big question mark in this case. I’ll wait for more information on that

236

He looked suspicious, that’s why he was followed. I didn’t know “suspicious” had now reached minority status.

237

[quote]Adam Bomb wrote:
The racial narrative that is being played out is for political reasons. Ohh no? Then why are they having voter registration at the rallies? Why is Obama interjecting his “If I had a son he would look like Trayvon” bullshit? All for political racial divide.

Read my other link, they have proven the “girlfriend phone call” story to be fabricated as well. It’s ALL bullshit fabricated by Mr. Crump.
[/quote]

for the group who dodesnt care about tthe race part…and I do think its overplayed by now

Im upset by the fsct thst s kid was shot and his shooter was treated like a jaywalker.

Im upset by how easy it is for people to get guns and how dumb they can be with them

thats all

I could care less about race

I worry about my white friends being gunned down by tards with guns and daddy issues just as much as I worry about my black ones

238

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[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:
So far nothing I heard has changed my “opinion” that Zimmermans actions on that night, initiated and then escalated the events that ended with Martins death. His actions had no foresight into what could happen.

Just the idea of leaving your car and following someone you view as dangerous, minimizing your options and jeopardizing the safety of others (stray shots) should be a criminal act. But this is just my view and I still am not sure of the legality of his actions in the state of Florida.

Stupidity is not a crime in Florida. If he gets off it may have more to do with the prosecutions choices than anything else. [/quote]

Zimmerman didn’t choose to be attacked. The final choice was Martin’s. How they ended up at that juncture is immaterial.

As I’ve already said, by your line of reasoning I could argue that it was Trayvon’s fault for being in the neighborhood to begin with. Had he not been suspended from school, he would have been hundreds of miles away.

Trayvon made a choice to escalate the situation to physical violence. Zimmerman was never given that choice, and all the rest is us looking at it in hindsight and saying he was an idiot for putting himself in that situation.

If I go to a bar and end up getting assaulted by a drunk dude, is it my fault for being there? No.[/quote]

No. by your way of thinking if Trayvons great great grandmother had neve met her husband this would have not happend.

It goes beyond what you are claiming. If you owned a Permit to carry or had any classes or training as Im told Zimmerman had you would know. WE who carry weapons as citizens are told to be more aware of the positions we put ourselves in. BECAUSE we can take a life or lives with the simple squeeze of a finger.

Zimmermans desire to either catch a badguy or stop a crime by being on scene was what led up to this. Buy leaaving the safety of his car and placing himself inbetween homes where his neighbors lived on either side of the street was just dumb. What if this was a guy with a gun and bullets went flying on both sides. WHAT was Ziimmermans plan then?

As an adult and a Concealed Carry Weapons (CCW) holder I view his actions as beyond reckless. Again I have no idea if it was illegal under florida law. But Dumb without questin.

He called the cops. Why leave a car and follow someone who may have a gun. Why not call other Neighborhood watch people and warn your neigbors?

He got tunnel vision and it got him bruised up and cost a kid his life. He is lucky the person he was following was not armed.
[/quote]

The ultimate decision was Trayvon’s. He could have walked inside, locked the door and called the police.

Here’s the transcript from the 911 call.

At 7:12:10, he tells the dispatcher “He ran.”

At 7:13:05, he starts to give the dispatcher his address, then stops and says he doesn’t want to give out the information because he doesn’t know where the kid is.

He remains on the phone with 911 until 7:13:47.

It’s clear Trayvon had MINUTES where he was out of the line of sight of Zimmerman. He had escaped, he was out of danger. All he had to do was go inside, lock the door and call police.

Instead he turned around and instigated a physical altercation.

Whatever logic you are using to place the blame on Zimmerman is beyond me.

239

[quote]Adam Bomb wrote:
He looked suspicious, that’s why he was followed. I didn’t know “suspicious” had now reached minority status. [/quote]

Your are guessing he looked suspicious based on the shooters testimony. WE don’t know how he looked that night.

240

[quote]four60 wrote:
No. by your way of thinking if Trayvons great great grandmother had neve met her husband this would have not happend.
[/quote]

This was my point Iron Dwarf, I said “by your way of thinking”. I wasn’t arguing that it’s Trayvon’s fault for being suspended, I was arguing that saying that is the same as blaming Zimmerman for being vigilant that night. It doesn’t matter how the two got into that situation. What matters is who escalated the situation to physical violence.