Black Teen Shot 2

Off Topic
761

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
…How many of you actually believe racism, racial profiling and discrimination is still existing and PREVELANT in today’s society???[/quote]

I believe.

Question for anyone - how many of you actually believe -“if the shoe fits.” With regards to who is doing the discriminating - I don’t see any lack of this fact from almost every race. I certainly cannot feel a unity on this thread. I can feel the racism below many of our comments.

My stance has shifted from the beginning. So-called facts were lies - false - or they appear to be. The more I read - the more we get confused. The media has done the public a disservice with the stories, pictures, with the racial games (grandstanding): white - no make that white-hispanic, 12 year young man picture then a 15 year’s man picture (no current picture), Martin’s suspension, Martin’s reason for his suspension (Jesus Christ who hasn’t smoked weed), Martin’s lack of a weapon, Martin’s size - 6’3" 150lbs (that weight has to be wrong), Zimmerman’s calls previous to the fatal shooting, Zimmerman’s zeal, Zimmerman’s CCW, Martin’s skittles and tea, Martin’s hoodie, the facts about reported burglaries allegedly reported by young black males, Martin’s bookbag containing burglary tools and jewelry (but, no report or arrest), all negative conjecture aimed at Zimmerman initally, different accounts / different witnesses, Al Sharpton and the Reverend Jesse Jackson (race baiters of the highest order), and Martin’s family’s registering their deceased son’s political slogan being slung around. Not too mention the the background of this particular police department and it’s sheriff - the passing of a month, the lack of a initial arrest by the police, the lack of evident/ photos taken by the police of Zimmerman, the lack of a drug test on Zimmerman, the callus handling of Martin’s body (DarkNinja I believe made these points - I read those myself), Obama’s advance political posturing - chiming in “could have been a son of mine,” the Twitter account with the ghetto speak (youth imho), talk of weed sales (big deal), and a possible altercation between Martin and a bus driver (no proof just talk). Facebook talk, Zimmerman’s previous arrest - no use his current photo (and lose of weight) - media has definitely taken a side here. Coverups will be suspected (or should I say may have happened).

I understand many of the opinions here. I have to say I think HG has kept to the facts extremely well. I think Professor X has brought up many fine points. I think DarkNinja has passionately brought up many points. The good doctor has kept it scientific. Many others have gone back and forth including myself - my stance was more against Zimmerman’s side. Now, I realize that I do not know the true facts and cannot take a stance without them. Tons of conjecture for sure. Dangerous to assume things we do not know about.

762

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
The tricky part is it can be reasonably argued that both were.
[/quote]

It’s only “tricky.” If you don’t understand the law. It is irrelevant whether the Black guy’s acts were legally justified or not. All that matters is if the Hispanic guy’s actions are legally justified.[/quote]

Not the way I had it explained to me by a cop. If you hold a hair brush where the handle looks like a gun, the person who feels threatened is legally threatened whether or not the person is actually at risk. If Martin felt threatened, then following that logic, Zimmerman started the whole mess and his claim of self-defense does not hold water. I think it is this point that is being overlooked. It is not just who punched who first. It is who threatened first. Again, this is how a cop explained it to me.[/quote]

That was why I mentioned if the gun was visible. People seem uninterested in this important fact. All of the actions committed on both parts make sense if that gun was seen as a threat in itself first.
[/quote]

It does not even have to get that far. It has been argued that you can legally follow a pedestrian while in a car. Try following some kids home from school that way, or female college students around campus, and see how long it takes for the cops to show up. I think that act falls under menacing and the kids, college students, etc. would not be considerd crazy for feeling threatened. Though less threatened than if you get out of the cat and start going after them when they try to run away.

Following someone in your car can easily be conceived as threatening. Getting out of the car to pursue someone ups the threat meter. Having a visible gun UPS it even more.

I do not understand how this is not seen as threatening behavior.[/quote]
Cops “showing up” or even making an arrest is not equal to guilt of a crime.

According to actual known evidence, Trayvon is the criminal. Not much else can be argued.[/quote]

I am saying it is seen as threatening and unusual. Maybe not criminal but I am talking about perceived threat. That does count in how a person is legally able to respond.[/quote]
Indeed it does.

So, full on confrontation or attacked while retreating? So far evidence and testimony point to…

763

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]QuadasarusFlex wrote:

I’ve been neutral the whole time but this really pissed me off. People here really going to condone this shit?[/quote]

Despicable… There are so many people (not just journalists) taking advantage of this case one way or another to further their agendas or just… For fun I guess… It’s turning my stomach.

[/quote]

So some dude gave Spike Lee (and other stars) Zimmermans “address” and Spike Lee retweetted it for his followers to see? That is just irresponsible and pathetic.

764

[quote]nunhgrader wrote:

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
…How many of you actually believe racism, racial profiling and discrimination is still existing and PREVELANT in today’s society???[/quote]

I believe.

Question for anyone - how many of you actually believe -“if the shoe fits.” With regards to who is doing the discriminating - I don’t see any lack of this fact from almost every race. I certainly cannot feel a unity on this thread. I can feel the racism below many of our comments.

My stance has shifted from the beginning. So-called facts were lies - false - or they appear to be. The more I read - the more we get confused. The media has done the public a disservice with the stories, pictures, with the racial games (grandstanding): white - no make that white-hispanic, 12 year young man picture then a 15 year’s man picture (no current picture), Martin’s suspension, Martin’s reason for his suspension (Jesus Christ who hasn’t smoked weed), Martin’s lack of a weapon, Martin’s size - 6’3" 150lbs (that weight has to be wrong), Zimmerman’s calls previous to the fatal shooting, Zimmerman’s zeal, Zimmerman’s CCW, Martin’s skittles and tea, Martin’s hoodie, the facts about reported burglaries allegedly reported by young black males, Martin’s bookbag containing burglary tools and jewelry (but, no report or arrest), all negative conjecture aimed at Zimmerman initally, different accounts / different witnesses, Al Sharpton and the Reverend Jesse Jackson (race baiters of the highest order), and Martin’s family’s registering their deceased son’s political slogan being slung around. Not too mention the the background of this particular police department and it’s sheriff - the passing of a month, the lack of a initial arrest by the police, the lack of evident/ photos taken by the police of Zimmerman, the lack of a drug test on Zimmerman, the callus handling of Martin’s body (DarkNinja I believe made these points - I read those myself), Obama’s advance political posturing - chiming in “could have been a son of mine,” the Twitter account with the ghetto speak (youth imho), talk of weed sales (big deal), and a possible altercation between Martin and a bus driver (no proof just talk). Facebook talk, Zimmerman’s previous arrest - no use his current photo (and lose of weight) - media has definitely taken a side here. Coverups will be suspected (or should I say may have happened).

I understand many of the opinions here. I have to say I think HG has kept to the facts extremely well. I think Professor X has brought up many fine points. I think DarkNinja has passionately brought up many points. The good doctor has kept it scientific. Many others have gone back and forth including myself - my stance was more against Zimmerman’s side. Now, I realize that I do not know the true facts and cannot take a stance without them. Tons of conjecture for sure. Dangerous to assume things we do not know about.

[/quote]

I know where you’re coming from. Good to see you realize this rather than going hull-down with your original opinion out of pride or whatever.

765

[quote]TheSouthpaw wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]TheSouthpaw wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]doogie wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

When blacks have to worry about dying by the hands of those chosen to protect, it is NOTHING like worrying about getting shot by some random gang member.

The Police are a way bigger and more powerful “gang”.

But, of course, seeing as I said this…it will likely get brushed off as irrelevant despite the fact that I doubt most white people fear for their life if they get pulled over by a cop.[/quote]

White people are murdered WAY more often by Black people than Black people are murdered by cops. There is no denying that.

[/quote]

Once again, wouldn’t “getting murdered by cops” be a worse social experience been being murdered by a “criminal”?[/quote]
I am pretty sure the murdered person doesn’t give a fuck who killed them… you know, because they are dead! Quit acting the fool and recognize that if a white person acted half as bad about black people as you do about cops, we would never hear the end of what a vile racist they were. [/quote]

I used the word “social experience” for a reason…in an attempt to include what it does to society as a whole.

This was clearly lost on you…as it seems much comprehension is. You better stick to the insults.

Yes, losing faith and all trust in those chosen to protect is worse than fearing a criminal when it comes to society as a whole. But, of course you will argue against what I say no matter what.[/quote]

Aww, it’s so cute when you try to act smart. Face it, fool, you just said that being murdered by a cop is worse than being murdered by a banger. That is stupid…like sniffing paint stupid. Dead is dead, if you didn’t know, and so far the whole blacks killing whites versus cops killing blacks isn’t exactly going your way numbers wise.

You can blather on about social experience all you want but the families of the murdered person aren’t going to console themselves with “at least he wasn’t killed by a cop…” or some similar bullshit.

You’d be able to see that if you took a sec to pull your head out of your ass and drop the “I am black and a victim because a tiny portion of cops are racist assholes” gig. Face it, a tiny portion of every group in the world are assholes, your group included.

And I mean dentists, of course.

And before someone bothers to paint me into a corner without reading all my posts on this thread, I think:

  1. Zimmerman should have been arrested on the spot unless the police had evidence that we don’t know about yet that absolutely exonerates him, and
  2. Labeling any group by a stereotype based on a negative perception of a small portion of that group is absolutely moronic. In other words, racism is for idiots. [/quote]
    X is smart and dental school is no joke.

Unfortunately he is using his intelligent, logical thinking to edit, imagine and spin red herring, strawman bullshit due to uncontrolled emotion.

I’ve busted his balls for reverting to personal attacks because it smells like the end of rational, logical thought. This topic has been good because of decent conversation although all have been guilty of personal attacks in one way or another, except for maybe TexAg and Jewbacca but I think they’re pretty old (sarcastic comment).

Let’s all try to stay above the belt and discuss the topic, not the people discussing the topic.

Just saying.

766

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]TheSouthpaw wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]doogie wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

When blacks have to worry about dying by the hands of those chosen to protect, it is NOTHING like worrying about getting shot by some random gang member.

The Police are a way bigger and more powerful “gang”.

But, of course, seeing as I said this…it will likely get brushed off as irrelevant despite the fact that I doubt most white people fear for their life if they get pulled over by a cop.[/quote]

White people are murdered WAY more often by Black people than Black people are murdered by cops. There is no denying that.

[/quote]

Once again, wouldn’t “getting murdered by cops” be a worse social experience been being murdered by a “criminal”?[/quote]
I am pretty sure the murdered person doesn’t give a fuck who killed them… you know, because they are dead! Quit acting the fool and recognize that if a white person acted half as bad about black people as you do about cops, we would never hear the end of what a vile racist they were. [/quote]

I used the word “social experience” for a reason…in an attempt to include what it does to society as a whole.

This was clearly lost on you…as it seems much comprehension is. You better stick to the insults.

Yes, losing faith and all trust in those chosen to protect is worse than fearing a criminal when it comes to society as a whole. But, of course you will argue against what I say no matter what.[/quote]
If a few scattered cases of racially motivated police brutality legitimately shade the entire black populations view of police then by following your logic the more prevalent scenario of blacks killing whites justifies a “profiled” community view of blacks as aggressive, violent criminals; especially considering cases where gasoline is thrown on a random white and he is burned to death. And we’re talking modern times, not about a dead generation of adults in the 1920’s.

Like it or not, you are supporting “profiling”.[/quote]

No, you are wrong here. Distrusting an organization of people with a codified belief system with a given sworn code of conduct is nothing like attributing the acts of an individual to a race of people without those things.[/quote]
Except there is no codified system of routinely committing violence due to skin color within the organization, only rogue members of a population segment. The logic fits.[/quote]

that’s certainly debatable.

An organization that has voluntary membership and has specific factual commonalities can have fully rational inferences made. [/quote]
It would be an existential and irrelevant debate.

767

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]QuadasarusFlex wrote:

I’ve been neutral the whole time but this really pissed me off. People here really going to condone this shit?[/quote]

Despicable… There are so many people (not just journalists) taking advantage of this case one way or another to further their agendas or just… For fun I guess… It’s turning my stomach.

[/quote]

So some dude gave Spike Lee (and other stars) Zimmermans “address” and Spike Lee retweetted it for his followers to see? That is just irresponsible and pathetic. [/quote]
If that didn’t piss you off,I hope this does.

[quote] North Miami police have released surveillance footage of dozens of teens rampaging through a local Walgreens store, destroying property and shoplifting as part of a Trayvon Martin demonstration.

Local 10 reports that the teens ransacked the store following a walk-out at North Miami Beach Senior High School Friday in protest of the fact that George Zimmerman has not yet been arrested for Martinâ??s death.
[/quote]

383496.html?

This is a bit unsettling.

768

After reading the last few pages I’m just going to go off topic once:

You dudes can be apologetic about agreeing with me if you want but I’m right about a shit ton across the boards and you all fucking know it.

/hijack

769

[quote]QuadasarusFlex wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]QuadasarusFlex wrote:

I’ve been neutral the whole time but this really pissed me off. People here really going to condone this shit?[/quote]

Despicable… There are so many people (not just journalists) taking advantage of this case one way or another to further their agendas or just… For fun I guess… It’s turning my stomach.

[/quote]

So some dude gave Spike Lee (and other stars) Zimmermans “address” and Spike Lee retweetted it for his followers to see? That is just irresponsible and pathetic. [/quote]
If that didn’t piss you off,I hope this does.

[quote] North Miami police have released surveillance footage of dozens of teens rampaging through a local Walgreens store, destroying property and shoplifting as part of a Trayvon Martin demonstration.

Local 10 reports that the teens ransacked the store following a walk-out at North Miami Beach Senior High School Friday in protest of the fact that George Zimmerman has not yet been arrested for Martinâ??s death.
[/quote]

383496.html?

This is a bit unsettling.[/quote]

And so the abuse of this stitution continues.

770

^Well,its not the first time people take advantage of a situation such as this and it sure as hell wont be the last.

771

[quote]QuadasarusFlex wrote:
^Well,its not the first time people take advantage of a situation such as this and it sure as hell wont be the last.[/quote]

Damn right, unfortunately.

773

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Lead investigator WANTED to charge Zimmerman the night of the shooting:

So wait, the racist police department member wanted to bring charges the same night, but the state attorney’s office, you know, the one responsible for actually proving the charges in court, told them there wasn’t enough evidence at the time to be able to actually convict.

774

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
After reading the last few pages I’m just going to go off topic once:

You dudes can be apologetic about agreeing with me if you want but I’m right about a shit ton across the boards and you all fucking know it.

/hijack[/quote]

nope and so far you are one of the worst with “facts point to”. There are no facts yet.

775

634×525 61.9 KB

Easrly last week, an 85-year-old woman was sexually assaulted and battered to death by a home invader who also shot her 90-year-old husband in the face with a BB gun. Nancy and Bob Strait, who had celebrated their 65th wedding anniversary in December, were discovered by their daughter at their home in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

Mr Strait, who served in the 101st Airborne Division in World War II, suffered a broken jaw, broken ribs and severe bleeding. He is in a serious condition in a local hospital.

Today, police have arrested 20-year-old Tyrone Dale David Woodfork (pictured above) in connection with the case.

Unlike Mr. “white-hispanic” Zimmerman, Mr. Woodfork’s race is not mentioned anywhere in the article.

Read more: Brutal home invasion of Oklahoma couple ends their 65-year romance after first meeting on a blind date | Daily Mail Online

WHERE IS JESSE JACKSON? WHERE IS AL SHARPTON? WHERE IS THE MEDIA?

Why is this only to be found in an English paper?

Ask yourself: does our media have an agenda?

776

Anyone who destroys a family like that deserves to be placed on death row, in my opinion. The complete disrespect for the woman and her age and that of her husband is disgusting.

This jackass does not have any power over anyone in society.

The concept of understanding that social power and how it changes the dynamic of those involved is what has been discussed in this thread.

You may choose to disagree with it. That is your decision…but posting as if that point hasn’t been made abundantly clear is ridiculous.

Fuck the guy who raped that woman and killed her husband. He deserves what he gets.

777

One more thing…I don’t know anyone personally who thinks Al Sharpton speaks for the black community. He is not Martin Luther King Jr. In my opinion, the media loves to go to him for the story as he maneuvers his way into the center of it.

Anyone who recognizes media bias in only one direction is just as bad as the media. I would imagine that once the Sharpton media team is in place, they will assume control no matter what.

In terms of the family of Trayvon, I can completely understand them focusing on race hate laws to get more attention to this case if for no other reason.

I can also agree that at this point in history, race hate crimes may need more specific definitions. I also understand why they were instated and believe they were definitely needed previously just like Affirmative Action or else we would be about 40 years behind in terms of present race relations.

778

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Anyone who destroys a family like that deserves to be placed on death row, in my opinion. The complete disrespect for the woman and her age and that of her husband is disgusting.

This jackass does not have any power over anyone in society.

The concept of understanding that social power and how it changes the dynamic of those involved is what has been discussed in this thread.

You may choose to disagree with it. That is your decision…but posting as if that point hasn’t been made abundantly clear is ridiculous.

Fuck the guy who raped that woman and killed her husband. He deserves what he gets.

[/quote]

He had complete and total power over the elderly couple.

779

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Anyone who destroys a family like that deserves to be placed on death row, in my opinion. The complete disrespect for the woman and her age and that of her husband is disgusting.

This jackass does not have any power over anyone in society.

The concept of understanding that social power and how it changes the dynamic of those involved is what has been discussed in this thread.

You may choose to disagree with it. That is your decision…but posting as if that point hasn’t been made abundantly clear is ridiculous.

Fuck the guy who raped that woman and killed her husband. He deserves what he gets.

[/quote]

He had complete and total power over the elderly couple.
[/quote]

Which is way different than fighting an entire police department.

No one is downplaying the horror of destroying that family.

780

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Anyone who destroys a family like that deserves to be placed on death row, in my opinion. The complete disrespect for the woman and her age and that of her husband is disgusting.

This jackass does not have any power over anyone in society.

The concept of understanding that social power and how it changes the dynamic of those involved is what has been discussed in this thread.

You may choose to disagree with it. That is your decision…but posting as if that point hasn’t been made abundantly clear is ridiculous.

Fuck the guy who raped that woman and killed her husband. He deserves what he gets.

[/quote]

He had complete and total power over the elderly couple.
[/quote]

Which is way different than fighting an entire police department.

No one is downplaying the horror of destroying that family.[/quote]

If this were a legal battle afterward, then I agree with you. But what is being discussed is physical force. It doesn’t matter weather its 3 gang bangers raping and murdering your wife or 3 cops. Beating someone to death is beating them to death, cop baton or baseball bat.

The physical power is absolute either way. Social standing and power don’t enter into the act itself.