Black Teen Shot 2

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[quote]Professor X wrote:
gee, dude, he wouldn’t have been stopped at all in the first place. He is Liberian. That is a very distinctive look despite his skin tone. He was stopped “for fitting the description”…of a black man…who was not Liberian. He “self identified” as LIBERIAN (you know, since people made such an issue before of what Zimmerman “self identified” as).[/quote]

He was of Guinean ancestry. What “distinctive” look are you talking about?

Guy looks black to me. What do you think should have happened?

“You fit the profile of a black male who [blah blah blah]”

“No, officers, I’m not black. I’m Liberian.”

“Oopsies. Our mistake. Have a nice day, sir.”

[quote]Professor X wrote:
He wouldn’t have been shot if he hadn’t been stopped for “fitting the description”. The man was coming home after work. He was not the man they were looking for…and none of them saw any negative outcome.[/quote]

Because he ran away from the cops, then stopped in a poorly lit area and pulled a small, dark object out of his pocket.

Dumb move it dumb.

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[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]TheSouthpaw wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]doogie wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

When blacks have to worry about dying by the hands of those chosen to protect, it is NOTHING like worrying about getting shot by some random gang member.

The Police are a way bigger and more powerful “gang”.

But, of course, seeing as I said this…it will likely get brushed off as irrelevant despite the fact that I doubt most white people fear for their life if they get pulled over by a cop.[/quote]

White people are murdered WAY more often by Black people than Black people are murdered by cops. There is no denying that.

[/quote]

Once again, wouldn’t “getting murdered by cops” be a worse social experience been being murdered by a “criminal”?[/quote]
I am pretty sure the murdered person doesn’t give a fuck who killed them… you know, because they are dead! Quit acting the fool and recognize that if a white person acted half as bad about black people as you do about cops, we would never hear the end of what a vile racist they were. [/quote]

I used the word “social experience” for a reason…in an attempt to include what it does to society as a whole.

This was clearly lost on you…as it seems much comprehension is. You better stick to the insults.

Yes, losing faith and all trust in those chosen to protect is worse than fearing a criminal when it comes to society as a whole. But, of course you will argue against what I say no matter what.[/quote]

I hate and distrust cops too.
[/quote]

Seriously?

[/quote]

In the local community where I now live I know most of the local police through the fire department, so there I have acquired some trust. But, numerous experiences growing up have lead me to believe there is more corruption than good intent most places. I certainly do not inherently trust or respect them by virtue of being a cop.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

Even if it was racial profiling, what proof is there that THAT lead to him being shot? Not that I discount the possiblity.[/quote]

gee, dude, he wouldn’t have been stopped at all in the first place.
[/quote]
I sort of get where you’re coming from with that, but that is just that… He was stopped because of it… Whether he was shot because of it too is what I want to know. [quote]
He is Liberian. That is a very distinctive look despite his skin tone. He was stopped “for fitting the description”…of a black man…who was not Liberian. He “self identified” as LIBERIAN (you know, since people made such an issue before of what Zimmerman “self identified” as).
[/quote] FWIW I was not one of those people. I also agree with you that the impression people get of you/how you look is usually what they will label you as. I thought Zimmermann was hispanic/latino upon seeing his mugshot (previously thought he was white because of the name). Turns out he is mixed race… Oh well.

?

A logical fallacy? The man was unarmed and held up a wallet to show who he was.
[/quote] Does not matter (from a legal standpoint) if they really did think he was pulling a gun. Do you really not see where I am coming from here?

[quote] From the events I remember, he was cornered when this happened and the guns were already drawn.
[/quote] I don’t know if the guns were drawn already, I’ll have to look that up…
It doesn’t change the main issue though, which is did they really think he had a gun or not…
I’ve also seen it mentioned that one of the officers stumbled on some stairs or whatever and fell, leading the others to believe that he had been shot…
It’s not as if I’m simply buying the officers’ statements either…

You are focusing on stuff that does not matter in the context of the case as such. Unarmed in hindsight, yes. Possible that they are telling the truth? Yes.
Shot-count? What does it actually matter? Would it have been more right to fire once? You are medically and militarily trained. Was there no terminal ballistics and psychology in regards to gunfights courses or whatever involved? [quote]
This was a case that did not get world wide publicity. hell, Wyclef’s song about it is probably more media than it ever got on tv back then. The 90’s were way more “racist” than today…and I am sure we will be able to say the same in ten years about right now.

Realizing this for what it is is not a “logical fallacy”.[/quote]

“black guy being stopped by police and then shot because of 2 different possiblities” does not equate to “this guy died because he was black”. That’s a logical fallacy. Posting this again.

In one possibility you would be correct. In the other you would be wrong. How can you tell which is the correct one that happened?

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Shit, X, if I thought fleeing from cops and then whipping out my wallet once they cornered me was an intelligent move, I’d be scared shitless of being pulled over, too.

Here’s a hint: when you see the flashing lights behind you, turn on your overhead light, get out your information, put the window down, pull over and keep your hands on top of the steering wheel as the officers approach.

I only say this because you clearly have a different definition of what constitutes intelligent civilian-to-LEO interactions. I’d hate for you to be a victim of your own stereotyping because you’re too oblivious act rationally.

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[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

In the local community where I now live I know most of the local police through the fire department, so there I have acquired some trust. But, numerous experiences growing up have lead me to believe there is more corruption than good intent most places. I certainly do not inherently trust or respect them by virtue of being a cop.[/quote]

Corruption. I understand.

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[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:
If either of you had even read the article that thethirdruffian posted, you would realize that the current Secret Service director mentions that 400% figure and says that it is false.

But let’s just ignore that.[/quote]

Both the REMF and the Dwarf have a very selective filter and make errors in only ONE direction.

It’s actually amusing.[/quote]

No what is amusing and very sad is that the other posters on here will read what they say and take it for what its worth just because they are so “vocal” on here, mind you not very factual.

Kinda like a cubic Zirconia - under close scrutiny you see it for what it is but at a distance and in passing looks great.

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[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:
If either of you had even read the article that thethirdruffian posted, you would realize that the current Secret Service director mentions that 400% figure and says that it is false.

But let’s just ignore that.[/quote]

Both the REMF and the Dwarf have a very selective filter and make errors in only ONE direction.

It’s actually amusing.[/quote]

I got the info from my source BEFORE you posted yours. With thousands of sources online, I gathered my info from what I thought was a recent article.

Sue me.

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[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Seriously?

[/quote]

In the local community where I now live I know most of the local police through the fire department, so there I have acquired some trust. But, numerous experiences growing up have lead me to believe there is more corruption than good intent most places. I certainly do not inherently trust or respect them by virtue of being a cop.[/quote]

Oh, neithr do I. I just don’t hate or distrust them in general either…
But your statement before certainly seemed crass though, unless you were referring to particular individuals. Badly worded maybe?

As for the corruption, that’s not something I disagree with or anything… I despise corruption and such myself.

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[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Seriously?

[/quote]

In the local community where I now live I know most of the local police through the fire department, so there I have acquired some trust. But, numerous experiences growing up have lead me to believe there is more corruption than good intent most places. I certainly do not inherently trust or respect them by virtue of being a cop.[/quote]

Oh, neithr do I. I just don’t hate or distrust them in general either…
But your statement before certainly seemed crass though, unless you were referring the particular individuals. Badly worded maybe?

As for the corruption, that’s not something I disagree with or anything… I despise corruption and such myself.

[/quote]

Well, crass, yeah, I sure as hell am that.

I do hate the position though. I hate the way society is structured in regard to police. I don’t like the inherent position. Add to that the natural corruption of man who is given power, and it’s a recipe for disaster.

But, in my view, I register being a cop as a negative trait, knowing nothing else. I think it makes a person much more likely to have done very bad things versus the average person.

That said, being a cop is certainly a position where a person can do a lot of good and heroic things, being a cop doesn’t disqualify someone being good.

But, you do know why god created firefighters, right?

So cops could have heroes.

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[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

Well, crass, yeah, I sure as hell am that.

I do hate the position though. I hate the way society is structured in regard to police. I don’t like the inherent position. Add to that the natural corruption of man who is given power, and it’s a recipe for disaster.

But, in my view, I register being a cop as a negative trait, knowing nothing else. I think it makes a person much more likely to have done very bad things versus the average person.

That said, being a cop is certainly a position where a person can do a lot of good and heroic things, being a cop doesn’t disqualify someone being good.

But, you do know why god created firefighters, right?

So cops could have heroes.[/quote]

lol (@ the joke).

Although I have a general dislike and distrust of cops, I gotta hand it to them for taking on a job where the potential for stress can be extremely high.

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[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Seriously?

[/quote]

In the local community where I now live I know most of the local police through the fire department, so there I have acquired some trust. But, numerous experiences growing up have lead me to believe there is more corruption than good intent most places. I certainly do not inherently trust or respect them by virtue of being a cop.[/quote]

Oh, neithr do I. I just don’t hate or distrust them in general either…
But your statement before certainly seemed crass though, unless you were referring the particular individuals. Badly worded maybe?

As for the corruption, that’s not something I disagree with or anything… I despise corruption and such myself.

[/quote]

Well, crass, yeah, I sure as hell am that.

I do hate the position though. I hate the way society is structured in regard to police. I don’t like the inherent position. Add to that the natural corruption of man who is given power, and it’s a recipe for disaster.

But, in my view, I register being a cop as a negative trait, knowing nothing else. I think it makes a person much more likely to have done very bad things versus the average person.

That said, being a cop is certainly a position where a person can do a lot of good and heroic things, being a cop doesn’t disqualify someone being good.

But, you do know why god created firefighters, right?

So cops could have heroes.[/quote]

I agree with every word of this.

I have known some good cops. My next door neighbor seems to be one.

I have met far more ass holes who treated me like a kid even as a grown man. They have the power to kill me and get away with it. They’ve proven that time and time again. I really don’t understand the people who actually do trust them like children do.

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[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Seriously?

[/quote]

In the local community where I now live I know most of the local police through the fire department, so there I have acquired some trust. But, numerous experiences growing up have lead me to believe there is more corruption than good intent most places. I certainly do not inherently trust or respect them by virtue of being a cop.[/quote]

Oh, neithr do I. I just don’t hate or distrust them in general either…
But your statement before certainly seemed crass though, unless you were referring the particular individuals. Badly worded maybe?

As for the corruption, that’s not something I disagree with or anything… I despise corruption and such myself.

[/quote]

Well, crass, yeah, I sure as hell am that.

I do hate the position though. I hate the way society is structured in regard to police. I don’t like the inherent position. Add to that the natural corruption of man who is given power, and it’s a recipe for disaster.

But, in my view, I register being a cop as a negative trait, knowing nothing else. I think it makes a person much more likely to have done very bad things versus the average person.

That said, being a cop is certainly a position where a person can do a lot of good and heroic things, being a cop doesn’t disqualify someone being good.

But, you do know why god created firefighters, right?

So cops could have heroes.[/quote]

Some good stuff here.

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[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Seriously?

[/quote]

In the local community where I now live I know most of the local police through the fire department, so there I have acquired some trust. But, numerous experiences growing up have lead me to believe there is more corruption than good intent most places. I certainly do not inherently trust or respect them by virtue of being a cop.[/quote]

Oh, neithr do I. I just don’t hate or distrust them in general either…
But your statement before certainly seemed crass though, unless you were referring the particular individuals. Badly worded maybe?

As for the corruption, that’s not something I disagree with or anything… I despise corruption and such myself.

[/quote]

Well, crass, yeah, I sure as hell am that.

I do hate the position though. I hate the way society is structured in regard to police. I don’t like the inherent position. Add to that the natural corruption of man who is given power, and it’s a recipe for disaster.

But, in my view, I register being a cop as a negative trait, knowing nothing else. I think it makes a person much more likely to have done very bad things versus the average person.
[/quote] Hm, I disagree with you on that I guess.
See them as a threat? Yeah, sure. I know they are armed of course, and don’t wear the same uniform I wear… But beyond that and my usual nervousness whenever faced with LE people outside of a training situation, I don’t see them in a negative light by default.[quote]

That said, being a cop is certainly a position where a person can do a lot of good and heroic things, being a cop doesn’t disqualify someone being good.
[/quote] Huh. I mostly just see them as those dudes who are supposed to enforce the law (And what I wrote above). I mean, that’s what they’re supposed to be, no? The serve and protect thing is just a slogan after all, has little to do with what they are actually supposed to do.

[quote]
But, you do know why god created firefighters, right?

So cops could have heroes.[/quote]

Haha, so fire-fighters have their own jokes just like every other group/organization… I better not tell ours haha.

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[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:
If either of you had even read the article that thethirdruffian posted, you would realize that the current Secret Service director mentions that 400% figure and says that it is false.

But let’s just ignore that.[/quote]

Both the REMF and the Dwarf have a very selective filter and make errors in only ONE direction.

It’s actually amusing.[/quote]

I got the info from my source BEFORE you posted yours. With thousands of sources online, I gathered my info from what I thought was a recent article.

Sue me.
[/quote]

It would be no big deal but your errors are always in ONE direction:

Here is some of your hit parade*:

Zimmerman chased down Martin and shot him in cold blood
Zimmerman was a racist
Zimmerman called Martin a “coon”
Martin was screaming for help on the tape (turns out it was Zimmerman)
Zimmerman shot Martin in the back (my favorite silliness of yours)

  • I may have a couple of these muddled with other posters.

We all makes errors. But when your errors are all pointed in one direction, maybe re-think your world view.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:
They have the power to kill me and get away with it. They’ve proven that time and time again.
[/quote]

You seem quite alive to me.

And I don’t “trust” them by default either. I just don’t see things the same way you guys do in this regard, but then I’m also not in your position(s).

Hell, the indig police in tatooine will make you wish for your U.S. police instead.

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[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
= Hm, I disagree with you on that I guess.
See them as a threat? Yeah, sure. I know they are armed of course, and don’t wear the same uniform I wear… But beyond that and my usual nervousness whenever faced with LE people outside of a training situation, I don’t see them in a negative light by default.
[/quote]

You see them as a threat when you realize shooting you and planting shit on your body as “evidence” isn’t exactly something that can’t happen.

Just Saiyan.

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Just need a quick reply here…all those who are arguing that Zimmerman shooting the kid was “justified” or still waiting for “the facts to come out”…How many of you actually believe racism, racial profiling and discrimination is still exsisting and PREVELANT in today’s society???

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[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Just need a quick reply here…all those who are arguing that Zimmerman shooting the kid was “justified” or still waiting for “the facts to come out”…How many of you actually believe racism, racial profiling and discrimination is still exsisting and PREVELANT in today’s society???[/quote]

I do. I just do not attach it to every case that I read about just because it does happen and is relatively common. That is a good way to wind up with your foot in your mouth. It is also not just racial issues that I require a lot of evidence in order to reach any conclusions. I am a scientist, it just sort of comes with the territory.

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[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Just need a quick reply here…all those who are arguing that Zimmerman shooting the kid was “justified” or still waiting for “the facts to come out”…How many of you actually believe racism, racial profiling and discrimination is still exsisting and PREVELANT in today’s society???[/quote]

I do. I just do not attach it to every case that I read about just because it does happen and is relatively common. That is a good way to wind up with your foot in your mouth. It is also not just racial issues that I require a lot of evidence in order to reach any conclusions. I am a scientist, it just sort of comes with the territory. [/quote]

Yeah I understand where you’re coming from. Well that’s one so far.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
= Hm, I disagree with you on that I guess.
See them as a threat? Yeah, sure. I know they are armed of course, and don’t wear the same uniform I wear… But beyond that and my usual nervousness whenever faced with LE people outside of a training situation, I don’t see them in a negative light by default.
[/quote]

You see them as a threat when you realize shooting you and planting shit on your body as “evidence” isn’t exactly something that can’t happen.

Just Saiyan.[/quote]

That’s actually not what I’m thinking of there, I simply see them as a threat because they have guns and don’t register as blue in my head. Training or whatever… Seriously, the evidence planting thing is a troubling consideration but it’s honestly not what’s on my mind in such situations, it’s “seemingly neutral party with gun, careful, shit I’m nervous why the fuck did they stop me I’m one of two people in Germany who never break the speed limit goddamnit”.