[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Not surprising where our own president has received more death threats . … [/quote]
“Secret Service: Threat level against Obama no greater than under Bush, Clinton”
Dwarf, you need to get out of your bubble.
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
You do realize that he’s saying the later and not the former? He’s saying it was highly unlikely.[/quote]
I read that.
I was sarcastically showing just how ridiculous it would be to even entertain that idea.
But, of course, no one here is really expecting much from DN’s contributions.
[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Not surprising where our own president has received more death threats . … [/quote]
“Secret Service: Threat level against Obama no greater than under Bush, Clinton”
Dwarf, you need to get out of your bubble.[/quote]
Got my info from the last paragraph here:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Not surprising where our own president has received more death threats . … [/quote]
“Secret Service: Threat level against Obama no greater than under Bush, Clinton”
Dwarf, you need to get out of your bubble.[/quote]
Got my info from the last paragraph here:
[/quote]
Yep:
Uh…wow.
Which one is right?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I didn’t dance around anything. there is no blanket statement you can make about either race. You are wrong to do so. Every individual has different personal experience. Period.[/quote]
Wait…so NOW we are individuals again?
LOL
Dude, seriously, you really can’t see the problem with what you are saying? If I am an individual, then why I am being harassed because some other black guy did something who ONLY matches me because of skin color?
I mean, that IS what we are arguing here.
If the practices of racial profiling are causing this much of a rift in racial relationships…to the point that people will straight up deny that it happens…even WHILE it is happening…why wouldn’t you listen to the people targeted most?
You really think my opinion, dealing with this through my own experiences, mean nothing?
You have several black people on this board all saying the same thing…so we are all crazy?[/quote]
Where have I every said anything about anyone not being an individual?
“Dude, seriously, you really can’t see the problem with what you are saying? If I am an individual, then why I am being harassed because some other black guy did something who ONLY matches me because of skin color?”
This statement entirely disregards everything everyone has actually said about the issue.
“If the practices of racial profiling are causing this much of a rift in racial relationships…to the point that people will straight up deny that it happens…even WHILE it is happening…why wouldn’t you listen to the people targeted most?”
So, you have been target more than I have? How did you arrive at this fact? Besides, I thought you were saying you wanted to be treated as an individual and not as a group. But I guess you mean, when its negative, I’m an individual, when its positive (something that ads weight to your opinion), you’re a group.
For the record, I have never in any way discounted or dismissed your experience in any way. If you can show me any time ever on this board I have done that I’ll apologize profusely. You on the other hand have done it to me on many occasions.
But you have to remember, you weren’t there any more than I was. You have no more experience in this case than I do. You’ve never met Zimmerman, you’ve never walked that parking lot. I completely grant that being black in this country is a different perspective, BUT it is not the “correct” perspective (because there isn’t a correct one) and, in racial issues, you have no more a knowledge of being white as I do of being black. You have no more right to rule on interracial issues than anyone else. In an interracial issue, NO ONE can fully experience both perspectives. You have as large a hole in your experience as I do. You only have half the story, same as me.
If either of you had even read the article that thethirdruffian posted, you would realize that the current Secret Service director mentions that 400% figure and says that it is false.
But let’s just ignore that.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Which one is right?[/quote]
I would defer to the guy who runs the Secret Service, not some guy who writes a book.
The actual Secret Service guy says:
+++++
U.S. Secret Service Director Mark Sullivan dismissed published reports that the level of death threats against President Obama are four times greater than typical threat levels against recent presidents â?? claiming the current volume of threats is comparable to that under George W. Bush and Bill Clinton.
“It’s not [a] 400 percent [increase],” Sullivan said during a heated exchange with Delegate Eleanor Holmes Norton (D-D.C.), who suggested the service needed additional agents to protect the first African-American president.
“I’m not sure where that number comes from,” he said, adding that the number of threats against Obama “are the same level as it has been [against] the last two presidents.”
+++++
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Not surprising where our own president has received more death threats . … [/quote]
“Secret Service: Threat level against Obama no greater than under Bush, Clinton”
Dwarf, you need to get out of your bubble.[/quote]
Got my info from the last paragraph here:
[/quote]
Yep:
Uh…wow.
Which one is right?[/quote]
I would think that the mammoth explosion in social media would make the amount of threats tracked in this day and age FAR more numerous.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Even if it was racial profiling, what proof is there that THAT lead to him being shot? Not that I discount the possiblity.[/quote]
gee, dude, he wouldn’t have been stopped at all in the first place.
[/quote]
I sort of get where you’re coming from with that, but that is just that… He was stopped because of it… Whether he was shot because of it too is what I want to know. [quote]
He is Liberian. That is a very distinctive look despite his skin tone. He was stopped “for fitting the description”…of a black man…who was not Liberian. He “self identified” as LIBERIAN (you know, since people made such an issue before of what Zimmerman “self identified” as).
[/quote] FWIW I was not one of those people. I also agree with you that the impression people get of you/how you look is usually what they will label you as. I thought Zimmermann was hispanic/latino upon seeing his mugshot (previously thought he was white because of the name). Turns out he is mixed race… Oh well.
EDIT: Ok, latino/hispanic is not actually a race, my bad. For some reason I keep thinking of it as a race…
[quote]
He wouldn’t have been shot if he hadn’t been stopped for “fitting the description”. The man was coming home after work. He was not the man they were looking for…and none of them saw any negative outcome.[/quote]
We’re talking in circles here man… Plenty of people are stopped by police (of all races) despite not being whomever police may be looking for… And walk away just fine, if perhaps annoyed.
Again, this itself is one event in the course of events that day that lead to his death, but is not the actual cause of it.
“black guy being stopped by police and then shot because of 2 different possiblities” does not equate to “this guy died because he was black”. That’s a logical fallacy.
[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Which one is right?[/quote]
I would defer to the guy who runs the Secret Service, not some guy who writes a book.
[/quote]
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Mind you, he reached for his wallet because that is what they do in his country.[/quote]
WTF is this supposed to do with anything? Do you expect police officers to be experts on the protocols civilians use to interact with LEO in every single country?
In the UNITED STATES, it is a dumb move to run away from cops and then abruptly pull out a wallet. If he didn’t know that, then it is unfortunate, but it doesn’t reflect on the way the officers handled the situation according to the rules and leeway afforded them by the rules of OUR COUNTRY.
Are you suggesting that it is SURPRISING that a cop can walk up to you, identify himself, order you to stop running away and show your hands… and then shoot you when you immediately stop in a poorly lit area and whip out a small black object?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
You shoot 41 shots into something if you are either filled with hate or scared shitless.
There really isn’t another reason when the guy being hit isn’t firing back.
if his color made the cops that scared, then we do have a problem.
if they were filled with that much hate, then we do have a problem.[/quote]
Ah, yeah, because one of the officers slipped and his backup assumed he had been shot? An officer yells, “gun!” and then goes down… you assume the fucker shot him and take him out. Protect the remaining officers from getting hit.
Besides, it was 41 shots fired with 19 hitting. Get it right. You are arguing as if they collectively stood over the body putting round after round into his corpse.
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]TheSouthpaw wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]doogie wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
When blacks have to worry about dying by the hands of those chosen to protect, it is NOTHING like worrying about getting shot by some random gang member.
The Police are a way bigger and more powerful “gang”.
But, of course, seeing as I said this…it will likely get brushed off as irrelevant despite the fact that I doubt most white people fear for their life if they get pulled over by a cop.[/quote]
White people are murdered WAY more often by Black people than Black people are murdered by cops. There is no denying that.
[/quote]
Once again, wouldn’t “getting murdered by cops” be a worse social experience been being murdered by a “criminal”?[/quote]
I am pretty sure the murdered person doesn’t give a fuck who killed them… you know, because they are dead! Quit acting the fool and recognize that if a white person acted half as bad about black people as you do about cops, we would never hear the end of what a vile racist they were. [/quote]
I used the word “social experience” for a reason…in an attempt to include what it does to society as a whole.
This was clearly lost on you…as it seems much comprehension is. You better stick to the insults.
Yes, losing faith and all trust in those chosen to protect is worse than fearing a criminal when it comes to society as a whole. But, of course you will argue against what I say no matter what.[/quote]
If a few scattered cases of racially motivated police brutality legitimately shade the entire black populations view of police then by following your logic the more prevalent scenario of blacks killing whites justifies a “profiled” community view of blacks as aggressive, violent criminals; especially considering cases where gasoline is thrown on a random white and he is burned to death. And we’re talking modern times, not about a dead generation of adults in the 1920’s.
Like it or not, you are supporting “profiling”.[/quote]
No, you are wrong here. Distrusting an organization of people with a codified belief system with a given sworn code of conduct is nothing like attributing the acts of an individual to a race of people without those things.
Yep both of those are credible unbiased news agencies.
One is racialy biased the other one is a Foreign news agency.
Really strecthing here on these “facts”.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]TheSouthpaw wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]doogie wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
When blacks have to worry about dying by the hands of those chosen to protect, it is NOTHING like worrying about getting shot by some random gang member.
The Police are a way bigger and more powerful “gang”.
But, of course, seeing as I said this…it will likely get brushed off as irrelevant despite the fact that I doubt most white people fear for their life if they get pulled over by a cop.[/quote]
White people are murdered WAY more often by Black people than Black people are murdered by cops. There is no denying that.
[/quote]
Once again, wouldn’t “getting murdered by cops” be a worse social experience been being murdered by a “criminal”?[/quote]
I am pretty sure the murdered person doesn’t give a fuck who killed them… you know, because they are dead! Quit acting the fool and recognize that if a white person acted half as bad about black people as you do about cops, we would never hear the end of what a vile racist they were. [/quote]
I used the word “social experience” for a reason…in an attempt to include what it does to society as a whole.
This was clearly lost on you…as it seems much comprehension is. You better stick to the insults.
Yes, losing faith and all trust in those chosen to protect is worse than fearing a criminal when it comes to society as a whole. But, of course you will argue against what I say no matter what.[/quote]
I hate and distrust cops too.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Even if it was racial profiling, what proof is there that THAT lead to him being shot? Not that I discount the possiblity.[/quote]
gee, dude, he wouldn’t have been stopped at all in the first place.
[/quote]
I sort of get where you’re coming from with that, but that is just that… He was stopped because of it… Whether he was shot because of it too is what I want to know. [quote]
He is Liberian. That is a very distinctive look despite his skin tone. He was stopped “for fitting the description”…of a black man…who was not Liberian. He “self identified” as LIBERIAN (you know, since people made such an issue before of what Zimmerman “self identified” as).
[/quote] FWIW I was not one of those people. I also agree with you that the impression people get of you/how you look is usually what they will label you as. I thought Zimmermann was hispanic/latino upon seeing his mugshot (previously thought he was white because of the name). Turns out he is mixed race… Oh well.
?
A logical fallacy? The man was unarmed and held up a wallet to show who he was. From the events I remember, he was cornered when this happened and the guns were already drawn. This was a case that did not get world wide publicity. hell, Wyclef’s song about it is probably more media than it ever got on tv back then. The 90’s were way more “racist” than today…and I am sure we will be able to say the same in ten years about right now.
Realizing this for what it is is not a “logical fallacy”.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]TheSouthpaw wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]doogie wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
When blacks have to worry about dying by the hands of those chosen to protect, it is NOTHING like worrying about getting shot by some random gang member.
The Police are a way bigger and more powerful “gang”.
But, of course, seeing as I said this…it will likely get brushed off as irrelevant despite the fact that I doubt most white people fear for their life if they get pulled over by a cop.[/quote]
White people are murdered WAY more often by Black people than Black people are murdered by cops. There is no denying that.
[/quote]
Once again, wouldn’t “getting murdered by cops” be a worse social experience been being murdered by a “criminal”?[/quote]
I am pretty sure the murdered person doesn’t give a fuck who killed them… you know, because they are dead! Quit acting the fool and recognize that if a white person acted half as bad about black people as you do about cops, we would never hear the end of what a vile racist they were. [/quote]
I used the word “social experience” for a reason…in an attempt to include what it does to society as a whole.
This was clearly lost on you…as it seems much comprehension is. You better stick to the insults.
Yes, losing faith and all trust in those chosen to protect is worse than fearing a criminal when it comes to society as a whole. But, of course you will argue against what I say no matter what.[/quote]
I hate and distrust cops too.
[/quote]
Seriously?
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
No, you are wrong here. Distrusting an organization of people with a codified belief system with a given sworn code of conduct is nothing like attributing the acts of an individual to a race of people without those things.[/quote]
hell…and I didn’t even need to write it.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]TheSouthpaw wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]doogie wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
When blacks have to worry about dying by the hands of those chosen to protect, it is NOTHING like worrying about getting shot by some random gang member.
The Police are a way bigger and more powerful “gang”.
But, of course, seeing as I said this…it will likely get brushed off as irrelevant despite the fact that I doubt most white people fear for their life if they get pulled over by a cop.[/quote]
White people are murdered WAY more often by Black people than Black people are murdered by cops. There is no denying that.
[/quote]
Once again, wouldn’t “getting murdered by cops” be a worse social experience been being murdered by a “criminal”?[/quote]
I am pretty sure the murdered person doesn’t give a fuck who killed them… you know, because they are dead! Quit acting the fool and recognize that if a white person acted half as bad about black people as you do about cops, we would never hear the end of what a vile racist they were. [/quote]
I used the word “social experience” for a reason…in an attempt to include what it does to society as a whole.
This was clearly lost on you…as it seems much comprehension is. You better stick to the insults.
Yes, losing faith and all trust in those chosen to protect is worse than fearing a criminal when it comes to society as a whole. But, of course you will argue against what I say no matter what.[/quote]
I hate and distrust cops too.
[/quote]
Seriously? Aren’t you a fireman?
[quote]overstand wrote:
If either of you had even read the article that thethirdruffian posted, you would realize that the current Secret Service director mentions that 400% figure and says that it is false.
But let’s just ignore that.[/quote]
Both the REMF and the Dwarf have a very selective filter and make errors in only ONE direction.
It’s actually amusing.
[quote]FISCHER613 wrote:
Yep both of those are credible unbiased news agencies.
One is racialy biased the other one is Foreign news agency.
Really strecthing here on these “facts”.
[/quote]
There’s a video of the Director of the Secret Service here