[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
That he fit some description of an actual seriel rapist caused him to be confronted/questioned by the 4 officers. What is wrong with that?
[/quote]
The only match I am aware of is “black”. This guy is African.
I remember this case very well. There was no reason to shoot at the man 41 times.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]TheSouthpaw wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]doogie wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
When blacks have to worry about dying by the hands of those chosen to protect, it is NOTHING like worrying about getting shot by some random gang member.
The Police are a way bigger and more powerful “gang”.
But, of course, seeing as I said this…it will likely get brushed off as irrelevant despite the fact that I doubt most white people fear for their life if they get pulled over by a cop.[/quote]
White people are murdered WAY more often by Black people than Black people are murdered by cops. There is no denying that.
[/quote]
Once again, wouldn’t “getting murdered by cops” be a worse social experience been being murdered by a “criminal”?[/quote]
I am pretty sure the murdered person doesn’t give a fuck who killed them… you know, because they are dead! Quit acting the fool and recognize that if a white person acted half as bad about black people as you do about cops, we would never hear the end of what a vile racist they were. [/quote]
I used the word “social experience” for a reason…in an attempt to include what it does to society as a whole.
This was clearly lost on you…as it seems much comprehension is. You better stick to the insults.
Yes, losing faith and all trust in those chosen to protect is worse than fearing a criminal when it comes to society as a whole. But, of course you will argue against what I say no matter what.[/quote]
If a few scattered cases of racially motivated police brutality legitimately shade the entire black populations view of police then by following your logic the more prevalent scenario of blacks killing whites justifies a “profiled” community view of blacks as aggressive, violent criminals; especially considering cases where gasoline is thrown on a random white and he is burned to death. And we’re talking modern times, not about a dead generation of adults in the 1920’s.
Like it or not, you are supporting “profiling”.
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
I remember this case very well. There was no reason to shoot at the man 41 times. [/quote]
Mind you, he reached for his wallet because that is what they do in his country. The man was assassinated for “fitting the description”…that to this day is “black man” from what I have seen.
You shoot 41 shots into something if you are either filled with hate or scared shitless.
There really isn’t another reason when the guy being hit isn’t firing back.
if his color made the cops that scared, then we do have a problem.
if they were filled with that much hate, then we do have a problem.
Either way, the shockwaves through the black community equal “distrust of police” and “fear of death when pulled over”.
[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
I probably agree with you on most aspects of this case, but I’m sorry, I just can’t imagine someone inflicting that kind of damage on themselves. It is considerably more likely that his injuries were the result of the scuffle between the two. Is it possible that Zimmerman did that to cover for himself? Yes…but IMO highly unlikely.[/quote]
Hey, man, if a conspiracy theorist says so, it MUST be true!
LOOSE CHANGE!!! GRASSY KNOLL!!! LONG LIVE TUPAC!!!
Shit, how lucky is this guy??? You know, cuz the eyewitnesses who saw the fight mistakenly saw Martin on top of Zimmerman and punching him when it was RALLY Zimmerman hitting himself in the face and on the back of the head while Martin lay dead on the ground.
What a fucking joke. Talk about grasping at straws.
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
If a few scattered cases of racially motivated police brutality legitimately shade the entire black populations view of police then by following your logic the more prevalent scenario of blacks killing whites justifies a “profiled” community view of blacks as aggressive, violent criminals; especially considering cases where gasoline is thrown on a random white and he is burned to death. And we’re talking modern times, not about a dead generation of adults in the 1920’s.
Like it or not, you are supporting “profiling”.[/quote]
A few scattered cases?
How many cases do you think it takes to lose all faith in the PD and taken one step further, “establishment”?
I even posted the stats related to brutal searches by police based on race.
I mean, seriously, if whites were targeted like this, you would not see the police as “help”.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
I remember this case very well. There was no reason to shoot at the man 41 times. [/quote]
Mind you, he reached for his wallet because that is what they do in his country. The man was assassinated for “fitting the description”…that to this day is “black man” from what I have seen.
You shoot 41 shots into something if you are either filled with hate or scared shitless.
There really isn’t another reason when the guy being hit isn’t firing back.
if his color made the cops that scared, then we do have a problem.
if they were filled with that much hate, then we do have a problem.
Either way, the shockwaves through the black community equal “distrust of police” and “fear of death when pulled over”.[/quote]
Not surprising where our own president has received more death threats, more accusations of his birth, religion etc than any recent president. Even one talking-head idiot said Obama has a deep seated hatred for white people.
Hatred is bred on the creation of a false enemy.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
I remember this case very well. There was no reason to shoot at the man 41 times. [/quote]
You throw gasoline on to something and light it on fire if you are either filled with hate or scared shitless.
There really isn’t another reason when the guy being burned isn’t firing back.
if his color made the blacks that scared, then we do have a problem.
if they were filled with that much hate, then we do have a problem.
Either way, the shockwaves through the white community equal “distrust of blacks” and “fear of death when near blacks”.[/quote]
FTR, I do not condone Professor X’s logic.
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
That he fit some description of an actual seriel rapist caused him to be confronted/questioned by the 4 officers. What is wrong with that?
[/quote]
The only match I am aware of is “black”. This guy is African.
I remember this case very well. There was no reason to shoot at the man 41 times. [/quote]
If they were lying about the wallet, then you are correct about there being no reason to shoot the man. Otherwise I cannot agree.
The number of times they fired does not matter here. We have a terminal ballistics thread in the combat forum, reading some of the links provided therein may shed light on the issue of how many bullets are often fired in various LE situations. You are focusing on the wrong thing there.
[quote]anonym wrote:
[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
I probably agree with you on most aspects of this case, but I’m sorry, I just can’t imagine someone inflicting that kind of damage on themselves. It is considerably more likely that his injuries were the result of the scuffle between the two. Is it possible that Zimmerman did that to cover for himself? Yes…but IMO highly unlikely.[/quote]
Hey, man, if a conspiracy theorist says so, it MUST be true!
LOOSE CHANGE!!! GRASSY KNOLL!!! LONG LIVE TUPAC!!!
Shit, how lucky is this guy??? You know, cuz the eyewitnesses who saw the fight mistakenly saw Martin on top of Zimmerman and punching him when it was RALLY Zimmerman hitting himself in the face and on the back of the head while Martin lay dead on the ground.
What a fucking joke. Talk about grasping at straws.[/quote]
You do realize that he’s saying the later and not the former? He’s saying it was highly unlikely.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
I remember this case very well. There was no reason to shoot at the man 41 times. [/quote]
Mind you, he reached for his wallet because that is what they do in his country. The man was assassinated for “fitting the description”…that to this day is “black man” from what I have seen.
You shoot 41 shots into something if you are either filled with hate or scared shitless.
There really isn’t another reason when the guy being hit isn’t firing back.
if his color made the cops that scared, then we do have a problem.
if they were filled with that much hate, then we do have a problem.
Either way, the shockwaves through the black community equal “distrust of police” and “fear of death when pulled over”.[/quote]
Not surprising where our own president has received more death threats, more accusations of his birth, religion etc than any recent president. Even one talking-head idiot said Obama has a deep seated hatred for white people.
Hatred is bred on the creation of a false enemy.
[/quote]
If you think more people hate on Obama than Bush the 2nd… you are smoking the 70’s dope.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
If a few scattered cases of racially motivated police brutality legitimately shade the entire black populations view of police then by following your logic the more prevalent scenario of blacks killing whites justifies a “profiled” community view of blacks as aggressive, violent criminals; especially considering cases where gasoline is thrown on a random white and he is burned to death. And we’re talking modern times, not about a dead generation of adults in the 1920’s.
Like it or not, you are supporting “profiling”.[/quote]
A few scattered cases?
How many cases do you think it takes to lose all faith in the PD and taken one step further, “establishment”?
I even posted the stats related to brutal searches by police based on race.
I mean, seriously, if whites were targeted like this, you would not see the police as “help”.
[/quote]
How many cases of unsolicited black on white violence does it take to lose all faith in blacks? I understand the point you’re making, do you understand your logical fallacy of a double standard?
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
I remember this case very well. There was no reason to shoot at the man 41 times. [/quote]
Mind you, he reached for his wallet because that is what they do in his country. The man was assassinated for “fitting the description”…that to this day is “black man” from what I have seen.
You shoot 41 shots into something if you are either filled with hate or scared shitless.
There really isn’t another reason when the guy being hit isn’t firing back.
if his color made the cops that scared, then we do have a problem.
if they were filled with that much hate, then we do have a problem.
Either way, the shockwaves through the black community equal “distrust of police” and “fear of death when pulled over”.[/quote]
Not surprising where our own president has received more death threats, more accusations of his birth, religion etc than any recent president. Even one talking-head idiot said Obama has a deep seated hatred for white people.
Hatred is bred on the creation of a false enemy.
[/quote]
If you think more people hate on Obama than Bush the 2nd… you are smoking the 70’s dope.
[/quote]
Wow…really?
Bush was made fun of more because of his own speech problems, past history with COCAINE, and his mannerisms.
He was receiving death threats like this?
[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
LOL ok you win…Gorge Killerman (how’s that? maybe not insulting enough?)[/quote]
HAHAHA!! No you win. I’ll call him Killerman from now on.
[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
…was a highly trained killing machine, weighing in at a lean, mean 220. He killed Trayvon and then inflicted the injuries on himself to make it look like a fair fight. [/quote]
Hahahahahaha!!
This is likely. There’re actually conspiracy theories out there that suggest his ‘‘injuries’’ may have been self inflicted.
[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
I mean, I agree with most of what you have to say, but it just seems like you are willfully ignoring some facts. When you say stuff like “There’s no way Trayvon knocked George down with one punch” it just makes me think you’ve never been in a fight or had any experience in those kind of matters.
Hell yeah a good punch will knock somebody down…probably not knock them unconscious, but knock them off-balance and to the ground. Did Trayvon hit him first? Nobody knows, but if he did and Zimmerman wasn’t expecting it, George would have found himself on the floor. [/quote]
Big fighter here. Martial Artist. over 15 years of experience in that field. I’ve brawled with men and women alike. I know what a powerful punch feels like. I agree with you that a well connected punch to the face will knock someone off balance. But in this situation Killerman outweighed Martin by 100 more pounds. And I take the point Tray was more athletic than him. Was that enough to propel Killerman to the ground? Shook him a little, perhaps, but caused him to hit the canvas? We don’t know.
But let’s say that happened. For a big guy with a history of violent behaviour, and with adrenaline pumping through his veins after chasing and cornering the boy, Killerman must’ve been one weak motherfucker. No wonder carrying a gun gave him that extra bit of courage.
Anyway, as you said, and that was originally my main point in my other post, there’s no proof that Trayvon threw the first punch. There are no proof of broken nose or bashed up back of the head so far. We only go with what Killerman had stated, although other witnesses 'accounts contradict him. ie: his neighbour, Mary - now shut down – recalling seeing him on top of Trayvon that night.
[/quote]
Trayvon was from 6’1 to 6’3 and anywhere from 140-160 according to different reports
George is 5’8 and 190 (was stated as high as 240 -but according to statement that ProfX said a friend of georges: that george lost 50pds-
So a person who is taller and only lighter from 30-50pds can’t knock someone down with a punch and control him on the ground?
And DN you need to keep current of the latest news because ALL of the story is trickling out not just bits and pieces that were released to cause a stir by the Media.
So lets logicaly look into this tragedy and not emotionaly please and discuss the facts of the case so far.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
That he fit some description of an actual seriel rapist caused him to be confronted/questioned by the 4 officers. What is wrong with that?
[/quote]
The only match I am aware of is “black”. This guy is African.
I remember this case very well. There was no reason to shoot at the man 41 times. [/quote]
If they were lying about the wallet, then you are correct about there being no reason to shoot the man. Otherwise I cannot agree.
The number of times they fired does not matter here. We have a terminal ballistics thread in the combat forum, reading some of the links provided therein may shed light on the issue of how many bullets are often fired in various LE situations. You are focusing on the wrong thing there.
[/quote]
THis is why I posted earlier in thread about what I do when I get pulled over. Sometimes it’s by a white cop sometimes a different race, but I do what I do when I get pulled over because of the violence on individuals by law enforcement period. And most of those cops happen to be white. (At least whats reported) Turn the car off, roll down all the windows and put my hands on the outside of the vehichle or on the steering wheel. I ask if I can reach for my info when he gets there because i don’t want any “convienent confusion” as to where my hands were and “Oh I thought he had a gun!”
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
I remember this case very well. There was no reason to shoot at the man 41 times. [/quote]
Mind you, he reached for his wallet because that is what they do in his country. The man was assassinated for “fitting the description”…that to this day is “black man” from what I have seen.
You shoot 41 shots into something if you are either filled with hate or scared shitless.
There really isn’t another reason when the guy being hit isn’t firing back.
if his color made the cops that scared, then we do have a problem.
if they were filled with that much hate, then we do have a problem.
Either way, the shockwaves through the black community equal “distrust of police” and “fear of death when pulled over”.[/quote]
Not surprising where our own president has received more death threats, more accusations of his birth, religion etc than any recent president. Even one talking-head idiot said Obama has a deep seated hatred for white people.
Hatred is bred on the creation of a false enemy.
[/quote]
If you think more people hate on Obama than Bush the 2nd… you are smoking the 70’s dope.
[/quote]
I haven’t smoked dope in 26 years.
“Hating on” is not the same as death threats.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
That he fit some description of an actual seriel rapist caused him to be confronted/questioned by the 4 officers. What is wrong with that?
[/quote]
The only match I am aware of is “black”. This guy is African.
[/quote] Even if it was racial profiling, what proof is there that THAT lead to him being shot? Not that I discount the possiblity. My problem with your statements is exactly that (and the shotcount thing).
If these guys shot him because he was black then I support you all the way. But that’s just it, I’m not seeing any proof of that and so I can only assume things, which I’d rather not. [quote]
[quote]
The ensuing shooting is a different story… I have no idea whether the officers lied about the events that took place or not. Might be you’re right and they are a bunch of racist assholes who shot him because he was black or whatever. But that is not at all provable fact from what I know of the case. Could well be you know something I don’t, as I didn’t hear about it back when it happened and am just catching up because you brought it up. [/quote]
They shot 41 bullets into an unarmed man and walked.
[/quote] Perfectly fine from a legal standpoint if they were right in their statements. Wrong otherwise. [quote]
It wasn’t a purse. It was a man’s wallet that he reached for to show his ID.
[/quote] Yes, I am aware of that. The issue is whether they knew at that time or not. [quote]
41 shots. Yes, that sounds reasonable.
[/quote] Yes, it does, provided they didn’t lie (which I don’t know of course).
4 officers each firing his handgun roughly 10 times (or whatever, 41 total basically) is entirely reasonable in a perceived gunfight, both from a training and terminal ballistics perspective…
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Even one talking-head idiot said Obama has a deep seated hatred for white people.[/quote]
Yeah, I remember that.
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
That he fit some description of an actual seriel rapist caused him to be confronted/questioned by the 4 officers. What is wrong with that?
[/quote]
The only match I am aware of is “black”. This guy is African.
I remember this case very well. There was no reason to shoot at the man 41 times. [/quote]
If they were lying about the wallet, then you are correct about there being no reason to shoot the man. Otherwise I cannot agree.
The number of times they fired does not matter here. We have a terminal ballistics thread in the combat forum, reading some of the links provided therein may shed light on the issue of how many bullets are often fired in various LE situations. You are focusing on the wrong thing there.
[/quote]
THis is why I posted earlier in thread about what I do when I get pulled over. Sometimes it’s by a white cop sometimes a different race, but I do what I do when I get pulled over because of the violence on individuals by law enforcement period. And most of those cops happen to be white. (At least whats reported) Turn the car off, roll down all the windows and put my hands on the outside of the vehichle or on the steering wheel. I ask if I can reach for my info when he gets there because i don’t want any “convienent confusion” as to where my hands were and “Oh I thought he had a gun!”[/quote]
I do the same thing you do when I get pulled over, and I’m nervous as hell even as a white guy in Germany.
I am not trying to be antagonistic or anything. The thing is… It is hardly impossible for the officers to mistake that purse for a gun in the dark. It might well be a lie to cover their asses, don’t get me wrong. But unless we can somehow prove that… What are you going to do? Lock them up because you think they were making excuses? That’s no different than some white guy shooting a black guy because he thinks black guys are dangerous to him.
[quote]FISCHER613 wrote:
[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
LOL ok you win…Gorge Killerman (how’s that? maybe not insulting enough?)[/quote]
HAHAHA!! No you win. I’ll call him Killerman from now on.
[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
…was a highly trained killing machine, weighing in at a lean, mean 220. He killed Trayvon and then inflicted the injuries on himself to make it look like a fair fight. [/quote]
Hahahahahaha!!
This is likely. There’re actually conspiracy theories out there that suggest his ‘‘injuries’’ may have been self inflicted.
[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
I mean, I agree with most of what you have to say, but it just seems like you are willfully ignoring some facts. When you say stuff like “There’s no way Trayvon knocked George down with one punch” it just makes me think you’ve never been in a fight or had any experience in those kind of matters.
Hell yeah a good punch will knock somebody down…probably not knock them unconscious, but knock them off-balance and to the ground. Did Trayvon hit him first? Nobody knows, but if he did and Zimmerman wasn’t expecting it, George would have found himself on the floor. [/quote]
Big fighter here. Martial Artist. over 15 years of experience in that field. I’ve brawled with men and women alike. I know what a powerful punch feels like. I agree with you that a well connected punch to the face will knock someone off balance. But in this situation Killerman outweighed Martin by 100 more pounds. And I take the point Tray was more athletic than him. Was that enough to propel Killerman to the ground? Shook him a little, perhaps, but caused him to hit the canvas? We don’t know.
But let’s say that happened. For a big guy with a history of violent behaviour, and with adrenaline pumping through his veins after chasing and cornering the boy, Killerman must’ve been one weak motherfucker. No wonder carrying a gun gave him that extra bit of courage.
Anyway, as you said, and that was originally my main point in my other post, there’s no proof that Trayvon threw the first punch. There are no proof of broken nose or bashed up back of the head so far. We only go with what Killerman had stated, although other witnesses 'accounts contradict him. ie: his neighbour, Mary - now shut down – recalling seeing him on top of Trayvon that night.
[/quote]
Trayvon was from 6’1 to 6’3 and anywhere from 140-160 according to different reports
George is 5’8 and 190 (was stated as high as 240 -but according to statement that ProfX said a friend of georges: that george lost 50pds-
So a person who is taller and only lighter from 30-50pds can’t knock someone down with a punch and control him on the ground?
And DN you need to keep current of the latest news because ALL of the story is trickling out not just bits and pieces that were released to cause a stir by the Media.
So lets logicaly look into this tragedy and not emotionaly please and discuss the facts of the case so far.[/quote]
Personally, I think it’s fine (and human) to get emotional about it… It just shouldn’t end up with people making fallacious arguments and ignoring facts to prove some point and such… That’s my main issue…
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Even if it was racial profiling, what proof is there that THAT lead to him being shot? Not that I discount the possiblity.[/quote]
gee, dude, he wouldn’t have been stopped at all in the first place. He is Liberian. That is a very distinctive look despite his skin tone. He was stopped “for fitting the description”…of a black man…who was not Liberian. He “self identified” as LIBERIAN (you know, since people made such an issue before of what Zimmerman “self identified” as).
He wouldn’t have been shot if he hadn’t been stopped for “fitting the description”. The man was coming home after work. He was not the man they were looking for…and none of them saw any negative outcome.