Black Teen Shot 2

Off Topic
601

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

Yep. Advised to stand down by 911 dispatchers, but chose to pursue and engage the “suspect”.

Guaranteed, if Zimmerman is ever brought before a jury, the prosecution will be hammering that point HARD.[/quote]

And the defense will be hammering the point home that it is not known who “engaged” whom, as well as pointing out that the circumstantial evidence (i.e. the fact that the evidence of a fight and the location of the body both being near Zimmerman’s car) supports Zimmerman’s story more than any other story that has been presented. There is more than enough evidence to establish reasonable doubt here. I have already stated that I think there is enough evidence to convict Zimmerman of assault, though, and that is what the DA should do. There just doesn’t seem to be enough evidence to dispute the self defense claim.

602

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
‘Back toward the SUV’ implies that Zimmerman walked a ways from his car and then walked back, which is what Zimmerman claims, but does not mean it is factual. If Zimmerman got out to confront Martin who was relatively near the SUV then no back tracking is necessary. Where Martin’s was found does not indicate the movement of Zimmerman and from what the police work has appeared to be to this point, I would guess that they did not look for foot tracks on the ground to corroborate Zimmerman’s account of the incident.

Memory is a tricky thing, and returning to his car may have meant nothing more than turning his head or even having the intention to turn around. If he got a broken nose and other head injuries then there is a good chance his memory is not real clear of what happened just before or after everything went down. I am suggesting that Zimmerman is intentionally lying, but he made very well be filling in holes in his memory to make sense of the event.[/quote]

Interestesting speculation, but the burden remains on the prosecution to provide evidence.

I don’t see any, and given how quick the cops were to release, they didn’t either.[/quote]

You know, the early news reports made it seem like Zimmerman was released at the scene and did not seek medical care at all, but in a few of the recent articles posted here, it is said that Zimmerman was “checked out” (I assume they meant by the medical personnel at the scene) and was cleared to be taken in for questioning, which he was. He was only released after being questioned and his story checked out with the evidence and it was determined they did not have enough to arrest him.
[/quote]
Standard due process. See the links I posted a while back.

603

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Poor analogy.
A better one would be “that’s like being chased and cornered by a barking dog, and suddenly the dog is distracted by a noise and turns away momentarily…”[/quote]

Turns away momentarily?

If Zimmerman was walking back to his car without having you in his line of sight… it is SMARTER to use the night and rain to your advantage and run the 200 feet to your house than it is to try and play commando.

Who the fuck charges someone with a gun when they are walking away and your house is a fraction of a minute’s run down the road?

Yes, bullets are faster than you… but they hit you even quicker and more reliably when you are two feet away instead of 200.[/quote]

Two guys pumped up on adrenaline facing each other… one turns away momentarily. Damn right one will attack the other. How unrealistic is that?
[/quote]
And there we have, Trayvon carrying the responsibility for escalating the situation to violence.[/quote]
And Zimmerman creating the situation in the first place, by choice, not because he had to. [/quote]

Yep. Advised to stand down by 911 dispatchers, but chose to pursue and engage the “suspect”.

Guaranteed, if Zimmerman is ever brought before a jury, the prosecution will be hammering that point HARD.[/quote]

The two questions I think are important are:

  1. Does Zimmerman follow Martin if he doesn’t have a gun? IMO, if doing something is stupid or in poor judgment if you are unarmed then being armed doesn’t make it any less poor of a decision. Again, he isn’t a cop whose job requires that he enter into potentially deadly situations.

  2. Does Zimmerman do anything if Martin isn’t black?

Maybe the answers don’t make Zimmerman guilty of a crime but they may not make him some innocent victim either. And I think that this is what angers blacks the most about the whole thing; the idea that it all stemmed from racial profiling. It set into motion a chain of events all guided by the poor judgment of both parties. Trayvon was a kid so poor judgment comes with that but what was Zimmerman’s excuse? He had the gun, he needed to be the smarter of the two. I mean, look at his life now: was it worth it just to play cops and robbers?

604

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:

[quote]L.S. wrote:

I have seen far better examples in europe, though that is just MHO. and I totally agree with you about the media making it a race issue. welcome to the media.

I am not white. I have been discriminated against. also, I think you’re contributing to the problem by making the entire ordeal about a white guy shooting a black dude, instead of a overzealous neighborhood watchmen starting a confrontation with a kid and a gun coming into play.

your emotions play though your post and you are VERY angry and accusing. had I been white, and made the accusations you are making toward me right now, I would be labeled as racist. I feel discriminated against by YOU in this post because of your attitude.

Also, I think you’re racist.

I won’t continue this conversation with you because I will not support this kind of mentality.

Have a nice day :slight_smile:

[/quote]

Hahaha!! Well thank you for making me laugh so hard.

You feel discriminated against by me. LMFAO!! Just for suggesting that you probably never been discriminated against and assuming you were white? BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH!!! That’s the most pile of bullshit I ever read in my life.

And, I’m a racist for pointing out racism/racial profiling in a murder. This sounds nothing new to me, buddy. In other boards, any black person who brings up Zimmerman racial profiling and racial slur is jumped on by others and called a racist. LOL!! The racial profiling/racial slurs are facts that will not be ignored in a court room - IF Zimmerman is ever arrested – why should we put that aside? To make some people happy because racial profiling is dead?

Hell, Even Prof X has been called a racist by posters in this place and his points were more sensible than mine. Damn!

Blacks just can’t win. Lol.

G’day to you too.
[/quote]
You really don’t see your racism, do you?

Do you know the definition of racism? Seriously?

605

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
2. Does Zimmerman do anything if Martin isn’t black? … And I think that this is what angers blacks the most about the whole thing; the idea that it all stemmed from racial profiling. [/quote]

Couple things:

Racial profiling is going, hmmmm, we have some burglaries . . . lets go question all the black folk.

Rocial profiling is NOT going, hmmmm, we have some burglaries, eyewitnesses saw youngish black men breaking in, all wearing hoodies, let’s be on the look out for youngish black men wearing hoodies who don’t live in the neighborhood.

606

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:

[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
I cringe everytime I read “Zimmercunt” or “Zimmmerfuck”…there’s no better pun you could come up with? [/quote]

Lol.

Meh, it’s quite understandable. The people who will mostly cringe are Zimmertwat’s supporters.

I won’t carry a torch for a remorseless kid killer.

[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
…that guy was… untrained fuck [/quote]

Prove it.

[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
…who would have lost in a fight to Trayvon 10 times out of 10. [/quote]

Prove it.[/quote]

LOL ok you win…Gorge Killerman (how’s that? maybe not insulting enough?) was a highly trained killing machine, weighing in at a lean, mean 220. He killed Trayvon and then inflicted the injuries on himself to make it look like a fair fight.

I mean, I agree with most of what you have to say, but it just seems like you are willfully ignoring some facts. When you say stuff like “There’s no way Trayvon knocked George down with one punch” it just makes me think you’ve never been in a fight or had any experience in those kind of matters.

Hell yeah a good punch will knock somebody down…probably not knock them unconscious, but knock them off-balance and to the ground. Did Trayvon hit him first? Nobody knows, but if he did and Zimmerman wasn’t expecting it, George would have found himself on the floor.

Also, some of you are saying that after Zimmerman drew his gun or made it visible, Trayvon’s best move was to bumrush him? Are you retarded? If someone draws a gun, you do what he says–FACT. That hero stuff is best reserved for the movies.

607

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Poor analogy.
A better one would be “that’s like being chased and cornered by a barking dog, and suddenly the dog is distracted by a noise and turns away momentarily…”[/quote]

Turns away momentarily?

If Zimmerman was walking back to his car without having you in his line of sight… it is SMARTER to use the night and rain to your advantage and run the 200 feet to your house than it is to try and play commando.

Who the fuck charges someone with a gun when they are walking away and your house is a fraction of a minute’s run down the road?

Yes, bullets are faster than you… but they hit you even quicker and more reliably when you are two feet away instead of 200.[/quote]

Two guys pumped up on adrenaline facing each other… one turns away momentarily. Damn right one will attack the other. How unrealistic is that?
[/quote]
And there we have, Trayvon carrying the responsibility for escalating the situation to violence.[/quote]
And Zimmerman creating the situation in the first place, by choice, not because he had to. [/quote]
This is such a stupid argument.

I run on a public sidewalk and often follow people and get right up on them before passing. I could easily be perceived as menacing and technically, by your logic, if I were attacked it’s because I “started it” by giving the perception of a menace.

I tell you what though, you attack me for following you in public for ANY reason and I will rock your shit. Even if I just feel like getting behind you and walking for miles. Why? Because you attacked me and I defended myself. Italics on you and me, I don’t know how to do that.

608

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
2. Does Zimmerman do anything if Martin isn’t black? … And I think that this is what angers blacks the most about the whole thing; the idea that it all stemmed from racial profiling. [/quote]

Couple things:

Racial profiling is going, hmmmm, we have some burglaries . . . lets go question all the black folk.

Rocial profiling is NOT going, hmmmm, we have some burglaries, eyewitnesses saw youngish black men breaking in, all wearing hoodies, let’s be on the look out for youngish black men wearing hoodies who don’t live in the neighborhood.[/quote]

Actually, it is. Why? Because race is part of the profile. It is also racist because it assumes that only young blacks in hoodies are committing, and even capable of committing, those crimes.If you were looking for a particular person and gave race as part of the description that would be different. 911 was committed by men from the ME; let’s be on the lookout for men from the ME. That will work.

609

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Poor analogy.
A better one would be “that’s like being chased and cornered by a barking dog, and suddenly the dog is distracted by a noise and turns away momentarily…”[/quote]

Turns away momentarily?

If Zimmerman was walking back to his car without having you in his line of sight… it is SMARTER to use the night and rain to your advantage and run the 200 feet to your house than it is to try and play commando.

Who the fuck charges someone with a gun when they are walking away and your house is a fraction of a minute’s run down the road?

Yes, bullets are faster than you… but they hit you even quicker and more reliably when you are two feet away instead of 200.[/quote]

Two guys pumped up on adrenaline facing each other… one turns away momentarily. Damn right one will attack the other. How unrealistic is that?
[/quote]
And there we have, Trayvon carrying the responsibility for escalating the situation to violence.[/quote]
And Zimmerman creating the situation in the first place, by choice, not because he had to. [/quote]

Yep. Advised to stand down by 911 dispatchers, but chose to pursue and engage the “suspect”.

Guaranteed, if Zimmerman is ever brought before a jury, the prosecution will be hammering that point HARD.[/quote]
It’s a totally irrelevant point to what would become an educated jury for reasons already discussed and evidently intentionally ignored.

610

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Yep. Advised to stand down by 911 dispatchers, but chose to pursue and engage the “suspect”.

Guaranteed, if Zimmerman is ever brought before a jury, the prosecution will be hammering that point HARD.[/quote]

And this is another stupid talking point…NEWSFLASH: dispatchers have to tell you that. What, you think they’re gonna say “OK you got the greenlight to pursue and restrain the suspect”? LOL and then the caller gets F’ed up and sues the police department for telling him to do so…

For liability reasons they can’t even tell you to perform CPR–so stop acting like what the dispatcher said is unique to this case.

611

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
2. Does Zimmerman do anything if Martin isn’t black? … And I think that this is what angers blacks the most about the whole thing; the idea that it all stemmed from racial profiling. [/quote]

Couple things:

Racial profiling is going, hmmmm, we have some burglaries . . . lets go question all the black folk.

Rocial profiling is NOT going, hmmmm, we have some burglaries, eyewitnesses saw youngish black men breaking in, all wearing hoodies, let’s be on the look out for youngish black men wearing hoodies who don’t live in the neighborhood.[/quote]

Actually, it is. Why? Because race is part of the profile. It is also racist because it assumes that only young blacks in hoodies are committing, and even capable of committing, those crimes.If you were looking for a particular person and gave race as part of the description that would be different. 911 was committed by men from the ME; let’s be on the lookout for men from the ME. That will work. [/quote]

Statistically, it does work.

612

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Standard due process. See the links I posted a while back. [/quote]
I read those (I have read all the posts on the two threads on this) and I know from personal experience when I was taken in for questioning when I was accused of a crime almost as serious as murder that this is standard procedure. If they do not have enough evidence to make an arrest, you go free, usually. The day that that is not the case, I will find another country to live in.

613

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Poor analogy.
A better one would be “that’s like being chased and cornered by a barking dog, and suddenly the dog is distracted by a noise and turns away momentarily…”[/quote]

Turns away momentarily?

If Zimmerman was walking back to his car without having you in his line of sight… it is SMARTER to use the night and rain to your advantage and run the 200 feet to your house than it is to try and play commando.

Who the fuck charges someone with a gun when they are walking away and your house is a fraction of a minute’s run down the road?

Yes, bullets are faster than you… but they hit you even quicker and more reliably when you are two feet away instead of 200.[/quote]

Two guys pumped up on adrenaline facing each other… one turns away momentarily. Damn right one will attack the other. How unrealistic is that?
[/quote]
And there we have, Trayvon carrying the responsibility for escalating the situation to violence.[/quote]
And Zimmerman creating the situation in the first place, by choice, not because he had to. [/quote]

Yep. Advised to stand down by 911 dispatchers, but chose to pursue and engage the “suspect”.

Guaranteed, if Zimmerman is ever brought before a jury, the prosecution will be hammering that point HARD.[/quote]

The two questions I think are important are:

  1. Does Zimmerman follow Martin if he doesn’t have a gun? IMO, if doing something is stupid or in poor judgment if you are unarmed then being armed doesn’t make it any less poor of a decision. Again, he isn’t a cop whose job requires that he enter into potentially deadly situations.

  2. Does Zimmerman do anything if Martin isn’t black?

Maybe the answers don’t make Zimmerman guilty of a crime but they may not make him some innocent victim either. And I think that this is what angers blacks the most about the whole thing; the idea that it all stemmed from racial profiling. It set into motion a chain of events all guided by the poor judgment of both parties. Trayvon was a kid so poor judgment comes with that but what was Zimmerman’s excuse? He had the gun, he needed to be the smarter of the two. I mean, look at his life now: was it worth it just to play cops and robbers? [/quote]
Both what if scenarios are totally irrelevant to the actual case and are not important at all. The only answers would be imagined assumptions.

614

And to clarify some facts here, Zimmerman got out of the car and started following Trayvon on foot WHILE he was on the phone with 911.

For all we know, he could have turned around as soon as the dispatcher told him he didn’t need to follow.

615

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Poor analogy.
A better one would be “that’s like being chased and cornered by a barking dog, and suddenly the dog is distracted by a noise and turns away momentarily…”[/quote]

Turns away momentarily?

If Zimmerman was walking back to his car without having you in his line of sight… it is SMARTER to use the night and rain to your advantage and run the 200 feet to your house than it is to try and play commando.

Who the fuck charges someone with a gun when they are walking away and your house is a fraction of a minute’s run down the road?

Yes, bullets are faster than you… but they hit you even quicker and more reliably when you are two feet away instead of 200.[/quote]

Two guys pumped up on adrenaline facing each other… one turns away momentarily. Damn right one will attack the other. How unrealistic is that?
[/quote]
And there we have, Trayvon carrying the responsibility for escalating the situation to violence.[/quote]
And Zimmerman creating the situation in the first place, by choice, not because he had to. [/quote]
This is such a stupid argument.

I run on a public sidewalk and often follow people and get right up on them before passing. I could easily be perceived as menacing and technically, by your logic, if I were attacked it’s because I “started it” by giving the perception of a menace.

I tell you what though, you attack me for following you in public for ANY reason and I will rock your shit. Even if I just feel like getting behind you and walking for miles. Why? Because you attacked me and I defended myself. Italics on you and me, I don’t know how to do that.[/quote]
Actually your statement is stupid because you aren’t dong what Zimmerman was doing. Also, if you saw Zimmerman following someone but it wasn’t a black 17 year old but an 8 year old white girl, what would you think? What would you do? If you saw a grown man following your child, and it was obvious he was deliberately following your child, what would you do? Maybe now you can see the situation from Trayvon’s eyes.

And isn’t self-defense in general based on perception?

616

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
2. Does Zimmerman do anything if Martin isn’t black? … And I think that this is what angers blacks the most about the whole thing; the idea that it all stemmed from racial profiling. [/quote]

Couple things:

Racial profiling is going, hmmmm, we have some burglaries . . . lets go question all the black folk.

Rocial profiling is NOT going, hmmmm, we have some burglaries, eyewitnesses saw youngish black men breaking in, all wearing hoodies, let’s be on the look out for youngish black men wearing hoodies who don’t live in the neighborhood.[/quote]

Actually, it is. Why? Because race is part of the profile. It is also racist because it assumes that only young blacks in hoodies are committing, and even capable of committing, those crimes.If you were looking for a particular person and gave race as part of the description that would be different. 911 was committed by men from the ME; let’s be on the lookout for men from the ME. That will work. [/quote]
You’re playing dumb here and you know it.

617

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
2. Does Zimmerman do anything if Martin isn’t black? … And I think that this is what angers blacks the most about the whole thing; the idea that it all stemmed from racial profiling. [/quote]

Couple things:

Racial profiling is going, hmmmm, we have some burglaries . . . lets go question all the black folk.

Rocial profiling is NOT going, hmmmm, we have some burglaries, eyewitnesses saw youngish black men breaking in, all wearing hoodies, let’s be on the look out for youngish black men wearing hoodies who don’t live in the neighborhood.[/quote]

Actually, it is. Why? Because race is part of the profile. It is also racist because it assumes that only young blacks in hoodies are committing, and even capable of committing, those crimes.If you were looking for a particular person and gave race as part of the description that would be different. 911 was committed by men from the ME; let’s be on the lookout for men from the ME. That will work. [/quote]
You’re playing dumb here and you know it.[/quote]

No, it is racial profiling. The smarter thing to do is behavior profiling.

618

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
2. Does Zimmerman do anything if Martin isn’t black? … And I think that this is what angers blacks the most about the whole thing; the idea that it all stemmed from racial profiling. [/quote]

Couple things:

Racial profiling is going, hmmmm, we have some burglaries . . . lets go question all the black folk.

Rocial profiling is NOT going, hmmmm, we have some burglaries, eyewitnesses saw youngish black men breaking in, all wearing hoodies, let’s be on the look out for youngish black men wearing hoodies who don’t live in the neighborhood.[/quote]

Actually, it is. Why? Because race is part of the profile. It is also racist because it assumes that only young blacks in hoodies are committing, and even capable of committing, those crimes.If you were looking for a particular person and gave race as part of the description that would be different. 911 was committed by men from the ME; let’s be on the lookout for men from the ME. That will work. [/quote]

Nope. You might want to go read the law, perhaps a guidebook for police, before proving yourself an idiot like you just did.

Racial profiling is when you suspect of class of people of criminal behavior because of their race.

Racial profiling is not looking for people who match a suspect’s description.

Big difference.

If a blond white soldier raped someone at a party, blond white soldiers should expect to get questioned from the police. Saw this happen outside Fort Bragg, BTW. All the blond white enlisted who had privileges that weekend were pulled out for ID by partygoers.

619

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Poor analogy.
A better one would be “that’s like being chased and cornered by a barking dog, and suddenly the dog is distracted by a noise and turns away momentarily…”[/quote]

Turns away momentarily?

If Zimmerman was walking back to his car without having you in his line of sight… it is SMARTER to use the night and rain to your advantage and run the 200 feet to your house than it is to try and play commando.

Who the fuck charges someone with a gun when they are walking away and your house is a fraction of a minute’s run down the road?

Yes, bullets are faster than you… but they hit you even quicker and more reliably when you are two feet away instead of 200.[/quote]

Two guys pumped up on adrenaline facing each other… one turns away momentarily. Damn right one will attack the other. How unrealistic is that?
[/quote]
And there we have, Trayvon carrying the responsibility for escalating the situation to violence.[/quote]
And Zimmerman creating the situation in the first place, by choice, not because he had to. [/quote]
This is such a stupid argument.

I run on a public sidewalk and often follow people and get right up on them before passing. I could easily be perceived as menacing and technically, by your logic, if I were attacked it’s because I “started it” by giving the perception of a menace.

I tell you what though, you attack me for following you in public for ANY reason and I will rock your shit. Even if I just feel like getting behind you and walking for miles. Why? Because you attacked me and I defended myself. Italics on you and me, I don’t know how to do that.[/quote]
Actually your statement is stupid because you aren’t dong what Zimmerman was doing. Also, if you saw Zimmerman following someone but it wasn’t a black 17 year old but an 8 year old white girl, what would you think? What would you do? If you saw a grown man following your child, and it was obvious he was deliberately following your child, what would you do? Maybe now you can see the situation from Trayvon’s eyes.

And isn’t self-defense in general based on perception? [/quote]
You are contradicting yourself.

Yes, self defense can be initiated based on perceiving a legitimate threat. I could absolutely be perceived as a legitimate threat in my example under your logic. Given your response, I know you think your logic is retarded.

If I saw a stranger (of any color) following an 8 year old girl (of any color) I wouldn’t like it but I also wouldn’t run up and start attacking, it wouldn’t be justified; not even if he spoke to her.

Now, I would watch, and if he made contact I’d come to her aid for sure and who knows how that would play out. Hell, if I felt it necessary, I might even pull out my concealed handgun and shoot the guy but this is make believe and we don’t have an actual scenario to know.

The difference is, according to evidence and testimony, Trayvon made contact. You are trying to turn the situation in to something it isn’t. Plain and simple.

Following and asking questions are not illegal activities whether you like it or not. I’m not going to keep playing broken record with you.

Your shit is off base and simply wrong.

620

[quote]overstand wrote:
And to clarify some facts here, Zimmerman got out of the car and started following Trayvon on foot WHILE he was on the phone with 911.

For all we know, he could have turned around as soon as the dispatcher told him he didn’t need to follow.[/quote]
And this is an interesting, potentially critical point for the “911 authority team”.

Although 911 is not legal authority what so ever. Like not even a little bit.