Black Teen Shot 2

Off Topic
41

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
I this will all come down to when the confrontation begins.

At the point Zimmerman began to follow

At the point Zimmerman gets out of his car and started questioning

At the point someone takes the first swing.

Context will be key. As several have argued and I agree, Zimmerman following and especially after Martin ran and Zimmerman left his car, Martin has the legal right to defend himself from a threat.

It will come down to at least two lawyers and a judge. If it comes to a jury trail, Zimmerman will be found guilty of something (what I do not know, but menacing seems to be a possibility).[/quote]

Good question, I don’t understand the law enough to know the answer.

Here is a question for the people who understand (or think they do) the stand your ground law:

If you catch someone stealing your wallet, chase them down, ask for your property back, they attack you, you shoot and kill them. Are you protected by the “stand your ground” law or not?

I would hope their attacking you is not considered “self defense” even if you chased them down, since they are breaking the law by stealing from you, but I am curious if this is really the case.

42

[quote]waldo21212 wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
I this will all come down to when the confrontation begins.

At the point Zimmerman began to follow

At the point Zimmerman gets out of his car and started questioning

At the point someone takes the first swing.

Context will be key. As several have argued and I agree, Zimmerman following and especially after Martin ran and Zimmerman left his car, Martin has the legal right to defend himself from a threat.

It will come down to at least two lawyers and a judge. If it comes to a jury trail, Zimmerman will be found guilty of something (what I do not know, but menacing seems to be a possibility).[/quote]

Good question, I don’t understand the law enough to know the answer.

Here is a question for the people who understand (or think they do) the stand your ground law:

If you catch someone stealing your wallet, chase them down, ask for your property back, they attack you, you shoot and kill them. Are you protected by the “stand your ground” law or not?

I would hope their attacking you is not considered “self defense” even if you chased them down, since they are breaking the law by stealing from you, but I am curious if this is really the case.[/quote]

That is a lil different because the assilant started the altercation by stealing your wallet in the first place, beat his ass.

Zimmerman started the altercation. He stalked the kid and then tried to “Apprehend” him kid didn’t know what was going on and fought for his life.

43

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Everyone wants to focus on Zimmerman and the kid scuffling. No one wants to focus on the fact that he should not have gotten out of his car in the first place. IMO case closed. He is not a law enforcement officer and has no right to act as such.

To me the case should begin and end right with those points…paying just a tad bit of attention to the altercation. Zimmerman can say whatever he wants!!! The Kid is dead there isn’t anyone to say otherwise, whether or not he identified himself or not. All we have is Zimmerman’s word for it when it comes to the altercation. That’s not good enough cause NOBODY CAN IRREVOCABLY RESPUTE IT. Neighbors only got fragments. It’s not he said he said. IT’s he said and some people KINDA saw and KINDA heard.[/quote]

Exactly.

Plus, not even realizing the kid was on the phone is a HUGE sign that his perception of reality was OFF.

He apparently was watching this kid so closely as to assign DRUG USE to him, but couldn’t tell he was talking to someone?

This kid had been on the phone with that girl ALL DAY LONG. She heard him ask why he was being followed. Zimmerman did NOT identify himself or else the kid wouldn’t still fear for his fucking life…AFTER BEING CHASED.

That kid did what I would do and what most of us would do if someone started running after us…he ran and then defended himself.

Moral of the story, quit acting like a bad ass if a kid can whip your ass.[/quote]

LOL

44

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:

That is a lil different because the assilant started the altercation by stealing your wallet in the first place, beat his ass.

Zimmerman started the altercation. He stalked the kid and then tried to “Apprehend” him kid didn’t know what was going on and fought for his life.[/quote]

I understand it’s not the same situation at all - I am genuinely interested if you are protected under the “Stand your ground” law in that case. I think most sane people would think you should have the right to try and get back your property.

45

[quote]waldo21212 wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
I this will all come down to when the confrontation begins.

At the point Zimmerman began to follow

At the point Zimmerman gets out of his car and started questioning

At the point someone takes the first swing.

Context will be key. As several have argued and I agree, Zimmerman following and especially after Martin ran and Zimmerman left his car, Martin has the legal right to defend himself from a threat.

It will come down to at least two lawyers and a judge. If it comes to a jury trail, Zimmerman will be found guilty of something (what I do not know, but menacing seems to be a possibility).[/quote]

Good question, I don’t understand the law enough to know the answer.

Here is a question for the people who understand (or think they do) the stand your ground law:

If you catch someone stealing your wallet, chase them down, ask for your property back, they attack you, you shoot and kill them. Are you protected by the “stand your ground” law or not?

I would hope their attacking you is not considered “self defense” even if you chased them down, since they are breaking the law by stealing from you, but I am curious if this is really the case.[/quote]
In Texas, shooting some one who steals your wallet is legal, their attacks would not be self defense if you pursue as they initiated the scenario. I would assume states with similar laws are the same. It doesn’t even have to be your property in fact. Google “Joe Horn Pasadena, TX” though his case fell under Castle Doctrine law as I would assume most cases involving property would.

Sorry, TexAg, I’m on a mobile device and linking is a pain.

46

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:

[quote]waldo21212 wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
I this will all come down to when the confrontation begins.

At the point Zimmerman began to follow

At the point Zimmerman gets out of his car and started questioning

At the point someone takes the first swing.

Context will be key. As several have argued and I agree, Zimmerman following and especially after Martin ran and Zimmerman left his car, Martin has the legal right to defend himself from a threat.

It will come down to at least two lawyers and a judge. If it comes to a jury trail, Zimmerman will be found guilty of something (what I do not know, but menacing seems to be a possibility).[/quote]

Good question, I don’t understand the law enough to know the answer.

Here is a question for the people who understand (or think they do) the stand your ground law:

If you catch someone stealing your wallet, chase them down, ask for your property back, they attack you, you shoot and kill them. Are you protected by the “stand your ground” law or not?

I would hope their attacking you is not considered “self defense” even if you chased them down, since they are breaking the law by stealing from you, but I am curious if this is really the case.[/quote]

That is a lil different because the assilant started the altercation by stealing your wallet in the first place, beat his ass.

Zimmerman started the altercation. He stalked the kid and then tried to “Apprehend” him kid didn’t know what was going on and fought for his life.[/quote]
You still don’t know why Zimmerman engaged the gangbanging young adult. Could’ve been completely justified.

47

^ I do not remember the link, I added in the early thread, it had the conversation heard by the girlfriend and it went something like…
TM - why are you following me?

Z - what do you think your are doing here?

I tend to think had Zimmerman replied " I am with the neighborhood watch. Are you a resident or guest here?" This conversation we are having, well, we would not be having it.

48

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
^ I do not remember the link, I added in the early thread, it had the conversation heard by the girlfriend and it went something like…
TM - why are you following me?

Z - what do you think your are doing here?

I tend to think had Zimmerman replied " I am with the neighborhood watch. Are you a resident or guest here?" This conversation we are having, well, we would not be having it.[/quote]

I agree.

49

But if Tray said “I’m a resident” do you still think Quick Draw Zimmerman would’ve backed off? Maybe not. He was so convinced Tray was a criminal. Interesting thought.

50

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

You still don’t know why Zimmerman engaged the gangbanging young adult. Could’ve been completely justified.[/quote]

51

If this whole thing happened to MY kid and Zimmerman wasn’t charged, I’d put a bullet in Zimmerman. He tried to act like a cop, but got his ass beat by a 13 year old kid - so he shot him. IF he walked, I’d feel compelled to act like a judge, jury and executioner (because obviously the CJS would have failed in this case). Karma’s a muther fucker. If you’re gonna live by the vigilante sword, your pathetic ass can die by the vigilante sword.

I hope that piece of shit gets hit by a bus.

FTR, I read the whole thread before and this one, and I think that “ACCORDING TO THE LAW” it will be very hard to charge Zimmerman with anything substantial and make it stick. But have a serious problem with the way the law is written, and I hope Florida revisits it so that we don’t have any more kids being shot by douche bags.

I also hope someone pops a cap in Zimmerman.

52

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
If this whole thing happened to MY kid and Zimmerman wasn’t charged, I’d put a bullet in Zimmerman. He tried to act like a cop, but got his ass beat by a 13 year old kid - so he shot him. IF he walked, I’d feel compelled to act like a judge, jury and executioner (because obviously the CJS would have failed in this case). Karma’s a muther fucker. If you’re gonna live by the vigilante sword, your pathetic ass can die by the vigilante sword.

I hope that piece of shit gets hit by a bus.

FTR, I read the whole thread before and this one, and I think that “ACCORDING TO THE LAW” it will be very hard to charge Zimmerman with anything substantial and make it stick. But have a serious problem with the way the law is written, and I hope Florida revisits it so that we don’t have any more kids being shot by douche bags.

I also hope someone pops a cap in Zimmerman.

[/quote]

Trayvon was 17 but I feel your sentiments. I had a friend of mine stabbed by three punks who took offence to someone looking at them. Shit just makes you wonder why stuff like this has to happen in the first place.

I echoed street justice early in that thread. Still feel like he will get his.

53

I think Al Sharpton needs to just shut the fuck up already.

54

[quote]StevenF wrote:
I think Al Sharpton needs to just shut the fuck up already. [/quote]

Because he’s vocal about civil rights, or because he’s black?

As an American, I would have expected you would support his right to speak.

55

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]StevenF wrote:
I think Al Sharpton needs to just shut the fuck up already. [/quote]

Because he’s vocal about civil rights, or because he’s black?

As an American, I would have expected you would support his right to speak. [/quote]
As an American, I would expect you to support the right of innocence until proven guilty.

56

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]StevenF wrote:
I think Al Sharpton needs to just shut the fuck up already. [/quote]

Because he’s vocal about civil rights, or because he’s black?

As an American, I would have expected you would support his right to speak. [/quote]

Probably because he is a race-baiting Tawana Brawley lying huckster. Probably because he’s seen on video calling someone a “punk faggot”, and a “greek homo” and former NYC mayor Dinkins a “n—er” and “whore” and nobody can, with a straight face, say Sharpton stands for anything other than his wallet.

57

Reading over many different sources on the internet, it does appear the two fought. In light of that, I’d like to apologize to HG for jumping to conclusions, calling him a “pathetic piece of shit fucker”, due to my own misinterpretation of his statement, “given what we know, I would’ve shot Trayvon”. It was an unfortunate situation, and I’m sorry to say I was initially in some part a proponent of knee-jerk reactionary bullshit in response to what is just a sad story.

I learned my lessons. A)- I need to stop commenting on fucking GAL threads. B)- Never talk about situations I don’t fully understand.

58

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]StevenF wrote:
I think Al Sharpton needs to just shut the fuck up already. [/quote]

Because he’s vocal about civil rights, or because he’s black?

As an American, I would have expected you would support his right to speak. [/quote]
As an American, I would expect you to support the right of innocence until proven guilty.[/quote]
Oh the irony. As an American, I would have expected you to support being proven guilty in court of law…not being killed by a overzealous neighborhood watchman in public.

59

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]StevenF wrote:
I think Al Sharpton needs to just shut the fuck up already. [/quote]

Because he’s vocal about civil rights, or because he’s black?

As an American, I would have expected you would support his right to speak. [/quote]
As an American, I would expect you to support the right of innocence until proven guilty.[/quote]
Oh the irony. As an American, I would have expected you to support being proven guilty in court of law…not being killed by a overzealous neighborhood watchman in public.[/quote]

As sad as the situation is, Trayvon would not be dead if he didn’t decide to attack Zimmerman. Zimmerman clearly didn’t do everything right, and played a part in creating the incident, but in the end, escalation to physical violence was Trayvon’s doing and is directly the reason Zimmerman thought he needed to use his firearm to defend himself.

60

[quote]red04 wrote:

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]StevenF wrote:
I think Al Sharpton needs to just shut the fuck up already. [/quote]

Because he’s vocal about civil rights, or because he’s black?

As an American, I would have expected you would support his right to speak. [/quote]
As an American, I would expect you to support the right of innocence until proven guilty.[/quote]
Oh the irony. As an American, I would have expected you to support being proven guilty in court of law…not being killed by a overzealous neighborhood watchman in public.[/quote]

As sad as the situation is, Trayvon would not be dead if he didn’t decide to attack Zimmerman. Zimmerman clearly didn’t do everything right, and played a part in creating the incident, but in the end, escalation to physical violence was Trayvon’s doing and is directly the reason Zimmerman thought he needed to use his firearm to defend himself.[/quote]

How do you know it is Trayvons? Doing zimmerman followed him and confronted him. Had zimmerman never followed him Travyon would never have felt threatened and needed to defend himself. Zimmerman shot him becuase he put himself in a situation he couldn’t handle and that he himself created.