Black Teen Shot 2

Off Topic
21

[quote]Swolegasm wrote:

[quote]Thomasm122 wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
A clarification and a question:

Clarification - streets within gated communities are not public space, nor a most spaces where security guards operate, for they are privates spaces (malls, banks, parking lots, etc. are privately held spaces, as are gated communities. The developer is most likely the owner in the case of the latter.)

Question: why does Zimmerman have the right to confront and question Martin?[/quote]

He probably doesn’t have the “right”, but if I follow you into a McDonalds and start questioning your poor diet choices, do you have the “right” to kick my ass?

If you decide you do and start pounding on me, do I then have the right to defend my self? [/quote]

Is there a link to the “numerous witnesses” stating they saw Martin attack Zimmerman? [/quote]

It appears 1 witness saw him hitting zimmerman the ground. Also about the line he must have done something really bad to get suspended for 5 days. That is BS I got suspended for a week for driving on the grass in school… in circles. [/quote]

Careful, bro, American Renaissance is a white power web site (as if the name didn’t give it away)! I would think the complete lack of derogatory terms in the article and its focus on FACTS rather than emotional outbursts would give away its racial bias, but what do I know.

Apparently, though, people will focus on that instead of the articles posted from reputable news sources that state the exact same thing.

(plus Martin was actually suspended for 10 days, according to some sources)

22

[quote]groo wrote:

[quote]Thomasm122 wrote:
He legally does. As far as I am aware, in many cases federal and state laws allow the employees of private contractors the right to talk to people, search them, and detain them IF THE PERSONS THEMSELVES AGREE TO IT. They also have the right to call the cops. A security guard is rented. He’s an employee of a developer(s), or further management of the property. He legally has the right to have a conversation with him (if whomever in concern is willing), take him into custody (if whoever it is is that stupid to agree to it), and search him(again…). As well as inform the police of any perceived suspicious activity. However, when it comes to the point that you are following a kid, you have notified the police, and 911 has informed you to not pursue, you gtfo. He should not and had no right to be following the kid after notifying 911. Anything illegal which occurred subsequent to that, I think there’s a good case against the perpetrator (in this case, Zimmerman).

Looking at the other thread I just don’t understand how someone can say “given the fact that were I myself a private security contractor employee, and saw a suspicious individual, notified the police, I would have followed him, chased him, confronted him repeatedly, and then shot him, while the police were on their way to the community to investigate the activity”, and then rebuke the fact that they are fucked up with “let’s let due process take care of it, stop playing the racism card you collectivist liberal shitheads”. [/quote]

I don’t know if he really counts as an employee of the HOA in this case.

There are tons of books and studies on gated communities and their poaching of public resources though. And the legal view is going to be very murky as to whether or not the sidewalks in this community are public or private.

Generally a truly wealthy community will set itself up as a minimum type of municipality which is essentially defacto the HOA. However as time goes on and say the cost of fixing the road or the sewer system etc become cost prohibitive they allow more and more encroachment of the surrounding cities…which they have mostly not wanted because of tax issues; but eventually there is a point where its likely having the gating wouldn’t be particularly legal any longer as they are essentially using full city services. Some of the gated communities also eventually ask for full regular police patrols which takes away from them being able to argue they are private as well.

I have no clue about this particular community.[/quote]
My impression is the assumed exclusivity of this gated community is a misnomer.

We are talking about townhomes. An owned apartment complex with a gate is not a neighborhood of multi-million dollar homes with designated an exclusive municipality district.

Not sure how this would play in to an HOA angle but let’s not get confused on terminology.

There is nothing exclusive about a townhome community in sandertown Florida.

23

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
A clarification and a question:

Clarification - streets within gated communities are not public space, nor a most spaces where security guards operate, for they are privates spaces (malls, banks, parking lots, etc. are privately held spaces, as are gated communities. The developer is most likely the owner in the case of the latter.)

Question: why does Zimmerman have the right to confront and question Martin?[/quote]
If the community was complete, the ownership belongs to the homeowners, who hire property management companies.

This is an interesting point though. Zimmerman, as an owner in the community, was not only attacked but attacked on private property.

Maybe the issue holds validity and maybe not, it would be cool to see links to HOA law.[/quote]

HOAs are extra-legal organizations. The bylaws maybe be the actual law of the land.

24

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/23/obama-makes-first-comments-on-trayvon-martin-shooting/?hp

25

I this will all come down to when the confrontation begins.

At the point Zimmerman began to follow

At the point Zimmerman gets out of his car and started questioning

At the point someone takes the first swing.

Context will be key. As several have argued and I agree, Zimmerman following and especially after Martin ran and Zimmerman left his car, Martin has the legal right to defend himself from a threat.

It will come down to at least two lawyers and a judge. If it comes to a jury trail, Zimmerman will be found guilty of something (what I do not know, but menacing seems to be a possibility).

26

Can people please start giving some context or summary of the articles they are posting?

I am sorry, but just posting a link strikes me as farting in a crowded room and just walking off.

27

what about the fact that he was told to not follow Martin? That essentially Zimmerman made a NON-Situation into a Situation. Does that hold no weight at all?

28

[quote]overstand wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
A clarification and a question:

Clarification - streets within gated communities are not public space, nor a most spaces where security guards operate, for they are privates spaces (malls, banks, parking lots, etc. are privately held spaces, as are gated communities. The developer is most likely the owner in the case of the latter.)

Question: why does Zimmerman have the right to confront and question Martin?[/quote]

He probably doesn’t have the “right”, but if I follow you into a McDonalds and start questioning your poor diet choices, do you have the “right” to kick my ass?

If you decide you do and start pounding on me, do I then have the right to defend my self? [/quote]

If you “detain” me I do. If you jump in my face you should expect a pop in the nose. And yes if you invade my personal space you have instigated it.

If I get this right, anyone who has gotten their nose bloodied deserves to be shot. I have gotten my ass beat before and never once did deadly force cross my mind. I don’t know if Zimmermin is a racist, but his is certainly a scared punk who should not be armed.

29

[quote]Testy1 wrote:
I don’t know if Zimmermin is a racist, but his is certainly a scared punk who should not be armed.[/quote]

Bingo.

I am also betting there are quite a few “scared punks who should not be armed” in the world.

The issue in that case is the PROFILING. This kid would still be alive if his punk ass had stayed in his car and observed. All he needed that night was a camera, not a gun off safety ready to shoot people he has defined as “on drugs” when they are “on the phone”.

30

[quote]overstand wrote:

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Hahaha lets see what due process brings[/quote]

That’s what everyone else has been saying all along, while you and the rest of the race-baiting liberal lynch mob (Iron Dwarf et al.) have been calling for his head since day 1.[/quote]

Whatever dude. I am not and have never claimed to be liberal. I’m politically neutral…I have no party affliation and that reflects in everything I do. I don’t care I’ll still call for his head…I just think with all the information out now this case will turn out really interesting in the end.

31

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Hahaha lets see what due process brings[/quote]

That’s what everyone else has been saying all along, while you and the rest of the race-baiting liberal lynch mob (Iron Dwarf et al.) have been calling for his head since day 1.[/quote]

Whatever dude. I am not and have never claimed to be liberal. I’m politically neutral…I have no party affliation and that reflects in everything I do. I don’t care I’ll still call for his head…I just think with all the information out now this case will turn out really interesting in the end. [/quote]

Agreed. As far as political names go, I think the idea of assigning yourself to one party regardless of the specific issues is retarded. I am not a Fox News hound who follows a political agenda like a religion. I prefer to look at the issues and deal with them individually. I am not sure what name there is for that.

Most of the crap we hear on this forum is regurgitated tv-talk.

32

I know this may be a bit insensitive but this would make a good film.

Anyone know when/if their will be a case?

33

[quote]Swolegasm wrote:

[quote]Thomasm122 wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
A clarification and a question:

Clarification - streets within gated communities are not public space, nor a most spaces where security guards operate, for they are privates spaces (malls, banks, parking lots, etc. are privately held spaces, as are gated communities. The developer is most likely the owner in the case of the latter.)

Question: why does Zimmerman have the right to confront and question Martin?[/quote]

He probably doesn’t have the “right”, but if I follow you into a McDonalds and start questioning your poor diet choices, do you have the “right” to kick my ass?

If you decide you do and start pounding on me, do I then have the right to defend my self? [/quote]

Is there a link to the “numerous witnesses” stating they saw Martin attack Zimmerman? [/quote]

It appears 1 witness saw him hitting zimmerman the ground. Also about the line he must have done something really bad to get suspended for 5 days. That is BS I got suspended for a week for driving on the grass in school… in circles. [/quote]

Yeah I agree with that, I was once suspended for 10 days. Walking in the hallway while on a “restricted movement” policy due to an insubordination write up, I had skipped class my freshman year. Thanks for the link

34

[quote]Thomasm122 wrote:

[quote]Swolegasm wrote:

[quote]Thomasm122 wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
A clarification and a question:

Clarification - streets within gated communities are not public space, nor a most spaces where security guards operate, for they are privates spaces (malls, banks, parking lots, etc. are privately held spaces, as are gated communities. The developer is most likely the owner in the case of the latter.)

Question: why does Zimmerman have the right to confront and question Martin?[/quote]

He probably doesn’t have the “right”, but if I follow you into a McDonalds and start questioning your poor diet choices, do you have the “right” to kick my ass?

If you decide you do and start pounding on me, do I then have the right to defend my self? [/quote]

Is there a link to the “numerous witnesses” stating they saw Martin attack Zimmerman? [/quote]

It appears 1 witness saw him hitting zimmerman the ground. Also about the line he must have done something really bad to get suspended for 5 days. That is BS I got suspended for a week for driving on the grass in school… in circles. [/quote]

Yeah I agree with that, I was once suspended for 10 days. Walking in the hallway while on a “restricted movement” policy due to an insubordination write up, I had skipped class my freshman year. Thanks for the link[/quote]

He apparently missed some days at school too many…but had good grades.

he sounds like me my senior year.

35

Everyone wants to focus on Zimmerman and the kid scuffling. No one wants to focus on the fact that he should not have gotten out of his car in the first place. IMO case closed. He is not a law enforcement officer and has no right to act as such.

To me the case should begin and end right with those points…paying just a tad bit of attention to the altercation. Zimmerman can say whatever he wants!!! The Kid is dead there isn’t anyone to say otherwise, whether or not he identified himself or not. All we have is Zimmerman’s word for it when it comes to the altercation. That’s not good enough cause NOBODY CAN IRREVOCABLY RESPUTE IT. Neighbors only got fragments. It’s not he said he said. IT’s he said and some people KINDA saw and KINDA heard.

36

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Everyone wants to focus on Zimmerman and the kid scuffling. No one wants to focus on the fact that he should not have gotten out of his car in the first place. IMO case closed. He is not a law enforcement officer and has no right to act as such.

To me the case should begin and end right with those points…paying just a tad bit of attention to the altercation. Zimmerman can say whatever he wants!!! The Kid is dead there isn’t anyone to say otherwise, whether or not he identified himself or not. All we have is Zimmerman’s word for it when it comes to the altercation. That’s not good enough cause NOBODY CAN IRREVOCABLY RESPUTE IT. Neighbors only got fragments. It’s not he said he said. IT’s he said and some people KINDA saw and KINDA heard.[/quote]

Exactly.

Plus, not even realizing the kid was on the phone is a HUGE sign that his perception of reality was OFF.

He apparently was watching this kid so closely as to assign DRUG USE to him, but couldn’t tell he was talking to someone?

This kid had been on the phone with that girl ALL DAY LONG. She heard him ask why he was being followed. Zimmerman did NOT identify himself or else the kid wouldn’t still fear for his fucking life…AFTER BEING CHASED.

That kid did what I would do and what most of us would do if someone started running after us…he ran and then defended himself.

Moral of the story, quit acting like a bad ass if a kid can whip your ass.

37

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Testy1 wrote:
I don’t know if Zimmermin is a racist, but his is certainly a scared punk who should not be armed.[/quote]

Bingo.

I am also betting there are quite a few “scared punks who should not be armed” in the world.

The issue in that case is the PROFILING. This kid would still be alive if his punk ass had stayed in his car and observed. All he needed that night was a camera, not a gun off safety ready to shoot people he has defined as “on drugs” when they are “on the phone”.[/quote]
Oh please. You were screaming “racist”, saw facts to the contrary and are now shifting your focus. Cut the bullshit. Witch hunts are bunk.

38

[quote]optheta wrote:
what about the fact that he was told to not follow Martin? That essentially Zimmerman made a NON-Situation into a Situation. Does that hold no weight at all?
[/quote]
This has been discussed. Read the last page of the previous thread.

39

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Testy1 wrote:
I don’t know if Zimmermin is a racist, but his is certainly a scared punk who should not be armed.[/quote]

Bingo.

I am also betting there are quite a few “scared punks who should not be armed” in the world.

The issue in that case is the PROFILING. This kid would still be alive if his punk ass had stayed in his car and observed. All he needed that night was a camera, not a gun off safety ready to shoot people he has defined as “on drugs” when they are “on the phone”.[/quote]
Oh please. You were screaming “racist”, saw facts to the contrary and are now shifting your focus. Cut the bullshit. Witch hunts are bunk.[/quote]

Your responses are bunk. Your comment that you would shoot the kid too was bunk.

Either quote my responses and respond to them directly or quit trying.

You suck at the discussion or debate game. The shit isn’t funny or thought provoking…just sad.

40

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Testy1 wrote:
I don’t know if Zimmermin is a racist, but his is certainly a scared punk who should not be armed.[/quote]

Bingo.

I am also betting there are quite a few “scared punks who should not be armed” in the world.

The issue in that case is the PROFILING. This kid would still be alive if his punk ass had stayed in his car and observed. All he needed that night was a camera, not a gun off safety ready to shoot people he has defined as “on drugs” when they are “on the phone”.[/quote]
Oh please. You were screaming “racist”, saw facts to the contrary and are now shifting your focus. Cut the bullshit. Witch hunts are bunk.[/quote]

Your responses are bunk. Your comment that you would shoot the kid too was bunk.

Either quote my responses and respond to them directly or quit trying.

You suck at the discussion or debate game. The shit isn’t funny or thought provoking…just sad.
[/quote]
My comments initiated this conversation. Most of them are proving to be true while you are having to shift your position.

Keep up or duck out. This isn’t a video game. No cheat codes.