[quote]FrozenNinja wrote: DEEP SIGH Did anyone “see” Tray following Zimmerman back to his car? Or is this all Zimm’s words?[/quote]
Well, is the body next to the car? If not, I think we’d have heard about it.[/quote]
We haven’t heard it is either.[/quote]
Do a little deductive reasoning. The Hispanic guy’s story is he was jumped walking back to his car. The police have stated the physical evidence is consistent with Hispanic guy’s story. A major part, no, THE major part of the physical evidence is the situs of the struggle — the body, the Hispanic guy’s blood on the sidewalk and grass, etc.
If the situs of the stuggle was somewhere else, do you think the police, who stated it was consistent with Hispanic guy’s story, would have said something different?
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote: DEEP SIGH Did anyone “see” Tray following Zimmerman back to his car? Or is this all Zimm’s words?[/quote]
Well, is the body next to the car? If not, I think we’d have heard about it.[/quote]
We haven’t heard it is either.[/quote]
Do a little deductive reasoning. The Hispanic guy’s story is he was jumped walking back to his car. The police have stated the physical evidence is consistent with Hispanic guy’s story. A major part, no, THE major part of the physical evidence is the situs of the struggle — the body, the Hispanic guy’s blood on the sidewalk and grass, etc.
If the situs of the stuggle was somewhere else, do you think the police, who stated it was consistent with Hispanic guy’s story, would have said something different?
Seriously, your agenda is showing again.[/quote]
My agenda? I said we haven’t heard one way or the other. That doesn’t imply any agenda.
I don’t even watch tv so any hype you may be hearing or think is being implied is probably not in my posts.
Every damn weekend, and usually by the same cop. Car got searched and a few times my knowledge of the applicable laws was good enough to keep my passengers in the car and not either left on the aide of the road, as one cop insisted on, or taken home by them.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I think I explained this already…unless you are just dismissing everything I wrote.
[/quote]
No, my post was not directed at you particularly at all. Just came across the figures and was shocked.
[quote]
I don’t live in a low income neighborhood. My neighbors are black, Latino, white, Asian and who knows what else. In fact, it may be the most mixed “nice” neighborhood I’ve been in. My worries are not being gunned down in a gang fight. My worries are getting pulled over while driving through Westheimer after leaving the gym for driving while black…and everything that can lead to.[/quote]
I stick out like a sore thumb myself, attrack undesired attention regularly, so I have considerable sympathy for this concept.
But has it ever happened to you? Have you been pulled over and hassled by Houston cops because you are black?[/quote]
Yes, it has. That shit was actually pretty bad in the 90’s. I remember one incident getting harassed after dropping my girl off (she was white) over in Bellaire. There were many others…including getting pulled over at 2am 2 years ago after leaving the gym…for no reason than being black and out6 at 2am. I was asked why I was out so late. I wasn’t even sure how to respond to that…being an adult and all.[/quote]
You are acting like getting pulled over is the sole domain of the poor black man.
I have been pulled over plenty of times, including late at night, for no apparent reason. Maybe that racist white cop hated my white ass. Although, the good news is that I now know that I have some to whine about on anonymous Internet forums. [/quote]
Wow…so I need to repeat posts on every page? BLACK PEOPLE ARE DYING BY THE HANDS OF COPS WHETHER THEY ARE CRIMINALS OR NOT BECAUSE OF CRAP LIKE THAT.
Yes, I would imagine what a black person feels when getting pulled over by a cop is also a threat of losing life. I know I feel it, because of it actually happening too many times before.
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote: DEEP SIGH Did anyone “see” Tray following Zimmerman back to his car? Or is this all Zimm’s words?[/quote]
Did anybody see any of it beyond trayvon committing assault?
Back to the original point we go.[/quote]
Exactly. The double-standard regarding evidence is blinding.
Self-defense is clear, unless the prosecution (whose burden it is to show provocation to defeat self-defense) can prove the Hispanic guy provoked the attack.
The only evidence we have regarding the attack is the Black guy intiated (or re-initiated) contact with a “you have a problem now” and cold-cocked the Hispanic guy.
Until a witness comes forward saying something different, there is no case.
Look, in the end, sterotypes are going to wash and color people’s minds. I remeber traveling out of the country last year and I got searched and pulled out of line at every airport, I’m assuming cuz of my athletic build. This bodybuilder who was in front of me and on the same flight would get pulled out of the line along with me…so…yeah…sterotypes. (This was right after the Europa in Orlando dude was some amateur bb)
Everytime I get pulled over I roll down the windows, shut off the engine and place my hands on the steering wheel or outside on the car door. I don’t leave it up to the cops. Because I am black when I get pulled over I want no doubt in their mind that “mY hands were reaching for something” or I “wasn’t cooperating.”
Every damn weekend, and usually by the same cop. Car got searched and a few times my knowledge of the applicable laws was good enough to keep my passengers in the car and not either left on the aide of the road, as one cop insisted on, or taken home by them.
[/quote]
Thats pretty fucked up, how could he demand that?
[/quote]
Said I had too many passengers in my car. Texas allows (if it has not changed) one passenger over the number of seatbelts. I was the guy who paid attention in drivers ed. Plus, I looked it up so I knew how many I could have just in case. In case happened.
Every damn weekend, and usually by the same cop. Car got searched and a few times my knowledge of the applicable laws was good enough to keep my passengers in the car and not either left on the aide of the road, as one cop insisted on, or taken home by them.
[/quote]
Thats pretty fucked up, how could he demand that?
[/quote]
Said I had too many passengers in my car. Texas allows (if it has not changed) one passenger over the number of seatbelts. I was the guy who paid attention in drivers ed. Plus, I looked it up so I knew how many I could have just in case. In case happened.[/quote]
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I think I explained this already…unless you are just dismissing everything I wrote.
[/quote]
No, my post was not directed at you particularly at all. Just came across the figures and was shocked.
Here’s the point you are missing. There are shitty people everywhere of every career, creed and color. There are shitty cops who do shitty things to innocent black folk. There are shitty rednecks who do shitty things to black folk. There are shitty bangers who do shitty things to white folk.
My point is that there are a whole lot of shitty people in the world and they look just like you. They look just like me. To then criticize an profile a whole group of them for the actions of a few is also shitty, just like you complain about cops and just like others complain about black folks.
After all, switch out cops and gangbangers from your preceding post and a white person would have the same argument.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I think I explained this already…unless you are just dismissing everything I wrote.
[/quote]
No, my post was not directed at you particularly at all. Just came across the figures and was shocked.
Here’s the point you are missing. There are shitty people everywhere of every career, creed and color. There are shitty cops who do shitty things to innocent black folk. There are shitty rednecks who do shitty things to black folk. There are shitty bangers who do shitty things to white folk.
My point is that there are a whole lot of shitty people in the world and they look just like you. They look just like me. To then criticize an profile a whole group of them for the actions of a few is also shitty, just like you complain about cops and just like others complain about black folks.
After all, switch out cops and gangbangers from your preceding post and a white person would have the same argument. [/quote]
Double standards die hard, you know?
When you’re sitting in some shitty FOB with no running water and surrounded by mountains full of people who like to take pot shots at you…
When you’re escorting someone from the embassy through a labyrinth of crappy roads surrounded by houses with people on the rooftops all staring at you…
Or when you’ve been stuck on some rooftop with all of 3 other friendlies with little to no immediate support available and surrounded by people who may or may not want you dead…
Do you think about what race (or sex for that matter, that one’s come up in the forums quite a bit too) those 3 or 10 or howevermany other guys on your side are? Especially if you aren’t fresh out of boot camp and already know that you really do only have these people to depend on at that moment.
It’s something that doesn’t really matter then, right? Same for much of the other petty crap you get in civilian life, or even possibly in the rear echelons (no offense to the support people mind you) where it’s more “I’m going to work” and not as much “I’m going into combat”.
There is something to certain parts of military/paramilitary life that binds people together. You have bigger things to worry about than each other, usually. So I guess sort of an us vs. them thing (i.e. people banding together against whomever they perceive as an enemy… Be that smelly bearded people in bedsheets with ancient russian guns or some asshole superior), or alternatively a sense that, as I said before, you only have those few people to rely on.
Of course having a middle eastern muslim (for example) on the team might still be an issue for obvious reasons. I guess that sort of invalidates what I said before, at least in specific situations.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I think I explained this already…unless you are just dismissing everything I wrote.
[/quote]
No, my post was not directed at you particularly at all. Just came across the figures and was shocked.
Here’s the point you are missing. There are shitty people everywhere of every career, creed and color. There are shitty cops who do shitty things to innocent black folk. There are shitty rednecks who do shitty things to black folk. There are shitty bangers who do shitty things to white folk.
My point is that there are a whole lot of shitty people in the world and they look just like you. They look just like me. To then criticize an profile a whole group of them for the actions of a few is also shitty, just like you complain about cops and just like others complain about black folks.
After all, switch out cops and gangbangers from your preceding post and a white person would have the same argument. [/quote]
Guy, for the last time, the fact that it is COPS we have to worry about as well IS the problem.
I think after saying that about 50 times over, I will just leave that there.
Get back to me when you are at risk of losing life by the hands of those chosen to protect about as much as you are from some random gang member.
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Carrying a gun may be a right but it also carries with it responsibility. You carry a gun to protect yourself from the unavoidable not to give yourself the courage to engage in behavior that you wouldn’t have done otherwise. Combine that with an attitude about race that leads you to profile and you have what we have here. A normal person who carries a gun does whatever he has to within reason to avoid a situation in which he may end up using it. [/quote]
Excellent post.[/quote]
A normal person lives his normal life the way he normally would, gun or no gun.
A normal neighborhood watch captain watches the neighborhood and investigates what he deems suspicious activity as his perception was voted to be the watch by said neighborhood, including black neighbors who are on record in support of Zimmerman.
A neighborhood watch captain who asks for identification from an unrecognized visitor as would be normally expected and who is ultimately attacked would be in his rights to shoot.
Normal people don’t alter their lives and revert to living in the shadows simply because they have a gun. [/quote]
Wrong. A normal neighborhood watch person, WATCHES…observe and report, not investigate. And I highly doubt his position gives him the right to temporarily suspend someone’s civil rights (like an actual cop can do) and ask for ID.
Thats right. That’s what a lot of people are forgetting. Neighborhood watchmen are supposed to WATCH! Their presence is supposed to deter criminal activity because someone is “watching.” If it was their job to apprehend and investigate goings on what would make them different from normal cops?
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Thats right. That’s what a lot of people are forgetting. Neighborhood watchmen are supposed to WATCH! Their presence is supposed to deter criminal activity because someone is “watching.” If it was their job to apprehend and investigate goings on what would make them different from normal cops?[/quote]
Yet his concealed carry license grants state rights above and beyond a neighborhood watch.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Guy, for the last time, the fact that it is COPS we have to worry about as well IS the problem.
I think after saying that about 50 times over, I will just leave that there.
Get back to me when you are at risk of losing life by the hands of those chosen to protect about as much as you are from some random gang member.[/quote]
It’s a very small number of cops that you need to worry about, just like its a very small number of blacks that white folks need to worry about. Their chosen profession does not make it any worse for the murdered victim of the cop versus the murdered victim of the banger.
Furthermore, if you want to keep bitching about cops in general, then let’s have a comparison about which is more likely: a black person unjustly killed by a cop or a white person unjustly killed by a black person.
You would find pretty damn quick that the white person has more cause to fear and distrust the black person than the black person does for the cop.
That does not excuse racism by white people for the exact same reason you are wrong to label cops. The sad fact is that many people will bitch about white racism with one breath and the stereotype cops with the next. That is just stupid.