[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Instead what we get is a guy who’s trying to be inspector gaget, Judge dred and dirty harry all in one.[/quote]
And even though he may very well have been legally justified in shooting the kid I can’t help but think that he would still be alive had Zimmerman exercised good judgment and/or the kid wasn’t black.
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Thats right. That’s what a lot of people are forgetting. Neighborhood watchmen are supposed to WATCH! Their presence is supposed to deter criminal activity because someone is “watching.” If it was their job to apprehend and investigate goings on what would make them different from normal cops?[/quote]
Yet his concealed carry license grants state rights above and beyond a neighborhood watch.[/quote]
Source.
[quote]TheSouthpaw wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Guy, for the last time, the fact that it is COPS we have to worry about as well IS the problem.
I think after saying that about 50 times over, I will just leave that there.
Get back to me when you are at risk of losing life by the hands of those chosen to protect about as much as you are from some random gang member.[/quote]
It’s a very small number of cops that you need to worry about, just like its a very small number of blacks that white folks need to worry about. Their chosen profession does not make it any worse for the murdered victim of the cop versus the murdered victim of the banger.
Furthermore, if you want to keep bitching about cops in general, then let’s have a comparison about which is more likely: a black person unjustly killed by a cop or a white person unjustly killed by a black person.
You would find pretty damn quick that the white person has more cause to fear and distrust the black person than the black person does for the cop.
That does not excuse racism by white people for the exact same reason you are wrong to label cops. The sad fact is that many people will bitch about white racism with one breath and the stereotype cops with the next. That is just stupid. [/quote]
i agree with some of this, but I will admit that I feel better about my odds against some random black thug who wants to make trouble with me/thinks I will be an easy victim, than the fucking police who are heavily armed, have lots of back up, and the power of law behind them.
if you at least have a chance against the “random black thug”, you WILL lose against the police, and after they beat your ass, IF the do not kill you, good luck at not being convicted of several felonies and ending up in jail with your life ruined.
After reading the happenings of the day in the thread, here are my thoughts:
I really wish the media coverage of this would stop. Let the investigators do their job. Having to do damage control and talking with the press non-stop is not productive to the investigation, or for justice for anyone involved.
I think Zimmerman will be charged, and most likely brought to trial. This is the state that tried Casey Anthony a year ago without much evidence, IMO at least in part due to highly publicized case and tons of public outcry.
Also, with the total media coverage, it makes finding an impartial jury that much harder. At least the jurors in Florida for the Anthony trial proved that they were willing to look at the facts presented by both sides and not buy into the media hype and the court of public opinion, so maybe there is hope to find an impartial jury.
Either way for Mr. Zimmerman, much like Casey Anthony, legal acquittal or not, being guilty in the court of public opinion means his life is pretty much ruined.
Sooooooo…
Have we solved this case yet?
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Thats right. That’s what a lot of people are forgetting. Neighborhood watchmen are supposed to WATCH! Their presence is supposed to deter criminal activity because someone is “watching.” If it was their job to apprehend and investigate goings on what would make them different from normal cops?[/quote]
Yet his concealed carry license grants state rights above and beyond a neighborhood watch.[/quote]
Source. [/quote]
Here is a listing of when deadly force can be used in the state of Florida. According to this, IF (and this is still an if) Trayvon did initiate the fight after Zimmerman stopped chasing him, then Zimmerman would appear to be justified in shooting him, regardless of the fact that he should not have been following Trayvon. If the chase was over and Zimmerman had stopped following him and was on his way back to his car, then he had no reason to continue to view Zimmerman as a threat and should have gone home and told his parents or called the cops. If Zimmerman chased Trayvon down and started the fight, then he would probably looking at at least a manslaughter charge. If his injuries, which would have been documented by police but not likely made public (they are conducting an investigation after all), and the place where the body was found and the fight took place are consistent with this account, then Zimmerman will not likely face charges. The police have not released all the details of their investigation yet, and they shouldn’t if the investigation is still ongoing. Absent actual witnesses, it will boil down to does the evidence support what Zimmerman said happened or does the evidence support what Trayvon’s girlfriend said happened based on the phone call. I would not put it past either or both to be lying at least a little bit so it really will boil down to the physical evidence.
EDIT: forgot the link.
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Thats right. That’s what a lot of people are forgetting. Neighborhood watchmen are supposed to WATCH! Their presence is supposed to deter criminal activity because someone is “watching.” If it was their job to apprehend and investigate goings on what would make them different from normal cops?[/quote]
Yet his concealed carry license grants state rights above and beyond a neighborhood watch.[/quote]
Source. [/quote]
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Thats right. That’s what a lot of people are forgetting. Neighborhood watchmen are supposed to WATCH! Their presence is supposed to deter criminal activity because someone is “watching.” If it was their job to apprehend and investigate goings on what would make them different from normal cops?[/quote]
Yet his concealed carry license grants state rights above and beyond a neighborhood watch.[/quote]
Source. [/quote]
Yes please, I don’t think carrying a concealed weapons permit allows you to take the law into your own hands… I’m not saying thats what your saying…Im saying lets work the parameters of these laws out
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Yet his concealed carry license grants state rights above and beyond a neighborhood watch.[/quote]
Huh?
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Thats right. That’s what a lot of people are forgetting. Neighborhood watchmen are supposed to WATCH! Their presence is supposed to deter criminal activity because someone is “watching.” If it was their job to apprehend and investigate goings on what would make them different from normal cops?[/quote]
Yet his concealed carry license grants state rights above and beyond a neighborhood watch.[/quote]
Source. [/quote]
Here is a listing of when deadly force can be used in the state of Florida. According to this, IF (and this is still an if) Trayvon did initiate the fight after Zimmerman stopped chasing him, then Zimmerman would appear to be justified in shooting him, regardless of the fact that he should not have been following Trayvon. If the chase was over and Zimmerman had stopped following him and was on his way back to his car, then he had no reason to continue to view Zimmerman as a threat and should have gone home and told his parents or called the cops. If Zimmerman chased Trayvon down and started the fight, then he would probably looking at at least a manslaughter charge. If his injuries, which would have been documented by police but not likely made public (they are conducting an investigation after all), and the place where the body was found and the fight took place are consistent with this account, then Zimmerman will not likely face charges. The police have not released all the details of their investigation yet, and they shouldn’t if the investigation is still ongoing. Absent actual witnesses, it will boil down to does the evidence support what Zimmerman said happened or does the evidence support what Trayvon’s girlfriend said happened based on the phone call. I would not put it past either or both to be lying at least a little bit so it really will boil down to the physical evidence.
EDIT: forgot the link.
http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html[/quote]
You know what gets me? The idiocy of that police department not realizing what a mistake not bringing that man in at all was. It would be much harder to criticize if they weren’t treating Zimmerman like he was a cop and just let him go home after murdering someone.
Honestly, I had no idea that was even possible. I have never heard of another case where someone was killed and the shooter just gets allowed to walk off.
The way this was handled makes the PD look shady as well as Zimmerman.
Zimmerman knows the law. he knows if he says he was walking back to his truck it lets him off…that doesn’t make it true.
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
Yet his concealed carry license grants state rights above and beyond a neighborhood watch.[/quote]
Huh?
[/quote]
CCW permits do not permit the right to use deadly force, or any other right other than to carry a concealed weapon. Those rights are granted to all people, whether or not they carry a concealed weapon or use their bare hands. I posted a link above about when the use of deadly force is authorized in Florida.
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Thats right. That’s what a lot of people are forgetting. Neighborhood watchmen are supposed to WATCH! Their presence is supposed to deter criminal activity because someone is “watching.” If it was their job to apprehend and investigate goings on what would make them different from normal cops?[/quote]
Yet his concealed carry license grants state rights above and beyond a neighborhood watch.[/quote]
Source. [/quote]
Yes please, I don’t think carrying a concealed weapons permit allows you to take the law into your own hands… I’m not saying thats what your saying…Im saying lets work the parameters of these laws out[/quote]
See Dr. Matt’s response.
Putting the decision to kill Trayvon on Zimmerman’s neighborhood watch status is a red herring. As he was under attack, he was exercising rights granted through concealed carry law, not neighborhood watch captain, dudly do right bullshit conjecture as we’ve been discussing.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
You know what gets me? The idiocy of that police department not realizing what a mistake not bringing that man in at all was. It would be much harder to criticize if they weren’t treating Zimmerman like he was a cop and just let him go home after murdering someone.
Honestly, I had no idea that was even possible. I have never heard of another case where someone was killed and the shooter just gets allowed to walk off.
The way this was handled makes the PD look shady as well as Zimmerman.
Zimmerman knows the law. he knows if he says he was walking back to his truck it lets him off…that doesn’t make it true.[/quote]
That has my BS detector going off too. If there is a dead body, and a guy with a gun saying “I shot him,” that person should be taken into custody, I don’t care what the evidence shows at the time. If I shoot someone and the cops show up, I guarantee you I will be saying self defense no matter what happened. People lie in order to further their cause, no matter which side they are on. Zimmerman is probably not being entirely truthful, and on the other hand Trayvon’s family and their lawyers do not seem to have been entirely honest in the way they have portrayed events to the media, ad the media itself has been fairly unethical in their coverage of this case.
[quote]waldo21212 wrote:
After reading the happenings of the day in the thread, here are my thoughts:
I really wish the media coverage of this would stop. Let the investigators do their job. Having to do damage control and talking with the press non-stop is not productive to the investigation, or for justice for anyone involved.
[/quote]
I agree with this… So much obfuscation going on… If they’d stick to actually reporting verified information relevant to the legal proceedings things might be different, but of course sensationalism and the “first!” mentality got the better of them as usual.
Disgusting to see what a bunch of hyenas some journalists etc are.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Thats right. That’s what a lot of people are forgetting. Neighborhood watchmen are supposed to WATCH! Their presence is supposed to deter criminal activity because someone is “watching.” If it was their job to apprehend and investigate goings on what would make them different from normal cops?[/quote]
Yet his concealed carry license grants state rights above and beyond a neighborhood watch.[/quote]
Source. [/quote]
Here is a listing of when deadly force can be used in the state of Florida. According to this, IF (and this is still an if) Trayvon did initiate the fight after Zimmerman stopped chasing him, then Zimmerman would appear to be justified in shooting him, regardless of the fact that he should not have been following Trayvon. If the chase was over and Zimmerman had stopped following him and was on his way back to his car, then he had no reason to continue to view Zimmerman as a threat and should have gone home and told his parents or called the cops. If Zimmerman chased Trayvon down and started the fight, then he would probably looking at at least a manslaughter charge. If his injuries, which would have been documented by police but not likely made public (they are conducting an investigation after all), and the place where the body was found and the fight took place are consistent with this account, then Zimmerman will not likely face charges. The police have not released all the details of their investigation yet, and they shouldn’t if the investigation is still ongoing. Absent actual witnesses, it will boil down to does the evidence support what Zimmerman said happened or does the evidence support what Trayvon’s girlfriend said happened based on the phone call. I would not put it past either or both to be lying at least a little bit so it really will boil down to the physical evidence.
EDIT: forgot the link.
http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html[/quote]
You know what gets me? The idiocy of that police department not realizing what a mistake not bringing that man in at all was. It would be much harder to criticize if they weren’t treating Zimmerman like he was a cop and just let him go home after murdering someone.
Honestly, I had no idea that was even possible. I have never heard of another case where someone was killed and the shooter just gets allowed to walk off.
The way this was handled makes the PD look shady as well as Zimmerman.
Zimmerman knows the law. he knows if he says he was walking back to his truck it lets him off…that doesn’t make it true.[/quote]
The Houston Chronicle has recently reported self defense cases in our city where no arrests were made or charges filed.
And guess what? A black man was one of the shooters.
[quote]orion wrote:
Sooooooo…
Have we solved this case yet?[/quote]
yes.
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
Sooooooo…
Have we solved this case yet?[/quote]
yes.[/quote]
It was the one-armed man.
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
Sooooooo…
Have we solved this case yet?[/quote]
yes.[/quote]
Whodunnit?
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
Sooooooo…
Have we solved this case yet?[/quote]
yes.[/quote]
It was the one-armed man.[/quote]
Oh well, isnt it always.
At least this time it could have been the butler.
no, it was professor plum in the library with a lead pipe, dumb-asses.