[quote]Professor X wrote:
Just to add…I would assume the “white community” would think, “gee, if I don’t break into cars, I probably won’t get shot”…as opposed to the black community saying, “gee, if I walk outside with a hood on, someone may get scared and shoot me…for NOT doing any crime at all”.
If you can’t see the difference, what would it take for that to happen?[/quote]
You’re getting mad at a scenario for which there is no proof.
Everything we now have (listed above) indicates the Black guy followed the Hispanic guy back towards his truck and started the physical altercation because he was mad at being followed.
Going and starting a fight because one was racially profiled is not legally justified. You file a complaint or sue or whatnot.
Why are black people pulled over more often than whites? Because black people are more likely to live in poverty-stricken areas that are much more prone to crime. Police presence is much higher in these areas.
The fact that traffic stops do not mirror census data is not an indicator of racism, merely practicality.
If you want a crusade, try fighting poverty. The race angle just isn’t supported be the facts.
true story I was racially profiled 3 times overseas, 2 of which were at gun point 1 was detainment. It would have been very foolish of me to try and fight either of those situations.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Just to add…I would assume the “white community” would think, “gee, if I don’t break into cars, I probably won’t get shot”…as opposed to the black community saying, “gee, if I walk outside with a hood on, someone may get scared and shoot me…for NOT doing any crime at all”.
If you can’t see the difference, what would it take for that to happen?[/quote]
You’re getting mad at a scenario for which there is no proof.
Everything we now have (listed above) indicates the Black guy followed the Hispanic guy back towards his truck and started the physical altercation because he was mad at being followed.
Going and starting a fight because one was racially profiled is not legally justified. You file a complaint or sue or whatnot.[/quote]
Or go tell their daddy?
The kid was a kid. 17. They make mistakes and they’re stupid. Following him back to the truck was a dumb move for sure, but the question in my mind is would Zimmerman have still shot if Trayvon was white?
My anwswer?
Zimmerman wouldn’t have even got out of his truck in the first place if Trayvon was instead “Travis” and white.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I think I explained this already…unless you are just dismissing everything I wrote.
[/quote]
No, my post was not directed at you particularly at all. Just came across the figures and was shocked.
[quote]
I don’t live in a low income neighborhood. My neighbors are black, Latino, white, Asian and who knows what else. In fact, it may be the most mixed “nice” neighborhood I’ve been in. My worries are not being gunned down in a gang fight. My worries are getting pulled over while driving through Westheimer after leaving the gym for driving while black…and everything that can lead to.[/quote]
I stick out like a sore thumb myself, attrack undesired attention regularly, so I have considerable sympathy for this concept.
But has it ever happened to you? Have you been pulled over and hassled by Houston cops because you are black?
94% of black murders were committed by other blacks.
There is an epidemic of murder in this country, but it isn’t white people doing it, and I sense some mis-directed anger going on.[/quote]
I think I explained this already…unless you are just dismissing everything I wrote.
I capitalized ‘authority figures’ for a reason.
I don’t live in a low income neighborhood. My neighbors are black, Latino, white, Asian and who knows what else. In fact, it may be the most mixed “nice” neighborhood I’ve been in. My worries are not being gunned down in a gang fight. My worries are getting pulled over while driving through Westheimer after leaving the gym for driving while black…and everything that can lead to.[/quote]
Yeah, because Houston is fucking horrible for that and your stretch of westheimer is a cess pool for racial tension.
[quote]Viernes wrote:
but the question in my mind is would Zimmerman have still shot if Trayvon was white?..The adult had the upper hand the whole time
[/quote]
The “adult” was on the ground, screaming for help, his nose broken, and generally getting his ass beat.
That’s not the “upper hand.”
And (if the Black kid’s attack was unprovoked — a large “if”) it’s self-defense, regardless of color.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Just to add…I would assume the “white community” would think, “gee, if I don’t break into cars, I probably won’t get shot”…as opposed to the black community saying, “gee, if I walk outside with a hood on, someone may get scared and shoot me…for NOT doing any crime at all”.
If you can’t see the difference, what would it take for that to happen?[/quote]
You’re getting mad at a scenario for which there is no proof.
Everything we now have (listed above) indicates the Black guy followed the Hispanic guy back towards his truck and started the physical altercation because he was mad at being followed.
Going and starting a fight because one was racially profiled is not legally justified. You file a complaint or sue or whatnot.[/quote]
Or go tell their daddy?
The kid was a kid. 17. They make mistakes and they’re stupid. Following him back to the truck was a dumb move for sure, but the question in my mind is would Zimmerman have still shot if Trayvon was white?
My anwswer?
Zimmerman wouldn’t have even got out of his truck in the first place if Trayvon was instead “Travis” and white.
The adult had the upper hand the whole time
[/quote]
Countless teens younger than trayvon have been tried as adults in violent crimes. He was trusted behind the wheel of a car. In a matter of months he could’ve voted and served in the military… his late teen status makes him more a young adult than a child.
Either way, according to evidence, Zimmerman was was being beaten. He had no idea how far the beating would go and decided to protect himself. The only relevant fact is who started the fight.
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote: DEEP SIGH Did anyone “see” Tray following Zimmerman back to his car? Or is this all Zimm’s words?[/quote]
Did anybody see any of it beyond trayvon committing assault?
[quote]FrozenNinja wrote: DEEP SIGH Did anyone “see” Tray following Zimmerman back to his car? Or is this all Zimm’s words?[/quote]
Hell, no one even stated he was near a truck. If he wasn’t anywhere near his truck, why would the guy he was chasing think he quit chasing him?
Zimmerman, an adult, should have first not chased a kid unless he had the authority to chase them. He is not law enforcement. If this kid outsmarted and overpowered him, he should have thought of that before he chased someone.
People like that are weak…and their only strength is their weapon.
[quote]Viernes wrote:
but the question in my mind is would Zimmerman have still shot if Trayvon was white?..The adult had the upper hand the whole time
[/quote]
The “adult” was on the ground, screaming for help, his nose broken, and generally getting his ass beat.
That’s not the “upper hand.”
And (if the Black kid’s attack was unprovoked — a large “if”) it’s self-defense, regardless of color.
[/quote]
Yessir I understand what you’re saying, but the question I’m asking is more about the initiation of the whole scene instead of the end of it.
He (Zimmerman) knew what his role was as a nieghborhood watch guy, and that was to call the cops when he saw something suspicious. He took it more than a few steps further even at the behest of the dispatcher. Why did he do that?
I personally think it’s because Martin was black.
There was a whole bunch of information that Zimmerman didn’t have because Zimmerman isn’t a Cop. He didn’t have appropriate training, he didn’t have a cool head. He didn’t have gumballs on the roof of his vehicle and a badge on his chest. He was some dude getting in a 17 y/o’s grill at night without cause. Is the 17 year old reacting poorly to the situation a surprise to anyone? It isn’t to me. That’s what 17 y/o’s DO for a living practically.
Cops know this kind of thing and would have made better-more professional decisions based on this scenario. Zimmerman swam outside his lane and made a terrible decision and ended up getting his ass beat. Didn’t mean Martin had to die.
Zimmerman is a coward here. A frightened coward who will more than likely get off because Florida is where this kind of thing happens and somehow works in the favor of the guilty.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I think I explained this already…unless you are just dismissing everything I wrote.
[/quote]
No, my post was not directed at you particularly at all. Just came across the figures and was shocked.
[quote]
I don’t live in a low income neighborhood. My neighbors are black, Latino, white, Asian and who knows what else. In fact, it may be the most mixed “nice” neighborhood I’ve been in. My worries are not being gunned down in a gang fight. My worries are getting pulled over while driving through Westheimer after leaving the gym for driving while black…and everything that can lead to.[/quote]
I stick out like a sore thumb myself, attrack undesired attention regularly, so I have considerable sympathy for this concept.
But has it ever happened to you? Have you been pulled over and hassled by Houston cops because you are black?[/quote]
Yes, it has. That shit was actually pretty bad in the 90’s. I remember one incident getting harassed after dropping my girl off (she was white) over in Bellaire. There were many others…including getting pulled over at 2am 2 years ago after leaving the gym…for no reason than being black and out6 at 2am. I was asked why I was out so late. I wasn’t even sure how to respond to that…being an adult and all.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I think I explained this already…unless you are just dismissing everything I wrote.
[/quote]
No, my post was not directed at you particularly at all. Just came across the figures and was shocked.
[quote]
I don’t live in a low income neighborhood. My neighbors are black, Latino, white, Asian and who knows what else. In fact, it may be the most mixed “nice” neighborhood I’ve been in. My worries are not being gunned down in a gang fight. My worries are getting pulled over while driving through Westheimer after leaving the gym for driving while black…and everything that can lead to.[/quote]
I stick out like a sore thumb myself, attrack undesired attention regularly, so I have considerable sympathy for this concept.
But has it ever happened to you? Have you been pulled over and hassled by Houston cops because you are black?[/quote]
Yes, it has. That shit was actually pretty bad in the 90’s. I remember one incident getting harassed after dropping my girl off (she was white) over in Bellaire. There were many others…including getting pulled over at 2am 2 years ago after leaving the gym…for no reason than being black and out6 at 2am. I was asked why I was out so late. I wasn’t even sure how to respond to that…being an adult and all.[/quote]
You are acting like getting pulled over is the sole domain of the poor black man.
I have been pulled over plenty of times, including late at night, for no apparent reason. Maybe that racist white cop hated my white ass. Although, the good news is that I now know that I have some to whine about on anonymous Internet forums.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I think I explained this already…unless you are just dismissing everything I wrote.
[/quote]
No, my post was not directed at you particularly at all. Just came across the figures and was shocked.
[quote]
I don’t live in a low income neighborhood. My neighbors are black, Latino, white, Asian and who knows what else. In fact, it may be the most mixed “nice” neighborhood I’ve been in. My worries are not being gunned down in a gang fight. My worries are getting pulled over while driving through Westheimer after leaving the gym for driving while black…and everything that can lead to.[/quote]
I stick out like a sore thumb myself, attrack undesired attention regularly, so I have considerable sympathy for this concept.
But has it ever happened to you? Have you been pulled over and hassled by Houston cops because you are black?[/quote]
I got.pulled over nearly every weekend during a couple years in High School because my passengers were of various shades. Every damn weekend, and usually by the same cop. Car got searched and a few times my knowledge of the applicable laws was good enough to keep my passengers in the car and not either left on the aide of the road, as one cop insisted on, or taken home by them.
My car was the only one in a town 100,000 (pop) like it.