[quote]Professor X wrote:
LOL!! If I see a man with a gun chasing me and I defend myself, how the hell can the man with the gun claim self defense?
The most likely scenario is that the gun was presented long before it was shot…which would be WHY Trayvon felt threatened and attacked. I have a hard time believing no one knew a gun was there until he pulled it out to shoot. It sounds like Zimmerman couldn’t even handle himself very well in terms of self defense…so why was he chasing someone down?[/quote]
Right, you’d just bumrush a dude aiming a gun at you. Sounds logical.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
LOL!! If I see a man with a gun chasing me and I defend myself, how the hell can the man with the gun claim self defense?
[/quote]
See my previous post regarding “provocation.” Waiving a gun in someone’s face certainly is potentially provocation.
Here, we have no evidence the gun was visible until shot, so it’s conjecture at this point. If someone comes up with something besides your speculation, it would change things.
As an aside, if this was reversed, and, say the Black guy wrestled the gun away from the Hispanic guy, and killed him, he would be using the similar defense as the Hispanic guy, as there was little (or nothing) that I can see that identified the Hispanic guy as neighborhood watch or the like.
Trayvon was chased like an animal, cornered and harassed by a white fucker who thought he was Judge Dredd.
Zimmercunt was told to stay in his car and he didn’t. Zimmercunt was going for the kill.
Where are the ER reports that show Zimmercunt sustained a broken nose? Poor pussy. I’m supposed to feel sorry for that child murderer now?
Zimmercunt is a fat bastard, 240 pounds, and he couldn’t even take a punch from a slimmer kid that the only solution was to end the fight by shooting him dead.
Zimmercunt and the police used Stand your Ground and Self defence to cover his racist ass.
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
We have multiple witnesses (including some that were previously saying the opposite to the media) saying the Hispanic guy was knocked on his back getting pounded by the 6’2" Black guy. The Hispanic guy (not the Black guy as the girlfriend initially said) was screaming for help, had a broken nose, and was generally in a world of hurt.[/quote]
Let’s say these are the facts. Then the question that begs to be answered is obviously why would you question someone who was simply walking around? Why not just follow him and wait for him to do something that’s illegal?
It’s a sad state of affairs when private property is worth more than another human life. I mean that’s what this was all about right? The neighborhood had recently had a rash of break ins which put everyone on edge. But it’s only stuff and now, because of that fear, two lives are ruined. Sad.
[quote]atypical1 wrote:
Then the question that begs to be answered is obviously why would you question someone who was simply walking around? Why not just follow him and wait for him to do something that’s illegal? [/quote]
That’s an interesting question, but not legally relevant to the criminal charges potentially pending against the Hispanic guy.
Again, a victim of a beating can respond with deadly force to stop the beating the Hispanic was taking (broken nose, busted back of head, busted ribs, on the ground) UNLESS the beating victim “provoked” the attack.
“Provoke” does not mean be a putz who might need to get sued in civil court for being a racist putz (allegations that appear to have been false). “Provoke” means to walk up and assault someone or, very occasionally, used “fighting words.”
[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
Trayvon was chased like an animal, cornered and harassed by a white fucker who thought he was Judge Dredd.
Zimmercunt was told to stay in his car and he didn’t. Zimmercunt was going for the kill.
Where are the ER reports that shows Zimmercunt sustained a broken nose? Poor pussy. I’m supposed to feel sorry for that child murderer now?
Zimmercunt is a fat bastard, 240 pounds, and he couldn’t even take a punch from a slimmer kid that the only solution was to end the fight by shooting him dead.
Zimmercunt and the police used Stand your Ground and Self defence to cover his racist ass.
Zimmercunt has still not be arrested yet.
Zimmercunt WILL get away with this.
[/quote]
Have you considered rational thought processes considering known evidence?
Or is it just easier to call a Hispanic white so you can create a make believe scenario to match your racially shaded world view instead of considering known facts?
Your opinion is your right of course but please tell me you are acting out of intentional bias. Otherwise, you are really weakening your argument and any potential sentiment favoring your stance as more info is made public.
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
We have multiple witnesses (including some that were previously saying the opposite to the media) saying the Hispanic guy was knocked on his back getting pounded by the 6’2" Black guy. The Hispanic guy (not the Black guy as the girlfriend initially said) was screaming for help, had a broken nose, and was generally in a world of hurt.[/quote]
Let’s say these are the facts. Then the question that begs to be answered is obviously why would you question someone who was simply walking around? Why not just follow him and wait for him to do something that’s illegal?
It’s a sad state of affairs when private property is worth more than another human life. I mean that’s what this was all about right? The neighborhood had recently had a rash of break ins which put everyone on edge. But it’s only stuff and now, because of that fear, two lives are ruined. Sad.
james
[/quote]
Fuck that. The merit of self defense and castle laws would be a stand alone topic but I disagree. If I wake up to a burglar in the house, his ass is leaving in a body bag. I don’t care if he’s just stealing some peanut butter.
[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
Trayvon was chased like an animal, cornered and harassed by a white fucker who thought he was Judge Dredd.
Zimmercunt was told to stay in his car and he didn’t. Zimmercunt was going for the kill.
Where are the ER reports that shows Zimmercunt sustained a broken nose? Poor pussy. I’m supposed to feel sorry for that child murderer now?
Zimmercunt is a fat bastard, 240 pounds, and he couldn’t even take a punch from a slimmer kid that the only solution was to end the fight by shooting him dead.
Zimmercunt and the police used Stand your Ground and Self defence to cover his racist ass.
Zimmercunt has still not be arrested yet.
Zimmercunt WILL get away with this.
[/quote]
Have you considered rational thought processes considering known evidence?
Or is it just easier to call a Hispanic white so you can create a make believe scenario to match your racially shaded world view instead of considering known facts?
Your opinion is your right of course but please tell me you are acting out of intentional bias. Otherwise, you are really weakening your argument and any potential sentiment favoring your stance as more info is made public.[/quote]
The vile and bitter racial bigotry of many of the black posters is (after the loss of life) the saddest part of these events.
It reminds me of OJ (who was guilty as hell, even though I personally agree the prosecution screwed up the case terribly) and how so many blacks supported him simply because he was black.
[quote]americaninsweden wrote:
“They always get away” then he follows him? Give me a break this guy instigates the fight and deserves to be put away. The burden of proof in Flordia law is to PROVE that he was acting in self defense, chasing someone down and confronting him, regardless of what happens negates self defense. There are also is no sense of “imminent danger” until he starts following a kid running away from him! There is also “proportional force” minor using fists (100 pounds less than Zimmerman) vs adult with a gun. Get off your conservative gun horse and look at the situation realistically. [/quote]
Zimmercunt was allegedly getting assraped. So far no ER reports on his grave injuries have surfaced. With the way the media is good at digging stuff up, you would expect evidences like these to boost Zimm’s defence. Broken nose, back of the head so bashed he had vertigo… lol… shit, the police should had taken Zimmercunt to the hospital, right? Or maybe the injuries were not as bad as we are told to believe. Maybe Trayvor wasn’t even hurting him that much. What got that scum mad was that he was the one at the bottom after thinking he could take the kid down.
A gun shot ended it all. A kid is dead, and his killer is walking free, protected by some bitch ass law.
[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
Trayvon was chased like an animal, cornered and harassed by a white fucker who thought he was Judge Dredd.
Zimmercunt was told to stay in his car and he didn’t. Zimmercunt was going for the kill.
Where are the ER reports that show Zimmercunt sustained a broken nose? Poor pussy. I’m supposed to feel sorry for that child murderer now?
Zimmercunt is a fat bastard, 240 pounds, and he couldn’t even take a punch from a slimmer kid that the only solution was to end the fight by shooting him dead.
Zimmercunt and the police used Stand your Ground and Self defence to cover his racist ass.
Zimmercunt has still not be arrested yet.
Zimmercunt WILL get away with this.
[/quote]
I find it entertaining that the way you portray the events actually does more to hurt your case than help it, both because you misconstrue that which is known fact, and at the same time paint those facts which are unknown in a ridiculous image that aids Zimmerman’s defense(For example: how does a 240lb trained martial artist lose a fight to a 140lb boy? That’s an interesting question, most rational people would say: he doesn’t. But he did… perhaps he was sucker punched, say from behind, while he walked back to his truck as his statement claims?)
[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
Trayvon was chased like an animal, cornered and harassed by a white fucker who thought he was Judge Dredd.
Zimmercunt was told to stay in his car and he didn’t. Zimmercunt was going for the kill.
Where are the ER reports that shows Zimmercunt sustained a broken nose? Poor pussy. I’m supposed to feel sorry for that child murderer now?
Zimmercunt is a fat bastard, 240 pounds, and he couldn’t even take a punch from a slimmer kid that the only solution was to end the fight by shooting him dead.
Zimmercunt and the police used Stand your Ground and Self defence to cover his racist ass.
Zimmercunt has still not be arrested yet.
Zimmercunt WILL get away with this.
[/quote]
Have you considered rational thought processes considering known evidence?
Or is it just easier to call a Hispanic white so you can create a make believe scenario to match your racially shaded world view instead of considering known facts?
Your opinion is your right of course but please tell me you are acting out of intentional bias. Otherwise, you are really weakening your argument and any potential sentiment favoring your stance as more info is made public.[/quote]
The vile and bitter racial bigotry of many of the black posters is (after the loss of life) the saddest part of these events.
It reminds me of OJ (who was guilty as hell, even though I personally agree the prosecution screwed up the case terribly) and how so many blacks supported him simply because he was black. [/quote]
I understand where the deeply ingrained, Pavlonian knee jerk, group think comes from but would really like to know if they actually believe the shit they are selling or if they can see their inconsistency and are just playing dumb.
The vile and bitter racial bigotry of many of the black posters is (after the loss of life) the saddest part of these events.
It reminds me of OJ (who was guilty as hell, even though I personally agree the prosecution screwed up the case terribly) and how so many blacks supported him simply because he was black. [/quote]
Vile and bitter racial bigotry? Are you fucking kidding me?? Do you think that way when you call arabs despicable names over PWI and probably in your real life, after they’d decimated some innocent Israelis? Then you bitter ass condones the death of numerous Palestinians under Israeli missiles. And you have the fucking guts to talk about ‘‘bitter racial bigotry’’ from black posters.
A racist killed an innocent black kid and the system is letting him get awy with it and you do not want me to be outraged about it? Fuck you.
JewBacca, the onus of proof in self defense cases is on the one who does the murdering. How is he going to prove there he was defending himself when not a single witness saw the beginning of the fight and he specifically followed one of those “fucking coons?” Racially motivated-hate crime.
[quote]americaninsweden wrote:
JewBacca, the onus of proof in self defense cases is on the one who does the murdering. How is he going to prove there he was defending himself when not a single witness saw the beginning of the fight and he specifically followed one of those “fucking coons?” Racially motivated-hate crime.[/quote]
The “coon” comment was debunked and discussed earlier.
[quote]atypical1 wrote:
Then the question that begs to be answered is obviously why would you question someone who was simply walking around? Why not just follow him and wait for him to do something that’s illegal? [/quote]
That’s an interesting question, but not legally relevant to the criminal charges potentially pending against the Hispanic guy.
Again, a victim of a beating can respond with deadly force to stop the beating the Hispanic was taking (broken nose, busted back of head, busted ribs, on the ground) UNLESS the beating victim “provoked” the attack.
“Provoke” does not mean be a putz who might need to get sued in civil court for being a racist putz (allegations that appear to have been false). “Provoke” means to walk up and assault someone or, very occasionally, used “fighting words.”[/quote]
What I am curious to know is say for example the shooting never occurred but instead Zimmerman followed Trayvon. Given what we know only, that Zimmerman was following Trayvon, Trayvon RAN away from him, Zimmerman pursued and then a fight ensued. If Trayvon admitted to having attacked Zimmerman because he was afraid of the man, could Trayvon have made a self-defense claim?
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
We have multiple witnesses (including some that were previously saying the opposite to the media) saying the Hispanic guy was knocked on his back getting pounded by the 6’2" Black guy. The Hispanic guy (not the Black guy as the girlfriend initially said) was screaming for help, had a broken nose, and was generally in a world of hurt.[/quote]
Let’s say these are the facts. Then the question that begs to be answered is obviously why would you question someone who was simply walking around? Why not just follow him and wait for him to do something that’s illegal?
It’s a sad state of affairs when private property is worth more than another human life. I mean that’s what this was all about right? The neighborhood had recently had a rash of break ins which put everyone on edge. But it’s only stuff and now, because of that fear, two lives are ruined. Sad.
james
[/quote]
Fuck that. The merit of self defense and castle laws would be a stand alone topic but I disagree. If I wake up to a burglar in the house, his ass is leaving in a body bag. I don’t care if he’s just stealing some peanut butter.[/quote]
Ah, but he’s ALREADY IN YOUR HOUSE.
Trayvon was just walking home. NOT scoping out houses or cars. All Zimmerman had to do was keep an eye on him until police arrived.
The vile and bitter racial bigotry of many of the black posters is (after the loss of life) the saddest part of these events.
It reminds me of OJ (who was guilty as hell, even though I personally agree the prosecution screwed up the case terribly) and how so many blacks supported him simply because he was black. [/quote]
Vile and bitter racial bigotry? Are you fucking kidding me?? Do you think that way when you call arabs despicable names over PWI and probably in your real life, after they’d decimated some innocent Israelis? Doesn’t your bitter ass then condone the death of numerous Palestinians under Israeli missiles?
A racist killed an innocent black kid and the system is letting him go with it and you do not want me to be outraged about it?
[/quote]
Well there is my answer. You are definitely seeing what you want to see. How sad.
[quote]americaninsweden wrote:
and he specifically followed one of those “fucking coons?” Racially motivated-hate crime[/quote]
AGAIN, this is not what he said. Have you been following the discussion or, ideally, have you actually listened to the tape?
Not only is the first letter clearly a ‘p’ (which, btw, doesn’t sound anything like a hard ‘c’), but the last letter is certainly a ‘k’, (much less) possibly a t.
AGAIN, an audio expert working for a news station cleaned up the audio and determined that the word used was PUNKS.
No one listening to the tape without an agenda can take away the word ‘coon’ from what is heard. While the word is largely incomprehensible, the phonetics of what we CAN make out simply do not match up with that interpretation.
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
We have multiple witnesses (including some that were previously saying the opposite to the media) saying the Hispanic guy was knocked on his back getting pounded by the 6’2" Black guy. The Hispanic guy (not the Black guy as the girlfriend initially said) was screaming for help, had a broken nose, and was generally in a world of hurt.[/quote]
Let’s say these are the facts. Then the question that begs to be answered is obviously why would you question someone who was simply walking around? Why not just follow him and wait for him to do something that’s illegal?
It’s a sad state of affairs when private property is worth more than another human life. I mean that’s what this was all about right? The neighborhood had recently had a rash of break ins which put everyone on edge. But it’s only stuff and now, because of that fear, two lives are ruined. Sad.
james
[/quote]
Fuck that. The merit of self defense and castle laws would be a stand alone topic but I disagree. If I wake up to a burglar in the house, his ass is leaving in a body bag. I don’t care if he’s just stealing some peanut butter.[/quote]
Ah, but he’s ALREADY IN YOUR HOUSE.
Trayvon was just walking home. NOT scoping out houses or cars. All Zimmerman had to do was keep an eye on him until police arrived.
[/quote]
Right. I was responding to an aside.
My opinion still stands on the main discussion until fact and evidence support otherwise.
[quote]atypical1 wrote:
Then the question that begs to be answered is obviously why would you question someone who was simply walking around? Why not just follow him and wait for him to do something that’s illegal? [/quote]
That’s an interesting question, but not legally relevant to the criminal charges potentially pending against the Hispanic guy.
Again, a victim of a beating can respond with deadly force to stop the beating the Hispanic was taking (broken nose, busted back of head, busted ribs, on the ground) UNLESS the beating victim “provoked” the attack.
“Provoke” does not mean be a putz who might need to get sued in civil court for being a racist putz (allegations that appear to have been false). “Provoke” means to walk up and assault someone or, very occasionally, used “fighting words.”[/quote]
What I am curious to know is say for example the shooting never occurred but instead Zimmerman followed Trayvon. Given what we know only, that Zimmerman was following Trayvon, Trayvon RAN away from him, Zimmerman pursued and then a fight ensued. If Trayvon admitted to having attacked Zimmerman because he was afraid of the man, could Trayvon have made a self-defense claim?
[/quote]
THAT’S the side many are taking. I mean WTF… how many men here WOULDN’T take out a dude following and harassing you?
It’s interesting how so many are taking the issue that Trayvon made the mistake here. None of this would be under discussion if fucking Zimmerman didn’t act like a bogus hero and pursue Trayvon.