[quote]John S. wrote:
This is what I hate about the internet, after I read threw it again I understand what you are saying now. Sorry my inital thought was that this was turning into a whitey’s fault thread. I am sorry[/quote]
Props John S. It’s very rare that someone admits they misunderstood and apologizes on this forum. Good man.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Alffi wrote:
Some discrimination is based on statistical averages. Like it’s harder for men to get apartments or men are more often targeted as potential pedophiles or criminals. That’s based on the simple fact that good evidence indicates that men are,on average,somewhat more dangerous than women although most men are not. Liberals engage in that type of discriminatory thinking all the time. However,they do not make a racial distinction due to being liberals. They will act as if white,asian,hispanic,black men etc. are the same mold although blacks (and to a lesser extent hispanics) are drastically more likely to engage in criminal behaviour. Tens of thousands of white women are raped annually by blacks and a couple black women by whites for example. But do you think a self-protection instructor is going to teach women to be wary of ‘dark’ people as well as dark alleys? That’s the power of PC. And that is discrimination against whites and in favour of blacks if you will.
Wow.
This was the biggest load of bullshit I’ve read…since the last thread I clicked on in this forum.
That last sentence was hilarious!!
[/quote]
LOL. Too true. The underlined part literally had me laughing out loud.
[quote]valiance. wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
You actually are keeping the black man down simply by virtue of being white in a society where that is an advantage. Your acceptance of this advantage rather than challenging it makes you complicit in oppression of black people. But lets ignore white privilege, the whole concept is not only way above your head and far too liberal for you, but will just incite a flamewar.
In all seriousness where in our society today…not 5, 10, or 50 years ago, but today does any person have an advantage due to their ethnicity? I’m not trying to make a joke I at all here.
I thank you for your candor and inquisitiveness.
There are huge advantages to being white in this society. Racism persists in many areas of US life: black people pay more for mortgages, are offered worse interest rates on everything from car loans to mortgages, are paid less wages for doing the same job, are offered jobs less frequently for the same credentials, are imprisoned more often and longer for the same crimes etc etc ad infinitum…
black names a disadvantage in job application:
racial discrimination in the job market:
http://www.chicagogsb.edu/pdf/bertrand.pdf
sounding black hurts your wages:
racial gap in employment:
http://www.lri.lsc.gov/pdf/03/030105_racepref.pdf
differential sentencing by race:
http://justicepolicy.org/images/upload/07-02_REP_MDMandatoryMinimums_DP-MD.pdf
racial disparities in drug arrests:
This above one is especially important because a lot of people (including black people) have the mistaken idea that half the black community is criminal drug users. White and black rates of drug use (per capita) are about the same http://www.oas.samhsa.gov/2k7/popDensity/popDensity.htm
, yet blacks are imprisoned far out of proportion to their criminality. http://www.hrw.org/en/reports/2008/05/04/targeting-blacks
minorities pay more for mortgages/autoloans:
rental bias:
http://hamptonroads.com/2008/10/rental-bias-study-argues-oversight
disparities in sentencing:
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/170062.html
something about the post i copied them from messed up the links somehow, they should work now…
Most of these things are hidden, and most of them are not sanctioned by society at large or the government or anyone.
here’s something on white privilege to get you started. It’s little things, but it all adds up. Think the death of a thousand cuts here. http://mmcisaac.faculty.asu.edu/emc598ge/Unpacking.html
Now why am I banging on about this? Well just as whites often say cleaning up the black community of criminality is a black issue, can’t we say cleaning up the white community of racism should be a white issue? But it’s not. Because you guys don’t see it, and can’t fight it, we’ve got to step in. But when we try to point it out you often say “well I never saw that”. Of course not, it isn’t happening to you, and it isn’t as blatant as in past times. Only by taking a wider view–like that of deliberate sociological studies, or if you had access to the combined knowledge of the black community could you see what’s actually going on. Not talking about anyone here personally, I’m just saying in general it’s easy to miss these kinds of things.
By the same token shouldn’t whites have a role in helping blacks police their community as well? Don’t we have some kind of responsibility to each other to point out our flaws?
The only kind of racism a lot of white people see is affirmative action, which was put in place to counter the current covert racism and redress historical inequalities. Because it’s the most visible it becomes a big target, but I guarantee that’s just about the only advantage of being black in this country and even it comes with its downside.
So in a way I can’t fault white people for not knowing, it’s tough to see if you’re not the target of it. Even in the 1950s and 60s if you polled them a majority of white people would have said they thought racial equality had already been achieved. I say this not to make fun (although that IS hilarious) but to show that we all have blinders on when something isn’t happening to us. I’m trying to acknowledge it’s tough for ya’ll to see what we’re pointing out. But instead of arguing with us about shit that has happened TO US, just listen. If you wanna start on the road to racial harmony it’s that easy. Unfortunately it’s hard to talk about (or listen to discussions of) race in this society. But hopefully that will change.
John S. wrote:
Now I havn’t taken a look at the websites yet but about the cop thing. That is the Individual, Understand I am just as pissed as you are about someone being shot over trying to get there wallet.
PS those links don’t work
Links are fixed now 
I would argue that it’s not an individual thing. It’s racist indoctrination that black men are scary or criminals. If you believe that, then in the heat of the moment when facing a black man who is potentially dangerous, you are just a tiny % chance more likely to pull the trigger. But over time and over multiple people that adds up to a lot of black men dead. And not just criminals. Undercover black cops are routinely shot dead by their colleagues. Try Malcolm Gladwell’s Blink for a good exploration of the topic. [/quote]
Wow. What a post. I hope you stick around this forum. Well done sir.
[quote]Alffi wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Alffi wrote:
<<<< Some discrimination is based on statistical averages. <<<>>> Tens of thousands of white women are raped annually by blacks and a couple black women by whites for example. >>>
Here we have another guy who starts out with a valid point for 7 words and then degenerates into gross misrepresentation.
Tens of thousands and a couple?
Would it be too much to ask if you are going to cite statistics designed to paint black men as THOUSANDS of times more likely to rape a white women that you produce some documentation.
That’s an outrageous statement to just make as if it were common knowledge.
Technical:
Breakdown:
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=F3E3CD97-197F-4D31-BF36-A4CBA45FCB13
[/quote]
I stand very regrettably corrected.
These statistics are from the Department of Justice, are simply raw unspun numbers and unless flatly falsified do in fact demonstrate that black men rape white women 30 thousand plus times more often than white men rape black women as of 2005. Statistically, 100% of black women were assaulted by black men.
I don’t know what to say. I would have never guessed anything like this.
I will state however that concluding that this indicates a stronger propensity for sexual assault as an innate function of black heritage would be a gross and dangerous cosmic oversimplification.
I see in this an even stronger case than ever for the disintegration of the family as facilitated by a generation plus of largely white liberalism being the primary culprit.
In other words to conclude that this is because black men are just more often rapists due to being black is a fatal mistake that will do nothing to solve the issue. Blaming so called white society will accomplish just as little. In fact either one will make all these problems worse.
If we could entertain the idea just for a second that family destroying socialist policies have been the seed bed of this rotting garden then, to Professor X, how this could be anything but evil is beyond me. I don’t blame race, black or white. I blame the socially toxic schemes of the new deal and the great society of which blacks have been by far the greater victims.
[quote]Alffi wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Alffi wrote:
<<<< Some discrimination is based on statistical averages. <<<>>> Tens of thousands of white women are raped annually by blacks and a couple black women by whites for example. >>>
Here we have another guy who starts out with a valid point for 7 words and then degenerates into gross misrepresentation.
Tens of thousands and a couple?
Would it be too much to ask if you are going to cite statistics designed to paint black men as THOUSANDS of times more likely to rape a white women that you produce some documentation.
That’s an outrageous statement to just make as if it were common knowledge.
Technical:
Breakdown:
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=F3E3CD97-197F-4D31-BF36-A4CBA45FCB13
[/quote]
So what are the numbers for white men raping white women?? Or does that not happen either? My sincere apologies in advance if I overlooked the answer to my question. Even so,I don’t know why this hasn’t already been addressed as well. If you’re gonna bring up statistics…do it with no bias. 
Funny how you criticized discriminatory thinking…and you have done so yourself.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Alffi wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Alffi wrote:
<<<< Some discrimination is based on statistical averages. <<<>>> Tens of thousands of white women are raped annually by blacks and a couple black women by whites for example. >>>
Here we have another guy who starts out with a valid point for 7 words and then degenerates into gross misrepresentation.
Tens of thousands and a couple?
Would it be too much to ask if you are going to cite statistics designed to paint black men as THOUSANDS of times more likely to rape a white women that you produce some documentation.
That’s an outrageous statement to just make as if it were common knowledge.
Technical:
Breakdown:
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=F3E3CD97-197F-4D31-BF36-A4CBA45FCB13
So what are the numbers for white men raping white women?? Or does that not happen either? My sincere apologies in advance if I overlooked the answer to my question. Even so,I don’t know why this hasn’t already been addressed as well. If you’re gonna bring up statistics…do it with no bias.
Funny how you criticized discriminatory thinking…and you have done so yourself. [/quote]
Well,my writing was as a response to a post implying that blacks get a short stick from whites. I think you have to consider it in that context.
That aside,most people (or whites anyway) still generally stick to their own race so the chances of white men raping more white women than black men raping white women should be very large,and seeing these statistics probably does not draw more white women toward black men either.
That and the huge population number difference. It may be relevant to note that it is often stated that the bulk of rapes are committed by someone known to the woman who in most cases,for white women,would be white men.
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=F3E3CD97-197F-4D31-BF36-A4CBA45FCB13
In absolute terms, more white men raped white women but relatively speaking far more black men raped white women.
[quote]Alffi wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Alffi wrote:
<<<< Some discrimination is based on statistical averages. <<<>>> Tens of thousands of white women are raped annually by blacks and a couple black women by whites for example. >>>
Here we have another guy who starts out with a valid point for 7 words and then degenerates into gross misrepresentation.
Tens of thousands and a couple?
Would it be too much to ask if you are going to cite statistics designed to paint black men as THOUSANDS of times more likely to rape a white women that you produce some documentation.
That’s an outrageous statement to just make as if it were common knowledge.
Technical:
Breakdown:
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=F3E3CD97-197F-4D31-BF36-A4CBA45FCB13
[/quote]
You forget that those numbers were put together by whitey, who also are probably the illegitimate children of Adolf Hitler!! LOL!!
Good post! Watch out though…citing facts and figures means you’re a racist around these parts. :>
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Alffi wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Alffi wrote:
<<<< Some discrimination is based on statistical averages. <<<>>> Tens of thousands of white women are raped annually by blacks and a couple black women by whites for example. >>>
Here we have another guy who starts out with a valid point for 7 words and then degenerates into gross misrepresentation.
Tens of thousands and a couple?
Would it be too much to ask if you are going to cite statistics designed to paint black men as THOUSANDS of times more likely to rape a white women that you produce some documentation.
That’s an outrageous statement to just make as if it were common knowledge.
Technical:
Breakdown:
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=F3E3CD97-197F-4D31-BF36-A4CBA45FCB13
You forget that those numbers were put together by whitey, who also are probably the illegitimate children of Adolf Hitler!! LOL!!
Good post! Watch out though…citing facts and figures means you’re a racist around these parts. :>
[/quote]
HH , The #'s also don’t take into account the wealthy white folks who have gotten away with it thru the yrs. because of their connections.I know several cases of this in the area in which i live.And it has been controled by your wonderful conservatives for almost 100yrs.
[quote]ron33 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Alffi wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Alffi wrote:
<<<< Some discrimination is based on statistical averages. <<<>>> Tens of thousands of white women are raped annually by blacks and a couple black women by whites for example. >>>
Here we have another guy who starts out with a valid point for 7 words and then degenerates into gross misrepresentation.
Tens of thousands and a couple?
Would it be too much to ask if you are going to cite statistics designed to paint black men as THOUSANDS of times more likely to rape a white women that you produce some documentation.
That’s an outrageous statement to just make as if it were common knowledge.
Technical:
Breakdown:
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=F3E3CD97-197F-4D31-BF36-A4CBA45FCB13
You forget that those numbers were put together by whitey, who also are probably the illegitimate children of Adolf Hitler!! LOL!!
Good post! Watch out though…citing facts and figures means you’re a racist around these parts. :>
HH , The #'s also don’t take into account the wealthy white folks who have gotten away with it thru the yrs. because of their connections.I know several cases of this in the area in which i live.And it has been controled by your wonderful conservatives for almost 100yrs.
[/quote]
I’ll back up HH here. Even if those “coverup” cases were exposed, it still wouldn’t be favorable for the blacks. Are you trying to tell me that there is 9,000 covered up cases about whites raping blacks? Don’t think so. Also, if you think about it (and I’m gonna get completely shelled for this) on average, whites don’t have as much motivation for crime, as they control more of the wealth. This is the same reason whites can’t get bitchy that they can’t make fun of blacks but blacks can make fun of them. It all comes down to what Chris Rock said “Whites can make fun of us, but only if we get to control the interest rates!”
(question, unrelated= why is my avatar fucked up, its a guy benching but all of a sudden its huge? PM me i need help fixin that)
[quote]valiance. wrote:
Black anti-intellectualism is largely the fruit of WHITE efforts to keep blacks uneducated and powerless.
Of course any attempt to reverse systemic racism is whined about as “reverse racism”.[/quote]
I feel that reverse racism is a very real issue. And before you take my head clean off for being a racist, I offer nothing but personal experience in evidence.
First off: I have nothing against anybody’s race, or culture. Some of my best friends are black. I hung out with hispanics, my school’s full of asians… etc.
But when I came to this country (Canada) I had NEVER MET A BLACK PERSON before. Ever. Not one. Mindfuck! I came without any sort of preconceived notions, too - the way I saw it, the way I was raised, everybody was equal. Work hard, don’t be a dick, and we’re all friends.
However, I quickly learned several important facts:
Uh… What the hell? I’ve never had a hand in any of this. Neither did my ancestors - fuck, we weren’t even on the same landmass! But that fact didn’t interest most of the black people I encountered - and again, I speak exclusively from personal experience, and the two hundred or so black people I’ve formally “met” in elementary, high school, college, the workplace, and the general living environment across Toronto and Ottawa, and their surrounding towns and areas.
My past didn’t matter. I was Whitey. Honkey. Still am. I stood, shocked and confused, while black people swore at me, threw eggs at me, pushed me around, and reminded me at every turn that they were better, faster, stronger, didn’t have to work and that book-learnin’ was gay, and that they would take all the white bitches.
And all of that was OK. Because see, the fact that sunburn shows on me makes calling me a cracker all right. It’s totally not offensive that people pre-judged me based on the colour of my skin.
I’ve been passed up for a job in favour of a black kid. I found it fishy and decided to get to the truth. Turns out the guy was way, way less qualified than I was… but in order to show Diversity, they had to hire him. So fuck qualifications - they would rather fill a certain colour quota.
My university has not only scholarships, but a number of spots, reserved exclusively for blacks. I suppose this is all done to encourage people to break negative patterns that years of racial discrimination created… but I think that only encourages a lack of work ethic and a sense of privilege. And denies admission to a number of people who worked their ass off simply based on their lack of specific skin colour.
In some areas, perhaps, being black today is a problem. Around here, being black is a huge boon. Financial assistance, education, preference in hiring, preference in citizenship (when my own father, who owns property, legally works, and sent two kids to university here didn’t get it)… My, that does sound awful! And best of all, everybody keeps apologizing and being very careful about what they say, whereas you can shoot your mouth off. And any hardships or setbacks? Well, don’t worry about it too much, it’s cause you’re black.
This by no means applies to all people of colour. But I’ve come to believe that it IS representative, at least in this province, of their general position and mindset. They’re better, and the world owes them stuff. What about me? 300 years of Mongolian occupation, the Crusades, wars with the Poles, the Swedes, Napoleon’s invasion, two world wars… When’s it going to be my turn? How come nobody owes me anything?
Kinoz,
Your experiences are common. I grew up in Detroit in an area that was similar. Same shit different time.
Notice how our black posters rant against us if we carry any of that experience into our lives today, yet they (esp Prof X) say black people are somehow entitled to hold their racist views of whites. They were oppressed so they can do or say what they want. Michelle Obama mentions how a white roommate at college was racist, and Michelle is given a pass for her thesis on seperation. Yet if one of us did similar and based upon our experiences, they’d call us racist scum.
Point this out to them and it reveals that you’re even more of a racist. They’re not hypocritical paranoids, now are they?
[quote]Kinoz wrote:
valiance. wrote:
Black anti-intellectualism is largely the fruit of WHITE efforts to keep blacks uneducated and powerless.
Of course any attempt to reverse systemic racism is whined about as “reverse racism”.
I feel that reverse racism is a very real issue. And before you take my head clean off for being a racist, I offer nothing but personal experience in evidence.
First off: I have nothing against anybody’s race, or culture. Some of my best friends are black. I hung out with hispanics, my school’s full of asians… etc.
But when I came to this country (Canada) I had NEVER MET A BLACK PERSON before. Ever. Not one. Mindfuck! I came without any sort of preconceived notions, too - the way I saw it, the way I was raised, everybody was equal. Work hard, don’t be a dick, and we’re all friends.
However, I quickly learned several important facts:
Uh… What the hell? I’ve never had a hand in any of this. Neither did my ancestors - fuck, we weren’t even on the same landmass! But that fact didn’t interest most of the black people I encountered - and again, I speak exclusively from personal experience, and the two hundred or so black people I’ve formally “met” in elementary, high school, college, the workplace, and the general living environment across Toronto and Ottawa, and their surrounding towns and areas.
My past didn’t matter. I was Whitey. Honkey. Still am. I stood, shocked and confused, while black people swore at me, threw eggs at me, pushed me around, and reminded me at every turn that they were better, faster, stronger, didn’t have to work and that book-learnin’ was gay, and that they would take all the white bitches.
And all of that was OK. Because see, the fact that sunburn shows on me makes calling me a cracker all right. It’s totally not offensive that people pre-judged me based on the colour of my skin.
[/quote]
Who said this was OK? You tried complaining to your school/the cops/local government/whoever and they said fuck off? Cause it’s definitely not OK. I’m sorry you had to associate with the dregs of black society, people steeped in the ghetto culture of failure.
[quote]Kinoz wrote:
I’ve been passed up for a job in favour of a black kid. I found it fishy and decided to get to the truth. Turns out the guy was way, way less qualified than I was… but in order to show Diversity, they had to hire him. So fuck qualifications - they would rather fill a certain colour quota.
[/quote]
What was fishy about it? That a black person could have higher qualifications than you? Every time you’re passed up for something do you assume it’s fishy? These questions aside, the black kid less qualified than you likely also ran into a lot more hardship than you, simply because of his race. I’ve links on previous pages if you’re curious. But there’s no denying that what happened to you sucks.
The problem is if you increase the percentages of blacks in any institution, you’re by necessity decreasing the percentages of other races. It’s a zero sum game; someone has to lose out. In this case that was you.
Here’s why black people need affirmative action: picture racial achievement as a footrace between two runners, one representing black people, and one representing whites. Before the race starts the white runner shackles the black runner with chains and huge weights. Halfway through the race, now that he’s a few hundred meters ahead, the white runner throws the key to the shackles back to the black runner. The black runner takes off his chains, but he’s still a few hundred meters behind. How do you propose we close that gap? Unless we tilt the field artificially in favor of blacks (in order to bring things back to equality) there will always be that hundred meter gap. In real terms this hundred meter gap is represented by everything from higher levels of white wealth, to black cultural practices that abhor education (a direct result of white efforts to foster anti-intellectualism in their black slaves), to the remaining discrimination that faces blacks today. All affirmative action is doing is stopping the clock while the black runner catches up to his white counterpart.
[quote]Kinoz wrote:
My university has not only scholarships, but a number of spots, reserved exclusively for blacks. I suppose this is all done to encourage people to break negative patterns that years of racial discrimination created… but I think that only encourages a lack of work ethic and a sense of privilege. And denies admission to a number of people who worked their ass off simply based on their lack of specific skin colour.
[/quote]
How do you propose we close the white-black achievement gap without preferentially helping blacks? If you shoot a guy in the foot, taking out the bullet isn’t unfair preferentially treatment; it’s redress for past wrongs.
[quote]Kinoz wrote:
In some areas, perhaps, being black today is a problem. Around here, being black is a huge boon. Financial assistance, education, preference in hiring, preference in citizenship (when my own father, who owns property, legally works, and sent two kids to university here didn’t get it)… My, that does sound awful! And best of all, everybody keeps apologizing and being very careful about what they say, whereas you can shoot your mouth off. And any hardships or setbacks? Well, don’t worry about it too much, it’s cause you’re black.
[/quote]
Again I can’t speak directly to the Canadian experience. I’m unsure why your racial policies would so closely reflect those of the US which has had a far more fractious history of racial interaction.
I know in the US overall being black today IS a problem. I bet not one of you motherfuckers crying about affirmative action today would want to black. It comes with all sorts of baggage you don’t want. Here’s a random example: A Girl Like Me - YouTube shit aint changed since 1940 as far as black peoples perceptions of themselves. You would NOT have the same level of self confidence in your ability to achieve if you were constantly bombarded with images of people like you failing or not even being given a shot. Culture matters, and black culture is fucked up, again largely–or at least partially–as a result of white oppression.
[quote]Kinoz wrote:
This by no means applies to all people of colour. But I’ve come to believe that it IS representative, at least in this province, of their general position and mindset. They’re better, and the world owes them stuff. What about me? 300 years of Mongolian occupation, the Crusades, wars with the Poles, the Swedes, Napoleon’s invasion, two world wars… When’s it going to be my turn? How come nobody owes me anything?[/quote]
WWII ended in 1945, segregation in the US ended in 1965, that’s 2 decades later. Additionally your people weren’t enslaved for generations and purposefully oppressed and disenfranchised in a country you didn’t even choose to come to. You are voluntary immigrants, black Americans–by and large–are not. How could the US not owe some redress to a people it systematically oppressed over centuries?
The problem of redress for non-black oppressed folk the world over also becomes logistically problematic (though I support it in principle). Half the time the fuckers who didn’t aren’t in power anymore, or the country’s borders have been redrawn, the country’s been renamed, the act of oppression was years ago, whatever. The difference is with black Americans we know exactly who did it and the motherfucker is right in front of us. It’s the US government who did it, with the tacit acceptance of a majority of white folk. How is it unreasonable to expect their descendants to pay for the unearned advantages that their ancestors’ racism bequeathed them and that they still enjoy to this day?
[quote]valiance. wrote:
Before the race starts the white runner shackles the black runner with chains and huge weights. [/quote]
That’s the end of your argument right there. How did he shackle anyone? Is he to be punished for what some white people did 200 years ago? Isn’t that…racism?
You libs never cease to amaze me with this stupid shit.
[quote]valiance. wrote:
Kinoz wrote:
valiance. wrote:
Black anti-intellectualism is largely the fruit of WHITE efforts to keep blacks uneducated and powerless.
Of course any attempt to reverse systemic racism is whined about as “reverse racism”.
I feel that reverse racism is a very real issue. And before you take my head clean off for being a racist, I offer nothing but personal experience in evidence.
First off: I have nothing against anybody’s race, or culture. Some of my best friends are black. I hung out with hispanics, my school’s full of asians… etc.
But when I came to this country (Canada) I had NEVER MET A BLACK PERSON before. Ever. Not one. Mindfuck! I came without any sort of preconceived notions, too - the way I saw it, the way I was raised, everybody was equal. Work hard, don’t be a dick, and we’re all friends.
However, I quickly learned several important facts:
Uh… What the hell? I’ve never had a hand in any of this. Neither did my ancestors - fuck, we weren’t even on the same landmass! But that fact didn’t interest most of the black people I encountered - and again, I speak exclusively from personal experience, and the two hundred or so black people I’ve formally “met” in elementary, high school, college, the workplace, and the general living environment across Toronto and Ottawa, and their surrounding towns and areas.
My past didn’t matter. I was Whitey. Honkey. Still am. I stood, shocked and confused, while black people swore at me, threw eggs at me, pushed me around, and reminded me at every turn that they were better, faster, stronger, didn’t have to work and that book-learnin’ was gay, and that they would take all the white bitches.
And all of that was OK. Because see, the fact that sunburn shows on me makes calling me a cracker all right. It’s totally not offensive that people pre-judged me based on the colour of my skin.
Who said this was OK? You tried complaining to your school/the cops/local government/whoever and they said fuck off? Cause it’s definitely not OK. I’m sorry you had to associate with the dregs of black society, people steeped in the ghetto culture of failure.
Kinoz wrote:
I’ve been passed up for a job in favour of a black kid. I found it fishy and decided to get to the truth. Turns out the guy was way, way less qualified than I was… but in order to show Diversity, they had to hire him. So fuck qualifications - they would rather fill a certain colour quota.
What was fishy about it? That a black person could have higher qualifications than you? Every time you’re passed up for something do you assume it’s fishy? These questions aside, the black kid less qualified than you likely also ran into a lot more hardship than you, simply because of his race. I’ve links on previous pages if you’re curious. But there’s no denying that what happened to you sucks.
The problem is if you increase the percentages of blacks in any institution, you’re by necessity decreasing the percentages of other races. It’s a zero sum game; someone has to lose out. In this case that was you.
Here’s why black people need affirmative action: picture racial achievement as a footrace between two runners, one representing black people, and one representing whites. Before the race starts the white runner shackles the black runner with chains and huge weights. Halfway through the race, now that he’s a few hundred meters ahead, the white runner throws the key to the shackles back to the black runner. The black runner takes off his chains, but he’s still a few hundred meters behind. How do you propose we close that gap? Unless we tilt the field artificially in favor of blacks (in order to bring things back to equality) there will always be that hundred meter gap. In real terms this hundred meter gap is represented by everything from higher levels of white wealth, to black cultural practices that abhor education (a direct result of white efforts to foster anti-intellectualism in their black slaves), to the remaining discrimination that faces blacks today. All affirmative action is doing is stopping the clock while the black runner catches up to his white counterpart.
Kinoz wrote:
My university has not only scholarships, but a number of spots, reserved exclusively for blacks. I suppose this is all done to encourage people to break negative patterns that years of racial discrimination created… but I think that only encourages a lack of work ethic and a sense of privilege. And denies admission to a number of people who worked their ass off simply based on their lack of specific skin colour.
How do you propose we close the white-black achievement gap without preferentially helping blacks? If you shoot a guy in the foot, taking out the bullet isn’t unfair preferentially treatment; it’s redress for past wrongs.
Kinoz wrote:
In some areas, perhaps, being black today is a problem. Around here, being black is a huge boon. Financial assistance, education, preference in hiring, preference in citizenship (when my own father, who owns property, legally works, and sent two kids to university here didn’t get it)… My, that does sound awful! And best of all, everybody keeps apologizing and being very careful about what they say, whereas you can shoot your mouth off. And any hardships or setbacks? Well, don’t worry about it too much, it’s cause you’re black.
Again I can’t speak directly to the Canadian experience. I’m unsure why your racial policies would so closely reflect those of the US which has had a far more fractious history of racial interaction.
I know in the US overall being black today IS a problem. I bet not one of you motherfuckers crying about affirmative action today would want to black. It comes with all sorts of baggage you don’t want. Here’s a random example: A Girl Like Me - YouTube shit aint changed since 1940 as far as black peoples perceptions of themselves. You would NOT have the same level of self confidence in your ability to achieve if you were constantly bombarded with images of people like you failing or not even being given a shot. Culture matters, and black culture is fucked up, again largely–or at least partially–as a result of white oppression.
Kinoz wrote:
This by no means applies to all people of colour. But I’ve come to believe that it IS representative, at least in this province, of their general position and mindset. They’re better, and the world owes them stuff. What about me? 300 years of Mongolian occupation, the Crusades, wars with the Poles, the Swedes, Napoleon’s invasion, two world wars… When’s it going to be my turn? How come nobody owes me anything?
WWII ended in 1945, segregation in the US ended in 1965, that’s 2 decades later. Additionally your people weren’t enslaved for generations and purposefully oppressed and disenfranchised in a country you didn’t even choose to come to. You are voluntary immigrants, black Americans–by and large–are not. How could the US not owe some redress to a people it systematically oppressed over centuries?
The problem of redress for non-black oppressed folk the world over also becomes logistically problematic (though I support it in principle). Half the time the fuckers who didn’t aren’t in power anymore, or the country’s borders have been redrawn, the country’s been renamed, the act of oppression was years ago, whatever. The difference is with black Americans we know exactly who did it and the motherfucker is right in front of us. It’s the US government who did it, with the tacit acceptance of a majority of white folk. How is it unreasonable to expect their descendants to pay for the unearned advantages that their ancestors’ racism bequeathed them and that they still enjoy to this day?[/quote]Should american blacks pay for the disproportionate crime rate (how come blacks are killing even so many other blacks?),welfare costs and affirmative action programs that whites have been tolerating? As far as today goes, slavery was like a divine gift for the blacks of today because it allowed them to be born in one of the best nations in the world,while so much of the remaining black population resides in Africa being enslaved by other blacks,living in and possibly on mud,with the average IQ in african nations being borderline retarded at best,for some reason.
[quote]Alffi wrote:
valiance. wrote:
Kinoz wrote:
valiance. wrote:
As far as today goes, slavery was like a divine gift for the blacks of today because it allowed them to be born in one of the best nations in the world,while so much of the remaining black population resides in Africa being enslaved by other blacks,living in and possibly on mud,with the average IQ in african nations being borderline retarded at best,for some reason.
[/quote]
Another rocket scientist joins the fray.
Slavery= divine gift indeed.And WTF do you know about IQ’s in Africa?Are you a follower of Ellis?Lynn?
Please,keep your attention focused on Finnish affairs,because you are clearly clueless about the subject at hand.
[quote]Alffi wrote:
valiance. wrote:
Kinoz wrote:
valiance. wrote:
Black anti-intellectualism is largely the fruit of WHITE efforts to keep blacks uneducated and powerless.
Of course any attempt to reverse systemic racism is whined about as “reverse racism”.
I feel that reverse racism is a very real issue. And before you take my head clean off for being a racist, I offer nothing but personal experience in evidence.
First off: I have nothing against anybody’s race, or culture. Some of my best friends are black. I hung out with hispanics, my school’s full of asians… etc.
But when I came to this country (Canada) I had NEVER MET A BLACK PERSON before. Ever. Not one. Mindfuck! I came without any sort of preconceived notions, too - the way I saw it, the way I was raised, everybody was equal. Work hard, don’t be a dick, and we’re all friends.
However, I quickly learned several important facts:
Uh… What the hell? I’ve never had a hand in any of this. Neither did my ancestors - fuck, we weren’t even on the same landmass! But that fact didn’t interest most of the black people I encountered - and again, I speak exclusively from personal experience, and the two hundred or so black people I’ve formally “met” in elementary, high school, college, the workplace, and the general living environment across Toronto and Ottawa, and their surrounding towns and areas.
My past didn’t matter. I was Whitey. Honkey. Still am. I stood, shocked and confused, while black people swore at me, threw eggs at me, pushed me around, and reminded me at every turn that they were better, faster, stronger, didn’t have to work and that book-learnin’ was gay, and that they would take all the white bitches.
And all of that was OK. Because see, the fact that sunburn shows on me makes calling me a cracker all right. It’s totally not offensive that people pre-judged me based on the colour of my skin.
Who said this was OK? You tried complaining to your school/the cops/local government/whoever and they said fuck off? Cause it’s definitely not OK. I’m sorry you had to associate with the dregs of black society, people steeped in the ghetto culture of failure.
Kinoz wrote:
I’ve been passed up for a job in favour of a black kid. I found it fishy and decided to get to the truth. Turns out the guy was way, way less qualified than I was… but in order to show Diversity, they had to hire him. So fuck qualifications - they would rather fill a certain colour quota.
What was fishy about it? That a black person could have higher qualifications than you? Every time you’re passed up for something do you assume it’s fishy? These questions aside, the black kid less qualified than you likely also ran into a lot more hardship than you, simply because of his race. I’ve links on previous pages if you’re curious. But there’s no denying that what happened to you sucks.
The problem is if you increase the percentages of blacks in any institution, you’re by necessity decreasing the percentages of other races. It’s a zero sum game; someone has to lose out. In this case that was you.
Here’s why black people need affirmative action: picture racial achievement as a footrace between two runners, one representing black people, and one representing whites. Before the race starts the white runner shackles the black runner with chains and huge weights. Halfway through the race, now that he’s a few hundred meters ahead, the white runner throws the key to the shackles back to the black runner. The black runner takes off his chains, but he’s still a few hundred meters behind. How do you propose we close that gap? Unless we tilt the field artificially in favor of blacks (in order to bring things back to equality) there will always be that hundred meter gap. In real terms this hundred meter gap is represented by everything from higher levels of white wealth, to black cultural practices that abhor education (a direct result of white efforts to foster anti-intellectualism in their black slaves), to the remaining discrimination that faces blacks today. All affirmative action is doing is stopping the clock while the black runner catches up to his white counterpart.
Kinoz wrote:
My university has not only scholarships, but a number of spots, reserved exclusively for blacks. I suppose this is all done to encourage people to break negative patterns that years of racial discrimination created… but I think that only encourages a lack of work ethic and a sense of privilege. And denies admission to a number of people who worked their ass off simply based on their lack of specific skin colour.
How do you propose we close the white-black achievement gap without preferentially helping blacks? If you shoot a guy in the foot, taking out the bullet isn’t unfair preferentially treatment; it’s redress for past wrongs.
Kinoz wrote:
In some areas, perhaps, being black today is a problem. Around here, being black is a huge boon. Financial assistance, education, preference in hiring, preference in citizenship (when my own father, who owns property, legally works, and sent two kids to university here didn’t get it)… My, that does sound awful! And best of all, everybody keeps apologizing and being very careful about what they say, whereas you can shoot your mouth off. And any hardships or setbacks? Well, don’t worry about it too much, it’s cause you’re black.
Again I can’t speak directly to the Canadian experience. I’m unsure why your racial policies would so closely reflect those of the US which has had a far more fractious history of racial interaction.
I know in the US overall being black today IS a problem. I bet not one of you motherfuckers crying about affirmative action today would want to black. It comes with all sorts of baggage you don’t want. Here’s a random example: A Girl Like Me - YouTube shit aint changed since 1940 as far as black peoples perceptions of themselves. You would NOT have the same level of self confidence in your ability to achieve if you were constantly bombarded with images of people like you failing or not even being given a shot. Culture matters, and black culture is fucked up, again largely–or at least partially–as a result of white oppression.
Kinoz wrote:
This by no means applies to all people of colour. But I’ve come to believe that it IS representative, at least in this province, of their general position and mindset. They’re better, and the world owes them stuff. What about me? 300 years of Mongolian occupation, the Crusades, wars with the Poles, the Swedes, Napoleon’s invasion, two world wars… When’s it going to be my turn? How come nobody owes me anything?
WWII ended in 1945, segregation in the US ended in 1965, that’s 2 decades later. Additionally your people weren’t enslaved for generations and purposefully oppressed and disenfranchised in a country you didn’t even choose to come to. You are voluntary immigrants, black Americans–by and large–are not. How could the US not owe some redress to a people it systematically oppressed over centuries?
The problem of redress for non-black oppressed folk the world over also becomes logistically problematic (though I support it in principle). Half the time the fuckers who didn’t aren’t in power anymore, or the country’s borders have been redrawn, the country’s been renamed, the act of oppression was years ago, whatever. The difference is with black Americans we know exactly who did it and the motherfucker is right in front of us. It’s the US government who did it, with the tacit acceptance of a majority of white folk. How is it unreasonable to expect their descendants to pay for the unearned advantages that their ancestors’ racism bequeathed them and that they still enjoy to this day?
Should american blacks pay for the disproportionate crime rate (how come blacks are killing even so many other blacks?),
[/quote]
They do. In fact blacks are imprisoned far out of proportion to their actual criminality and sentencing is harsher.
[quote]Alffi wrote:
welfare costs and affirmative action programs that whites have been tolerating?
[/quote]
Blacks are disproportionately poor, so they suck up more welfare per capita. Why are blacks disproportionately poor? 97% of American blacks are the descendants of slaves. This means that for generations they had no opportunity to build wealth like people in other groups. Their opportunities were severely limited until 1965, and discrimination continues to this day.
I don’t deny there are problems in the black community. But not all of them are self-inflicted. Much of the black community’s problems are due to external molding by US culture at large.
Affirmative action is merely an attempt to reverse all the wrongs perpetrated against blacks for hundreds of years. i.e. almost all our nation’s history
[quote]Alffi wrote:
As far as today goes, slavery was like a divine gift for the blacks of today because it allowed them to be born in one of the best nations in the world,while so much of the remaining black population resides in Africa being enslaved by other blacks,living in and possibly on mud,with the average IQ in african nations being borderline retarded at best,for some reason.
[/quote]
You’re an idiot.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
valiance. wrote:
Before the race starts the white runner shackles the black runner with chains and huge weights.
That’s the end of your argument right there. How did he shackle anyone? Is he to be punished for what some white people did 200 years ago? Isn’t that…racism?
You libs never cease to amaze me with this stupid shit.
[/quote]
Fine, make it a relay race then. The guy who did the shackling was on the same team as the current runner, but the current guy didn’t do it himself, and he’s real sorry. Happy now?
oh and fuck off with the 200 years ago bullshit you disingenuous sack of crap. you know very well that slavery in the US didn’t end till 1865 (143 years ago, doesn’t even round up to 200) and segregation/Jim Crow didn’t end till 1965 (43 years ago). THERE ARE PEOPLE CURRENTLY ALIVE TODAY WHOSE PARENTS WERE BORN INTO SLAVERY. http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/10/27/1027jones.html
we’re what? 5-7 generations out of slavery? 2/3rds of that time which was spent under Jim Crow?
Here’s the point again since you’re obviously fucking slow: black peoples’ sorry state in the US is largely (though not entirely) due to their history as slaves and oppressed people who were bullied and denied every opportunity for generations. The US government explicitly and then tacitly supported these policies of oppression, resulting in advantages for many non-blacks that are carried on to this day. All us libs want to do is catch blacks up with everyone else through direct intervention to counter the direct policies of oppression that existed before.
[quote]valiance. wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
valiance. wrote:
Before the race starts the white runner shackles the black runner with chains and huge weights.
That’s the end of your argument right there. How did he shackle anyone? Is he to be punished for what some white people did 200 years ago? Isn’t that…racism?
You libs never cease to amaze me with this stupid shit.
Fine, make it a relay race then. The guy who did the shackling was on the same team as the current runner, but the current guy didn’t do it himself, and he’s real sorry. Happy now?
oh and fuck off with the 200 years ago bullshit you disingenuous sack of crap. you know very well that slavery in the US didn’t end till 1865 (143 years ago, doesn’t even round up to 200) and segregation/Jim Crow didn’t end till 1965 (43 years ago). THERE ARE PEOPLE CURRENTLY ALIVE TODAY WHOSE PARENTS WERE BORN INTO SLAVERY. http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/10/27/1027jones.html
we’re what? 5-7 generations out of slavery? 2/3rds of that time which was spent under Jim Crow?
Here’s the point again since you’re obviously fucking slow: black peoples’ sorry state in the US is largely (though not entirely) due to their history as slaves and oppressed people who were bullied and denied every opportunity for generations. The US government explicitly and then tacitly supported these policies of oppression, resulting in advantages for many non-blacks that are carried on to this day. All us libs want to do is catch blacks up with everyone else through direct intervention to counter the direct policies of oppression that existed before.[/quote]
You certainly have a whole litany of excuses. There has to come a time when black people leave all that shit behind, get an education, and join the middle class.
And then, you’re notions are falsified by the very posters on here such as Prof X. The Prof is an oral surgeon and was a captain in the Air Force. He succeeded and is in the middle class. The opportunities are there and his parents (both teachers) made sure he took them.
As Bill Cosby has said, your litany of excuses for bad behavior simply make things worse — as usual, for dumb racist white libs.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
valiance. wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
valiance. wrote:
Before the race starts the white runner shackles the black runner with chains and huge weights.
That’s the end of your argument right there. How did he shackle anyone? Is he to be punished for what some white people did 200 years ago? Isn’t that…racism?
You libs never cease to amaze me with this stupid shit.
Fine, make it a relay race then. The guy who did the shackling was on the same team as the current runner, but the current guy didn’t do it himself, and he’s real sorry. Happy now?
oh and fuck off with the 200 years ago bullshit you disingenuous sack of crap. you know very well that slavery in the US didn’t end till 1865 (143 years ago, doesn’t even round up to 200) and segregation/Jim Crow didn’t end till 1965 (43 years ago).
THERE ARE PEOPLE CURRENTLY ALIVE TODAY WHOSE PARENTS WERE BORN INTO SLAVERY. http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/10/27/1027jones.html
we’re what? 5-7 generations out of slavery? 2/3rds of that time which was spent under Jim Crow?
Here’s the point again since you’re obviously fucking slow: black peoples’ sorry state in the US is largely (though not entirely) due to their history as slaves and oppressed people who were bullied and denied every opportunity for generations.
The US government explicitly and then tacitly supported these policies of oppression, resulting in advantages for many non-blacks that are carried on to this day. All us libs want to do is catch blacks up with everyone else through direct intervention to counter the direct policies of oppression that existed before.
You certainly have a whole litany of excuses.
[/quote]
No, what I have are facts that you don’t want to acknowledge because you’re scared that if you do you don’t get to feel superior to black people. If you acknowledge the blatant racism blacks faced in this country and how it still holds them back today you wouldn’t get to feel so self important.
So what’s the problem with the relay race analogy? no answer for that? I changed it just for you…
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
There has to come a time when black people leave all that shit behind, get an education, and join the middle class.
[/quote]
Again you try to make it seem like discrimination is some long dead ghost when it is here with us to this day and didnt die off in its more virulent forms till 43 years ago
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
And then, you’re notions are falsified by the very posters on here such as Prof X. The Prof is an oral surgeon and was a captain in the Air Force. He succeeded and is in the middle class. The opportunities are there and his parents (both teachers) made sure he took them.
[/quote]
The existence of Michael Jordan and Oprah doesn’t disprove the fact that many blacks are in poverty for valid reasons. Just like the existence of Bill Gates doesn’t mean whites can’t be poor. Likewise the existence of Prof X doesn’t mean that other blacks who are failing just aren’t trying hard enough.
I would suggest that because Prof X had both parents, and both parents were teachers he was already fairly middle class. But I don’t know his life story. And even if he came in here to tell it to me himself it wouldn’t prove a damn thing.
This is an idiotic argument. Akin to: “all blacks don’t run as fast as Usain Bolt therefore they’re not trying hard enough.”
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
As Bill Cosby has said, your litany of excuses for bad behavior simply make things worse — as usual, for dumb racist white libs.[/quote]
What? You’re an idiot.
[quote]valiance. wrote:
<<< I would suggest that because Prof X had both parents, and both parents were teachers he was already fairly middle class >>>[/quote]
If only you and him could grasp the significance of what you just said and how just about everything else you say works to the detriment of this most important truth.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
valiance. wrote:
<<< I would suggest that because Prof X had both parents, and both parents were teachers he was already fairly middle class >>>
If only you and him could grasp the significance of what you just said and how just about everything else you say works to the detriment of this most important truth.[/quote]
I have no idea what you’re implying here. I’ve never denied the importance of an intact family to the wellbeing of a child–and society at large.