Black Peoples' Perception of Racism

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]John S. wrote:

valiance. wrote:
YOU face up to it. White people created a culture that destroyed and dehumanized black people, and now you’re complaining about reaping what you sowed. Black anti-intellectualism is largely the fruit of WHITE efforts to keep blacks uneducated and powerless. Of course any attempt to reverse systemic racism is whined about as “reverse racism”. While you also ignore the very real barriers that make life significantly harder as a black person in the US today.

What do you mean reaping what we sowed? When did I ever keep the black man down. Why is it ok for you to lump all white people together but if I was to hold you accountable for every black mans mistakes I’m a fucking racist. If you are to hold me accountable for every mistake a white person has made then I will hold you accountable for every black persons mistake.

Or we could agree to judge the individual, which would you prefer?[/quote]

Wait…when does “judge the individual” start? If that were happening already, there wouldn’t be stats like what was listed related only to the race of those being discussed unless their race was truly a significant factor.

How should people react to issues like that? Ignore them so that you can feel better?

Systemic racism allows things like that occur with no opposition…and many of you will even defend it. What is the course of action against something like that?

62

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
<<< Yes,some IDIOTS embrace our socio-economic ills as cool…and what not. BUT they are idiots…and not the norm. >>>[/quote]

I would contend that these people are not idiots in the sense of lacking intelligence. I say that they have been systematically encouraged to think that way by largely white liberals who need them, politically, to never rise above their present despair without their help. That would ruin everything.

I would further contend, as I have in the past, that if a cosmic magic wand were waved and every white person in this country’s history had been black and vice versa with all other things being equal we would be in the exact same position in racial reverse.

In other words, once again, the causes are not people’s “blackness”. It is their refusal to participate in this society on an equal footing with everybody else because of being incessantly buried in visions of a past that nobody can change.

It is beyond me how anybody cannot see this as a recipe for unending strife. This is a western European society at it’s roots, but it’s most noble principles are valid for anybody who will participate in them. The best blacks can be offered is that. This is not and never will be Africa. Dividing up this nation, or any nation, by ethnic heritage is divisive by definition and will always make all of us weaker.

Men must see themselves as men first, Americans second and whatever color they are third for us to ever be able to go forward in any kind of productive harmony.

This may be the part of this post that really pisses you off, but I can only tell you that around here the “black first” attitude is the norm. That doesn’t mean there aren’t plenty of people for whom it is not the norm, but I think there are more than you realize.

63

[quote]Professor X wrote:
John S. wrote:

valiance. wrote:
YOU face up to it. White people created a culture that destroyed and dehumanized black people, and now you’re complaining about reaping what you sowed. Black anti-intellectualism is largely the fruit of WHITE efforts to keep blacks uneducated and powerless. Of course any attempt to reverse systemic racism is whined about as “reverse racism”. While you also ignore the very real barriers that make life significantly harder as a black person in the US today.

What do you mean reaping what we sowed? When did I ever keep the black man down. Why is it ok for you to lump all white people together but if I was to hold you accountable for every black mans mistakes I’m a fucking racist. If you are to hold me accountable for every mistake a white person has made then I will hold you accountable for every black persons mistake.

Or we could agree to judge the individual, which would you prefer?

Wait…when does “judge the individual” start? If that were happening already, there wouldn’t be stats like what was listed related only to the race of those being discussed unless their race was truly a significant factor.

How should people react to issues like that? Ignore them so that you can feel better?

Systemic racism allows things like that occur with no opposition…and many of you will even defend it. What is the course of action against something like that?[/quote]

Fixing racism takes everyone not just whitey. If everyone agreed to let the past go then we could move on. There will always be stupid people in every race, and that will never change but you holding whitey responsible for all your problems is fucking bullshit.

64

[quote]John S. wrote:
Professor X wrote:
John S. wrote:

valiance. wrote:
YOU face up to it. White people created a culture that destroyed and dehumanized black people, and now you’re complaining about reaping what you sowed. Black anti-intellectualism is largely the fruit of WHITE efforts to keep blacks uneducated and powerless. Of course any attempt to reverse systemic racism is whined about as “reverse racism”. While you also ignore the very real barriers that make life significantly harder as a black person in the US today.

What do you mean reaping what we sowed? When did I ever keep the black man down. Why is it ok for you to lump all white people together but if I was to hold you accountable for every black mans mistakes I’m a fucking racist. If you are to hold me accountable for every mistake a white person has made then I will hold you accountable for every black persons mistake.

Or we could agree to judge the individual, which would you prefer?

Wait…when does “judge the individual” start? If that were happening already, there wouldn’t be stats like what was listed related only to the race of those being discussed unless their race was truly a significant factor.

How should people react to issues like that? Ignore them so that you can feel better?

Systemic racism allows things like that occur with no opposition…and many of you will even defend it. What is the course of action against something like that?

Fixing racism takes everyone not just whitey. If everyone agreed to let the past go then we could move on. There will always be stupid people in every race, and that will never change but you holding whitey responsible for all your problems is fucking bullshit.
[/quote]

How can we just “let the past go” when the past is why things are the way they are now? Why not start by NOT using stats to justify racial differences and even hatred? Why not fix the problems ingrained systemically in the way minorities are treated?

It makes sense to you to think that black skin color means you don’t go to school? If not, then why don’t these things piss you off more than the fact that blacks react to them? Why wouldn’t you fix that FIRST?

65

[quote]Professor X wrote:
John S. wrote:
Professor X wrote:
John S. wrote:

valiance. wrote:
YOU face up to it. White people created a culture that destroyed and dehumanized black people, and now you’re complaining about reaping what you sowed. Black anti-intellectualism is largely the fruit of WHITE efforts to keep blacks uneducated and powerless. Of course any attempt to reverse systemic racism is whined about as “reverse racism”. While you also ignore the very real barriers that make life significantly harder as a black person in the US today.

What do you mean reaping what we sowed? When did I ever keep the black man down. Why is it ok for you to lump all white people together but if I was to hold you accountable for every black mans mistakes I’m a fucking racist. If you are to hold me accountable for every mistake a white person has made then I will hold you accountable for every black persons mistake.

Or we could agree to judge the individual, which would you prefer?

Wait…when does “judge the individual” start? If that were happening already, there wouldn’t be stats like what was listed related only to the race of those being discussed unless their race was truly a significant factor.

How should people react to issues like that? Ignore them so that you can feel better?

Systemic racism allows things like that occur with no opposition…and many of you will even defend it. What is the course of action against something like that?

Fixing racism takes everyone not just whitey. If everyone agreed to let the past go then we could move on. There will always be stupid people in every race, and that will never change but you holding whitey responsible for all your problems is fucking bullshit.

How can we just “let the past go” when the past is why things are the way they are now? Why not start by NOT using stats to justify racial differences and even hatred? Why not fix the problems ingrained systemically in the way minorities are treated?

It makes sense to you to think that black skin color means you don’t go to school? If not, then why don’t these things piss you off more than the fact that blacks react to them? Why wouldn’t you fix that FIRST?[/quote]

Black people do go to fucking school I know this because I went to school with them, And you know this because you went to school. Black people have the same rights as white people now. believe it or not right now is about as good as it gets for most of us.

66

[quote]John S. wrote:

Black people do go to fucking school I know this because I went to school with them, And you know this because you went to school. Black people have the same rights as white people now. believe it or not right now is about as good as it gets for most of us.[/quote]

This response did not touch on even one point that I made. Please…try again.

67

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
<<< Yes,some IDIOTS embrace our socio-economic ills as cool…and what not. BUT they are idiots…and not the norm. >>>

I would contend that these people are not idiots in the sense of lacking intelligence. I say that they have been systematically encouraged to think that way by largely white liberals who need them, politically, to never rise above their present despair without their help. That would ruin everything.
[/quote]
Maybe so,but they are not the standard.

So how exactly does this apply to what HH is saying?? But you are right in the first sentence.

You didn’t quote this from me. Besides,do ALL black people share that ideology?? NO.

[quote]
This may be the part of this post that really pisses you off, but I can only tell you that around here the “black first” attitude is the norm. That doesn’t mean there aren’t plenty of people for whom it is not the norm, but I think there are more than you realize.[/quote]

Not pissed at all…why do you “assume” that I would be? HH is not arguing against putting “black first”…he is taking upon himself to define what it is that “black” people are putting first…and using it to define an ENTIRE group of people. Socio-economic ills ARE NOT black culture…that is the main issue of this argument with HH. This may be your norm…but it still remains that this does not define an entire group of people’s culture. This may be the norm in Detroit(which doesn’t suprise me)…but there’s too many generalizations and blanket statements being made.

You’re taking issue just outside of what is actually being discussed concerning HH in this thread. How you missed this I do not know. You just recently criticized him for the way he’s using these same semantics.

68

[quote]Professor X wrote:
John S. wrote:

Black people do go to fucking school I know this because I went to school with them, And you know this because you went to school. Black people have the same rights as white people now. believe it or not right now is about as good as it gets for most of us.

This response did not touch on even one point that I made. Please…try again.[/quote]

You said that I think black people shouldnt go to school, Where you came up with that I have no idea. I was simply trying to show you that things are pretty much equal. I am not about avoiding change but I see that the changes have already been made. What we are dealing with now is not the government being racist or the majority of people. what we are dealing with is a few individuals in every race.

69

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

You’re taking issue just outside of what is actually being discussed concerning HH in this thread. How you missed this I do not know. You just recently criticized him for the way he’s using these same semantics.[/quote]

That’s not new. These people do everything to act as if he isn’t expressing racist views and isn’t a troll. They allow him to post unobstructed but gang up on posters like Lixy if they utter one syllable.

70

[quote]John S. wrote:

You said that I think black people shouldnt go to school,[/quote]

What? No, I didn’t. Try again. Read what was written and stop trying so damned hard to read INTO it. I was very clear.

71

[quote]Professor X wrote:
John S. wrote:

You said that I think black people shouldnt go to school,

What? No, I didn’t. Try again. Read what was written and stop trying so damned hard to read INTO it. I was very clear.[/quote]

It makes sense to you to think that black skin color means you don’t go to school? If not, then why don’t these things piss you off more than the fact that blacks react to them? Why wouldn’t you fix that FIRST?

This is what you asked me. And I told you how it was already fixed.

72

[quote]John S. wrote:
Professor X wrote:
John S. wrote:
Professor X wrote:
John S. wrote:

valiance. wrote:
YOU face up to it. White people created a culture that destroyed and dehumanized black people, and now you’re complaining about reaping what you sowed. Black anti-intellectualism is largely the fruit of WHITE efforts to keep blacks uneducated and powerless. Of course any attempt to reverse systemic racism is whined about as “reverse racism”. While you also ignore the very real barriers that make life significantly harder as a black person in the US today.

What do you mean reaping what we sowed? When did I ever keep the black man down. Why is it ok for you to lump all white people together but if I was to hold you accountable for every black mans mistakes I’m a fucking racist. If you are to hold me accountable for every mistake a white person has made then I will hold you accountable for every black persons mistake.

Or we could agree to judge the individual, which would you prefer?

Wait…when does “judge the individual” start? If that were happening already, there wouldn’t be stats like what was listed related only to the race of those being discussed unless their race was truly a significant factor.

How should people react to issues like that? Ignore them so that you can feel better?

Systemic racism allows things like that occur with no opposition…and many of you will even defend it. What is the course of action against something like that?

Fixing racism takes everyone not just whitey. If everyone agreed to let the past go then we could move on. There will always be stupid people in every race, and that will never change but you holding whitey responsible for all your problems is fucking bullshit.

How can we just “let the past go” when the past is why things are the way they are now? Why not start by NOT using stats to justify racial differences and even hatred? Why not fix the problems ingrained systemically in the way minorities are treated?

It makes sense to you to think that black skin color means you don’t go to school? If not, then why don’t these things piss you off more than the fact that blacks react to them? Why wouldn’t you fix that FIRST?

Black people do go to fucking school I know this because I went to school with them, And you know this because you went to school. Black people have the same rights as white people now. believe it or not right now is about as good as it gets for most of us.[/quote]

If you had read more into this thread before posting,you would have seen that HH is using the socio-economic ills that “black” people are facing as a means to define “black culture” as a whole. This is what Prof X was trying to point out to you.

By HH’s line of thought and what he has posted…its ok to relating skin color with not going to school,having 7 kids by 7 women,being unintelligent,etc. Do these things define an entire group of people? Is this “black culture?”

That is what is being discussed…but I do agree with your mentality that “tit for tat” gets all of us nowhere.

73

[quote]John S. wrote:
Professor X wrote:
John S. wrote:

You said that I think black people shouldnt go to school,

What? No, I didn’t. Try again. Read what was written and stop trying so damned hard to read INTO it. I was very clear.

It makes sense to you to think that black skin color means you don’t go to school? If not, then why don’t these things piss you off more than the fact that blacks react to them? Why wouldn’t you fix that FIRST?

This is what you asked me. And I told you how it was already fixed.[/quote]

You didn’t understand that this was in response to the stats listed by Headhunter?

How are you not following the discussion that severely?

74

[quote]John S. wrote:
Black people do go to fucking school I know this because I went to school with them, And you know this because you went to school. Black people have the same rights as white people now. believe it or not right now is about as good as it gets for most of us.[/quote]

most of us? you mean you and your fellow white people right? because if this is as good as it gets for black people, we have failed as a country and as a people.

This is NOT the best of all possible worlds, but we could make it so if people like you didn’t constantly shit all over people’s efforts to improve it. We point out racism still exists and that current disparities are largely a result of historical racism and you say ignore it it’s not a problem, or even better “this is as good as it gets”. Fuck off.

Your fatalism is even more ironic given that you said this:

[quote]John S. wrote:

Fixing racism takes everyone not just whitey. If everyone agreed to let the past go then we could move on. There will always be stupid people in every race, and that will never change but you holding whitey responsible for all your problems is fucking bullshit.
[/quote]

So what are you doing to fight racism “whitey”? Oh yeah, denying that it exists, ignoring its historical effects on people today, and giving up because “this is as good as it gets”. You sir are truly this generation’s most vibrant civil rights leader and anti-racism advocate.

And now for this priceless bit:

[quote]John S. wrote:

What do you mean reaping what we sowed? When did I ever keep the black man down. Why is it ok for you to lump all white people together but if I was to hold you accountable for every black mans mistakes I’m a fucking racist. If you are to hold me accountable for every mistake a white person has made then I will hold you accountable for every black persons mistake.

Or we could agree to judge the individual, which would you prefer?[/quote]

You actually are keeping the black man down simply by virtue of being white in a society where that is an advantage. Your acceptance of this advantage rather than challenging it makes you complicit in oppression of black people. But lets ignore white privilege, the whole concept is not only way above your head and far too liberal for you, but will just incite a flamewar.

Assuming you aren’t keeping the black man down (which isn’t strictly true but lets assume it is for sake of argument), what you’re doing is blaming blacks for being anti-intellectual when racist policies of the past made them that way. THEN you decry any attempt to specifically help blacks (you know the ones who were specifically disadvantaged and targeted for discrimination) as reverse racism. You’re ignoring why things are they way they are and pretending every year has been like 2008.

I would love for us all to be judged as individuals, but race is a part of our individual identity and can say a lot about our experiences and opportunities (or lack thereof). You can’t judge someone as an individual without taking race into account because racism still exists. If you “don’t see race” you blind yourself to facts that are staring you in the face. Conservatives’ favorite trick is to pretend everything is equal now (it’s not!) and that history doesn’t matter (it does!).

75

[quote]Professor X wrote:
John S. wrote:
Professor X wrote:
John S. wrote:

You said that I think black people shouldnt go to school,

What? No, I didn’t. Try again. Read what was written and stop trying so damned hard to read INTO it. I was very clear.

It makes sense to you to think that black skin color means you don’t go to school? If not, then why don’t these things piss you off more than the fact that blacks react to them? Why wouldn’t you fix that FIRST?

This is what you asked me. And I told you how it was already fixed.

You didn’t understand that this was in response to the stats listed by Headhunter?

How are you not following the discussion that severely?[/quote]

This is what I hate about the internet, after I read threw it again I understand what you are saying now. Sorry my inital thought was that this was turning into a whitey’s fault thread. I am sorry

76

[quote]John S. wrote:
Professor X wrote:
John S. wrote:
Professor X wrote:
John S. wrote:

You said that I think black people shouldnt go to school,

What? No, I didn’t. Try again. Read what was written and stop trying so damned hard to read INTO it. I was very clear.

It makes sense to you to think that black skin color means you don’t go to school? If not, then why don’t these things piss you off more than the fact that blacks react to them? Why wouldn’t you fix that FIRST?

This is what you asked me. And I told you how it was already fixed.

You didn’t understand that this was in response to the stats listed by Headhunter?

How are you not following the discussion that severely?

This is what I hate about the internet, after I read threw it again I understand what you are saying now. Sorry my inital thought was that this was turning into a whitey’s fault thread. I am sorry[/quote]

So now that is cleared up,how do you personally feel about the real issue of the recent posts on this thread?? Especially concerning HH’s posts.

77

[quote]valiance. wrote:
John S. wrote:
Black people do go to fucking school I know this because I went to school with them, And you know this because you went to school. Black people have the same rights as white people now. believe it or not right now is about as good as it gets for most of us.

most of us? you mean you and your fellow white people right? because if this is as good as it gets for black people, we have failed as a country and as a people.

This is NOT the best of all possible worlds, but we could make it so if people like you didn’t constantly shit all over people’s efforts to improve it. We point out racism still exists and that current disparities are largely a result of historical racism and you say ignore it it’s not a problem, or even better “this is as good as it gets”. Fuck off.

Your fatalism is even more ironic given that you said this:
John S. wrote:

Fixing racism takes everyone not just whitey. If everyone agreed to let the past go then we could move on. There will always be stupid people in every race, and that will never change but you holding whitey responsible for all your problems is fucking bullshit.

So what are you doing to fight racism “whitey”? Oh yeah, denying that it exists, ignoring its historical effects on people today, and giving up because “this is as good as it gets”. You sir are truly this generation’s most vibrant civil rights leader and anti-racism advocate.

And now for this priceless bit:
John S. wrote:

What do you mean reaping what we sowed? When did I ever keep the black man down. Why is it ok for you to lump all white people together but if I was to hold you accountable for every black mans mistakes I’m a fucking racist. If you are to hold me accountable for every mistake a white person has made then I will hold you accountable for every black persons mistake.

Or we could agree to judge the individual, which would you prefer?

You actually are keeping the black man down simply by virtue of being white in a society where that is an advantage. Your acceptance of this advantage rather than challenging it makes you complicit in oppression of black people. But lets ignore white privilege, the whole concept is not only way above your head and far too liberal for you, but will just incite a flamewar.

Assuming you aren’t keeping the black man down (which isn’t strictly true but lets assume it is for sake of argument), what you’re doing is blaming blacks for being anti-intellectual when racist policies of the past made them that way. THEN you decry any attempt to specifically help blacks (you know the ones who were specifically disadvantaged and targeted for discrimination) as reverse racism. You’re ignoring why things are they way they are and pretending every year has been like 2008.

I would love for us all to be judged as individuals, but race is a part of our individual identity and can say a lot about our experiences and opportunities (or lack thereof). You can’t judge someone as an individual without taking race into account because racism still exists. If you “don’t see race” you blind yourself to facts that are staring you in the face. Conservatives’ favorite trick is to pretend everything is equal now (it’s not!) and that history doesn’t matter (it does!).
[/quote]

Black people the same oppertunity as I have. My way to fix racism is to stop playing the blame game, sorry if you can’t understand that. And I’m keeping the black man down by being white? FUCK YOU. Where did I ever blame blacks for being anti-intellectual? Race is as important as you make it. You can look at yourself as a black man or a white man or you can look at yourself as a man.

You have the same rights as everyone else. You are right about one thing tho, I don’t give a fuck what color you are.

78

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
John S. wrote:
Professor X wrote:
John S. wrote:
Professor X wrote:
John S. wrote:

You said that I think black people shouldnt go to school,

What? No, I didn’t. Try again. Read what was written and stop trying so damned hard to read INTO it. I was very clear.

It makes sense to you to think that black skin color means you don’t go to school? If not, then why don’t these things piss you off more than the fact that blacks react to them? Why wouldn’t you fix that FIRST?

This is what you asked me. And I told you how it was already fixed.

You didn’t understand that this was in response to the stats listed by Headhunter?

How are you not following the discussion that severely?

This is what I hate about the internet, after I read threw it again I understand what you are saying now. Sorry my inital thought was that this was turning into a whitey’s fault thread. I am sorry

So now that is cleared up,how do you personally feel about the real issue of the recent posts on this thread?? Especially concerning HH’s posts.[/quote]

I think HH is nothing more then a troll that should be ignored. but let me read a little bit more into what he posts and i will get back to you on that.

Edit*

While HH’s numbers are not telling the whole story they do point out something. Something there is failing them. We as a country are failing them. We have sat back blaming each other for are struggles. Its time to take the step forward and forgive.

I have put a lot of thought into this and after re-writing this about 10 times this is what I feel is the best answer i can give.

79

[quote]John S. wrote:
Black people the same oppertunity as I have.
[/quote]

WRONG

http://www.washingtonpost.com/...5091302070.html
http://www.mtgprofessor.com/...r_mortgages.htm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...7050902277.html
http://freakonomics.blogs.nyti…
http://justicepolicy.org/...imums_DP-MD.pdf
http://hamptonroads.com/...rgues-oversight
http://www.chicagogsb.edu/...df/bertrand.pdf
http://www.lri.lsc.gov/...05_racepref.pdf
http://www.nytimes.com/...amp;oref=slogin

[quote]John S. wrote:
My way to fix racism is to stop playing the blame game, sorry if you can’t understand that.
[/quote]

Yes the tried and true tactic of fighters of racism throughout history. That’s what Malcolm X did, that’s what Ghandi did, that’s what MLK Jr. did, that’s what Nelson Mandela did and that’s what John S. does.

[quote]John S. wrote:

And I’m keeping the black man down by being white? FUCK YOU.
[/quote]

Like I said, the concept is over your head.

[quote]John S. wrote:
Where did I ever blame blacks for being anti-intellectual?
[/quote]

I assumed you came in thread to support HH, considering your stance thus far I don’t think your positions are too far off. Your initial exchange with Prof X was confusing and did nothing to make me think you WEREN’T blaming blacks for anti-intellectualism. But if I’ve mischaracterized your position I apologize and request clarification: who do you believe is responsible for black anti-intellectualism and what is to be done about it?

[quote]John S. wrote:

Race is as important as you make it. You can look at yourself as a black man or a white man or you can look at yourself as a man.
You have the same rights as everyone else.
[/quote]

I wish this was true. When’s the last time the cops shot a white guy dead for pulling out his wallet?

[quote]John S. wrote:

You are right about one thing tho, I don’t give a fuck what color you are.[/quote]
How gallant of you. I don’t see what this has to do with anything though.

80

In all seriousness where in our society today…not 5, 10, or 50 years ago, but today does any person have an advantage due to their ethnicity? I’m not trying to make a joke I at all here.