THIS POST IS NOT BY ME… it’s by JAKE SHANNON… creator of scientific wrestling.com and a man that researched everything possible regarding catch as catch can wrestling.
These are HIS experiences with Furey and Cecchine, click the link for further information regarding these guys:
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One of the most common questions I receive is “What is your opinion of so-and-so (insert name of self-proclaimed Catch Wrestling guru here)” so I thought this topic might make for some good blog fodder (also I can point people to this blog instead of repeating myself again).
Well there are two names that have done much to publicize Catch Wrestling in the last decade, for better and for worse: Matt Furey and Tony Cecchine. From my research, it is my opinion (and the opinion of a substantial number of other qualified individuals) that both Furey and Cecchine have inflated or been fairly dishonest about their Catch-As-Catch-Can credentials.
While I respect that Furey is a verifiable division II NCAA collegiate-style wrestling champion and a world’s champion in Shuai Jiao, his level of understanding of CACC is not very deep in the opinion of many catch wrestling experts, most notably Karl Gotch (please see the scans of the actual letter Karl asked me to post at the bottom of this page). Since Furey used Gotch in his ad copy, plus the fact that Furey has not competed in submission grappling or catch wrestling rules competition, it makes Gotch’s dismissal all the more compelling.
I remember seeing a Matt Furey advertisement in a martial arts magazine promoting Karl Gotch’s conditioning methods in 2000 or 2001. I had long had an interest in Catch-As-Catch-Can, thanks in large part to learning about it from the Cauliflower Alley Club, so I looked into it. It was good stuff, Karl was legendary so I was happy to see CACC getting the attention it so deeply deserved.
Soon thereafter Furey began promoting a $600 or $700 (!) videotape set where he promised to teach the secrets of the nearly forgotten art of Catch Wrestling. Keep in mind, at this time Furey had not yet earned his reputation across martial art internet forums as “The King of Over-Promise and Under-Deliver” but still, it was simply way too much money. I figured I’d wait until someone sold their copy on Ebay.
When I finally got a hold of his material, it was a very mixed bag. I think that the Neck Crank video he put out is really good. The Farmer Burn’s material, however is horribly over priced with little usable material, and a lot of filler of Matt “proving” his skills on what appears to be newcomers to grappling. There is some good material on there but I personally wouldn’t spend $597 on the material when there is better, less expensive material by proven submission grapplers out there.
Turned-off by Furey’s over-the-top “pie-in-the-sky” ad copy and outrageous prices, I began to look elsewhere. A cursory internet search turned up Tony Cecchine’s name. He somehow had an endorsement from Lou Thesz so I bought his DVD course from Paul Viele and paid ~$250 for a lifetime membership to Cecchine’s ICWA.
I personally knew Cecchine for the better part of a year and even was personally chosen by him to run the West Coast chapter of his ICWA. When I began the in-depth research for my first volume of the Authoritative Encyclopedia of Scientific Wrestling I naturally began to ask questions about Cecchine’s claimed background and accomplishments.
These were the questions I raised years ago (and while I still have not received satisfactory answers, I have received threats and smears). I merely asked for evidence:
- Of Cecchine’s claim to be a Golden Gloves boxing champ (Made on a videotape by Furey while introducing Cecchine at a clinic. Shane Tucker has publically confirmed that Tony made this claim to him as well.)
- That Cecchine actually trained with Stanley Radwan
- That Radwan actually knew CACC hooks
- Can anyone explain the apparent change in Cecchine’s knowledge from the infamous “Gotch tape” to LAOH?
When I very politely and cordially asked for actual evidence of his claims (because I was writing my books for posterity and didn’t want to “re-write” history in any way) I was booted from his online forum without warning. Members of Cecchine’s inner circle then began a campaign of ad hominem and ad baculum attacks.
When this happened it only piqued my curiosity further and I became more and more determined to get to the bottom of things. Later, I was shown a tape that Cecchine had sent to Karl Gotch that proved without a doubt that as recently as the early to mid-nineties he had not trained in CACC. I felt like a fool for having not only believing his background without asking for proof, but even worse, for endorsing him.
The strange thing was, when I started to ask questions and piece together his scam, I found many, many others that had had similar problems and noticed strange things about his claims. Many of these people were once close to him and distanced themselves far from Cecchine once they began figuring things out.
Glenn Ortiz is one person that has made public his problems with Cecchine so I can mention him by name. He is a MMA fighter and was one-time Grappler’s Quest Champion. He had many many problems with the ethics of Cecchine and publically said so.
Ultimate Fighting Championship commentator Joe Rogan and 2003 ADCC champion Eddie Bravo also publically chastised Cecchine on a legendary MMA.TV thread for perpetuating a scam and never providing any solid evidence of his gradiose claims.
Billy Wicks is another. He is a retired sheriff and Catch-As-Catch-Can wrestler (who learned hooks directly from Farmer Burns’ student Henry Kohlen) that thinks nothing of Cecchine and has publically stated so. Cecchine once latched onto him for legitimacy.
Please read the hand written letter below from Mr. Wicks saying that he feels that both he and Lou Thesz were duped by “Super-Hooker” (as he sarcastically calls him) Cecchine.
Click here to see ‘Letter from Billy Wicks’
What motivates someone to inflate or make up unverifiable credentials; money, ego? Is it possible that Mr. Thesz made a mistake about Cecchine (as both Wicks, myself, and countless others have admitted to)?
One interesting tid-bit that I uncovered during my investigation is that Matt Furey and Tony Cecchine were business partners early on. Furey brought Cecchine in on a business deal that Furey had established with Lou Thesz. Furey told me on the phone (the only time I have ever spoken to him personally) that Thesz had an idea to capitalize on the grappling seminar market by barn-storming across the country as “The Three Hookers”. To Furey’s credit, he told me that he felt uncomfortable accepting the “Hooker” without competing as a catch wrestler.
Despite the unverifiable credentials and his poor ethics, I do think that several of the Cecchine “LAOH” tapes are decent. Cecchine certainly does draw heavily from CACC (I am guessing from watching Fujiwara tapes and from the little bit that both Billy Wicks and Lou Thesz showed him).
Another interesting piece of information is that Thesz’ longtime protege, a man named Mark Fleming, is a friend of mine. He ran Lou’s wrestling school for years and wrestled in Japan for something like 17 different tours. Lou was the best man at his wedding as well. Mark said Lou never once mentioned Cecchine to him.
I do believe that Furey is mostly interested in marketing himself and his products and does know a few legit catch principles and holds from his brief time with Karl Gotch. I know Karl personally and talk to him nearly every week. Unfortunately, Gotch personally does not think very well of Furey*.
If you really want to promote REAL catch wrestling, forget about the personalities involved. Find some place to wrestle. I started my club in Venice Beach on the grass with 3 guys. As the guys came on board we all pitched in to pay for some space in a small boxing gym, we’d meet Saturdays and some weeknights.
What will not promote Catch Wrestling effectively are inflated credentials, lack of gameness, flame wars, and any other “cult of personality” nonsense, all done at the expense of real Catch Wrestling done on the mat.
There are a TON of instructionals out there to learn from. There are clinics to attend and seminars to provide the hands-on fine tuning you need. Then just get back there and wrestle and share what you know with the other guys.
If you wait for other people to do it for you, it will never happen. That is how Scientific Wrestling came about. If you want to do catch wrestling, then wrestle best two of three falls and try to submit or pin your opponent. Just be careful, get liability release waivers and some cheap liability insurance. It can be done.
Bottomline, just wrestle… (and have fun!). Do that and the future of Catch Wrestling will look bright!
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