Bill Maher Gets a Little Edgy..

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
481

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]setto222 wrote:

Hahah I think we may have got off on the wrong foot or maybe I misrepresented myself. No harm. I meant it more along the lines of “what does God mean to YOU” or “Why do you worship?”.[/quote]

Well, it’s certainly not, “What can my genie do for me today.”[/quote]

Not sure where I implied that it was. Not sure why my inquiry has to be seen as an attack on your religious beliefs or why is makes me “simple minded”. What you quoted was me trying to explain my interest in Pat’s belief so maybe you should take it easy.

Are you living in such a hostile environment that you constantly have to have your guards up around your religious beliefs? Who the fuck implied that God is some sort of magical genie? I think that religion is very comforting so when I asked why God can’t be used as a sense of comfort I suddenly look as a deity as a slave?

Wtf goes on in these forums to make people so defensive?

482

[quote]setto222 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]setto222 wrote:

Hahah I think we may have got off on the wrong foot or maybe I misrepresented myself. No harm. I meant it more along the lines of “what does God mean to YOU” or “Why do you worship?”.[/quote]

Well, it’s certainly not, “What can my genie do for me today.”[/quote]

Not sure where I implied that it was. Not sure why my inquiry has to be seen as an attack on your religious beliefs or why is makes me “simple minded”. What you quoted was me trying to explain my interest in Pat’s belief so maybe you should take it easy.

Are you living in such a hostile environment that you constantly have to have your guards up around your religious beliefs? Who the fuck implied that God is some sort of magical genie? I think that religion is very comforting so when I asked why God can’t be used as a sense of comfort I suddenly look as a deity as a slave?

Wtf goes on in these forums to make people so defensive? [/quote]

We have had so many discussions on this topic and there is always a new person that drops in says something extremely inflamitory and then disappears. We have just come to write off these types of comments by saying something highly inflamitory also. We as Christians should be above this, but we are human also and make mistakes.

I personally want to appologize if I did anything to offend you.

483

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]setto222 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]setto222 wrote:

Hahah I think we may have got off on the wrong foot or maybe I misrepresented myself. No harm. I meant it more along the lines of “what does God mean to YOU” or “Why do you worship?”.[/quote]

Well, it’s certainly not, “What can my genie do for me today.”[/quote]

Not sure where I implied that it was. Not sure why my inquiry has to be seen as an attack on your religious beliefs or why is makes me “simple minded”. What you quoted was me trying to explain my interest in Pat’s belief so maybe you should take it easy.

Are you living in such a hostile environment that you constantly have to have your guards up around your religious beliefs? Who the fuck implied that God is some sort of magical genie? I think that religion is very comforting so when I asked why God can’t be used as a sense of comfort I suddenly look as a deity as a slave?

Wtf goes on in these forums to make people so defensive? [/quote]

We have had so many discussions on this topic and there is always a new person that drops in says something extremely inflamitory and then disappears. We have just come to write off these types of comments by saying something highly inflamitory also. We as Christians should be above this, but we are human also and make mistakes.

I personally want to appologize if I did anything to offend you.
[/quote]

Seems I was the pot calling the kettle black. I myself got very defensive. Sorry PushHarder, I’m not used to the vibe of this sub-forum and should have done my research before getting upset!

Thanks for having a cooler head Dmaddox!

484

[quote]setto222 wrote:

Seems I was the pot calling the kettle black. I myself got very defensive. Sorry PushHarder, I’m not used to the vibe of this sub-forum and should have done my research before getting upset!

Thanks for having a cooler head Dmaddox![/quote]

I have a tendency to be an ass too. I have my moments.

485

[quote]setto222 wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

Fair enough. I am defensive about my position.
My relationship with the Almighty is based on love. It’s a reciprocal relationship, it’s give and take on both sides. I do love the Lord. This is a concept that will sound strange to the Atheist because they sense nothing with regards to the metaphysical presence. You do have to be ‘trained’ some what to know it. To know the difference between a presence of God and illusion or that of coincidence. But when you know it, it’s unmistakable. The problem with expressing that is it’s personal experience. It’s something that’s difficult to relate to others in word. I have described that relating that knowledge or sense or understanding of God is about like trying to explain an acid trip to somebody who has never tried it. I can tell you things about the experiences, I can relate to you events or things relating to God in a true sense, but you will have no way of really ‘knowing’ unless you’ve been there. It’s the only way to really know.
I can use philosophical arguments to prove the existence of God, I can show you evidences of ‘God experiences’ or religious type stuff, but I cannot make you get it. I have no power to make you understand in anyway. At best I can provide you doubts about your own beliefs. [/quote]

Thanks for sharing. No need for philosophical arguments considering I have my own beliefs and you have yours. So long as we don’t kill eachother over it I think we’ll do just fine! [/quote]

We all have our own beliefs. I just want to be right about mine. :slight_smile:
Philosophy is a way of cutting through the crap and getting to the heart of matters. That is why I am drawn to the discipline. I just want the truth whether that be good, bad or indifferent.

486

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]kamui wrote:

Maybe, but truth is not supposed to make everything peachy and wonderful.

Sorry, couldn’t resist. [/quote]

Hence why I am a theist. :slight_smile:

Generally speaking, when talking about ‘atheists’ in general I don’t mean you. You are the exception to the rule, so to speak. You have thought about it. You have put in work. You are not preachy or militant about your atheism and in many respects you understand the positions of theists. You’re not the dumbed down, cheerleader type atheist.[/quote]

I wish I could be properly offended, but the ones you speak of probably piss me off more than you.

For other reasons though.

[/quote]

Sure, they misrepresent your demographic. Like the Westboro’s of the world misrepresent mine. If you have these loose-headed dawkins disciples ranting and running around like lunatics, it’s not a good reflection on the atheist who calmly and reasonably considered their positions. Like we have radical lunatic preaching hell, fire and brimstone for everybody but themselves makes a poor reflection on Christians.

488

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]setto222 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]setto222 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]setto222 wrote:

Hahah I think we may have got off on the wrong foot or maybe I misrepresented myself. No harm. I meant it more along the lines of “what does God mean to YOU” or “Why do you worship?”.[/quote]

Well, it’s certainly not, “What can my genie do for me today.”[/quote]

Not sure where I implied that it was. Not sure why my inquiry has to be seen as an attack on your religious beliefs or why is makes me “simple minded”. What you quoted was me trying to explain my interest in Pat’s belief so maybe you should take it easy.

Are you living in such a hostile environment that you constantly have to have your guards up around your religious beliefs? Who the fuck implied that God is some sort of magical genie? I think that religion is very comforting so when I asked why God can’t be used as a sense of comfort I suddenly look as a deity as a slave?

Wtf goes on in these forums to make people so defensive? [/quote]

We have had so many discussions on this topic and there is always a new person that drops in says something extremely inflamitory and then disappears. We have just come to write off these types of comments by saying something highly inflamitory also. We as Christians should be above this, but we are human also and make mistakes.

I personally want to appologize if I did anything to offend you.
[/quote]

Seems I was the pot calling the kettle black. I myself got very defensive. Sorry PushHarder, I’m not used to the vibe of this sub-forum and should have done my research before getting upset!

Thanks for having a cooler head Dmaddox![/quote]

Typed a response to this last night but it never showed.

Bottom line is you misinterpreted what I originally meant to convey. No big deal.

The haughty atheist here typically hurls out challenges to the God-fearing along the lines of, “Where is your God, dumbass? Why doesn’t He jump when you call ala why does He allow evil, etc., etc.?”[/quote]

I can see how that would be frustrating. Thank you for your response.

489

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]kamui wrote:

Maybe, but truth is not supposed to make everything peachy and wonderful.

Sorry, couldn’t resist. [/quote]

Hence why I am a theist. :slight_smile:

Generally speaking, when talking about ‘atheists’ in general I don’t mean you. You are the exception to the rule, so to speak. You have thought about it. You have put in work. You are not preachy or militant about your atheism and in many respects you understand the positions of theists. You’re not the dumbed down, cheerleader type atheist.[/quote]

I wish I could be properly offended, but the ones you speak of probably piss me off more than you.

For other reasons though.

[/quote]

Sure, they misrepresent your demographic. Like the Westboro’s of the world misrepresent mine. If you have these loose-headed dawkins disciples ranting and running around like lunatics, it’s not a good reflection on the atheist who calmly and reasonably considered their positions. Like we have radical lunatic preaching hell, fire and brimstone for everybody but themselves makes a poor reflection on Christians. [/quote]

That is part of it, but what also irks me is that for a very long time thoughts about sin, society and what you could call the human condition were only possible within a Christian framework.

There are too many people who dismiss the accumulated wisdom and obeservations of millenia of Western thinking because God forbid, they might have been Christians.

That is boorish ignorance of the highest order.

Even worse, it is aggressive, self righteous ignorance, which, interestingly enough, is exactly what they hurl as an insult towards Christians.

491

[quote]pushharder wrote:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/05/31/horror-author-stephen-king-has-a-message-for-atheists-and-non-believers-plus-see-what-he-said-about-intelligent-design/[/quote]

You know I have recently began to rethink my opposition to the intelligent design arguments. Mainly because a very brilliant mathematician and philosopher, whose stuff I recently came across came across the best counter arguments to ‘universe by chance’ I have ever seen. He put in some work. I think his name is Dr. Smart??, I have to go back and look. Basically it boils down to the mathematical improbability that this universe could have come to existence by chance is so infinitely small that it’s simply not possible.
He argues that using the chance activity of every proton in the universe were given 5X10^96 chances at ending up in the form that they currently have would need 3x10^46, identical in particle population, universes to even have a single chance at ending up in a universe of the configuration we have.
In other words, the random chance that this universe could have come into existence randomly based on the number of particles in the universe has a probability of 1 in x3x10^46.
I don’t know if I remember all that stuff right, though I tried to memorize it. But it’s pretty basic, the chance of this universe coming to it’s configuration randomly is impossible. To get a single shot at it vastly exceeds the number of particles in the universe.

I used to think that a 1 in 4 billion shot, it actually pretty good odds, but the mathematical reality is that the odds are way, way smaller than 1 in 4 billion.

Now this doesn’t even deal with how the particles came into existence in the first place, or existence in the first place. This is giving a huge gift, that existence it a factor of itself.

Now some will argue the infinite universes counter claim. This is their only out, but talk about something that has no teeth. The only thing valid about the multiverse theory is that it cannot be theoretically ruled out of existence. That’s the only remote possibility of such a thing, you cannot disprove it exists, like the flying spaghetti monster, I cannot disprove one exists. I think it’s an utterly ridiculous prospect. Talk about having no evidence, there is zero for the multiverse theory.
If there was only a single eye witness experience of God, ever, that’s still infinitely more evidence then there is of a multiverse, much less infinite mutliverses.

So I will now give a properly formulated intelligent design argument a thumbs up, not like that means much, but it’s a change from a prior stance I had. Arguments for theism only get stronger and arguments for atheism are only getting weaker.
My only problem with the intelligent design arguments is that I don’t have the tools to verify them, but I find them far more compelling than just being plain commonsense.

492

You have about the same chance, as putting a box of Rolex Watch parts in a building. Then, blowing the building up, and getting a completely assembled Rolex watch when the dust settles.

Not going to happen.

493

[quote]pat wrote:

If there was only a single eye witness experience of God, ever, that’s still infinitely more evidence then there is of a multiverse, much less infinite mutliverses.

[/quote]

We have more than one eye witness of God.

494

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
We have more than one eye witness of God.[/quote]
I saw him just yesterday, he was on the way to the store.

496

[quote]espenl wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
We have more than one eye witness of God.[/quote]
I saw him just yesterday, he was on the way to the store.
[/quote]

No, you didn’t.

497

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]espenl wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
We have more than one eye witness of God.[/quote]
I saw him just yesterday, he was on the way to the store.
[/quote]

Could be so. If it was it’s likely he passed you by because you have ridiculed him one too many times.[/quote]

Being certain about which you are not certain is not wise. I found myself on infidels.org and some of the disinformation, which had to be either deliberate or really stupid, made me laugh. What I do not understand is if you hold this opinion about such a major question, my must you feed it with disinformation or deliberately omit information to maintain it. If the truth is not sufficient to maintain your belief, maybe it’s your belief that’s the problem.

They made claims like Darwin was an atheist, he was not. His own claim is “I deserve to be called a Theist.” He was anti-religious, but he believed in God, alas, he believed in intelligent design.

498

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
You have about the same chance, as putting a box of Rolex Watch parts in a building. Then, blowing the building up, and getting a completely assembled Rolex watch when the dust settles.

Not going to happen.[/quote]

Like I said, until I saw the numbers, I was not convinced. The universe is a pretty big place and even lottery type odds, with regards to the universe, are pretty good odds. That is until I saw the actual math making the probability so minuscule, that it would take 3x10^46 universes to have a single probability, I found pretty compelling. My only problem is I am not capable of doing that kind of math. So I cannot do it myself and see.

499

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

If there was only a single eye witness experience of God, ever, that’s still infinitely more evidence then there is of a multiverse, much less infinite mutliverses.

[/quote]

We have more than one eye witness of God.[/quote]

Certainly. The point was that even a single shred of even sketchy evidence for God, is infinitely more evidence than that is for infinite multiverses. That’s because there is no evidence at all of a multiverse and 1/0 = a sideways eight.