[quote]Mick28 wrote:
So…why “BET”? There’s simply no need for such a thing.
[/quote]
Consumers will decide that.
[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
Key example of this: The Wire. Hands down the best TV show I’ve ever seen, yet had poor ratings and barely survived on HBO. Was that solely due to the majority black cast and slang? Maybe not. But I think that definitely played a big role.
…
I don’t think the Wire’s struggle for viewers was solely a racial thing, not at all, everything you said played a big part too. Just saying that the heavily black cast and (especially) the slang played a role. Pity.
…
Sorry, but I think that’s crap. I could point to a bunch of shows that were critically acclaimed and lasted half as long, with mostly white casts. Arrested Development springs immediately to mind, and if I pondered it for a moment I’m sure there would be more. And not that I was a huge fan, but Sex and the City only had 6 seasons ( http://www.amazon.com/Sex-City-Complete-Collectors-Giftset/dp/B000ASDFJU/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1208347246&sr=8-1 ).
[/quote]
Arrested Development is a great example, funniest show I’ve ever seen bar South Park. But I know people who’ve specifically been turned off the Wire by the slang alone. Is that racists? Not really. But it speaks to a largely black show having trouble becoming mainstream (bear in mind we’re not talking about Martin or the Jeffersons here).
[quote]
GDollars37 wrote:
Key example of this: The Wire. Hands down the best TV show I’ve ever seen, yet had poor ratings and barely survived on HBO. Was that solely due to the majority black cast and slang? Maybe not. But I think that definitely played a big role.
…
I don’t think the Wire’s struggle for viewers was solely a racial thing, not at all, everything you said played a big part too. Just saying that the heavily black cast and (especially) the slang played a role. Pity.
…
BostonBarrister wrote:
Sorry, but I think that’s crap. I could point to a bunch of shows that were critically acclaimed and lasted half as long, with mostly white casts. Arrested Development springs immediately to mind, and if I pondered it for a moment I’m sure there would be more. And not that I was a huge fan, but Sex and the City only had 6 seasons ( http://www.amazon.com/Sex-City-Complete-Collectors-Giftset/dp/B000ASDFJU/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1208347246&sr=8-1 ).
GDollars37 wrote:
Arrested Development is a great example, funniest show I’ve ever seen bar South Park. But I know people who’ve specifically been turned off the Wire by the slang alone. Is that racists? Not really. But it speaks to a largely black show having trouble becoming mainstream (bear in mind we’re not talking about Martin or the Jeffersons here).[/quote]
Hmmm. I’d be interested in the demographics of the audience - i.e., did it just have a problem catching on with non-blacks? If it were the slang, it may be cultural bias - or it may just be an annoyed audience who didn’t like no understanding the dialogue (a problem I have with some British movies aimed at the British audience that use Britishisms). Or is my example just cultural bias?
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
Good question, I don’t think that in the year 2008 there needs to be a “BET” or a “AET” or a “WET”. I think these types of things drive people apart. They create an “Us vs Them” Atmosphere which is not conducive to good race relations.[/quote]
I know you wrote this in response to someone else, but I want to touch on some of the things you say here.[quote]
As far as appealing to a certain segment of society, that has been going on for years and will continue to do so. Certain products are developed and marketed to certain demographics nothing at all wrong with that.
But when you name your network “BET” you are saying whites need not apply. It is inherently discriminatory.[/quote]
So is your problem solely with the name? If it were called “Urban Entertainment Network” or “Mostly Rap Videos Television” (which is what BET has become) would it be OK?
[quote]
Don’t get me wrong, if blacks were in fact shut out of the main stream media I would applaud such a network as that would give them more of an equal footing until true equality in the media existed.[/quote]
So how do you feel about Lifetime and Oxygen? These are “women’s” station if you were unaware. Women are definitely well represented well in television and they have TWO major stations. Hell, if I remember right Lifetime is in the top ten of subscribed cable channels. (Of course that can be misleading since cable channels come as packages.)[quote]
But as I’ve already pointed out there is equality in the media…no need for “BET”. You only need to flip through the various stations offered to see the many black people who either have starring roles or other important parts in the main stream media today. As previously stated, they are probably represented well beyond their 12% population figure…and I think that’s great because many years they were under represented.[/quote]
I don’t know the numbers and don’t care to look them up right now, but here’s my take on it. I agree, currently blacks are represented well in supporting roles throughout television and probably do exceed the population percentage. But, I can’t think of a single show on the big three networks that is made up of a primarily black cast(if there is one, help me out). I don’t know what happened, but it seems like there’s none right now. No Cosby Show, no 227, no Different World. I can’t even think of one current show on the big three with more than two major black characters. So, I don’t see the problem with a station that would offer viewers a chance to see more than a token minority.
There’s no “need” for shoes with wheels in the heels either, but someone made them and people bought them. There’s a market for BET. Someone bought them, too. Someone pretty big.
Anyway, it seems like your issue is mostly with the name of the station. It almost seems like you’re offended by the name. Well, you can’t complain about political correctness and be offended by a non-offensive name in the same thread.
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
malonetd wrote:
Finally, you might not agree that the NBC, ABC, and CBS are “WET” but Spike sure as hell is.
I couldn’t let this one slide.
You’re telling me that black guys don’t like to watch things like MMA, action movies, or drool over good looking babes?[/quote]I don’t know. Maybe you should ask some black guys. But I’m sure they would like they’re race represented once in a while.
And do you even read the entire post or just parts of it? I said I don’t have cable anymore. If Spike has broadened, good for them. But you do know it used to be The Nashville Network. We both know that a large part of the black population loves all things Nashville, right?
[quote]malonetd wrote:
And do you even read the entire post or just parts of it? I said I don’t have cable anymore. If Spike has broadened, good for them. But you do know it used to be The Nashville Network. We both know that a large part of the black population loves all things Nashville, right?[/quote]
Have you ever been to Tennessee? The South? You undoubtedly are thinking Nashville = Country Music = White People. Well, you’d be wrong on that. I’ve worked in the recording studios in Nashville, and they record a TON of black gospel, soul, and blues there as well. Nashville is very much a melting pot city – most who live there aren’t from there, but came for the music, so you get a surprising amount of diversity. Memphis is about 2 hours west of Nashville.
[quote]SinisterMinister wrote:
malonetd wrote:
And do you even read the entire post or just parts of it? I said I don’t have cable anymore. If Spike has broadened, good for them. But you do know it used to be The Nashville Network. We both know that a large part of the black population loves all things Nashville, right?
Have you ever been to Tennessee? The South? You undoubtedly are thinking Nashville = Country Music = White People. Well, you’d be wrong on that. I’ve worked in the recording studios in Nashville, and they record a TON of black gospel, soul, and blues there as well. Nashville is very much a melting pot city – most who live there aren’t from there, but came for the music, so you get a surprising amount of diversity. Memphis is about 2 hours west of Nashville.
[/quote]
I get that, but diversity wasn’t represented on The “Nashville” Network.
[quote]malonetd wrote:
SinisterMinister wrote:
malonetd wrote:
And do you even read the entire post or just parts of it? I said I don’t have cable anymore. If Spike has broadened, good for them. But you do know it used to be The Nashville Network. We both know that a large part of the black population loves all things Nashville, right?
Have you ever been to Tennessee? The South? You undoubtedly are thinking Nashville = Country Music = White People. Well, you’d be wrong on that. I’ve worked in the recording studios in Nashville, and they record a TON of black gospel, soul, and blues there as well. Nashville is very much a melting pot city – most who live there aren’t from there, but came for the music, so you get a surprising amount of diversity. Memphis is about 2 hours west of Nashville.
I get that, but diversity wasn’t represented on The “Nashville” Network.[/quote]
I don’t watch enough Spike to really know, but I’ve never noticed it being MORE ‘white’ than other channels. Last night I remember seeing they were playing a movie with Jamie Foxx portraying Tootsie Williams, founder of the Crips. It’s a movie focused on an aspect of the ‘black experience’ in America. At least I THINK it was on Spike, not positive though…
[quote]malonetd wrote:
SinisterMinister wrote:
malonetd wrote:
And do you even read the entire post or just parts of it? I said I don’t have cable anymore. If Spike has broadened, good for them. But you do know it used to be The Nashville Network. We both know that a large part of the black population loves all things Nashville, right?
Have you ever been to Tennessee? The South? You undoubtedly are thinking Nashville = Country Music = White People. Well, you’d be wrong on that. I’ve worked in the recording studios in Nashville, and they record a TON of black gospel, soul, and blues there as well. Nashville is very much a melting pot city – most who live there aren’t from there, but came for the music, so you get a surprising amount of diversity. Memphis is about 2 hours west of Nashville.
I get that, but diversity wasn’t represented on The “Nashville” Network.[/quote]
Charlie Pride?
[quote]SinisterMinister wrote:
malonetd wrote:
SinisterMinister wrote:
malonetd wrote:
And do you even read the entire post or just parts of it? I said I don’t have cable anymore. If Spike has broadened, good for them. But you do know it used to be The Nashville Network. We both know that a large part of the black population loves all things Nashville, right?
Have you ever been to Tennessee? The South? You undoubtedly are thinking Nashville = Country Music = White People. Well, you’d be wrong on that. I’ve worked in the recording studios in Nashville, and they record a TON of black gospel, soul, and blues there as well. Nashville is very much a melting pot city – most who live there aren’t from there, but came for the music, so you get a surprising amount of diversity. Memphis is about 2 hours west of Nashville.
I get that, but diversity wasn’t represented on The “Nashville” Network.
I don’t watch enough Spike to really know, but I’ve never noticed it being MORE ‘white’ than other channels. Last night I remember seeing they were playing a movie with Jamie Foxx portraying Tootsie Williams, founder of the Crips. It’s a movie focused on an aspect of the ‘black experience’ in America. At least I THINK it was on Spike, not positive though…
[/quote]
See, I don’t know enough about Spike either, at least not now. I was commenting on when it was TNN. Apparently it’s nothing like what the channel used to be.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
malonetd wrote:
SinisterMinister wrote:
malonetd wrote:
And do you even read the entire post or just parts of it? I said I don’t have cable anymore. If Spike has broadened, good for them. But you do know it used to be The Nashville Network. We both know that a large part of the black population loves all things Nashville, right?
Have you ever been to Tennessee? The South? You undoubtedly are thinking Nashville = Country Music = White People. Well, you’d be wrong on that. I’ve worked in the recording studios in Nashville, and they record a TON of black gospel, soul, and blues there as well. Nashville is very much a melting pot city – most who live there aren’t from there, but came for the music, so you get a surprising amount of diversity. Memphis is about 2 hours west of Nashville.
I get that, but diversity wasn’t represented on The “Nashville” Network.
Charlie Pride?[/quote]
Cowboy Troy?
[quote]malonetd wrote:
SinisterMinister wrote:
malonetd wrote:
SinisterMinister wrote:
malonetd wrote:
And do you even read the entire post or just parts of it? I said I don’t have cable anymore. If Spike has broadened, good for them. But you do know it used to be The Nashville Network. We both know that a large part of the black population loves all things Nashville, right?
Have you ever been to Tennessee? The South? You undoubtedly are thinking Nashville = Country Music = White People. Well, you’d be wrong on that. I’ve worked in the recording studios in Nashville, and they record a TON of black gospel, soul, and blues there as well. Nashville is very much a melting pot city – most who live there aren’t from there, but came for the music, so you get a surprising amount of diversity. Memphis is about 2 hours west of Nashville.
I get that, but diversity wasn’t represented on The “Nashville” Network.
I don’t watch enough Spike to really know, but I’ve never noticed it being MORE ‘white’ than other channels. Last night I remember seeing they were playing a movie with Jamie Foxx portraying Tootsie Williams, founder of the Crips. It’s a movie focused on an aspect of the ‘black experience’ in America. At least I THINK it was on Spike, not positive though…
See, I don’t know enough about Spike either, at least not now. I was commenting on when it was TNN. Apparently it’s nothing like what the channel used to be.[/quote]
It isn’t now, but I understand your point and I am sure everyone else with an IQ above 12 does as well.
That really only excludes a couple of people anyway.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
It isn’t now, but I understand your point and I am sure everyone else with an IQ above 12 does as well.
That really only excludes a couple of people anyway.[/quote]
I’m starting to question my own IQ since I keep responding to Mick.
To everyone else. I was wrong about Spike. I just looked at the website and it actually looks like a pretty cool network.
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
malonetd wrote:
Professor X wrote:
It isn’t now, but I understand your point and I am sure everyone else with an IQ above 12 does as well.
That really only excludes a couple of people anyway.
I’m starting to question my own IQ since I keep responding to Mick.
To everyone else. I was wrong about Spike. I just looked at the website and it actually looks like a pretty cool network.
Does insulting me somehow make you feel better about being the one who was wrong in our little discussion about SPIKE TV?
That’s pathetic.[/quote]
No, I feel bad for trying to have a conversation with someone as dumb as you. This is my last post to you so you can go run up your post count with someone else, champ.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Unless you are willing to admit that the two are not exactly the same because there are double standards that exist because of historical issues, there is no point in arguing and we might as well end this here (hopefully, you will least entertain the thought). I couldn’t tell you what Farrakhan preaches specifically because I’m not Muslim and I don’t care most of the time what he has to say. I also don’t follow the spin given in news programming much at all. I do know that the Million Man March was not a gathering in support of Farrakhan. It was a gathering in support of unity in the black community. Show me one instance in American history where a similar occurrance needed to or did occur in respect to whites and then you might have a point. The whole issue is the push for equality and brotherhood in the black community, not racism against whites. I taped most of the footage from The Million Man March and didn’t catch one sentiment equal to a racist KKK rally.[/quote]
But I didn’t say anything about a KKK rally. Nor did I say I was against the march, or the reasons behind it. I simply gave a what if scenario.
The only point I am making here is can it be acceptable if everything was the same, but with whites instead of blacks? Farrakhan’s involvement tainted it just like David Duke’s would have.
If one is acceptable, then the other must be too. If one is wrong, then the other must be too. Otherwise it is a double standard.[quote]
You don’t see generalizations and assumptions about Blacks in this country? [/quote]
Yes I do, and that does not make it right. And at the same time it does not make it right to do the same about the Whites in this country.[quote]
You can make whatever assumptions suit you, it doesn’t make them correct. You can ignore the differences in culture all you wish. That doesn’t mean they don’t exist. Unfortunately, because whites are in the majority, whatever assumptions you make do affect minorities to a greater degree than similar assumptions made by minorities in this country. That is a simple fact of reality, meaning the double standards work both ways, mostly to the benefit of the majority.[/quote]
I do agree, except for the idea that it benefits the majority. I believe it is a detriment to both.[quote]
I have noted very well exactly what I disagree with concerning Rev Wright. I also wrote that his comment about “garlic nosed Italians” was unacceptable to me (even though it occurred outside of regular church service and most of his congregation was probably not aware of it). I am also telling you that many of the things you take as “anti-white” sentiment from others (especially older black Americans) are the result of this country’s treatment of blacks less than 30 years ago…meaning those people who went through that are still alive and STILL pissed. That doesn’t mean I agree with all of it, it simply means I understand where it is coming from. Relating that directly to racism against blacks when Whites have never been subjugated in this society is ridiculous and ignores history.[/quote]
I understand it also, but it is still hate, and really no different then the hate that produced the problems they are angry about. When a person hates racism, it makes no sense for them to become racist.[quote]
The Mage wrote:
I find the biggest mistake made on the issue of race is the idea that there is an “us” and a “them”. Once we get rid of these false differences, and people realize there isn’t that much difference between us, things will be a lot better.
Professor X wrote:
Agreed, but that won’t happen by ignoring the past or the fact that many of the atrocities that still upset many people occurred in just the last generation.
[/quote]
We should not ignore history. But it should not be used as an excuse to promote a form of racism. If racism is not acceptable on one side, it is not acceptable on any side.
[quote]The Mage wrote:
The only point I am making here is can it be acceptable if everything was the same, but with whites instead of blacks? Farrakhan’s involvement tainted it just like David Duke’s would have.[/quote]
And your point is faulted. We have not achieved full equality yet in society. We are damn close, but not there yet, therefore acting like the two are equally interchangeable makes no sense. A belief that blacks are a negative held by whites would still hold more power in society than if the same sentiment were held by blacks concerning whites. It is as simple as numbers on this one and pretending like it isn’t so doesn’t erase that.
[quote]
If one is acceptable, then the other must be too. If one is wrong, then the other must be too. Otherwise it is a double standard. [/quote]
I already wrote there was a double standard. I also wrote why.
[quote]
I do agree, except for the idea that it benefits the majority. I believe it is a detriment to both.[/quote]
You can believe what you wish but a black man will still have trouble getting a cab in NY.
[quote]
We should not ignore history. But it should not be used as an excuse to promote a form of racism. If racism is not acceptable on one side, it is not acceptable on any side.[/quote]
I don’t promote racism. I think what Wright said about Italians is dead wrong. How black society would react to random comments by older black people is probably different than how society would respond to similar comments from white people (mostly because of the greater social weight negative statements carry). I am simply telling you what the reality is. It is up to you how you deal with it.