Bill Cosby - Black Conservative

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
65

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
You see…if there were a network that had just white people then they would be racist.

Even…if some black people viewed the programs.

Can you follow this?[/quote]

So what?! Even if I thought it was racist (which I don’t) I am free to not watch it. I don’t have to purchase Jet or Ebony Magazine either, for that matter. As a consumer I am free to do what ever I want.

Let me know when they start taking part of my paycheck to fund it then we can talk.

You are making an ignorant argument.

66

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
malonetd wrote:
I really don’t get the beef with BET. And I have yet to see one solid argument of why it is wrong or racist.

BET is a cable channel aimed at a specific audience. And the problem is…? Most cable channels do this. Lifetime, Oxygen, Nickelodeon, Spike, etc. There’s a cable channel for just about every population group you can imagine. It’s all just a matter of whether or not your cable provider carries it.

I just don’t get it.

Your comparisons really don’t make any sense.

While one program may appeal to kids and another to men 18 to 49, none that you have mentioned relies on race as it’s primary audience. Promoting black exclusively is indeed racist. If someone were to suggest a “WET” network one can only imagine the shit storm that would follow.

[/quote]

No, you don’t make any sense. Talking to you is like talking to my dog. Wait, no, my dog is smarter.

What about The Chinese Television Network? Arab Radio and Television? What about every other “race” based cable network? Are those stations OK since you seem to only take issue with blacks?

Finally, you might not agree that the NBC, ABC, and CBS are “WET” but Spike sure as hell is. Not only is it for whites, it’s for white males. Sure they don’t label it white male TV, but let’s call a spade a spade. It’s programming isn’t made to appeal to blacks. Hell, just a few years ago it was The Nashville Network. Just what audience do you think they are after?

(I must add that I no longer have cable and haven’t seen Spike in some time. Maybe it’s programming has changed.)

67

[quote]Professor X wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:

Key example of this: The Wire. Hands down the best TV show I’ve ever seen, yet had poor ratings and barely survived on HBO. Was that solely due to the majority black cast and slang? Maybe not. But I think that definitely played a big role.

That show was like watching a good book acted out on screen. I think you are right as far as the most important reason it didn’t survive, even though the focus wasn’t just on the black actors.[/quote]

Well, it did survive, they got the five seasons they wanted to do and were happy to wrap it up there, but given how fantastic the show is, it’s a shame not many were watching.

68

[quote]SinisterMinister wrote:
Professor X wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:

Key example of this: The Wire. Hands down the best TV show I’ve ever seen, yet had poor ratings and barely survived on HBO. Was that solely due to the majority black cast and slang? Maybe not. But I think that definitely played a big role.

That show was like watching a good book acted out on screen. I think you are right as far as the most important reason it didn’t survive, even though the focus wasn’t just on the black actors.

GREAT show indeed. I still haven’t seen Season 5, my girlfriend is mid-way thru season 4, so I’m waiting for her to catch up – the wait is KILLING me.

Here’s my thought on why its ratings are so low (especially since every other magazine review considers it damn near the equivalent of a classic Greek Tragedy put to screen):

You need to invest time and thought into the show before being rewarded. I had to force my girlfriend to watch the first 6 episodes before it ‘caught’ her. It was the same for me. A buddy of mine just told me 'Look dude, you HAVE to watch this show – give it 6 or 7 episodes and you’ll be hooked. He was right.

There’s a lot going on in The Wire – it’s not like other ‘cops & crime’ shows that lay out a basic plot that is resolved within an hour. It’s much more complex than anything else on TV, including The Sopranos. Additionally, the raw content of the show (drugs, violence, corruption, etc) certainly scares away its share of viewers as well. I don’t think it’s a ‘race’ issue.

As an aside, the original Tom Waits version of the intro song ‘Down In The Hole’ (as played in Season 2) is MILES better than any of the other versions…

[/quote]

Agree with you on every point but the last, I’m a fan of the Blind Boys of Alabama cover, but I’ll re-listen to all the versions when I get the Wire CD shipped from home next week.

I don’t think the Wire’s struggle for viewers was solely a racial thing, not at all, everything you said played a big part too. Just saying that the heavily black cast and (especially) the slang played a role. Pity.

And Season Five has some good stuff, especially the last couple of episodes, they bring it on home beautifully, but it feels a bit rushed, they could have used a full 12 episodes to flesh out some minor stuff, the pacing just feels a bit off if you’re used to the show. Still miles better than anything else out there.

69

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Agreed, yet when the focus is on uplifting the black community as a whole, we get significant criticism as if that is a “racist” concept. The message of unity was the true issue behind the Million Man March…yet it gets related only to Farrakhan lately as if everyone attending agreed with every notion the man represents. [/quote]

And how would you feel seeing a quarter million white people following David Duke? Yes the idea of unity is a great one. And when I listed to Stevie Wonder talk about unity, and the unity of the black and Jewish community, (and right in front of Farrakhan,) I cheered.

[quote]This is the same reason it is easily understood by many in the black community why Obama would have stayed at a church even though he may not agree with everything the preacher says from his pulpit.

For many of us, the goal is to promote unity within the Black community, something very hard to do under heavy scrutiny from “White America” which seems waiting to pounce on every individual detail they may not agree with.[/quote]

Is this not hypocritical? We are not supposed to make these assumptions, yet what I see are assumptions about “White America”. [quote]

We have people on this forum who act like the existence of BET is a racist concept…while completely ignoring the fact that before its inception, most tv was strictly “WET”. That didn’t even start to change until after the success of mostly black shows like The Jeffersons and Goodtimes which seemed to cross racial barriers and social consciousness.

The black community is still dealing with a growth process, something those completely separate from that culture seem too self indulgent to even attempt to understand.[/quote]

Forgive me but what I am noticing in your posts is that you have trouble seeing the racism that does exist in the black community, and then see it everywhere in the white community. You seem incapable of seeing your own prejudices on this issue.

I find the biggest mistake made on the issue of race is the idea that there is an “us” and a “them”. Once we get rid of these false differences, and people realize there isn’t that much difference between us, things will be a lot better.

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[quote]

GDollars37 wrote:

Key example of this: The Wire. Hands down the best TV show I’ve ever seen, yet had poor ratings and barely survived on HBO. Was that solely due to the majority black cast and slang? Maybe not. But I think that definitely played a big role.

…

I don’t think the Wire’s struggle for viewers was solely a racial thing, not at all, everything you said played a big part too. Just saying that the heavily black cast and (especially) the slang played a role. Pity.

…[/quote]

Sorry, but I think that’s crap. I could point to a bunch of shows that were critically acclaimed and lasted half as long, with mostly white casts. Arrested Development springs immediately to mind, and if I pondered it for a moment I’m sure there would be more. And not that I was a huge fan, but Sex and the City only had 6 seasons ( http://www.amazon.com/Sex-City-Complete-Collectors-Giftset/dp/B000ASDFJU/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1208347246&sr=8-1 ).

73

LOL!

74

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
malonetd wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
malonetd wrote:
I really don’t get the beef with BET. And I have yet to see one solid argument of why it is wrong or racist.

BET is a cable channel aimed at a specific audience. And the problem is…? Most cable channels do this. Lifetime, Oxygen, Nickelodeon, Spike, etc. There’s a cable channel for just about every population group you can imagine. It’s all just a matter of whether or not your cable provider carries it.

I just don’t get it.

Your comparisons really don’t make any sense.

While one program may appeal to kids and another to men 18 to 49, none that you have mentioned relies on race as it’s primary audience. Promoting black exclusively is indeed racist. If someone were to suggest a “WET” network one can only imagine the shit storm that would follow.

No, you don’t make any sense. Talking to you is like talking to my dog. Wait, no, my dog is smarter.

Since I’m smarter than you and your dog is smarter than me…Does he feed you from a bowl on the floor each day?

Finally, you might not agree that the NBC, ABC, and CBS are “WET” but Spike sure as hell is. Not only is it for whites, it’s for white males. Sure they don’t label it white male TV, but let’s call a spade a spade. It’s programming isn’t made to appeal to blacks. Hell, just a few years ago it was The Nashville Network. Just what audience do you think they are after?

I see, so if one appeals to a certain demographic that is the same as calling yourself Black Entertainment Television? Or…Chinese Entertainment Television for that matter. And then only hiring people from that specific race to run the network and star in the programming content.

By your faulty logic Disney is also in the same category because they market their products to kids. And I suppose that every single company that chases after a certain demographic is also in that category.

With logic like that it’s no wonder your dog takes care of you.

[/quote]
Wow. You suck at this.

You probably don’t even realize you just agreed with my other post.

75

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
Try to come back with something meaningful to contribute.
[/quote]

You are missing the point. This is a free country. If you want to make a WET you are free to do so.

Is it the programming you find offensive or just the name? Why is it ok for a channel to have all “white” programming as long as the channel title doesn’t include the name “white” in it but if targets a certain market by labeling it it’s not?

77

just what some need around here to know when to quit:

78

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
You came back with even less this time than your previous effort.

But I do give you credit for one thing-The fastest way to end a debate when you’re beaten on the facts, is to proclaim victory and walk away.

Nice move.

[/quote]

OK, chief. Let me spoon feed you since you obviously need it. Here you go, one question: How is one television station catering to a specific audience, in this case BET, racist?

79

[quote]The Mage wrote:

And how would you feel seeing a quarter million white people following David Duke? Yes the idea of unity is a great one. And when I listed to Stevie Wonder talk about unity, and the unity of the black and Jewish community, (and right in front of Farrakhan,) I cheered. [/quote]

Unless you are willing to admit that the two are not exactly the same because there are double standards that exist because of historical issues, there is no point in arguing and we might as well end this here (hopefully, you will least entertain the thought). I couldn’t tell you what Farrakhan preaches specifically because I’m not Muslim and I don’t care most of the time what he has to say. I also don’t follow the spin given in news programming much at all. I do know that the Million Man March was not a gathering in support of Farrakhan. It was a gathering in support of unity in the black community. Show me one instance in American history where a similar occurrance needed to or did occur in respect to whites and then you might have a point. The whole issue is the push for equality and brotherhood in the black community, not racism against whites. I taped most of the footage from The Million Man March and didn’t catch one sentiment equal to a racist KKK rally.

[quote]
Is this not hypocritical? We are not supposed to make these assumptions, yet what I see are assumptions about “White America”. [/quote]

You don’t see generalizations and assumptions about Blacks in this country? You can make whatever assumptions suit you, it doesn’t make them correct. You can ignore the differences in culture all you wish. That doesn’t mean they don’t exist. Unfortunately, because whites are in the majority, whatever assumptions you make do affect minorities to a greater degree than similar assumptions made by minorities in this country. That is a simple fact of reality, meaning the double standards work both ways, mostly to the benefit of the majority.

[quote]
Forgive me but what I am noticing in your posts is that you have trouble seeing the racism that does exist in the black community, and then see it everywhere in the white community. You seem incapable of seeing your own prejudices on this issue.[/quote]

I have noted very well exactly what I disagree with concerning Rev Wright. I also wrote that his comment about “garlic nosed Italians” was unacceptable to me (even though it occurred outside of regular church service and most of his congregatuon was probably not aware of it). I am also telling you that many of the things you take as “anti-white” sentiment from others (especially older black Americans) are the result of this country’s treatment of blacks less than 30 years ago…meaning those people who went through that are still alive and STILL pissed. That doesn’t mean I agree with all of it, it simply means I understand where it is coming from. Relating that directly to racism against blacks when Whites have never been subjugated in this society is ridiculous and ignores history.

[quote]
I find the biggest mistake made on the issue of race is the idea that there is an “us” and a “them”. Once we get rid of these false differences, and people realize there isn’t that much difference between us, things will be a lot better.[/quote]

Agreed, but that won’t happen by ignoring the past or the fact that many of the atrocities that still upset many people occurred in just the last generation.