Whether BET has good programming or not, I don’t get how it’s an example of racism. Are Telemundo or Namaste ethnocentric?
[quote]malonetd wrote:
I really don’t get the beef with BET. And I have yet to see one solid argument of why it is wrong or racist.
BET is a cable channel aimed at a specific audience. And the problem is…? Most cable channels do this. Lifetime, Oxygen, Nickelodeon, Spike, etc. There’s a cable channel for just about every population group you can imagine. It’s all just a matter of whether or not your cable provider carries it.
I just don’t get it.[/quote]
Its existence isn’t an issue - it’s just economics. When the cost of broadcasting went way down, due to cable and satellites making the universe that had included 3 national networks, plus Fox, which was cobbled together with bad-reception local stations, along with those other bad-reception local stations, then it became profitable to cater to non-majority niche audiences, like sci-fi geeks, cartoon lovers, or minority cultures. The same thing happened with a lot of consumer products when the costs of distribution went down - just look at beer now versus in the 80s.
[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
malonetd wrote:
I really don’t get the beef with BET. And I have yet to see one solid argument of why it is wrong or racist.
BET is a cable channel aimed at a specific audience. And the problem is…? Most cable channels do this. Lifetime, Oxygen, Nickelodeon, Spike, etc. There’s a cable channel for just about every population group you can imagine. It’s all just a matter of whether or not your cable provider carries it.
I just don’t get it.
Its existence isn’t an issue - it’s just economics. When the cost of broadcasting went way down, due to cable and satellites making the universe that had included 3 national networks, plus Fox, which was cobbled together with bad-reception local stations, along with those other bad-reception local stations, then it became profitable to cater to non-majority niche audiences, like sci-fi geeks, cartoon lovers, or minority cultures. The same thing happened with a lot of consumer products when the costs of distribution went down - just look at beer now versus in the 80s.[/quote]
There’s nothing for me to disagree with here, except that many other posters do think it’s existence IS an issue.
A white person’s perspective…
As to Cosby’s message I think it is a good one. I think it is a cross cultural message. I wish people in my own family would take it to heart. It essentially comes down to not allowing ourselves to become victims of circumstance; to take responsibility when the situation warrants it and to not be held back by negative things in our past.
I like Cosby. I always have. I remember watching his television shows. He was the first black entertainer that I didn’t look at as being a black person but rather a person. He was able to bring black culture to white people in a completely non-threatening manner that made it palatable (as much as black people may resent that it is good that it happened that way). I think, ironically, he was the first to open up black culture to white people thus making it possible for rap to fall into the mainstream.
I also find it ironic that Cosby makes mention of rap music but doesn’t realize the roots of rap come from jazz. As an avid fan of both types of music I understand why it is easy to criticize them both. When jazz first started to come into the mainstream it wasn’t understood in context of “traditional” western music. There were odd rhythms (swing) that just made boys and girls want to shake “what their momma gave 'em”. It was wild and unpredictable due to its improvisational manner.
Old white people just saw it as sexed-up music and thought for sure the black man was coming for their women and that the youth would become refer addicts – same story as every generation. White people embraced this music and made it their own; just like they did eventually with the blues and rock and roll and now are doing with rap. Music in this country owes much of its content to black culture.
I think many “racial problems” could be solved if we all just got together and smoked a fatty, listened to some good music, and ate a nice home-cooked meal – but I’m easy like that.
[quote]malonetd wrote:
There’s nothing for me to disagree with here, except that many other posters do think it’s existence IS an issue.[/quote]
…and no one confronts them on it. I keep getting several pm’s from people who don’t post saying they notice it as well.
If some of you would actually speak up and tell idiots like Mick28 to shut the fuck up, maybe we could get back to decent discussions around here.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
A white person’s perspective…
As to Cosby’s message I think it is a good one. I think it is a cross cultural message. I wish people in my own family would take it to heart. It essentially comes down to not allowing ourselves to become victims of circumstance; to take responsibility when the situation warrants it and to not be held back by negative things in our past.
I like Cosby. I always have. I remember watching his television shows. He was the first black entertainer that I didn’t look at as being a black person but rather a person. He was able to bring black culture to white people in a completely non-threatening manner that made it palatable (as much as black people may resent that it is good that it happened that way). I think, ironically, he was the first to open up black culture to white people thus making it possible for rap to fall into the mainstream.
I also find it ironic that Cosby makes mention of rap music but doesn’t realize the roots of rap come from jazz. As an avid fan of both types of music I understand why it is easy to criticize them both. When jazz first started to come into the mainstream it wasn’t understood in context of “traditional” western music. There were odd rhythms (swing) that just made boys and girls want to shake “what their momma gave 'em”. It was wild and unpredictable due to its improvisational manner.
Old white people just saw it as sexed-up music and thought for sure the black man was coming for their women and that the youth would become refer addicts – same story as every generation. White people embraced this music and made it their own; just like they did eventually with the blues and rock and roll and now are doing with rap. Music in this country owes much of its content to black culture.
I think many “racial problems” could be solved if we all just got together and smoked a fatty, listened to some good music, and ate a nice home-cooked meal – but I’m easy like that.[/quote]
Good post. That jazz issue is one I am surprised he can’t see himself.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
malonetd wrote:
There’s nothing for me to disagree with here, except that many other posters do think it’s existence IS an issue.
…and no one confronts them on it. I keep getting several pm’s from people who don’t post saying they notice it as well.
If some of you would actually speak up and tell idiots like Mick28 to shut the fuck up, maybe we could get back to decent discussions around here.[/quote]
You are doing a fine job.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
bigflamer wrote:
Professor X wrote:
We have people on this forum who act like the existence of BET is a racist concept
At a very minimum, BET is an exclusionary television channel based solely on skin color. Even if you don’t consider it racist, it’s definitely exclusionary.
…while completely ignoring the fact that before its inception, most tv was strictly “WET”. That didn’t even start to change until after the success of mostly black shows like The Jeffersons and Goodtimes which seemed to cross racial barriers and social consciousness.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but in the 1974-1975 seasons, the Jeffersons, Good Times, and Sanford and Son were all on mainstream television, and were NBC and CBS’s most popular shows. These shows did indeed cross racial barriers and social consciousness, all without BET. Would they have crossed as many barriers as they did if they had been on a channel that was dedicated only to the black community? I think probably not.
I think BET currently is a waste of airspace and I rarely waste my time watching that channel. That doesn’t mean I don’t understand it was needed originally. MTV used to not show black artists when it first aired. Michael Jackson was the FIRST black (funny writing that now) artist they ever showed on air. Things took off from there leading to Rap City and other shows geared towards the audience they had initially ignored. You are right about those shows. You are also wrong if you think that because those shows existed that blacks in general were not fighting for air time and recognition anywhere near equal to that of white actors.
Even today, how rare is it to see a show with a majority black cast without it being labeled a “black show”? Meanwhile, no one even notices that most shows are majority white yet not seen as “white shows”.
[/quote]
Key example of this: The Wire. Hands down the best TV show I’ve ever seen, yet had poor ratings and barely survived on HBO. Was that solely due to the majority black cast and slang? Maybe not. But I think that definitely played a big role.
[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
Key example of this: The Wire. Hands down the best TV show I’ve ever seen, yet had poor ratings and barely survived on HBO. Was that solely due to the majority black cast and slang? Maybe not. But I think that definitely played a big role.[/quote]
That show was like watching a good book acted out on screen. I think you are right as far as the most important reason it didn’t survive, even though the focus wasn’t just on the black actors.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Good post. That jazz issue is one I am surprised he can’t see himself.[/quote]
He does, he simply refuses to acknowledge it…like you mentioned earlier he remembers the past the way he wants to like every other older person yelling at the next generation. Reminds me of my talks with my dad about the good ol’ days.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
Key example of this: The Wire. Hands down the best TV show I’ve ever seen, yet had poor ratings and barely survived on HBO. Was that solely due to the majority black cast and slang? Maybe not. But I think that definitely played a big role.
That show was like watching a good book acted out on screen. I think you are right as far as the most important reason it didn’t survive, even though the focus wasn’t just on the black actors.[/quote]
GREAT show indeed. I still haven’t seen Season 5, my girlfriend is mid-way thru season 4, so I’m waiting for her to catch up – the wait is KILLING me.
Here’s my thought on why its ratings are so low (especially since every other magazine review considers it damn near the equivalent of a classic Greek Tragedy put to screen):
You need to invest time and thought into the show before being rewarded. I had to force my girlfriend to watch the first 6 episodes before it ‘caught’ her. It was the same for me. A buddy of mine just told me 'Look dude, you HAVE to watch this show – give it 6 or 7 episodes and you’ll be hooked. He was right.
There’s a lot going on in The Wire – it’s not like other ‘cops & crime’ shows that lay out a basic plot that is resolved within an hour. It’s much more complex than anything else on TV, including The Sopranos. Additionally, the raw content of the show (drugs, violence, corruption, etc) certainly scares away its share of viewers as well. I don’t think it’s a ‘race’ issue.
As an aside, the original Tom Waits version of the intro song ‘Down In The Hole’ (as played in Season 2) is MILES better than any of the other versions…
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
Should there now be a network just for them?
[/quote]
Who says BET is just for black people?
Who are you to tell consumers what they can or can’t consume?
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
Should there now be a network just for them?
Who says BET is just for black people?
Who are you to tell consumers what they can or can’t consume?
[/quote]
Exactly…I’m glad the majority of posters here have some logic this go around…also I notice that his complaints are ALL about BET. Why is that??
Also,he’d be better off defending Asian people about AZN going off air this month.
P.S. Good posts from you earlier.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
also I notice that his complaints are ALL about BET. Why is that??[/quote]
I think we all know why.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
also I notice that his complaints are ALL about BET. Why is that??
I think we all know why.[/quote]
He is trolling and you guys are feeding him.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
also I notice that his complaints are ALL about BET. Why is that??
I think we all know why.
He is trolling and you guys are feeding him.[/quote]
I’m doing my best to not address him…plus trolls will eat anything. 
[quote]SinisterMinister wrote:
Professor X wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
Key example of this: The Wire. Hands down the best TV show I’ve ever seen, yet had poor ratings and barely survived on HBO. Was that solely due to the majority black cast and slang? Maybe not. But I think that definitely played a big role.
That show was like watching a good book acted out on screen. I think you are right as far as the most important reason it didn’t survive, even though the focus wasn’t just on the black actors.
GREAT show indeed. I still haven’t seen Season 5, my girlfriend is mid-way thru season 4, so I’m waiting for her to catch up – the wait is KILLING me.
Here’s my thought on why its ratings are so low (especially since every other magazine review considers it damn near the equivalent of a classic Greek Tragedy put to screen):
You need to invest time and thought into the show before being rewarded. I had to force my girlfriend to watch the first 6 episodes before it ‘caught’ her. It was the same for me. A buddy of mine just told me 'Look dude, you HAVE to watch this show – give it 6 or 7 episodes and you’ll be hooked. He was right.
There’s a lot going on in The Wire – it’s not like other ‘cops & crime’ shows that lay out a basic plot that is resolved within an hour. It’s much more complex than anything else on TV, including The Sopranos. Additionally, the raw content of the show (drugs, violence, corruption, etc) certainly scares away its share of viewers as well. I don’t think it’s a ‘race’ issue.
As an aside, the original Tom Waits version of the intro song ‘Down In The Hole’ (as played in Season 2) is MILES better than any of the other versions…
[/quote]
I just wanted to chime in and say I love The Wire. I think the reason it is not as popular as it deserves to be is that the character arcs and story lines extend over more than one episode, and more than one season. To have any idea of what’s going on you have to watch at least 5 or 6 consecutive episodes. Anyone who just happens to catch an episode while flipping channels isn’t going to know enough be able to follow the constant action and scene changes, and will probably be intimidated and leave.
Also, the line between good and bad is more ambiguous. The police, the judges, prosecutors and politicians are there to serve the interest of their own careers and egos, which is too ugly a truth for most people who are more comfortable with the clear cut, story book battle between good and evil. In The Wire the greatest evils are apathy and incompetence.
On shows like Law and Order case are open and shut in one episode. The characters may have their own thing going on with their ex-wife and kids on the side for color, but the central story of each episode is focused and self contained. Also, the police and prosecutors are all very competent and noble and focused on serving the cause of justice, which is the opposite of The Wire.
I also think the writing on The Wire has improved with each season. Whereas Deadwood started brilliant but couldn’t sustain that level and kind of mellowed.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Wow. We arrest makers of snuff films because of the people watching them? I thought it was because of the DEATH.[/quote]
I mistyped. Thoughts-to-text didn’t flow. We arrest people for POSSESSION of snuff film and child porn, regardless of the legalities of where the material was created, because of the effect they have.
Simple possession is a crime because it promotes antisocial behaviour.
[quote]It is a PARENT’S responsibility to monitor what their kids watch, not the government’s.
Why are you trying to take the responsibility away from where it belongs?[/quote]
Because the evidence suggests that a large proportion of “parents” are completely incompetent in this regard.
[quote]My parents didn’t allow ANY consecutive music in the house when I was growing up. They were extremely religious back then. They eased up when I was about in the 11th grade. I guess it was clear by then what type of person I was.
Why are you claiming parents today can’t do the same?[/quote]
Do you really believe they can? I’m not so convinced.
If they could, we wouldn’t be having these problems, would we?
ElbowStrike