[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
I think you should give the baby a gender-neutral name so it has every advantage.
[/quote]
I’ll do you one better and give it a species-neutral name. Wild dogs are a serious issue.[/quote]
Do you campaign for or against them? I take them very seriously, too, and want to make sure you’re not a part of the problem and neutralizing all of my solutioning.
[/quote]
I am the final solution.
[quote]csulli wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
I think you should give the baby a gender-neutral name so it has every advantage.
[/quote]
I’ll do you one better and give it a species-neutral name. Wild dogs are a serious issue.[/quote]
Do you campaign for or against them? I take them very seriously, too, and want to make sure you’re not a part of the problem and neutralizing all of my solutioning.
[/quote]
I am the final solution.[/quote]
I’m about this close to to jumping up on these tables, kicking everything off, throwing pencils in the eyes of everybody here, slapping Jonty and csulli, and Uncle Gabby, then me taking Emily’s hand and slapping everyone else’s face. We want to take these books and just light them on fire.
This thread needs some feminist bookstore.
[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
I’m about this close to to jumping up on these tables, kicking everything off, throwing pencils in the eyes of everybody here, slapping Jonty and csulli, and Uncle Gabby, then me taking Emily’s hand and slapping everyone else’s face. We want to take these books and just light them on fire.
[/quote]
Uh oh. The uppity women are getting hysterical in this thread.
[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
This thread needs some feminist bookstore.
That was very funny.
[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
I’m about this close to to jumping up on these tables, kicking everything off, throwing pencils in the eyes of everybody here, slapping Jonty and csulli, and Uncle Gabby, then me taking Emily’s hand and slapping everyone else’s face. We want to take these books and just light them on fire.
[/quote]
You women and your vaginas.
.
Puff:
You did not tell us that you and Em owned a clothing store together.
http://www.ifc.com/portlandia/videos/portlandia-two-girls-two-shirts
[quote]csulli wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
I think you should give the baby a gender-neutral name so it has every advantage.
[/quote]
I’ll do you one better and give it a species-neutral name. Wild dogs are a serious issue.[/quote]
Do you campaign for or against them? I take them very seriously, too, and want to make sure you’re not a part of the problem and neutralizing all of my solutioning.
[/quote]
I am the final solution.[/quote]
That’s my suicide bomber. So proud. :')
It’s the age of the salesman and a world which doesn’t notice. Related wisdom from 30 Rock:
“I always knew I can make a difference. And now I finally have my platform”
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
[quote]csulli wrote:
Gabby I’m curious about the mentality I think I’m seeing here. If you feel affected by a problem, how is it anyone else’s responsibility other than yours to deal with it? Why would Emily or any other woman have some kind of responsibility to “be part of the solution” or campaign against other women with harmful ideas?
If it’s our fucking problem, it’s our fucking job to deal with it. It seems ridiculous to me to expect anyone not directly affected by a problem to help deal with it on your behalf.[/quote]
It’s her movement.
If you self-identified as a member of a political party that advocated segregation, but stated privately “I’m not into the segregation stuff, I joined the party for other issues, segregation ain’t me” I would ask what you are doing to push your party away from that platform. If you answered that you were quietly sitting in the background I would laugh.
[/quote]
Radical feminism is not my movement. When I identify as a feminist I always (ALWAYS) offer an explanation as to its meaning to me. But at this point in time I’m not sure what the alternative would be. I’m not a religious fundamentalist, so what identification should I hold? I’m neither a man-hater nor dependency-seeker. What’s the in-between; the identification of a regular, non-radical, fairly traditional, feminine in personality and dress but not sexualized, working woman?
And why do you insist on identity politics? Haven’t they done enough harm? [/quote]
When did I insist on identity politics? You’ve self identified as a feminist before, that I remember, and it’s obvious that you’re not a Radical. Beyond that this is too much arguing on the internet for me.
[/quote]
Yes, I suppose I have, because when posting somewhere like TN, where there is often justified anger, I want to make sure I don’t misrepresent myself or mislead anyone, and I think it’s important to note that feminism is not, in my view, about revenge against men or unfair advantage.
I don’t know what trigger point I hit with you, but the thing I claimed in this thread is that I do the exact thing the video highlights, which is to expect heroics from men as well as pay parity for jobs. I cheerfully shouldered the label of “asshole” and thanked men generally for being willing to deal with scary things on my behalf.
As for your insistence that I should “push my party away from it” I would ask:
How many hours should decent Christians spend decrying bigotry and intolerance, and where? Jerusalem? Rome? Or is it enough to arrange pulpit time on a Sunday to note that they repudiate the killing of abortionists and harassment of gays? Obviously stating clearly any time it comes up that “I find that a gross misrepresentation of the Church’s teachings” is inadequate.
A local man here was sentenced to 18 months for possessing and broadcasting “thousands of pornographic images and videos of children.” Do you owe something in this matter as a man who benefits from a male-dominated and primarily male-led criminal justice system? Because I’m outraged and sickened by this situation and would like a solution to this problem posthaste.
In winding down let me just say that it’s terribly ironic that you seem angry because I’ve told you that I’m not a zealot nor a fighter and that I exert influence as best I can, but gently. You want me to be an angry and aggressive woman? Strident and combative? And you’re mad that I’m not? Seriously?
[/quote]
I’ve said several times that I’m not mad, and not even 100% serious. You keep reading anger where there is none. I guess I can’t help you with that.
Child Porn guy is going to prison, and from the stories I hear will likely not make it out. As a representative of the patriarchy let me say, you’re welcome. If my brothers allow him to walk out alive, you let me know what prison he was in and I’ll write them an angry letter.
As to the Christian thing, I get what you did there, that is a very clever metaphor. Thanks to you and Dr. P I now feel well educated on the fractured state of feminism, kind of like the fractured state of Protestant Christianity, huh?
[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
[quote]csulli wrote:
Gabby I’m curious about the mentality I think I’m seeing here. If you feel affected by a problem, how is it anyone else’s responsibility other than yours to deal with it? Why would Emily or any other woman have some kind of responsibility to “be part of the solution” or campaign against other women with harmful ideas?
If it’s our fucking problem, it’s our fucking job to deal with it. It seems ridiculous to me to expect anyone not directly affected by a problem to help deal with it on your behalf.[/quote]
It’s her movement.
If you self-identified as a member of a political party that advocated segregation, but stated privately “I’m not into the segregation stuff, I joined the party for other issues, segregation ain’t me” I would ask what you are doing to push your party away from that platform. If you answered that you were quietly sitting in the background I would laugh.
[/quote]
Radical feminism is not my movement. When I identify as a feminist I always (ALWAYS) offer an explanation as to its meaning to me. But at this point in time I’m not sure what the alternative would be. I’m not a religious fundamentalist, so what identification should I hold? I’m neither a man-hater nor dependency-seeker. What’s the in-between; the identification of a regular, non-radical, fairly traditional, feminine in personality and dress but not sexualized, working woman?
And why do you insist on identity politics? Haven’t they done enough harm? [/quote]
When did I insist on identity politics? You’ve self identified as a feminist before, that I remember, and it’s obvious that you’re not a Radical. Beyond that this is too much arguing on the internet for me.
[/quote]
Yes, I suppose I have, because when posting somewhere like TN, where there is often justified anger, I want to make sure I don’t misrepresent myself or mislead anyone, and I think it’s important to note that feminism is not, in my view, about revenge against men or unfair advantage.
I don’t know what trigger point I hit with you, but the thing I claimed in this thread is that I do the exact thing the video highlights, which is to expect heroics from men as well as pay parity for jobs. I cheerfully shouldered the label of “asshole” and thanked men generally for being willing to deal with scary things on my behalf.
As for your insistence that I should “push my party away from it” I would ask:
How many hours should decent Christians spend decrying bigotry and intolerance, and where? Jerusalem? Rome? Or is it enough to arrange pulpit time on a Sunday to note that they repudiate the killing of abortionists and harassment of gays? Obviously stating clearly any time it comes up that “I find that a gross misrepresentation of the Church’s teachings” is inadequate.
A local man here was sentenced to 18 months for possessing and broadcasting “thousands of pornographic images and videos of children.” Do you owe something in this matter as a man who benefits from a male-dominated and primarily male-led criminal justice system? Because I’m outraged and sickened by this situation and would like a solution to this problem posthaste.
In winding down let me just say that it’s terribly ironic that you seem angry because I’ve told you that I’m not a zealot nor a fighter and that I exert influence as best I can, but gently. You want me to be an angry and aggressive woman? Strident and combative? And you’re mad that I’m not? Seriously?
[/quote]
I’ve said several times that I’m not mad, and not even 100% serious. You keep reading anger where there is none. I guess I can’t help you with that.
Child Porn guy is going to prison, and from the stories I hear will likely not make it out. As a representative of the patriarchy let me say, you’re welcome. If my brothers allow him to walk out alive, you let me know what prison he was in and I’ll write them an angry letter.
As to the Christian thing, I get what you did there, that is a very clever metaphor. Thanks to you and Dr. P I now feel well educated on the fractured state of feminism, kind of like the fractured state of Protestant Christianity, huh?
[/quote]
I dunno, Gabs. I noted that I don’t agree with lowered standards and say so aloud in a post and in your first post directly to me you shot back that doesn’t matter. Half joking? Maybe. I answered that earnestly, but not angrily, “This is what I do; what do YOU do?” and then had to defend through something like six more posts of yours explaining the problem I represent to people like you, who are handicapped by your sex or you’d do it yourself. Others questioned your thinking and as far as I can tell it remained consistent until you suddenly decided you were done arguing and stated, essentially, that I’d overreacted to a light half-joke. Ok! Mea culpa. I’ll try not to get all het up again and run off crazy at the mouth proclaiming that I don’t want to start a giant bitter campaign against anyone, but rather prefer to speak respectfully to whomever I encounter.
P.S. I like you and like debating with you generally because you are reasonable and honest, but some sort of button got pushed with the standards thing and your posts were absolutely accusing. I’m sensitive to that because I am willing to take responsibility for things generally and do strive to be “part of the solution.”
[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
This thread needs some feminist bookstore.
Haha, my new favorite video.
That is occasionally my life.
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
This thread needs some feminist bookstore.
Haha, my new favorite video.
That is occasionally my life. [/quote]
Let the haters hate! What you have is amazing, you are very lucky.
I can’t stop watching the feminist bookstore. “I am outraged RIGHT NOW.” lol
I’m pretty sure I did admit that I came off as an asshole, especially in my first response to you, and I’m pretty sure I stated you got angry, but I don’t think I used the term overreacted. I dunno cause I’m too lazy to re-read this thread. You might could find a quote to the contrary and make me look a fool, if you wanted to wade back through this.
Also, being a man, I am handicapped in pushing back, especially if this was going on in my own work place. Career suicide. On that I am 100% serious, but no that’s not your fault or responsibilty. If you were my co-worker I expect you probably would speak up on my behalf, without my asking.
[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
I’m pretty sure I did admit that I came off as an asshole, especially in my first response to you, and I’m pretty sure I stated you got angry, but I don’t think I used the term overreacted. I dunno cause I’m too lazy to re-read this thread. You might could find a quote to the contrary and make me look a fool, if you wanted to wade back through this.
Also, being a man, I am handicapped in pushing back, especially if this was going on in my own work place. Career suicide. On that I am 100% serious, but no that’s not your fault or responsibilty. If you were my co-worker I expect you probably would speak up on my behalf, without my asking.[/quote]
I would say I was frustrated, not angry. Uncertain why you were insisting that I do something that is not in my nature, and also questioning where it ends. Am I part of every problem I don’t actively solve? Are you? I felt that your posts contained hypocrisy, and simply tried to point that out.
Discussing the topic rather than engaging in further argument with you. . . I wonder if even I would be able to fight successfully in a workplace that was driven by feminist agenda. Women like me tend to get the side-eye from strong feminist types because to them I’m part of the problem as well, a la PP’s video. Too girly.
At my E-Nation forum there was a recent all-female debate about “standing up” for oneself that included terms like “timid wimp” and “passive-aggressive asshole.” This was over one of the women having been stunned by having her seat rudely stolen while she was in the bathroom and being upset in retrospect after not having reacted in the moment. We divided into the same two camps we always do; the aggressive women vs the passives.
We women are not a cohesive group. Men keep thinking we are, but we’re not.
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
We women are not a cohesive group. Men keep thinking we are, but we’re not.[/quote]
Filt.
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]csulli wrote:
If it’s our fucking problem, it’s our fucking job to deal with it. It seems ridiculous to me to expect anyone not directly affected by a problem to help deal with it on your behalf.[/quote]
Yeah, thats a kind of limitation women just dont have.
As a man, you will never win in the court of public opinion, “women are wonderful” effect and whatnot, so he only resort you really have is to say “fuck it”.
Let it all burn to the ground, rebuild from scratch. [/quote]
Hockey’s response when I told him about the horrific cat noises and terrifying thumping sounds and that I’d jumped across the room and somehow onto a distant chair, wishing for him:
“Were you naked?”
You’ve got a tough row to hoe, orion! The men are going to prove as difficult to herd as the women have been.[/quote]
I dont want to herd anyone.
In fact, I want them to scatter all over the place.
EmilyQ,
I wanted to address the hypocrit thing. I probably am. I try to do good whenever I see the chance but frankly it usually seems I am pissing in the wind. I sometimes succeed in doing more harm than good.
I’m actually jealous of the foster parent thing. Instead of trying to save the world just save one child, that seems feasible. But I work all the time and probably couldn’t keep a house plant alive.