[quote]Professor X wrote:
Genetics would be a Bell curve. There would be many who are average with fewer who have poor genetics and fewer who ahve great genetics. The point is, if the guy with great genetics approaches this as if he has “average” genetics, he will never reach his potential. You are telling everyone to accept “average”. If I had listened to you, I wouldn’t be above average in size. That is why you don’t tell people to approach training as if they are all average. No one even knows what “average” is. The average person might be able to reach an 18" arm, but they never eat enough because they are afraid of getting fat…or they don’t train long enough or hard enough. If you believe you have limits like that, you won’t ever even try to see if you can reach beyond it.
It is like an elephant at the zoo that they tie a rope to. They place the rope around their leg when they are young to teach them boundaries. When they are older, they can keep them in place with a string…because they believe they can’t break free. It’s a fucking elephant who believes it can’t break free.
Why do you want people to think like that?
[/quote]
You, and others, are reading more into my comments than intended. I am not telling anyone they should “accept” anything. In my opinion, you do the best you can do with the best information you can find and what happens happens.
My point is relative to competing training systems and the original topic of this thread; Look, I can pull ten guys out of the gym and train them westside…those that achieve decent numbers had the genetic potential to do so and, in my opinion, would have succeeded under any number of programs. As illustrated by countless athletes, there are numerous paths/systems to success. However, the guy with average genetics (far more or you than you’d like to believe), will never, no matter what training system, achieve certain accomplishments (at the upper end of the bell curve).
That isn’t a call to “give up”. It’s a point, partially in response to the orginal question; how do these big guys get big when they train so shitty?
The answer is genetics.
Hell, if you want to go further, and I’m sure you’ll find more than one expert coach here to agree with this, that great vitamin S responds better according to your genetics. For example, steroids didn’t change the landscape of track and field in terms of who wins…it never made the 20th best guy in the world number 1. The best guys always responded best to S. So, if all are on it (and 98% at that level are), it doesn’t change who is elite. The top ten will be the top ten if you remove S and will remain the top ten when you put S back into the equation. Well, I think there is enough anectdotal and empirical evidence that irrefutably shows that those with greater genetic potential respond to training better than those with average genetics. Damn bro, think of all the gym rats taking S, eating like a bear and busting their ass in the gym and still do not sport 18" arms or a big bench. Answer? Genetics.
Look, if you’re average, I don’t care how you train…if you’re average and train optimally, I think you are only going to achieve marginally above what you would do with another system. That is my only point and please read the big “if”…“if” you are average.
Now, I agree that we do not yet fully understand what our genetic limitations are - they expand all the time; but there are limits and there are relative comparisons to be made among athletes. If you’ve ever competed at any sport at a high level, you will quickly understand that certain athletes will never be at the top of that bell curve - no matter how they train. Well, large amounts of lean mass, high strength levels, top sprinting ability, heck those are the top of the bell curve. Most people will never achieve it; doesn’t mean I imply you don’t try. You don’t know what your limits are until you put your years in.
If it were as achievable as many of you would like to imply, our gyms would be populated by stronger/bigger guys. Do you REALLY believe the only reason most of these guys aren’t “huge” or strong is b/c they are training wrong? C’mon bro.
And one more thing; when I say “average”…I’m not comparing you to the couch potato that doesn’t train or the person described by men’s health; I’m talking the average gym trainee with decent dedication and a decent program.
The way some of you are arguing, there is a Dave Tate, Carl Lewis, et als. lurking in each of us…Nonsense fellas.
Anyway, that is my convoluted point; there is no easy answer, but I know I have a point there somewhere 
lol.
Steve