[quote]ElevenMag wrote:
At one point I could one rep max 550…
[/quote]
LOL
[quote]ElevenMag wrote:
I have found that if your on the taller side (6’2") regular old back squat gives you turnip thighs. All the meat is in the upper portion near the hip with little down near the knee. At one point I could one rep max 550 and my legs looked big but unimpressive due to this.
After going to front squats, sissy squats, and 60 degree hack squat machine I have managed to develop that lower portion with puny weights compared to my previous maxes in HS football on the back squat[/quote]
I agree with this. However, the initial post was regarding a big BODY without weights, not just legs… Squats and deads are full body exercises that load the entire musculoskeletal structure with a heavy weight, giving an overall growth stimulus. Hack squats (bb, machine, whatever) do more for the tear drop, while bb back squats put pounds on the scale.
leg extensions for tear drops lol
[quote]cubuff2028 wrote:
- my buddy developed huge legs playing catcher in the rockies organization (minor league). Even though he doesn’t play anymore, his legs maintain with minimal work. [/quote]
Funny you mention that, I played catcher for 11 years. And when I was younger (I’m talking 10-11 years of age) I would spend all commerical break (when watching TV) in a catcher position… I reasoned that it would make me stronger in that position (yep, even at a young age I was thinking training!) and it might be one of the reasons why my legs grew easily.
[quote]Swolle wrote:
You may find that many times these arent done for a few reasons… first and foremost for a bodybuilder many simply calculate the risk reward… I squatted heavy for years. I made my best gains where my legs were concerned doing othere exercises. I still front squat a lot but it is just safer for my low back and its not my staple leg exercise. Second there have been some excellent pro bodybuilders who dont utilize them in their training at all (monkey see monkey do)… The above applies to squats… As for deadlifts much of that same applies and lets face it they just arent a staple movement for a lot of people. I do them I have also forcefully removed my bicep from my ulna in a not so pleasent experience. I think those of you who say they dont do them because they are hard are probably severel thing 1) Have never squatted the amounts that many Pros have early in their careers and 2) trying to say that because you do somehow there is no other way. Remember youre in the bodybuildig section. Great bodies do not need to be built with squats and deads. Its a fact… If you love these movements fine but they arent the be all end all that every pimple face teenager would believe.
[/quote]
I agree with this. However, I don’t think that most people that in the local gym are in this category. I didn’t start deadlifting until I was almost 23, and I did mostly smith machine squats until about the same age. Why? Not because squats and deads didn’t work for me, but because they were hard exercises that work difficult to perform. I think most lifters at the gym are in this category. I think most here would agree that you don’t need bench press to have a big chest, but you don’t see young guys staying away from that exercise. Not because it works great for them but because they like it.
And to agree with your point again, I had a pretty decent build at 23 without barbell back squatting and deadlifting… And now, four years after starting, I do them not because they work great for me necessarily, but because I like them.
[quote]ElevenMag wrote:
…my previous maxes in HS football on the back squat…[/quote]
Are you capable of writing a post that doesn’t refer to High School football lifting accomplishments?
[quote]cubuff2028 wrote:
[quote]DSSG wrote:
Let’s move onto tall lifters. Why do tall lifters bitch about the squat so much? I am longer limbed for my height (from what I have been told for years) and find no issues in squatting other than it has less advantageous leverages compared to deadlifting. There is no issues hitting depth, and no issues with my quads working if I want them to. [/quote]
pride.
if you spend all day at 24hr fitness (the most general cross section of the weight training population), you probably will not see a single good repetition on the squat, bench press, or chin bar. Guys care more about DEMONSTRATING their strength (or lack thereof) to others or even to themselves more so than they do improving.
pride.
A tall guy is used to winning on the field, in the ring, etc, but really hates to be seen squatting a light barbell to depth. He will then use all the mental gymnastics at his disposal to convince himself as to why he doesn’t need (or can’t) to squat to depth or even squat at all. This is too bad because we all know that whatever you suck at will help your physique and performance the most.
as Marcellus Wallace put it, “you might feel a slight sting. That’s pride fuckin’ with you. Fuck pride! Pride only hurts, it never helps. You fight through that shit.”[/quote]
I don’t think it’s just height but ratio of femur to torso. If you have unusually long legs, it forces you to lean farther forward. Someone with proportionately shorter legs can squat more upright and therefore keep a better arch in their spine.
[quote]yolo84 wrote:
[quote]alternate wrote:
The only way you could tell if squats are better than other exercises for leg development for a given genetic potential is if you took two identical twins, fed them the same diet, gave them the same job, gave them the same workout except one was using different types of squats and the other was using different types of split squats/leg presses/lunges - kept them on this workout for years, and then recorded the difference in lower body muscle mass.
No-one has ever done this study, so no-one is sure. Yet everyone claims to have a definite opinion one way or another (usually in favor of squats).[/quote]
your posts are always shit. [/quote]
Whereas your posts are always full of infinite wisdom.
Like this one.
[quote]DSSG wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]DSSG wrote:
Let’s move onto tall lifters. Why do tall lifters bitch about the squat so much? I am longer limbed for my height (from what I have been told for years) and find no issues in squatting other than it has less advantageous leverages compared to deadlifting. There is no issues hitting depth, and no issues with my quads working if I want them to. [/quote]
There is also total distance moved meaning you put more energy which could be used elsewhere. Regardless of limb length a taller person moves the bar a longer distance.[/quote]
… From the 6’5" guy… But wouldn’t the same limb length equal out to the same distance moved, and taller guys can be much heavier which assists absolute strength? Wouldn’t the 6 feet tall guy with thirty six inch long legs be at a disadvantage from the 6.5 feet person with equal limb length but greater torso and has much more total mass which would be bigger/better base?
Taller lifters also pull from a longer distance, but are said to have better pulls, and most are with proportions ideal for pulling but terrible for squatting and benching (which I have).
I think I’m going to agree with cueball that it is mostly just ego and excuses for the squat. [/quote]
I don’t know the exact details but I was mostly referring to someone 6’5" with long limbs and small torso even for their height. Same proportions a tall person moves it a greater distance, can’t really argue against that.
[quote]cubuff2028 wrote:
[quote]ElevenMag wrote:
I have found that if your on the taller side (6’2") regular old back squat gives you turnip thighs. All the meat is in the upper portion near the hip with little down near the knee. At one point I could one rep max 550 and my legs looked big but unimpressive due to this.
After going to front squats, sissy squats, and 60 degree hack squat machine I have managed to develop that lower portion with puny weights compared to my previous maxes in HS football on the back squat[/quote]
I agree with this. However, the initial post was regarding a big BODY without weights, not just legs… Squats and deads are full body exercises that load the entire musculoskeletal structure with a heavy weight, giving an overall growth stimulus. Hack squats (bb, machine, whatever) do more for the tear drop, while bb back squats put pounds on the scale. [/quote]
The original post was why big guys at the gym are never seen squatting or deadlifting. I was stating how these exercises are basically a hip hinge where all the power comes from the hips and glutes (especially back squats). If you think a large squat is going to equal impressive looking legs which is what any bodybuilders goal is your going to be sorry for wasting you time once you get there unless you are a sergio olivia look alike. I get they are full body and are a good way to add pounds to the scale but as a bodybuilder you must be more foremost concerned where the pounds are added
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
[quote]ElevenMag wrote:
…my previous maxes in HS football on the back squat…[/quote]
Are you capable of writing a post that doesn’t refer to High School football lifting accomplishments?[/quote]
Squats are a hip movement first and foremost. Not a big leg movement
I’ve already proven I know how to back squat large weights with good form and when you called me out last time I bit and showed you. Shut up already, 550 is pretty good but not unbelievably impressive in the least, especially considering I was about 240 lbs at the time. The reference was only used since i can personally attest to the fact a large back squat (one of the NECESSARY BIG THREE!?!?) doesn’t really mean anything when it comes to leg shape balance and size.
I was able to squat more than double my BW for reps and still doesn’t have great leg shape. Wide up top but not much sweep or tear drop.
Lame 
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]cubuff2028 wrote:
- my buddy developed huge legs playing catcher in the rockies organization (minor league). Even though he doesn’t play anymore, his legs maintain with minimal work. [/quote]
Funny you mention that, I played catcher for 11 years. And when I was younger (I’m talking 10-11 years of age) I would spend all commerical break (when watching TV) in a catcher position… I reasoned that it would make me stronger in that position (yep, even at a young age I was thinking training!) and it might be one of the reasons why my legs grew easily.[/quote]
hahaha that makes sense. Do you still have one hand that is noticeably thicker than the other? Fascial increase due to the repetitive impact? (guess)
[quote]gregron wrote:
I was able to squat more than double my BW for reps and still doesn’t have great leg shape. Wide up top but not much sweep or tear drop.
Lame :([/quote]
dat feel.
[quote]ElevenMag wrote:
Squats are a hip movement first and foremost. Not a big leg movement
…a large back squat doesn’t really mean anything when it comes to leg shape balance and size.[/quote]
Method of execution makes a big difference here…I don’t think anybody is claiming that squatting alone builds big wheels, presses, extensions, curls, etc. are required. Even if one concedes that the ‘hinge’ focuses the work on the hip, lumbar, and glutes, that region of the body is judged too. I understand a lifter that doesn’t use the squat as their primary movement; but the logic of not squatting at all is lost to me.
As someone who enjoys back squatting, would the more experienced lifters recommend moving to a front squat?
I have a similar issue to the above poster, ‘big’ ass and upper legs, but my tear and sweep are lacking.
[quote]DSSG wrote:
Let’s move onto tall lifters. Why do tall lifters bitch about the squat so much? I am longer limbed for my height (from what I have been told for years) and find no issues in squatting other than it has less advantageous leverages compared to deadlifting. There is no issues hitting depth, and no issues with my quads working if I want them to. [/quote]
Hilarious post. The movement fits your particular frame/leverages pretty naturally and because you also happen to be tall, you conclude that other tall individuals should stop bitching because of course, its a fairly natural movement… for you.
ANYWAY, taller lifters that do have problems with back squats eventually learn to improve flexibility/posture, front squat, utilize trap/hex bar, and so on, the possibilities are endless so long as one is determined.
And interestingly enough, squatting-type movements often end up strengthening one’s determination as well, as FattyFat and others have mentioned. Go figure.
[quote]chillain wrote:
[quote]DSSG wrote:
Let’s move onto tall lifters. Why do tall lifters bitch about the squat so much? I am longer limbed for my height (from what I have been told for years) and find no issues in squatting other than it has less advantageous leverages compared to deadlifting. There is no issues hitting depth, and no issues with my quads working if I want them to. [/quote]
Hilarious post. The movement fits your particular frame/leverages pretty naturally and because you also happen to be tall, you conclude that other tall individuals should stop bitching because of course, its a fairly natural movement… for you.
ANYWAY, taller lifters that do have problems with back squats eventually learn to improve flexibility/posture, front squat, utilize trap/hex bar, and so on, the possibilities are endless so long as one is determined.
And interestingly enough, squatting-type movements often end up strengthening one’s determination as well, as FattyFat and others have mentioned. Go figure.
[/quote]
To be honest, I don’t think being tall changes much of anything with the squat, regardless of leverages. I have seen way too many tall people with different limb lengths squat effectively, and they are ranging anywhere from 6’2" to 6’8". Ihor Shymechko, Velichko Cholakov, Behdad Salimi, and so on…
5:05
and of course Koklyaev
TBH something that we need to consider here is the psychological aspect:
Most gym rats are afraid to squat properly since there is a risk like no other leg exercise. Leg extensions? Just stop when you’re exhausted. Leg Press? Use your hands to push the weight up if exhausted. Squats? You have to dump it.
Most people never learn to dump the weight properly, and even if they do they’re afraid of making a bunch of noise. Now I don’t really care but I know this was a subconscious thought process for me for a long time.
I also think this is why OLY gyms produce the best squatters; they are trained to throw around weights and not give a damn about being “noisy”, so when the time come that they have to push themselves on squats they either make the lift or dump it - it’s a low risk high reward for them psychologically. For a gym rat it’s get another rep or be embarrassed and potentially get injured - High risk low reward.