Bible Contradictions

pat · January 18, 2011, 3:41am

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
<<< And, what is that core. [/quote]
Blacksheep wrote this a while back in the Trinity thread:

[quote]I John 1:3

“That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.”

“Fellowship” (Gk. koinonia) literally means “having in common” and involves sharing and participation. Christians have fellowship because they have a common faith (Titus 1:4; Jude 3), common grace of God in Christ (I Cor. 1:9; Phil. 1:7), common indwelling of the Spirit (John 20:22; Rom. 8:9-11), common gifts of the Spirit (Rom. 15:27), and a common enemy (I John 2:15-18; I Pet. 5:8). There can be no true fellowship with those who reject the teaching of N.T. faith.

II John 7-11

“For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him good speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.”

John warns that many deceivers and false teachers are perverting God’s Word and attempting to persuade Christians to accept their views. Christians should be aware of being indoctrinated by cultists. Their false teaching concerns the person of Jesus Christ. They deny that Jesus Christ was the eternal and only begotten Son of God, born of the virgin (Matt. 1:18; Luke 1:27), whose blood provides forgiveness for the sins of all who believe (I John 2:2; 4:9-10) and who is “the true God, and eternal life” (I John 5:20).

Galatians 1:9

“As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.”

The word “accursed” (Gk. anathema) means that one lies under the curse of God, is doomed to destruction, and will receive God’s wrath and damnation. (1) The apostle Paul reveals the Holy Spirit’s inspired attitude of judgment and indignation toward those who attempt to distort the original gospel of Christ (Gal. 1:7) and to change the truth of apostolic witness. This same attitude was evident in Jesus Christ (Matt. 23:13), Peter (II Pet. 2), John (II John 7-11), and Jude (Jude 3-4, 12-19), and will be found in the heart of every follower of Christ who loves the gospel of Christ as revealed in God’s Word and who believes that it is the indispensable good news of salvation for a world lost in sin (Rom. 10:14-15)

(2) Accursed are all those who preach a gospel contrary to the message that Paul preached, as revealed to him by Christ (Gal. 1:6, 11-12). Anyone adding to or taking away from the original and fundamental gospel of Christ and the apostles stands under the curse of God; “God shall take away his part out of the book of life” (Rev. 22:18-19).

(3) God commands believers to defend the faith (Jude 3), to correct in love (II Tim. 2:25-26), and to separate themselves from teachers, ministers, and others in the church who deny fundamental Bible truths taught by Jesus and the apostles (Gal. 1:8-9; Rom. 16: 17-18; II Cor. 6:17). These truths include:

(a) The deity of Christ and His virgin birth Matt. 1:23; John 20:28);
(b) The full inspiration and authority of God’s Word in all it teaches (II Tim. 3:16-17);
(c) The historicity of the fall of Adam (Rom. 5:12-19);
(d) The inherent corruption of human nature (Gen. 6:5; 8:21; Rom. 1:21-32; 3:10-18; 7:14, 21);
(e) The lostness of mankind without Christ (Acts 4:12; Rom. 1:16-32; 10:13-15);
(f) Salvation by faith in Christ as Lord and Saviour through His death and blood atonement (Rom. 3:24-25; 5:10);
(g) The bodily resurrection of Christ (Matt. 28:6; I Cor. 10:1);
(h) The historical reality of miracles in both the O.T. and N.T. (I Cor. 10:1);
(i) The reality of Satan and demons as spiritual beings (Matt. 4:1; 8:28; II Cor. 4:4; Eph. 2:2; 6:11-18; I Pet. 5:8);
(j) The Biblical teaching about hell (Mat. 10:28);
(k) The literal return of Jesus Christ to earth (John 14:3; Acts 1:11; ! Cor. 1:7).

Any teachings, doctrines, or ideas originating from persons, churches, or traditions and not expressed or implied in God’s Word, may not be included in the gospel of Christ (Gal. 1:11). To mix them with the original content of the gospel is to "pervert the gospel of Christ (Gal. 1:7). [/quote][/quote]

So…the Jews and the Muslims are out? And I don’t agree with saved by the fiducial faith alone. I mean I am sure you can be saved, but that is not the be all end all of faith. Catholicism is which is theological faith.[/quote]

Of course, like anybody else, they are saved by their own actions and their own heart. Christ will judge them and through him they can be saved. If by their heart they follow the tenets of faith even if they are unknown to them can be saved by Christ’s just and merciful judgment. Believing the wrong thing doesn’t necessarily damn you, doing the wrong thing unrepentantly is…

RyuuKyuzo · January 18, 2011, 3:58am

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html

/thread

[/quote]

So, I google “answers to contradictions” or some such site and POOF like magic all of the perceived contradictions are gone.

Internet debates are fun huh? The ones you don’t have are even more fun.
[/quote]

Yeah, those suppossed answers are little more than dancing around semantics.[/quote]

That is YOUR perception of the answers. To most people, including the 100’s of thousands of well educated Bible scholars for over 2000 years those answers are pretty darn good.

I have a better question for you. Why did God make a male’s testicles (the most sensitive part of a mans body) to hang outside, in front (not less) of his body?

[/quote]

Wait… you mean the very persons who have everything to gain from having millions of Christians throw their money at them for a sense of meaning actually APROVE of their own answers they give to keep their own psychotic illusions going? Wow, such strong testimony…
[/quote]

You probably mean the Catholic Church I am sure of, but then you would mean the biggest non-profit organization in the world and the biggest benefactor of the poor, tired, hungry, sick, homeless, &c. in the entire world? Oh…okay.[/quote]

The Catholic church is “non-profit”? Sheesh, just imagine what they could do if they were for profit! [/quote]

I don’t know, make the gap between the first and second biggest benefactor to society even wider. And, I’m not sure how making it a for profit organization would make a difference, we’d still not make a profit.[/quote]

I’m saying the proponants of the Catholic church have been laughing all the way to the bank for hundreds of years. Whether you call it for profit or not doesn’t change the fact that these men of the cloth have everything to gain from spreading Christianity, so the fact they they support their own theories doesn’t mean much. [/quote]

Laughing to the bank? You do know that most priests live in poverty right…they own nothing? And, the “proponents” of the Catholic Church are still the largest, biggest, mightiest, whatever you want to call it, benefactors to society, specifically to the poor, sick, homeless, tired, orphans, widows, &c. And, the “bank” is not really “full.” So, unless you got some great information you’d like to divulge to the rest of the world, please stop with the false claims.[/quote]

Most preists live in poverty? They make money simply by spreading Christianity. They offer nothing to society economically. They’re essentially earning an extra 15-30k a year simply preaching their ideology and the higher up the latter you go, the more you earn, practically to the point where your entire life is a free ride economically speaking.

This wouldn’t be such a problem if your ideology was true, but as of right now I’ve shown a very major plot whole in your holy novel and none of you seem to have the courage to address it. How do you account for all these contradictions relative to the life of Jesus within the bible?

Tiribulus · January 18, 2011, 4:06am

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
<<< I’m saying the proponants of the Catholic church have been laughing all the way to the bank for hundreds of years. Whether you call it for profit or not doesn’t change the fact that these men of the cloth have everything to gain from spreading Christianity, so the fact they they support their own theories doesn’t mean much. [/quote]Laughing to the bank? You do know that most priests live in poverty right…they own nothing? And, the “proponents” of the Catholic Church are still the largest, biggest, mightiest, whatever you want to call it, benefactors to society, specifically to the poor, sick, homeless, tired, orphans, widows, &c. And, the “bank” is not really “full.” So, unless you got some great information you’d like to divulge to the rest of the world, please stop with the false claims.[/quote]Don’t you understand that by it’s very existence the vatican is a stumbling block and a reproach to the name of Christ. I’m sure this guy will have no problem railing on me as well, but I haven’t handed him an additional humongous weapon like you have. He’ll get around to it. You just wait n see.

Brother_Chris · January 18, 2011, 6:27am

@RyuuKyuzo

Have you ever even known a priest, bishop, archbishop, or cardinal? It doesn’t sound like you have.

They offer nothing to society economically? Really, what about all the charity they do for the needy every day…for no compensation from those they help?

Yes, priests in AMERICA make 15k-30k, but it is not all cash in hand, and that is not the average. They get a car allowance (maybe), education allowance, food allowance and that is about it, the rest of their income derives from housing and insurance and other requirements the diocese or parish is supposed to pay for. The average though is on the low side, about 18,000.

However, out of the 41,000 priests in American, about half of those are religious order priests, and outside of America more of the priests are in religious-orders than are diocese priests. Religious orders have a vow of poverty, they do not have a bank account, they do not own anything, &c.

And, they don’t “simply” preach. I lived with a religious-order priest and a diocese priest for awhile. They keep long hours, some I know only sleep a few hours a night, then they take care of soup kitchens, orphanages, schools, council people, comfort the dying and the sick, bury the dead, help communities stay strong, help civilize communities, &c. If you think all that priests do is “preach” maybe you should actually get to know one. The priests in the religious-orders do all that for no salary, no money in hand at all.

Well, if you think being a priest is a “free-ride,” maybe you should ask a monastery or a diocese priest if you can do a ride-a-long for a day to see how much of an “free-ride” being a priest is.

To your second paragraph…I’m not sure what you’re talking about can you give me a link, because as I’ll remind everyone here…a thousand questions don’t equal a doubt.

Brother_Chris · January 18, 2011, 6:34am

@Tirib

Admit it, you would leave Peter because of Judas.

RyuuKyuzo · January 18, 2011, 6:47am

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
@RyuuKyuzo

Have you ever even known a priest, bishop, archbishop, or cardinal? It doesn’t sound like you have.

They offer nothing to society economically? Really, what about all the charity they do for the needy every day…for no compensation from those they help?

Yes, priests in AMERICA make 15k-30k, but it is not all cash in hand, and that is not the average. They get a car allowance (maybe), education allowance, food allowance and that is about it, the rest of their income derives from housing and insurance and other requirements the diocese or parish is supposed to pay for. The average though is on the low side, about 18,000.

However, out of the 41,000 priests in American, about half of those are religious order priests, and outside of America more of the priests are in religious-orders than are diocese priests. Religious orders have a vow of poverty, they do not have a bank account, they do not own anything, &c.

And, they don’t “simply” preach. I lived with a religious-order priest and a diocese priest for awhile. They keep long hours, some I know only sleep a few hours a night, then they take care of soup kitchens, orphanages, schools, council people, comfort the dying and the sick, bury the dead, help communities stay strong, help civilize communities, &c. If you think all that priests do is “preach” maybe you should actually get to know one. The priests in the religious-orders do all that for no salary, no money in hand at all.

Well, if you think being a priest is a “free-ride,” maybe you should ask a monastery or a diocese priest if you can do a ride-a-long for a day to see how much of an “free-ride” being a priest is.

To your second paragraph…I’m not sure what you’re talking about can you give me a link, because as I’ll remind everyone here…a thousand questions don’t equal a doubt.[/quote]

Actually, the number I listed is cash in hand. The tax breaks and car allowance comes on top of that. I’m not going to argue with you about how hard they work at being a preist because ultimately work ethic is a wash and my point is they make a living pandering with this fantastic and non-sensical fiction novel. This is essentially all they have, they’ve spent their whole lives on it. Hell, the ones sworn to poverty have even more at risk than the wealthy preists do because if their religion is shown to be false then all their self-inflicted suffering will be for nothing and they have nothing to fall back on. This isn’t an argument FOR the strength of testimony by preists for priests. It’s just the opposite.

As for my second paragraph, I’m talking about the video I posted one page back. You can’t miss it. I look forward to your response to it.

ZEB · January 18, 2011, 2:33pm

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

Wait… you mean the very persons who have everything to gain from having millions of Christians throw their money at them for a sense of meaning actually APROVE of their own answers they give to keep their own psychotic illusions going? Wow, such strong testimony.[/quote]

Oh I don’t know about that -There have been a lot of bright people both with something to gain and with nothing to gain looking closely at the scriptures and coming to the same conclusions. And it also works the other way as well. many famous detractors and atheists are selling books/CD’s/DVD’s and doing seminars. If one side is being accused of intellectual dishonesty I think it’s only fair to look at the other side as well. The scriptures speak for themselves. They’ve survived a lot of stone throwing from others just like you and here we are in 2011 and they’re still there.

Wow, and you totally ignored my question about the testicles. And also what’s up with the appendix? It’s either needed or it isn’t. If it isn’t needed why is it there? And I’m not all that happy about little toes as long as we’re on the topic of how we are created. Why is it every time I get up in the middle of the night to get a drink of water I stub that little toe? Why not the big toe it can take it far better than the little one. Okay, someone stop me before I get into why hair has to fall out—I don’t know…

I apologize for engaging you to begin with. I’m not the guy that is going to defend God to someone who neither knows him nor wants to know him. I’ve done this gig with atheists before (right here on T Nation) and found that regardless of any evidence which I may bring to the debate it is never good enough. It really does come down to faith. I will never be able to prove the existence of God. That’s why the Bible talks about faith as being so important. I know, you don’t accept this. But that is the finest and best answer that I can give you. Foreskins, belly buttons, testicles and appendixes aside, what’s the point? We go back and forth for 20 pages and then what? I have not changed my mind and you probably won’t change yours either - I’d rather fight about politics IF I felt like fighting. God? Well, I’ll leave you to him, just the two of you.

There are a myriad of things that you and I don’t know. Those who pretend to know everything will most likely be the most upset when all is said and done.

Until then if you are bitter about life try not to be (some atheists are some are not). Things have a way of turning around if you trudge on and keep the faith…err in your case there is no faith to keep so just keep trudging.

All the best,

Zeb

PS- You should try baiting Trib with some of this stuff he might bite. If not him try Brother Chris he’s always game. But me…I’m sick of it.[/quote]

What is all this? There’s no need to ramble so much, if you no longer wish to engage, that’s fine. I’m not going to “shame” you to death. [/quote]

I really never wanted to “engage” I just wanted to point out that whatever you post from whichever website you find can be shot down by other equally good sites. So once again it’s what each chooses to believe.
[/quote]

If I chose to believe the Earth was flat, would it be true just because I can find a website that supports such a position? [/quote]

No but if you choose to believe that there is no God there are hundreds of web sites that will give you all kinds of information very much refutable by the hundreds of Christian web sites. Like I’ve been saying it’s all about faith. You either have it or you don’t. Basing spirituality on scientific proof is like basing science on faith. The two are completely different and not to be compared.
[/quote]

I’ve started going into the specifics of these problems (jesus timeline). You’re welcome to join in anytime.[/quote]

Like I haven’t had this debate many times before on this very site? (eye roll) Have fun and remember what I said about faith.

Tiribulus · January 18, 2011, 9:55pm

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
@Tirib

Admit it, you would leave Peter because of Judas.[/quote]Please see my post in the Catholic Q&A thread. Also, I am not of Paul or Apollos, or Barnabas OR Peter.

forbes · January 18, 2011, 4:52pm

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
@Tirib

Admit it, you would leave Peter because of Judas.[/quote]Please my post in the Catholic Q&A thread. Also, I am not of Paul or Apollos, or Barnabas OR Peter.
[/quote]

Why then, good sir, if you are not from any of these people, who are you from???

Elijah?

Moses?

Habakuk?

I can’t possibly think of anyone else

RyuuKyuzo · January 18, 2011, 6:17pm

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

Wait… you mean the very persons who have everything to gain from having millions of Christians throw their money at them for a sense of meaning actually APROVE of their own answers they give to keep their own psychotic illusions going? Wow, such strong testimony.[/quote]

Oh I don’t know about that -There have been a lot of bright people both with something to gain and with nothing to gain looking closely at the scriptures and coming to the same conclusions. And it also works the other way as well. many famous detractors and atheists are selling books/CD’s/DVD’s and doing seminars. If one side is being accused of intellectual dishonesty I think it’s only fair to look at the other side as well. The scriptures speak for themselves. They’ve survived a lot of stone throwing from others just like you and here we are in 2011 and they’re still there.

Wow, and you totally ignored my question about the testicles. And also what’s up with the appendix? It’s either needed or it isn’t. If it isn’t needed why is it there? And I’m not all that happy about little toes as long as we’re on the topic of how we are created. Why is it every time I get up in the middle of the night to get a drink of water I stub that little toe? Why not the big toe it can take it far better than the little one. Okay, someone stop me before I get into why hair has to fall out—I don’t know…

I apologize for engaging you to begin with. I’m not the guy that is going to defend God to someone who neither knows him nor wants to know him. I’ve done this gig with atheists before (right here on T Nation) and found that regardless of any evidence which I may bring to the debate it is never good enough. It really does come down to faith. I will never be able to prove the existence of God. That’s why the Bible talks about faith as being so important. I know, you don’t accept this. But that is the finest and best answer that I can give you. Foreskins, belly buttons, testicles and appendixes aside, what’s the point? We go back and forth for 20 pages and then what? I have not changed my mind and you probably won’t change yours either - I’d rather fight about politics IF I felt like fighting. God? Well, I’ll leave you to him, just the two of you.

There are a myriad of things that you and I don’t know. Those who pretend to know everything will most likely be the most upset when all is said and done.

Until then if you are bitter about life try not to be (some atheists are some are not). Things have a way of turning around if you trudge on and keep the faith…err in your case there is no faith to keep so just keep trudging.

All the best,

Zeb

PS- You should try baiting Trib with some of this stuff he might bite. If not him try Brother Chris he’s always game. But me…I’m sick of it.[/quote]

What is all this? There’s no need to ramble so much, if you no longer wish to engage, that’s fine. I’m not going to “shame” you to death. [/quote]

I really never wanted to “engage” I just wanted to point out that whatever you post from whichever website you find can be shot down by other equally good sites. So once again it’s what each chooses to believe.
[/quote]

If I chose to believe the Earth was flat, would it be true just because I can find a website that supports such a position? [/quote]

No but if you choose to believe that there is no God there are hundreds of web sites that will give you all kinds of information very much refutable by the hundreds of Christian web sites. Like I’ve been saying it’s all about faith. You either have it or you don’t. Basing spirituality on scientific proof is like basing science on faith. The two are completely different and not to be compared.
[/quote]

I’ve started going into the specifics of these problems (jesus timeline). You’re welcome to join in anytime.[/quote]

Like I haven’t had this debate many times before on this very site? (eye roll) Have fun and remember what I said about faith.
[/quote]

I HIGHLY doubt you’ve solved this issue before because it hasn’t been done and it can’t be done.

ZEB · January 18, 2011, 6:44pm

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

Wait… you mean the very persons who have everything to gain from having millions of Christians throw their money at them for a sense of meaning actually APROVE of their own answers they give to keep their own psychotic illusions going? Wow, such strong testimony.[/quote]

Oh I don’t know about that -There have been a lot of bright people both with something to gain and with nothing to gain looking closely at the scriptures and coming to the same conclusions. And it also works the other way as well. many famous detractors and atheists are selling books/CD’s/DVD’s and doing seminars. If one side is being accused of intellectual dishonesty I think it’s only fair to look at the other side as well. The scriptures speak for themselves. They’ve survived a lot of stone throwing from others just like you and here we are in 2011 and they’re still there.

Wow, and you totally ignored my question about the testicles. And also what’s up with the appendix? It’s either needed or it isn’t. If it isn’t needed why is it there? And I’m not all that happy about little toes as long as we’re on the topic of how we are created. Why is it every time I get up in the middle of the night to get a drink of water I stub that little toe? Why not the big toe it can take it far better than the little one. Okay, someone stop me before I get into why hair has to fall out—I don’t know…

I apologize for engaging you to begin with. I’m not the guy that is going to defend God to someone who neither knows him nor wants to know him. I’ve done this gig with atheists before (right here on T Nation) and found that regardless of any evidence which I may bring to the debate it is never good enough. It really does come down to faith. I will never be able to prove the existence of God. That’s why the Bible talks about faith as being so important. I know, you don’t accept this. But that is the finest and best answer that I can give you. Foreskins, belly buttons, testicles and appendixes aside, what’s the point? We go back and forth for 20 pages and then what? I have not changed my mind and you probably won’t change yours either - I’d rather fight about politics IF I felt like fighting. God? Well, I’ll leave you to him, just the two of you.

There are a myriad of things that you and I don’t know. Those who pretend to know everything will most likely be the most upset when all is said and done.

Until then if you are bitter about life try not to be (some atheists are some are not). Things have a way of turning around if you trudge on and keep the faith…err in your case there is no faith to keep so just keep trudging.

All the best,

Zeb

PS- You should try baiting Trib with some of this stuff he might bite. If not him try Brother Chris he’s always game. But me…I’m sick of it.[/quote]

What is all this? There’s no need to ramble so much, if you no longer wish to engage, that’s fine. I’m not going to “shame” you to death. [/quote]

I really never wanted to “engage” I just wanted to point out that whatever you post from whichever website you find can be shot down by other equally good sites. So once again it’s what each chooses to believe.
[/quote]

If I chose to believe the Earth was flat, would it be true just because I can find a website that supports such a position? [/quote]

No but if you choose to believe that there is no God there are hundreds of web sites that will give you all kinds of information very much refutable by the hundreds of Christian web sites. Like I’ve been saying it’s all about faith. You either have it or you don’t. Basing spirituality on scientific proof is like basing science on faith. The two are completely different and not to be compared.
[/quote]

I’ve started going into the specifics of these problems (jesus timeline). You’re welcome to join in anytime.[/quote]

Like I haven’t had this debate many times before on this very site? (eye roll) Have fun and remember what I said about faith.
[/quote]

I HIGHLY doubt you’ve solved this issue before because it hasn’t been done and it can’t be done. [/quote]

Yes, I know you are a brand new atheist with a burning agenda to bring the truth to T Nation. And you’ve chosen this never ever, ever before seen topic. We are so very blessed err sorry. We’re so very lucky to have you as part of this board. I can’t speak for the other Christians on the board but I am personally awe struck by your question and it’s complete originality.

LOL…don’t flatter yourself. Look, type in to the old T Nation search engine various Christian/ Atheist title debates. You would be shocked as to what we’ve talked to death around here regarding this and many other similar topics.

Brother_Chris · January 18, 2011, 10:29pm