Bible Contradictions

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
<<< And, what is that core. [/quote]
Blacksheep wrote this a while back in the Trinity thread:

[quote]I John 1:3

“That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.”

“Fellowship” (Gk. koinonia) literally means “having in common” and involves sharing and participation. Christians have fellowship because they have a common faith (Titus 1:4; Jude 3), common grace of God in Christ (I Cor. 1:9; Phil. 1:7), common indwelling of the Spirit (John 20:22; Rom. 8:9-11), common gifts of the Spirit (Rom. 15:27), and a common enemy (I John 2:15-18; I Pet. 5:8). There can be no true fellowship with those who reject the teaching of N.T. faith.

II John 7-11

“For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him good speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.”

John warns that many deceivers and false teachers are perverting God’s Word and attempting to persuade Christians to accept their views. Christians should be aware of being indoctrinated by cultists. Their false teaching concerns the person of Jesus Christ. They deny that Jesus Christ was the eternal and only begotten Son of God, born of the virgin (Matt. 1:18; Luke 1:27), whose blood provides forgiveness for the sins of all who believe (I John 2:2; 4:9-10) and who is “the true God, and eternal life” (I John 5:20).

Galatians 1:9

“As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.”

The word “accursed” (Gk. anathema) means that one lies under the curse of God, is doomed to destruction, and will receive God’s wrath and damnation. (1) The apostle Paul reveals the Holy Spirit’s inspired attitude of judgment and indignation toward those who attempt to distort the original gospel of Christ (Gal. 1:7) and to change the truth of apostolic witness. This same attitude was evident in Jesus Christ (Matt. 23:13), Peter (II Pet. 2), John (II John 7-11), and Jude (Jude 3-4, 12-19), and will be found in the heart of every follower of Christ who loves the gospel of Christ as revealed in God’s Word and who believes that it is the indispensable good news of salvation for a world lost in sin (Rom. 10:14-15)

(2) Accursed are all those who preach a gospel contrary to the message that Paul preached, as revealed to him by Christ (Gal. 1:6, 11-12). Anyone adding to or taking away from the original and fundamental gospel of Christ and the apostles stands under the curse of God; “God shall take away his part out of the book of life” (Rev. 22:18-19).

(3) God commands believers to defend the faith (Jude 3), to correct in love (II Tim. 2:25-26), and to separate themselves from teachers, ministers, and others in the church who deny fundamental Bible truths taught by Jesus and the apostles (Gal. 1:8-9; Rom. 16: 17-18; II Cor. 6:17). These truths include:

(a) The deity of Christ and His virgin birth Matt. 1:23; John 20:28);
(b) The full inspiration and authority of God’s Word in all it teaches (II Tim. 3:16-17);
(c) The historicity of the fall of Adam (Rom. 5:12-19);
(d) The inherent corruption of human nature (Gen. 6:5; 8:21; Rom. 1:21-32; 3:10-18; 7:14, 21);
(e) The lostness of mankind without Christ (Acts 4:12; Rom. 1:16-32; 10:13-15);
(f) Salvation by faith in Christ as Lord and Saviour through His death and blood atonement (Rom. 3:24-25; 5:10);
(g) The bodily resurrection of Christ (Matt. 28:6; I Cor. 10:1);
(h) The historical reality of miracles in both the O.T. and N.T. (I Cor. 10:1);
(i) The reality of Satan and demons as spiritual beings (Matt. 4:1; 8:28; II Cor. 4:4; Eph. 2:2; 6:11-18; I Pet. 5:8);
(j) The Biblical teaching about hell (Mat. 10:28);
(k) The literal return of Jesus Christ to earth (John 14:3; Acts 1:11; ! Cor. 1:7).

Any teachings, doctrines, or ideas originating from persons, churches, or traditions and not expressed or implied in God’s Word, may not be included in the gospel of Christ (Gal. 1:11). To mix them with the original content of the gospel is to "pervert the gospel of Christ (Gal. 1:7). [/quote][/quote]

So…the Jews and the Muslims are out? And I don’t agree with saved by the fiducial faith alone. I mean I am sure you can be saved, but that is not the be all end all of faith. Catholicism is which is theological faith.

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html

/thread

[/quote]

That is by far one of the worst “annotated” Bibles in the world. Really, if a printing factory blew up and a mess of ink, paper, leather, and bounding material came together, I could probably consider it a better annotated Bible than that site.

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html

/thread

[/quote]

So, I google “answers to contradictions” or some such site and POOF like magic all of the perceived contradictions are gone.

Internet debates are fun huh? The ones you don’t have are even more fun.
[/quote]

Yeah, those suppossed answers are little more than dancing around semantics. Here’s something for you; why did god make us with foreskins if he wanted them removed? Why not just make us without foreskins?[/quote]

It was a distinction between those of Israel and those that weren’t Israel.

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html

/thread

[/quote]

So, I google “answers to contradictions” or some such site and POOF like magic all of the perceived contradictions are gone.

Internet debates are fun huh? The ones you don’t have are even more fun.
[/quote]

Yeah, those suppossed answers are little more than dancing around semantics.[/quote]

That is YOUR perception of the answers. To most people, including the 100’s of thousands of well educated Bible scholars for over 2000 years those answers are pretty darn good.

I have a better question for you. Why did God make a male’s testicles (the most sensitive part of a mans body) to hang outside, in front (not less) of his body?

[/quote]

Wait… you mean the very persons who have everything to gain from having millions of Christians throw their money at them for a sense of meaning actually APROVE of their own answers they give to keep their own psychotic illusions going? Wow, such strong testimony…
[/quote]

You probably mean the Catholic Church I am sure of, but then you would mean the biggest non-profit organization in the world and the biggest benefactor of the poor, tired, hungry, sick, homeless, &c. in the entire world? Oh…okay.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html

/thread

[/quote]

So, I google “answers to contradictions” or some such site and POOF like magic all of the perceived contradictions are gone.

Internet debates are fun huh? The ones you don’t have are even more fun.
[/quote]

Yeah, those suppossed answers are little more than dancing around semantics.[/quote]

That is YOUR perception of the answers. To most people, including the 100’s of thousands of well educated Bible scholars for over 2000 years those answers are pretty darn good.

I have a better question for you. Why did God make a male’s testicles (the most sensitive part of a mans body) to hang outside, in front (not less) of his body?

[/quote]

Wait… you mean the very persons who have everything to gain from having millions of Christians throw their money at them for a sense of meaning actually APROVE of their own answers they give to keep their own psychotic illusions going? Wow, such strong testimony…
[/quote]

You probably mean the Catholic Church I am sure of, but then you would mean the biggest non-profit organization in the world and the biggest benefactor of the poor, tired, hungry, sick, homeless, &c. in the entire world? Oh…okay.[/quote]

The Catholic church is “non-profit”? Sheesh, just imagine what they could do if they were for profit!

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html

/thread

[/quote]

That is by far one of the worst “annotated” Bibles in the world. Really, if a printing factory blew up and a mess of ink, paper, leather, and bounding material came together, I could probably consider it a better annotated Bible than that site. [/quote]

This site is by no means an exhaustive list of problems within your holy book. I’ve already posted something emore specific (jesus timeline) and you’re absolutely welcome to give it your best shot.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html

/thread

[/quote]

So, I google “answers to contradictions” or some such site and POOF like magic all of the perceived contradictions are gone.

Internet debates are fun huh? The ones you don’t have are even more fun.
[/quote]

Yeah, those suppossed answers are little more than dancing around semantics. Here’s something for you; why did god make us with foreskins if he wanted them removed? Why not just make us without foreskins?[/quote]

It was a distinction between those of Israel and those that weren’t Israel.[/quote]

You’ll notice someone else has beaten you to this.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
<<< So…the Jews and the Muslims are out? And I don’t agree with saved by the fiducial faith alone. I mean I am sure you can be saved, but that is not the be all end all of faith. Catholicism is which is theological faith.[/quote]Why ya gotta do this to me Chris. WHY!!! Are you telling me that non messianic jews and muslims are in God’s grace? And one more time my dear fuzzy little friend. Faith that saves also works or IT IS NOT saving faith. A transformed life evinces the indwelling presence of the risen Christ, but what one does, contributes nothing to their position of reconciliation with God. That is a VERY important aspect of soteriology. A gospel wherein works in any way adjust one’s life and death standing before the Lord is “another gospel” indeed.

No works? No faith.
No vital signs? No life.

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

Wait… you mean the very persons who have everything to gain from having millions of Christians throw their money at them for a sense of meaning actually APROVE of their own answers they give to keep their own psychotic illusions going? Wow, such strong testimony.[/quote]

Oh I don’t know about that -There have been a lot of bright people both with something to gain and with nothing to gain looking closely at the scriptures and coming to the same conclusions. And it also works the other way as well. many famous detractors and atheists are selling books/CD’s/DVD’s and doing seminars. If one side is being accused of intellectual dishonesty I think it’s only fair to look at the other side as well. The scriptures speak for themselves. They’ve survived a lot of stone throwing from others just like you and here we are in 2011 and they’re still there.

Wow, and you totally ignored my question about the testicles. And also what’s up with the appendix? It’s either needed or it isn’t. If it isn’t needed why is it there? And I’m not all that happy about little toes as long as we’re on the topic of how we are created. Why is it every time I get up in the middle of the night to get a drink of water I stub that little toe? Why not the big toe it can take it far better than the little one. Okay, someone stop me before I get into why hair has to fall out—I don’t know…

I apologize for engaging you to begin with. I’m not the guy that is going to defend God to someone who neither knows him nor wants to know him. I’ve done this gig with atheists before (right here on T Nation) and found that regardless of any evidence which I may bring to the debate it is never good enough. It really does come down to faith. I will never be able to prove the existence of God. That’s why the Bible talks about faith as being so important. I know, you don’t accept this. But that is the finest and best answer that I can give you. Foreskins, belly buttons, testicles and appendixes aside, what’s the point? We go back and forth for 20 pages and then what? I have not changed my mind and you probably won’t change yours either - I’d rather fight about politics IF I felt like fighting. God? Well, I’ll leave you to him, just the two of you.

There are a myriad of things that you and I don’t know. Those who pretend to know everything will most likely be the most upset when all is said and done.

Until then if you are bitter about life try not to be (some atheists are some are not). Things have a way of turning around if you trudge on and keep the faith…err in your case there is no faith to keep so just keep trudging.

All the best,

Zeb

PS- You should try baiting Trib with some of this stuff he might bite. If not him try Brother Chris he’s always game. But me…I’m sick of it.[/quote]

What is all this? There’s no need to ramble so much, if you no longer wish to engage, that’s fine. I’m not going to “shame” you to death. [/quote]

I really never wanted to “engage” I just wanted to point out that whatever you post from whichever website you find can be shot down by other equally good sites. So once again it’s what each chooses to believe.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
<<< I would rather have a knowledgeable priest than a holy priest as my spiritual director. >>>[/quote]The pharisees were right up your alley it appears. Nobody knew more and were less holy than them. [quote]Brother Chris wrote:God connects people in mysterious ways in salvific truth to the Catholic Faith. Now, there is some concrete ways that can be done, but to base someone’s sole ability to be saved on one truth is ridiculous.[/quote]I’m gonna let you clarity this before I make a wrong assumption and thereby further damage our struggling friendship.

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

Wait… you mean the very persons who have everything to gain from having millions of Christians throw their money at them for a sense of meaning actually APROVE of their own answers they give to keep their own psychotic illusions going? Wow, such strong testimony.[/quote]

Oh I don’t know about that -There have been a lot of bright people both with something to gain and with nothing to gain looking closely at the scriptures and coming to the same conclusions. And it also works the other way as well. many famous detractors and atheists are selling books/CD’s/DVD’s and doing seminars. If one side is being accused of intellectual dishonesty I think it’s only fair to look at the other side as well. The scriptures speak for themselves. They’ve survived a lot of stone throwing from others just like you and here we are in 2011 and they’re still there.

Wow, and you totally ignored my question about the testicles. And also what’s up with the appendix? It’s either needed or it isn’t. If it isn’t needed why is it there? And I’m not all that happy about little toes as long as we’re on the topic of how we are created. Why is it every time I get up in the middle of the night to get a drink of water I stub that little toe? Why not the big toe it can take it far better than the little one. Okay, someone stop me before I get into why hair has to fall out—I don’t know…

I apologize for engaging you to begin with. I’m not the guy that is going to defend God to someone who neither knows him nor wants to know him. I’ve done this gig with atheists before (right here on T Nation) and found that regardless of any evidence which I may bring to the debate it is never good enough. It really does come down to faith. I will never be able to prove the existence of God. That’s why the Bible talks about faith as being so important. I know, you don’t accept this. But that is the finest and best answer that I can give you. Foreskins, belly buttons, testicles and appendixes aside, what’s the point? We go back and forth for 20 pages and then what? I have not changed my mind and you probably won’t change yours either - I’d rather fight about politics IF I felt like fighting. God? Well, I’ll leave you to him, just the two of you.

There are a myriad of things that you and I don’t know. Those who pretend to know everything will most likely be the most upset when all is said and done.

Until then if you are bitter about life try not to be (some atheists are some are not). Things have a way of turning around if you trudge on and keep the faith…err in your case there is no faith to keep so just keep trudging.

All the best,

Zeb

PS- You should try baiting Trib with some of this stuff he might bite. If not him try Brother Chris he’s always game. But me…I’m sick of it.[/quote]

What is all this? There’s no need to ramble so much, if you no longer wish to engage, that’s fine. I’m not going to “shame” you to death. [/quote]

I really never wanted to “engage” I just wanted to point out that whatever you post from whichever website you find can be shot down by other equally good sites. So once again it’s what each chooses to believe.
[/quote]

If I chose to believe the Earth was flat, would it be true just because I can find a website that supports such a position?

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

Wait… you mean the very persons who have everything to gain from having millions of Christians throw their money at them for a sense of meaning actually APROVE of their own answers they give to keep their own psychotic illusions going? Wow, such strong testimony.[/quote]

Oh I don’t know about that -There have been a lot of bright people both with something to gain and with nothing to gain looking closely at the scriptures and coming to the same conclusions. And it also works the other way as well. many famous detractors and atheists are selling books/CD’s/DVD’s and doing seminars. If one side is being accused of intellectual dishonesty I think it’s only fair to look at the other side as well. The scriptures speak for themselves. They’ve survived a lot of stone throwing from others just like you and here we are in 2011 and they’re still there.

Wow, and you totally ignored my question about the testicles. And also what’s up with the appendix? It’s either needed or it isn’t. If it isn’t needed why is it there? And I’m not all that happy about little toes as long as we’re on the topic of how we are created. Why is it every time I get up in the middle of the night to get a drink of water I stub that little toe? Why not the big toe it can take it far better than the little one. Okay, someone stop me before I get into why hair has to fall out—I don’t know…

I apologize for engaging you to begin with. I’m not the guy that is going to defend God to someone who neither knows him nor wants to know him. I’ve done this gig with atheists before (right here on T Nation) and found that regardless of any evidence which I may bring to the debate it is never good enough. It really does come down to faith. I will never be able to prove the existence of God. That’s why the Bible talks about faith as being so important. I know, you don’t accept this. But that is the finest and best answer that I can give you. Foreskins, belly buttons, testicles and appendixes aside, what’s the point? We go back and forth for 20 pages and then what? I have not changed my mind and you probably won’t change yours either - I’d rather fight about politics IF I felt like fighting. God? Well, I’ll leave you to him, just the two of you.

There are a myriad of things that you and I don’t know. Those who pretend to know everything will most likely be the most upset when all is said and done.

Until then if you are bitter about life try not to be (some atheists are some are not). Things have a way of turning around if you trudge on and keep the faith…err in your case there is no faith to keep so just keep trudging.

All the best,

Zeb

PS- You should try baiting Trib with some of this stuff he might bite. If not him try Brother Chris he’s always game. But me…I’m sick of it.[/quote]

What is all this? There’s no need to ramble so much, if you no longer wish to engage, that’s fine. I’m not going to “shame” you to death. [/quote]

I really never wanted to “engage” I just wanted to point out that whatever you post from whichever website you find can be shot down by other equally good sites. So once again it’s what each chooses to believe.
[/quote]

If I chose to believe the Earth was flat, would it be true just because I can find a website that supports such a position? [/quote]

No but if you choose to believe that there is no God there are hundreds of web sites that will give you all kinds of information very much refutable by the hundreds of Christian web sites. Like I’ve been saying it’s all about faith. You either have it or you don’t. Basing spirituality on scientific proof is like basing science on faith. The two are completely different and not to be compared.

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html

/thread

[/quote]

So, I google “answers to contradictions” or some such site and POOF like magic all of the perceived contradictions are gone.

Internet debates are fun huh? The ones you don’t have are even more fun.
[/quote]

Yeah, those suppossed answers are little more than dancing around semantics.[/quote]

That is YOUR perception of the answers. To most people, including the 100’s of thousands of well educated Bible scholars for over 2000 years those answers are pretty darn good.

I have a better question for you. Why did God make a male’s testicles (the most sensitive part of a mans body) to hang outside, in front (not less) of his body?

[/quote]

Wait… you mean the very persons who have everything to gain from having millions of Christians throw their money at them for a sense of meaning actually APROVE of their own answers they give to keep their own psychotic illusions going? Wow, such strong testimony…
[/quote]

You probably mean the Catholic Church I am sure of, but then you would mean the biggest non-profit organization in the world and the biggest benefactor of the poor, tired, hungry, sick, homeless, &c. in the entire world? Oh…okay.[/quote]

The Catholic church is “non-profit”? Sheesh, just imagine what they could do if they were for profit! [/quote]

I don’t know, make the gap between the first and second biggest benefactor to society even wider. And, I’m not sure how making it a for profit organization would make a difference, we’d still not make a profit.

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html

/thread

[/quote]

So, I google “answers to contradictions” or some such site and POOF like magic all of the perceived contradictions are gone.

Internet debates are fun huh? The ones you don’t have are even more fun.
[/quote]

Yeah, those suppossed answers are little more than dancing around semantics. Here’s something for you; why did god make us with foreskins if he wanted them removed? Why not just make us without foreskins?[/quote]

It was a distinction between those of Israel and those that weren’t Israel.[/quote]

You’ll notice someone else has beaten you to this.[/quote]

Not as quick as I once was…must be getting old.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Tirib is weak to scandal…as Francis de Sales said, even though those who commit scandal commit spiritual murder, those that allow scandal to affect their faith commit spiritual suicide. And I remember reading about a spiritual giant that lived around the first couple of centuries that said, I would rather have a knowledgeable priest than a holy priest as my spiritual director.

God connects people in mysterious ways in salvific truth to the Catholic Faith. Now, there is some concrete ways that can be done, but to base someone’s sole ability to be saved on one truth is ridiculous.[/quote]

Good stuff.

I say that the truth is one, but it comes to us in a multitude of ways.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
<<< So…the Jews and the Muslims are out? And I don’t agree with saved by the fiducial faith alone. I mean I am sure you can be saved, but that is not the be all end all of faith. Catholicism is which is theological faith.[/quote]Why ya gotta do this to me Chris. WHY!!! Are you telling me that non messianic jews and muslims are in God’s grace? And one more time my dear fuzzy little friend. Faith that saves also works or IT IS NOT saving faith. A transformed life evinces the indwelling presence of the risen Christ, but what one does, contributes nothing to their position of reconciliation with God. That is a VERY important aspect of soteriology. A gospel wherein works in any way adjust one’s life and death standing before the Lord is “another gospel” indeed.

No works? No faith.
No vital signs? No life.
[/quote]

Sola Fide, is like telling someone that in order to drive some where all they need to do is just turn the car on or for abbreviation purposes Sola Turn-a-on. Then when they say, well don’t you need to put it into gear and steer the wheel and press the gas to actually get there…and then you say, well of course without shifting, gas, and turning the wheel you are not going to get there.

Just is a confusing doctrine and name. It is very close to being heretical as well, because it states that works aren’t needed in some of the Sola Fide doctrines.

This is how I explain it, all you need is faith alone if you’re getting baptized, but unless you die right away after baptism…you need to do God’s will…a.k.a. Good works.

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

Wait… you mean the very persons who have everything to gain from having millions of Christians throw their money at them for a sense of meaning actually APROVE of their own answers they give to keep their own psychotic illusions going? Wow, such strong testimony.[/quote]

Oh I don’t know about that -There have been a lot of bright people both with something to gain and with nothing to gain looking closely at the scriptures and coming to the same conclusions. And it also works the other way as well. many famous detractors and atheists are selling books/CD’s/DVD’s and doing seminars. If one side is being accused of intellectual dishonesty I think it’s only fair to look at the other side as well. The scriptures speak for themselves. They’ve survived a lot of stone throwing from others just like you and here we are in 2011 and they’re still there.

Wow, and you totally ignored my question about the testicles. And also what’s up with the appendix? It’s either needed or it isn’t. If it isn’t needed why is it there? And I’m not all that happy about little toes as long as we’re on the topic of how we are created. Why is it every time I get up in the middle of the night to get a drink of water I stub that little toe? Why not the big toe it can take it far better than the little one. Okay, someone stop me before I get into why hair has to fall out—I don’t know…

I apologize for engaging you to begin with. I’m not the guy that is going to defend God to someone who neither knows him nor wants to know him. I’ve done this gig with atheists before (right here on T Nation) and found that regardless of any evidence which I may bring to the debate it is never good enough. It really does come down to faith. I will never be able to prove the existence of God. That’s why the Bible talks about faith as being so important. I know, you don’t accept this. But that is the finest and best answer that I can give you. Foreskins, belly buttons, testicles and appendixes aside, what’s the point? We go back and forth for 20 pages and then what? I have not changed my mind and you probably won’t change yours either - I’d rather fight about politics IF I felt like fighting. God? Well, I’ll leave you to him, just the two of you.

There are a myriad of things that you and I don’t know. Those who pretend to know everything will most likely be the most upset when all is said and done.

Until then if you are bitter about life try not to be (some atheists are some are not). Things have a way of turning around if you trudge on and keep the faith…err in your case there is no faith to keep so just keep trudging.

All the best,

Zeb

PS- You should try baiting Trib with some of this stuff he might bite. If not him try Brother Chris he’s always game. But me…I’m sick of it.[/quote]

What is all this? There’s no need to ramble so much, if you no longer wish to engage, that’s fine. I’m not going to “shame” you to death. [/quote]

I really never wanted to “engage” I just wanted to point out that whatever you post from whichever website you find can be shot down by other equally good sites. So once again it’s what each chooses to believe.
[/quote]

If I chose to believe the Earth was flat, would it be true just because I can find a website that supports such a position? [/quote]

No but if you choose to believe that there is no God there are hundreds of web sites that will give you all kinds of information very much refutable by the hundreds of Christian web sites. Like I’ve been saying it’s all about faith. You either have it or you don’t. Basing spirituality on scientific proof is like basing science on faith. The two are completely different and not to be compared.
[/quote]

I’ve started going into the specifics of these problems (jesus timeline). You’re welcome to join in anytime.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
<<< I would rather have a knowledgeable priest than a holy priest as my spiritual director. >>>[/quote]The pharisees were right up your alley it appears. Nobody knew more and were less holy than them. [quote]Brother Chris wrote:God connects people in mysterious ways in salvific truth to the Catholic Faith. Now, there is some concrete ways that can be done, but to base someone’s sole ability to be saved on one truth is ridiculous.[/quote]I’m gonna let you clarity this before I make a wrong assumption and thereby further damage our struggling friendship.
[/quote]

I’m glad you know how to edit my post so it reads as if it were a personal statement.

However, Jesus would agree with this particular Saint, as he told people to do as the Pharisees say, but not as they do. Matthew 23:1-3.

I don’t understand why you think it is a struggling friendship.

Anyway, people are connected to the Catholic Church through Salvific truth, Orthodox being first as they have all seven sacraments, Protestants, &c.

Anyway, they are related through Salvific Truth, however they are further away from us NOT by what they do not claim of the truth, BUT of what they DENY of the truth.

See Muslims, they believe there is one God. Catholics can agree on that, they believe Jesus was a great Prophet (now if this is all he was, that can be argued but in a single claim here) we can agree with that, so we have some points of relation. They have similar beliefs in Mary, Purgatory, Theology of God, &c. So they have relations with the Catholic Church on Salvific relations. However, how we are separated is that they deny Jesus to be God. And, there are many relations with people around the world that only God could know.

That is like some Chinese priests I know, they knew Jesus was God…they just couldn’t come to becoming a Christian because there was no great mother. However, when they learned that some Christians do have a great mother (three mother’s actually) they became Catholics and that is because their religion had a mother (now it may be wrong in the sense they thought one of their great mothers was a God) but part of it was close to Catholicism as the Holy Ghost is our Mother Wisdom, which is the most perfect and full image of Motherhood which Mary reflected, which the Church tries to reflect Mary’s image sitting at the feet of Jesus, her bridegroom.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html

/thread

[/quote]

So, I google “answers to contradictions” or some such site and POOF like magic all of the perceived contradictions are gone.

Internet debates are fun huh? The ones you don’t have are even more fun.
[/quote]

Yeah, those suppossed answers are little more than dancing around semantics.[/quote]

That is YOUR perception of the answers. To most people, including the 100’s of thousands of well educated Bible scholars for over 2000 years those answers are pretty darn good.

I have a better question for you. Why did God make a male’s testicles (the most sensitive part of a mans body) to hang outside, in front (not less) of his body?

[/quote]

Wait… you mean the very persons who have everything to gain from having millions of Christians throw their money at them for a sense of meaning actually APROVE of their own answers they give to keep their own psychotic illusions going? Wow, such strong testimony…
[/quote]

You probably mean the Catholic Church I am sure of, but then you would mean the biggest non-profit organization in the world and the biggest benefactor of the poor, tired, hungry, sick, homeless, &c. in the entire world? Oh…okay.[/quote]

The Catholic church is “non-profit”? Sheesh, just imagine what they could do if they were for profit! [/quote]

I don’t know, make the gap between the first and second biggest benefactor to society even wider. And, I’m not sure how making it a for profit organization would make a difference, we’d still not make a profit.[/quote]

I’m saying the proponants of the Catholic church have been laughing all the way to the bank for hundreds of years. Whether you call it for profit or not doesn’t change the fact that these men of the cloth have everything to gain from spreading Christianity, so the fact they they support their own theories doesn’t mean much.

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html

/thread

[/quote]

So, I google “answers to contradictions” or some such site and POOF like magic all of the perceived contradictions are gone.

Internet debates are fun huh? The ones you don’t have are even more fun.
[/quote]

Yeah, those suppossed answers are little more than dancing around semantics.[/quote]

That is YOUR perception of the answers. To most people, including the 100’s of thousands of well educated Bible scholars for over 2000 years those answers are pretty darn good.

I have a better question for you. Why did God make a male’s testicles (the most sensitive part of a mans body) to hang outside, in front (not less) of his body?

[/quote]

Wait… you mean the very persons who have everything to gain from having millions of Christians throw their money at them for a sense of meaning actually APROVE of their own answers they give to keep their own psychotic illusions going? Wow, such strong testimony…
[/quote]

You probably mean the Catholic Church I am sure of, but then you would mean the biggest non-profit organization in the world and the biggest benefactor of the poor, tired, hungry, sick, homeless, &c. in the entire world? Oh…okay.[/quote]

The Catholic church is “non-profit”? Sheesh, just imagine what they could do if they were for profit! [/quote]

I don’t know, make the gap between the first and second biggest benefactor to society even wider. And, I’m not sure how making it a for profit organization would make a difference, we’d still not make a profit.[/quote]

I’m saying the proponants of the Catholic church have been laughing all the way to the bank for hundreds of years. Whether you call it for profit or not doesn’t change the fact that these men of the cloth have everything to gain from spreading Christianity, so the fact they they support their own theories doesn’t mean much. [/quote]

Laughing to the bank? You do know that most priests live in poverty right…they own nothing? And, the “proponents” of the Catholic Church are still the largest, biggest, mightiest, whatever you want to call it, benefactors to society, specifically to the poor, sick, homeless, tired, orphans, widows, &c. And, the “bank” is not really “full.” So, unless you got some great information you’d like to divulge to the rest of the world, please stop with the false claims.