[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
little Catholic sowing circle.[/quote]Don’t lie, you know you like getting together with me and the old ladies from Mass to nit and watch Golden Girls and the Braves.[/quote] “KNIT” has a K. No wonder you’re so confused.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Lol @ absent minded my eye. Trust me, my kin has to ask me a couple dozen times a day if I’m listening.[/quote]That’s because you’re preoccupied trying to grope your way through all this Catholic dogma finding responses to all these posts =]
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
little Catholic sowing circle.[/quote]Don’t lie, you know you like getting together with me and the old ladies from Mass to nit and watch Golden Girls and the Braves.[/quote] “KNIT” has a K. No wonder you’re so confused.
[/quote]
Yes, another accident while using my phone to type. I need my computer.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Lol @ absent minded my eye. Trust me, my kin has to ask me a couple dozen times a day if I’m listening.[/quote]That’s because you’re preoccupied trying to grope your way through all this Catholic dogma finding responses to all these posts =]
[/quote]
The assertion that I have to grope through anything is preposterous, the Holy Church, in her wisdom, directed by the Holy Ghost’s wisdom, teaches it and I – being obedient to Jesus – believe it.
Nevertheless, the better part of my day during which I am not occupied by prayer or mundane day-to-day chores my mind is filled with thoughts of value investments, economic theory, and fantasy sports.
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
Tiribulus, I actually didn’t realize you believed this so let me confirm. Are you saying that God hates both the sinner and the sin?
If so, that is pretty harsh. It’s more consistent with the old testament view of God as a savage, vindictive, jealous, egocentric being of enormous power but lacking in mercy, compassion, and love.
I always believed God was the very definition of Love. That doesn’t mean He can overthrow the eternal laws of mercy and justice, which will result in the damnation of those who reject Him. But His compassion and love are infinite, and He wants all to come unto Him and be saved. [/quote]
Wow you REALLY have wise things to say when it comes to the Christian faith.
I think your subconscious it telling you something ;)[/quote]
But as we all know wisdom is really only proven by deeds. Mere words when actions are the contrary is not wisdom at all.
[/quote]
Wait, but what about faith alone?[/quote]
Works are the fruits of faith. So in the end…faith alone ;)[/quote]
So…you expect the Devil to be saved…I mean the Devil knows, he doesn’t just have faith, he knows Yeshua personally, he knows Yeshua is the savior, he knows Yeshua is God.[/quote]
…
No. Please try to understand my fellow Christian. Works are the FRUITS of faith. Yes, Satan and his minions know who Christ is and they know all glory belongs to him. But he wants that glory for himself. Remember, Satan KNOWS these things, and he has seen them himself.
“Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.” Heb 11:1
Satan doesn’t have faith. He just has knowledge. And as we know, knowledge can be good and bad.
A man genuinely comes to Christ today and becomes a member of a church and tells the priest that he wants to get baptized. He is to be baptized the next day. He goes home but on the way there gets into a terrible car accident and he dies. Does he go to heaven?
[/quote]
Do not mistake my intentions for ignorance, I know about Lucifer. I was pointing out that sola fide is a heresy.
Before we go any further, tell me what you think “works” and what “faith” are in your understanding of the words.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
<<< sola fide is a heresy. >>>[/quote]Sola fide, properly understood, IS the gospel.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
<<< sola fide is a heresy. >>>[/quote]Sola fide, properly understood, IS the gospel.
[/quote]
No it is not.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
<<< sola fide is a heresy. >>>[/quote]Sola fide, properly understood, IS the gospel.
[/quote]
No it is not.[/quote]Yes it is. Your turn =]
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
You just can’t bear the idea of One Truth through all religions can you?
Do you think God ceases to exist and work His will outside of the RC machine?[/quote]
There is SOME truth to all religions, like for example:
Islam: Monotheistic faith
Buddhism: Be kind and gentle
Native american: respect nature
So on and so forth.
But NO ONE can save you except the Son of the living God, and that is Jesus Christ. If you are a Christian, you must believe this, otherwise you’re not Christian. If I was Muslim and said Muhammad wasn’t the last profit of God, can I be a Muslim, if I deny such a concrete teaching from the Qu’ran?
That is why Oprah is not Christian though she claims to be. She says there are many ways to God. No there isn’t. Just one. Jesus Christ.[/quote]
What if Jesus Christ existed everywhere, all the time, just like God? (I am with you always).
What if other people know the same State of Beingness as another name? Using a different vernacular, just like people of the world use different languages? What if Christ is Krishna is Nature/Life Force is Buddha is God and so on. What if everyone has been talking about and worshiping the same Being (or aspect thereof) for millennia, but have developed their own stories using their own language from their own culture? Wouldn’t that be a grand cosmic joke! The Truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.
Some groups pigeon-hole themselves into one particular way and that’s fine. But when they say its the only VALID way, and everyone else is WRONG, then we are entering the intolerant extremist category… the Taliban comes to mind…[/quote]
This is indifferentialism…and a heresy. I am sorry, but I can not agree with you.[/quote]
No need to apologize for your beliefs. It’s still a free country. And it doesn’t matter one wit to me if you agree or not. That’s because I’m not emotionally vested in any one particular religion. Who am I to judge how God chooses to reveal Himself to His people?
I believe your Pope said something recently about God being infinitely creative (or something along those lines).
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
<<< sola fide is a heresy. >>>[/quote]Sola fide, properly understood, IS the gospel.
[/quote]
No it is not.[/quote]Yes it is. Your turn =]
[/quote]
Sola fide is true, if faith is not opposed to charity, because in fact, we do good work whenever we are not opposed to charity. If you say sola fide is true, but are not obedient to God’s will (do not do ‘good works’), then you believe in heresy, sorry.
[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
You just can’t bear the idea of One Truth through all religions can you?
Do you think God ceases to exist and work His will outside of the RC machine?[/quote]
There is SOME truth to all religions, like for example:
Islam: Monotheistic faith
Buddhism: Be kind and gentle
Native american: respect nature
So on and so forth.
But NO ONE can save you except the Son of the living God, and that is Jesus Christ. If you are a Christian, you must believe this, otherwise you’re not Christian. If I was Muslim and said Muhammad wasn’t the last profit of God, can I be a Muslim, if I deny such a concrete teaching from the Qu’ran?
That is why Oprah is not Christian though she claims to be. She says there are many ways to God. No there isn’t. Just one. Jesus Christ.[/quote]
What if Jesus Christ existed everywhere, all the time, just like God? (I am with you always).
What if other people know the same State of Beingness as another name? Using a different vernacular, just like people of the world use different languages? What if Christ is Krishna is Nature/Life Force is Buddha is God and so on. What if everyone has been talking about and worshiping the same Being (or aspect thereof) for millennia, but have developed their own stories using their own language from their own culture? Wouldn’t that be a grand cosmic joke! The Truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.
Some groups pigeon-hole themselves into one particular way and that’s fine. But when they say its the only VALID way, and everyone else is WRONG, then we are entering the intolerant extremist category… the Taliban comes to mind…[/quote]
This is indifferentialism…and a heresy. I am sorry, but I can not agree with you.[/quote]
No need to apologize for your beliefs. It’s still a free country. And it doesn’t matter one wit to me if you agree or not. That’s because I’m not emotionally vested in any one particular religion. Who am I to judge how God chooses to reveal Himself to His people?
I believe your Pope said something recently about God being infinitely creative (or something along those lines).
[/quote]
I’m sure my Pope said something along those lines as God is infinitely creative, however, Jesus still established only one Church.
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
Tiribulus, I actually didn’t realize you believed this so let me confirm. Are you saying that God hates both the sinner and the sin?
If so, that is pretty harsh. It’s more consistent with the old testament view of God as a savage, vindictive, jealous, egocentric being of enormous power but lacking in mercy, compassion, and love.
I always believed God was the very definition of Love. That doesn’t mean He can overthrow the eternal laws of mercy and justice, which will result in the damnation of those who reject Him. But His compassion and love are infinite, and He wants all to come unto Him and be saved. [/quote]
Wow you REALLY have wise things to say when it comes to the Christian faith.
I think your subconscious it telling you something ;)[/quote]
But as we all know wisdom is really only proven by deeds. Mere words when actions are the contrary is not wisdom at all.
[/quote]
Wait, but what about faith alone?[/quote]
Works are the fruits of faith. So in the end…faith alone ;)[/quote]
What if you believe, but are an asshole?
Pat:
if you’re an asshole then you truly don’t believe. For scriptures say “Love thy neighbor”. Which means the faith isn’t there. I said works are the fruits of faith. Works show what it is you truly believe.
I also hope you weren’t referring to me as an asshole 
[quote]forbes wrote:
Pat:
if you’re an asshole then you truly don’t believe. For scriptures say “Love thy neighbor”. Which means the faith isn’t there. I said works are the fruits of faith. Works show what it is you truly believe.
I also hope you weren’t referring to me as an asshole :P[/quote]
No of course not! I hope I didn’t come across like that. I would agree to a point but you know as well as I do that there are folks claiming to be religious acting in abominable ways. I submit to you the Westboro Baptist Church. I am sure you are familiar with them. I have mentioned them here mainly because I believe that Tirib submits to this perversion of Christianity as they do; but that is a separate topic. I mention them because they are an abomination of Christianity, a perverter of God’s word and flat satanic in action. Yet, they claim to be saved, they claim to have the Word and to be followers of Christ. The fruit they produce is rotten they are ministers of hate. They use God to support their own pervsions not to serve him, but yet they stake a claim of Holiness.
What do you think about them, are you familiar with the awful things they do and stand for? Would you agree with them?
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
Pat:
if you’re an asshole then you truly don’t believe. For scriptures say “Love thy neighbor”. Which means the faith isn’t there. I said works are the fruits of faith. Works show what it is you truly believe.
I also hope you weren’t referring to me as an asshole :P[/quote]
No of course not! I hope I didn’t come across like that. I would agree to a point but you know as well as I do that there are folks claiming to be religious acting in abominable ways. I submit to you the Westboro Baptist Church. I am sure you are familiar with them. I have mentioned them here mainly because I believe that Tirib submits to this perversion of Christianity as they do; but that is a separate topic. I mention them because they are an abomination of Christianity, a perverter of God’s word and flat satanic in action. Yet, they claim to be saved, they claim to have the Word and to be followers of Christ. The fruit they produce is rotten they are ministers of hate. They use God to support their own pervsions not to serve him, but yet they stake a claim of Holiness.
What do you think about them, are you familiar with the awful things they do and stand for? Would you agree with them? [/quote]
I believe that the westboro baptist church (all in lower case letters, because I have no respect for them) are an abomination of desolation to all that is “Christian”.
They hate sin AND sinners. However if God hates sinners, he wouldn’t have died for them. They will surely feel God’s wrath on the day of judgment.
However, how do you feel Tirib is like that? I haven’t seen him speak out with such hatred as the WBC.
Maybe I missed it, but it’s unfortunate that Tiribulus didn’t answer my question about believing God hates the sinner as well as the sin.
I don’t understand how someone could read the bible and walk away with such a perception, especially after studying the life of Christ in the gospels. It would require a very narrow reading of the condemnations declared on the wicked, and a total disregard for the heart of Christ’s message to all.
Jesus was all about love. He condemned sin, but he loved the sinner and wanted all to partake of His grace. His compassion is exemplified in the shortest verse in the bible: “Jesus wept”.
Yes, nobody can escape the Law outside of Christ’s atonement. You can’t sin with impunity. But that doesn’t mean Jesus doesn’t want all to partake of his atonement:
Luke 13:34
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
Pat:
if you’re an asshole then you truly don’t believe. For scriptures say “Love thy neighbor”. Which means the faith isn’t there. I said works are the fruits of faith. Works show what it is you truly believe.
I also hope you weren’t referring to me as an asshole :P[/quote]
No of course not! I hope I didn’t come across like that. I would agree to a point but you know as well as I do that there are folks claiming to be religious acting in abominable ways. I submit to you the Westboro Baptist Church. I am sure you are familiar with them. I have mentioned them here mainly because I believe that Tirib submits to this perversion of Christianity as they do; but that is a separate topic. I mention them because they are an abomination of Christianity, a perverter of God’s word and flat satanic in action. Yet, they claim to be saved, they claim to have the Word and to be followers of Christ. The fruit they produce is rotten they are ministers of hate. They use God to support their own pervsions not to serve him, but yet they stake a claim of Holiness.
What do you think about them, are you familiar with the awful things they do and stand for? Would you agree with them? [/quote]
I believe that the westboro baptist church (all in lower case letters, because I have no respect for them) are an abomination of desolation to all that is “Christian”.
They hate sin AND sinners. However if God hates sinners, he wouldn’t have died for them. They will surely feel God’s wrath on the day of judgment.
However, how do you feel Tirib is like that? I haven’t seen him speak out with such hatred as the WBC.[/quote]
I have, many times.
[quote]forlife wrote:
Maybe I missed it, but it’s unfortunate that Tiribulus didn’t answer my question about believing God hates the sinner as well as the sin.
I don’t understand how someone could read the bible and walk away with such a perception, especially after studying the life of Christ in the gospels. It would require a very narrow reading of the condemnations declared on the wicked, and a total disregard for the heart of Christ’s message to all.
Jesus was all about love. He condemned sin, but he loved the sinner and wanted all to partake of His grace. His compassion is exemplified in the shortest verse in the bible: “Jesus wept”.
Yes, nobody can escape the Law outside of Christ’s atonement. You can’t sin with impunity. But that doesn’t mean Jesus doesn’t want all to partake of his atonement:
Luke 13:34
Damn shame your agnostic, what a waste of talent.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]apbt55 wrote: <<< God hates the sin not the person.
Like your own child, you may hate what they do, but will always love them. (we are human so this is not the case for all)
But you also want them to see what they are doing is wrong, ask for forgiveness and seriously attempt to change what it is they may be doing.
[/quote]Here watch this Chris. I disagree with apbt55 here entirely and have already extensively cited scripture demonstrating Why. Even your (Brother Chris’s) friar from our lady of Guadalupe got this. In that homily linked by you a good while back he specifically addressed this very, quite modern concept of God “hating the sin and loving the sinner” doing an able job of refuting it.
No offense to apbt55, seriously. I don’t really know you and intend nothing further by this post than to say you are just wrong on this point. This is what happens when we allow what we would do dictate what God would do rather than simply letting Him speak. The whole of the RCC is the result of this very error.
[/quote]
I take no offense,
I am sorry I am not Catholic, but don’t chastise me, I am a christian I attend a baptist church.
I was more referring to the way in which we are to view people. Not inconsequential beings, but as an eternal soul. And that even though we do not have the power to save them or force them to see or understand the light, that we still have an obligation as the children of god to care for their soul and be an example. To be the ones that can say follow me as I follow Christ.
But at the same time, we should not accept the abhorrent behavior.
Does that make more sense.
I absolutely agree with the above. I only included the homily by our young friar here because even he is renouncing the idea of God loving sinners, but hating sin. God will not be throwing people He loves into the lake of fire as weeps about how sorry He is. It is His glorious justice being displayed and I do thank Him beyond words that it won’t be me AND that those He redeems will find no anguish in the event.