[quote]Makavali wrote:
<<< You’d take a sword to a child. All I’m hearing here.[/quote]Don’t you dare play holier than thou with me pal. Your sick demented godless heathen kind have no problem going into an office and paying strangers to violate their womb and butcher THEIR OWN unborn offspring, utterly dependent, waiting for a chance to live. I would follow the command of almighty God to purge the Earth of whatever unrighteousness He saw fit if we still lived in the economy of law, which we do not.
You on the other hand murder your own in the name of self worshiping convenience and hedonism. Ya know what? As horrific and sinful as that is and as much I abhor everything about it? I know that even in the stone hearted depraved holocaust of unborn children God is exalted and glorified and His mighty purpose is shown forth in all the Earth. Because most people who would commit or approve of the unthinkable evil of dismembering and murdering the absolutely most vulnerable and dependent among us, PEOPLE THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR SPAWNING? I shed no tears over the thought of them not reproducing themselves and thus self thinning their own herd.
That is a less charitable way of saying what Sloth has been saying all along. You pagans are killing yourselves off. I’d prefer you turn from your sin and know the abundant life found in Jesus Christ, but if not? I hope ya keep it up. You are a generation that celebrates death as progress. You deserve death indeed and are ironically and to the praise of God’s glorious justice bringing it to yourselves by your own hand.
You’re a pathetic hypocritical baby killing moral and spiritual corpse. I will continue to pray that God’s triumphant grace be shown to you in His reaching down into that grave and giving you his own life whereby your eyes can be truly opened and your heart truly quickened to His absolute justice, holiness, mercy and love.[/quote]
LOL.
You have no idea what my views on abortion are, and your oh-so-Christian response is just hilarious.
You would take a sword to a child if you thought your imaginary friend told you to. You stated this clearly.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Without question abortion is the single worst abomination that exists. There is no crime worse than that which is perpetrated on the weakest and most defensless. And there is also no question that Christians through out the world (especially the Catholic church) have held the line on the crime of abortion.[/quote]
How about skewering a child with a sword?
Nah, that’s fine as long as God told you to do it.
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
I tried to to bring some of these questions up in another thread, but no one could answer them.
Explain why you can’t go to heaven if you have your penis cut off (and in John Bobbit’s case, since it was re-attached does that count?). Deuteronomy 23:1
Well, even though I have no desire to get involved with the thread as a whole really, I think this one is fairly easy if you understand historical context. The term “assembly of the Lord” is in all probability a reference to the actual people of Israel–the God’s Chosen People-- The Hebrews, not “Heaven”. There were provisions for foreigners to become part of the “chosen people” by becoming circumcised and making the appropriate sacrifices if I recall correctly.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
<<< You have no idea what my views on abortion are, >>>[/quote]Go ahead n tell us. Or shaddup. You tell me that you are unequivocally opposed to the murderous practice of abortion and I will without hesitation recant my statement as applying to you and apologize for assuming I figured your position correctly. I have no problem doing that and maybe I should have even found out before that post. Go ahead. Make me look like a fool.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Without question abortion is the single worst abomination that exists. There is no crime worse than that which is perpetrated on the weakest and most defensless. And there is also no question that Christians through out the world (especially the Catholic church) have held the line on the crime of abortion.[/quote]
How about skewering a child with a sword?
Nah, that’s fine as long as God told you to do it.[/quote]How bout YOU answer, about something that has happened thousands of times just today at the hands of “enlightened” modern man instead of frothing yourself up over a 3000 year old command of God.
[quote]forbes wrote:
From the hate being received in this thread, I don’t know if I should start fearing for my life…[/quote]
Haha, don’t worry about it. As long as you stay true to the Word you’ll always have those that hate you/it. I used to get frustrated about going through long explanations of evidence for belief only for someone to say, “only an idiot would believe.” All you can do is your part. God has to do the rest. [/quote]Pretty good man. Seriously. And from Quebec? If that isn’t proof positive of the faithfulness of almighty God I don’t know what is. I don’t think I can go along with your explanation of the old covenant and the church age, but, that’s alright.
[/quote]
Thanks. Technically, it’s been a couple generations since my family was from Quebec, but I figured what the heck. I used to get on websites and debate until I was frustrated that somebody wouldn’t accept my viewpoint. Now I’m just glad to be able to share God’s Word and my faith. Nobody really ever convinced me to believe. It had to come from years of questioning, searching, and then finally listening.[/quote]Ya know what’s funny? The guy who led me to the Lord did not argue with me one bit. He told me I was living in open rebellion against a holy God and would be damned for eternity if I persisted. That simple. By what I now recognize as the resurrecting power of the risen Christ, I believed him. I was 20 years old. It was like slow motion. I asked him what I should do. He told me to confess that I was fully deserving of death by His hand and only by His righteousness could I be saved, and ask Him to do it. He said that Father God who cannot lie would honor the eternal covenant made with His Son and bring me to new life in His resurrection. When I left his apartment I wasn’t even sure what had just happened to me.
I was like “did I just have some kinda religious thing or sumthin”? I took the bible he gave me and went to bed. It was late when I got back to my trailer. The next morning I woke up and started reading the Gospel of John like he said. It was exhilarating and spooky at the same time. It was alive as I read it. I read the whole Gospel of John before I knew what had happened and I was late for work. Oh well long story.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Without question abortion is the single worst abomination that exists. There is no crime worse than that which is perpetrated on the weakest and most defensless. And there is also no question that Christians through out the world (especially the Catholic church) have held the line on the crime of abortion.[/quote]And yet Senator Edward M. Kennedy with a lifetime score of 100 from NARAL and Planned Parenthood gets a hyooooj Catholic funeral mass complete with plugs for a communist healthcare bill that includes forcing the rest of us to pay for abortions.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Without question abortion is the single worst abomination that exists. There is no crime worse than that which is perpetrated on the weakest and most defensless. And there is also no question that Christians through out the world (especially the Catholic church) have held the line on the crime of abortion.[/quote]And yet Senator Edward M. Kennedy with a lifetime score of 100 from NARAL and Planned Parenthood gets a hyooooj Catholic funeral mass complete with plugs for a communist healthcare bill that includes forcing the rest of us to pay for abortions.
[/quote]
So you see my reasoning for the Separation of Church and State thread, not enough Catholics politicians hold their moral convictions in office, because they reason with themselves that they do not agree with it abortion, however they can’t impose that on others, because they are “supposed” to separate Church from their State position.
I don’t think largeness of his funeral had to do with him being Catholic (although it has something to do with it), but the fact that his family has a lot of money to put on the funeral.
[quote]forbes wrote:
From the hate being received in this thread, I don’t know if I should start fearing for my life…[/quote]
Haha, don’t worry about it. As long as you stay true to the Word you’ll always have those that hate you/it. I used to get frustrated about going through long explanations of evidence for belief only for someone to say, “only an idiot would believe.” All you can do is your part. God has to do the rest. [/quote]Pretty good man. Seriously. And from Quebec? If that isn’t proof positive of the faithfulness of almighty God I don’t know what is. I don’t think I can go along with your explanation of the old covenant and the church age, but, that’s alright.
[/quote]
Thanks. Technically, it’s been a couple generations since my family was from Quebec, but I figured what the heck. I used to get on websites and debate until I was frustrated that somebody wouldn’t accept my viewpoint. Now I’m just glad to be able to share God’s Word and my faith. Nobody really ever convinced me to believe. It had to come from years of questioning, searching, and then finally listening.[/quote]Ya know what’s funny? The guy who led me to the Lord did not argue with me one bit. He told me I was living in open rebellion against a holy God and would be damned for eternity if I persisted. That simple. By what I now recognize as the resurrecting power of the risen Christ, I believed him. I was 20 years old. It was like slow motion. I asked him what I should do. He told me to confess that I was fully deserving of death by His hand and only by His righteousness could I be saved, and ask Him to do it. He said that Father God who cannot lie would honor the eternal covenant made with His Son and bring me to new life in His resurrection. When I left his apartment I wasn’t even sure what had just happened to me.
I was like “did I just have some kinda religious thing or sumthin”? I took the bible he gave me and went to bed. It was late when I got back to my trailer. The next morning I woke up and started reading the Gospel of John like he said. It was exhilarating and spooky at the same time. It was alive as I read it. I read the whole Gospel of John before I knew what had happened and I was late for work. Oh well long story.
[/quote]
Very cool. My story was a bit longer. Grew up in church, but I never really believed totally. Went to about a 10 year period of lots of questioning, lots of searching, trying lots of different religions/philosophies. Finally, I became a believer at about 31 after living a year and a half in total depravation. I immediately got interested in apologetics and sharing my faith. Hopefully, I can help lead a few people in my life to the glory of God.
If Ted Kennedy had lived during the 1st century he would have been excommunicated decades ago according to 1st Corinthians 5 because Paul believed the church was precious and holy. Open flagrant sin brought about obligatory judgment and removal in the hopes of future repentance.
1st Corinthians 5
[quote]9-I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; 10-I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. 11-But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler not even to eat with such a one. 12-For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13-But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.[/quote](in a soft pleading voice) Please Chris. What is one to think? What would Paul say to Ted Kennedy being given good standing in “the Church” because of money and position. Good God, what would James say. what would they say if the explanation is “well, he’s not really in good standing, we’re just being nice to the family”? Read what Paul says. He is commanding the Corinthian church to judge those in her midst claiming the name of Christ.
How can a man living in public homosexuality and active blasphemous rejection of all that is godly be told right here in these forums by a champion of your religion that he is ok with God with a straight face? How? Is that loving him? Leading him to believe that God just… overlooks that?
I am tired of contending with you guys and people I trust are telling me it is not edifying. Honest man. What is one to think?
[quote]forbes wrote:
From the hate being received in this thread, I don’t know if I should start fearing for my life…[/quote]
Haha, don’t worry about it. As long as you stay true to the Word you’ll always have those that hate you/it. I used to get frustrated about going through long explanations of evidence for belief only for someone to say, “only an idiot would believe.” All you can do is your part. God has to do the rest. [/quote]Pretty good man. Seriously. And from Quebec? If that isn’t proof positive of the faithfulness of almighty God I don’t know what is. I don’t think I can go along with your explanation of the old covenant and the church age, but, that’s alright.
[/quote]
Thanks. Technically, it’s been a couple generations since my family was from Quebec, but I figured what the heck. I used to get on websites and debate until I was frustrated that somebody wouldn’t accept my viewpoint. Now I’m just glad to be able to share God’s Word and my faith. Nobody really ever convinced me to believe. It had to come from years of questioning, searching, and then finally listening.[/quote]Ya know what’s funny? The guy who led me to the Lord did not argue with me one bit. He told me I was living in open rebellion against a holy God and would be damned for eternity if I persisted. That simple. By what I now recognize as the resurrecting power of the risen Christ, I believed him. I was 20 years old. It was like slow motion. I asked him what I should do. He told me to confess that I was fully deserving of death by His hand and only by His righteousness could I be saved, and ask Him to do it. He said that Father God who cannot lie would honor the eternal covenant made with His Son and bring me to new life in His resurrection. When I left his apartment I wasn’t even sure what had just happened to me.
I was like “did I just have some kinda religious thing or sumthin”? I took the bible he gave me and went to bed. It was late when I got back to my trailer. The next morning I woke up and started reading the Gospel of John like he said. It was exhilarating and spooky at the same time. It was alive as I read it. I read the whole Gospel of John before I knew what had happened and I was late for work. Oh well long story.
[/quote]
And if a follower of another religion had an experience just as “enlivening”? Would you claim theirs was not true, or less true than yours, despite their equal faith and experience?
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
If Ted Kennedy had lived during the 1st century he would have been excommunicated decades ago according to 1st Corinthians 5 because Paul believed the church was precious and holy. Open flagrant sin brought about obligatory judgment and removal in the hopes of future repentance.
[/quote]
Yes, I’m sure he was excommunicated a few times (most of the time excommunication is self-inflicted, and the grace from the Eucharist doesn’t not pass onto the person, and if the person willingly does this commits sacrilege. However, as seen with St. Joseph’s hospital the Doctor was excommunicated, but Olmsted did it privately. She confessed and repented of her sins.
Where you near the man when he died? I don’t know if he died inside the Church or out, however, from what I saw, it looked as if he died inside the Church and had repented and confessed his sins before dying of brain cancer. He wasn’t given good standing in the Church because of money and position. Just because a Bishop doesn’t hold a press conference doesn’t mean the man was in good standing.
[quote]
How can a man living in public homosexuality and active blasphemous rejection of all that is godly be told right here in these forums by a champion of your religion that he is ok with God with a straight face? How? Is that loving him? Leading him to believe that God just… overlooks that?
I am tired of contending with you guys and people I trust are telling me it is not edifying. Honest man. What is one to think?[/quote]
Actually, Pat said he over looks that, not that God over looks that. However, if you have problem with Pat, I think you need to talk to him. I still am not quite sure what Pat said, I even asked him and he never replied. So, I’ll just remind myself that he’s person just like the next person.
That Catholics are sinners just like everyone else; however, you can see that ever though from inside the Church we’ve tried to destroyed it…it still stands. By the power of the Holy Ghost.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
<<< And if a follower of another religion had an experience just as “enlivening”? Would you claim theirs was not true, or less true than yours, despite their equal faith and experience?[/quote]Peter, answering the question of the temple authorities in Jerusalem about how a man was healed: Caps indicate a quotation from the OT as per the NASB translators.
[quote]8-Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, "Rulers and elders of the people, 9-if we are on trial today for a benefit done to a sick man, as to how this man has been made well, 10-let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by this name this man stands here before you in good health. 11-“He is the STONE WHICH WAS REJECTED by you, THE BUILDERS, but WHICH BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone. 12"And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.”[/quote]Jesus Himself said that no one came to the father except though Him. So to answer your question. Any experience allegedly with God outside of the authentic gospel of Christ Jesus reconciling men to the one true God is false. Or the gospel is false. He did not leave us any other post modern broad and tolerant options. He did not intend to.
@Brother Chris:
You’re evading again man. What would Paul, who had no problem naming names, have said to the mysterious standing of a man with a 50 year legislative record of abomination before God?
1st Timothy 1:19-20:
[quote]19-keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith. 20-Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, so that they will be taught not to blaspheme.[/quote] Would this Paul have left the faithful in the dark about the standing of a prominent public figure regarding the body of Christ? Or would he have said “this man made lifelong shipwreck of the faith and while we lament his godless passing, he was not one of us”. Or maybe “blessed be the exalted name of our Lord and savior, senator Kennedy made a last second deathbed confession of his well documented life of sin and went to be with Jesus”.
The one thing he would have never done was allow it to be suspected that a publicly renowned flagrant sinner be considered a member of “the most holy one true apostolic church” without further exposition. Paul tells THEM to put him out. Not wait for him to leave in some sort of mutual understanding. Hymenaeus and Alexander were DELIVERED to Satan. If you don’t see this then they are correct who are telling me that I am wasting God’s time with you, at least for now. Nobody WANTS to deal harshly with people, but that is the command.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
<<< And if a follower of another religion had an experience just as “enlivening”? Would you claim theirs was not true, or less true than yours, despite their equal faith and experience?[/quote]Peter, answering the question of the temple authorities in Jerusalem about how a man was healed: Caps indicate a quotation from the OT as per the NASB translators.
[quote]8-Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, "Rulers and elders of the people, 9-if we are on trial today for a benefit done to a sick man, as to how this man has been made well, 10-let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by this name this man stands here before you in good health. 11-“He is the STONE WHICH WAS REJECTED by you, THE BUILDERS, but WHICH BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone. 12"And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.”[/quote]Jesus Himself said that no one came to the father except though Him. So to answer your question. Any experience allegedly with God outside of the authentic gospel of Christ Jesus reconciling men to the one true God is false. Or the gospel is false. He did not leave us any other post modern broad and tolerant options. He did not intend to.
[/quote]
Ok. So your religious experience is true, and your holy book says that only your religious experiences are true. But he thinks his religious experience is true, and his holy book says only his religious experiences are true.
So do you just shout “No, I’M right!” back and forth forever?
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
<<< So do you just shout “No, I’M right!” back and forth forever?[/quote]I don’t
[/quote]
But you do. You do it calmly, and use big words, but whenever someone asks your reasoning or basis for faith, and you say “well the bible says…” its the same thing. All you ever do is repeat “I’m right I’m right I’m right.” Quoting the part of the bible that says no other religions/religious experiences are true doesn’t explain why that’s a valid belief.
So you quote the bible, and he quotes his book, both of which basically say “Only this book is right”
So do you just go back and forth calmly saying “No I’m right, you’re the one who’s spiritually dead!”?
[quote]Tiribulus wrote: @Brother Chris:
You’re evading again man. What would Paul, who had no problem naming names, have said to the mysterious standing of a man with a 50 year legislative record of abomination before God?
Would this Paul have left the faithful in the dark about the standing of a prominent public figure regarding the body of Christ? Or would he have said “this man made lifelong shipwreck of the faith and while we lament his godless passing, he was not one of us”. Or maybe “blessed be the exalted name of our Lord and savior, senator Kennedy made a last second deathbed confession of his well documented life of sin and went to be with Jesus”.
The one thing he would have never done was allow it to be suspected that a publicly renowned flagrant sinner be considered a member of “the most holy one true apostolic church” without further exposition. Paul tells THEM to put him out. Not wait for him to leave in some sort of mutual understanding. Hymenaeus and Alexander were DELIVERED to Satan. If you don’t see this then they are correct who are telling me that I am wasting God’s time with you, at least for now. Nobody WANTS to deal harshly with people, but that is the command.
[/quote]
What does someone not excommunicating Ted Kennedy have to do with the fact that the Catholic Church is still the true Church.
And, I wanted to point out some things you didn’t realise.
It doesn’t take a Bishop or Priest to declare someone is excommunicated, to be excommunicated.
Unlike Hymenae’us and Alexander, Ted Kennedy isn’t a shepherd of the Catholic Church, he’s a United States politician.
Catholics don’t believe in once saved always saved.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
<<< And if a follower of another religion had an experience just as “enlivening”? Would you claim theirs was not true, or less true than yours, despite their equal faith and experience?[/quote]Peter, answering the question of the temple authorities in Jerusalem about how a man was healed: Caps indicate a quotation from the OT as per the NASB translators.
[quote]8-Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, "Rulers and elders of the people, 9-if we are on trial today for a benefit done to a sick man, as to how this man has been made well, 10-let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by this name this man stands here before you in good health. 11-“He is the STONE WHICH WAS REJECTED by you, THE BUILDERS, but WHICH BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone. 12"And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.”[/quote]Jesus Himself said that no one came to the father except though Him. So to answer your question. Any experience allegedly with God outside of the authentic gospel of Christ Jesus reconciling men to the one true God is false. Or the gospel is false. He did not leave us any other post modern broad and tolerant options. He did not intend to.
[/quote]
The Gospel According to John, “Now Jesus did other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book…But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.”
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
<<< So do you just shout “No, I’M right!” back and forth forever?[/quote]I don’t
[/quote]
But you do. You do it calmly, and use big words, but whenever someone asks your reasoning or basis for faith, and you say “well the bible says…” its the same thing. All you ever do is repeat “I’m right I’m right I’m right.” Quoting the part of the bible that says no other religions/religious experiences are true doesn’t explain why that’s a valid belief.
So you quote the bible, and he quotes his book, both of which basically say “Only this book is right”
So do you just go back and forth calmly saying “No I’m right, you’re the one who’s spiritually dead!”?
[/quote]
See, the Bible doesn’t say that “this book is right.” The Catholic Church does, the Catholic Church in her Authority does have the ability to say that the Holy Bible is correct. To use an item to prove it’s truthfulness is circular reasoning.