I have trained now for about 8 Years with some sucess. I have tried all kinds of trainging from Heavy Duty to High Volume. They all seem to work good for a while. I seem to get overtrained real easy. Where my gains just seem to stop and almost go backwards. I have found that a 3 day a week program to work out best for me. But still find myself overtraining at about 6 monthes into the program. I just picked up a copy of Beyond Brawn and loved the info. It seems that part of my problem could have been that I took every set near or to failure. And I think I have really taxed the CNS over 8 years. Has anyone out there tried this type of Beyond Brawn training. I dont want to give up but I also dont want to feel run down all the time. I am 6’2" classic Ectomorph body type. I will post a pic later so you can see the gains that I have made. Also diet is not a issue I have studied that and have that under control. Any advice from people with similiar training expeirence would be great. The new program would be 2 days a week Mon and Thur. Major lifts such as deads squat pull-up bench and forearm with a little core work. Standard 5*5 for the major lifts taking the last set to almost failure leaving a rep or two for next time. Then going back next week and adding a 1 or 2.5 pounds to the bar. Any questions ask and I will get back. Thanks
Overtraining is a good thing, seriously. Look into properly periodizing your training so as to vary your volume, intensity (%1RM), density, tonnage lifted, and exercises.
Take a look at Thibaudeau’s new book, Supertraining, and pay close attention to how Olympic Weightlifters manage their training. Think of your training like a dam, you want to accumulate volume, and then release it. Chad Waterbury said it best, "There are many factors involved in making progress; adding weight to the bar is just one of them. In short, progressive overloading is overrated.
I have great admiration for the book Supertraining by Siff and Verkhoshanksy. Not only is it one of the best books ever written on strength and conditioning, but it also does an excellent job disputing some common weightlifting myths. One of my favorite parts of the book deals with progressive overloading. Basically, progressive overload refers to a need to constantly increase load in order to develop greater strength levels.
Remember the legend of Milo? He was the fella who carried around a calf everyday. As the calf grew and got heavier, Milo got stronger with each passing day carrying that sucker around. That’s progressive overloading. Sounds simple, huh? But check out this excerpt from the Supertraining book:
Closer examination of the Milo tale reveals an incomplete ending. Milo, being an enterprising strongman, obviously would have sought further increase by lifting progressively heavier bulls. If he had progressed very gradually, the implications are that he should have been lifting well over 500kg after a few years. Similarly, if you began your first bench press with 60kg at the age of 16, then increased the load by only one kilogram per week, you should be lifting 580kg at the age of 26 and 1100kg at the age of 36 years. [Note: That’s 2420 pounds!] That this will not happen is obvious. In other words, progressive overloading produces diminishing, and ultimately zero, returns (1).
In other words, that Milo tale might very well be a bunch of bull! I’m not saying that progressive overloading is useless and I don’t think Siff and Verkhoshansky were either. Instead, the concept isn’t as clear-cut and simple as it seems. Merely adding more weight to your barbell every session isn’t going to turn you into a strongman. It’s just not that simple."
Great point, Silles. But Brawn training isn’t about adding weight every single session for the rest of your life. It is about starting light, adding weight and/or reps for as long as you can, and then backing off and starting over again. Two steps forward, one step back. The light phases help prepare you for the heavy phases and give your system time to recover. I don’t train like this verbatim anymore, but still apply the basic concept. In fact, most programs do. ABBH for example starts with a manageable load and reps and then increases over the program.
Try leaving “1-2 reps in the hole” on every set. You should feel like you could have done more when leaving the gym. You are on the right track by focusing on the major/compound lifts.
i have used programs derived from Beyond Brawn with great results in the past. Progressive overload does work but I also agree with the other post that it will only take you so far. probably the best thing about Beyond Brawn is that it encourages hard work and listening to your body (i.e. taking a rest day when warranted). my advice would be to do a few cycles of a beyond brawn routine and then ease in to a higher volume routine using a periodized plan to prevent overtraining.
climbon
Beyond Brawn is a great book (packed with lots of useful info), but I personally found I made much better gains when I came off ‘super-abbreviated training’ and started using higher volume training. I would say check out John Berardi’s website and John’s articles on T-Nation. JB really knows what he’s talking about - I used to think I had the recovery abilities of a midget (I am an ectomorph as well) until I started applying what John teaches.
However, that’s NOT to say Beyond Brawn is no good. One thing that it puts lots of emphasis on is training using good form. Some years ago I also bought Beyond Brawn’s sister book ‘The Insider’s Tell-All Guide to Training Technique’, which is superb and, I believe, well worth the cash because it will save you getting injured, thus meaning a longer training life.
As far as abbreviated training is concerned, if you’ve got the mental power to keep a set going to REAL failure, fine. It might well be the training paradigm for you. But, as the author of Beyond Brawn points out, most people don’t until they really put their mind to it. Through doing the Beyond Brawn stuff, I learnt to get out that extra rep and another still, but when it came down to it, the more regular higher number of sets (though no more than three or four) and more frequent workouts PLUS John Berardi’s nutrition advice works better for me. That said, I know my limits and also take a week off after four weeks of training like that - so I was surprised when Bryce says he gets burned out after six months! Hell, you must be frazzled!
In conclusion, I’d say give abbreviated training a go and see if it works for you. Even if it doesn’t you’ll probably learn something along the way. But I’d also say check out John Berardi’s site, too. Putting into practice what’s there has definately helped me push my training up a level.
Progressive overload and periodization have proven themselves again and again. Going to failure on each and every set is a clear path to failure except for the drug enhanced mutant. And there is no research to dictate that you must hit muscle failure to elicit growth. A plan like “Maximal Weights” is a good example. Only 1 three week phase of the twelve weeks is dedicated to failure and beyond training.
McRoberts has it right in many respects.
Here is a pic of my progress thus far in my training journey. Let me know what u think. Thanks
I have both books on my bookshelf. It has been quite a while since I have read them so the details are a bit fuzzy but it is definitely a good and essential read for all strength athletes/enthusiasts, especially a novice. Very practical in the overall scheme, focuses on the basic lifts and organizing training in a well thought out and planned for fashion to avoid injury so training can continue year after year. Only complaint is that McRobert could have said what he needed to in a lot fewer pages than 490 something pages (Beyond Brawn). But it definitly gives a good perspective.
As mentioned, Supertraining by S and V is also a great resource but not for the faint of heart. Pretty heavy stuff.
The T-mag site is as good as any resource I have come across and I have loads of text books on the topic. As a prior college instructor I got tons of comp texts from publishers wanting me to adopt certain books for the classes I taught. And T-mag is free, practical, entertaining, and searchable.
How dare you wear the EAS hat?!?!? j/k looking good!
I’d describe my body type to be similar to yours. I’ve had good results using HST, especially in avoiding overtraining.
Bryce3, before discovering T-Nation 2 years ago, I used to workout 2/week “Brawn style”. Concerning periodization (see Rocket Lax) I followed the advice reported in two small books by Mc Robert & Kubik: “Big Arms” and “Big Bench”. This system worked well for me. After years I felt the need for something new. I believe that T-nation coaches develope new ideas concerning training not basically in contrast with Mc Robert and Kubik. If you want to try something new, I would suggest CW’s programs ABBH, ABBH2, Quattro Dynamo, Singles club etc. These programs focuse on the main lifts, they allow many recovery days per week and a periodization pattern is included.
Luca
Cycle your training volume. Go from Brawn style workouts to HST to OVT or something along those lines. I have also found that I respond better to lower volume followed by higher volume back to lower and back and again. 6 months is waaaaaay too long to be doing a routine and expecting results. Switch things up when you stop seeing results, usually around the 6-8 week mark.
Besides the “EAS” hat you seem to have some decent size. No leg shot makes everyone around here wonder what size chickens you’ve got 
Ahhhh my first post. I am currently using a Brawn approach to my training. 2 days per week Mon/Thurs.
Day 1 Deadlift 1x 5, Bench 3x5, Negative chins 3 x max and some oblique/grip work.
Day 2 Squats 1 x 20, 1 arm barbell power snatch 2 x 3, Bradford press 2 x 8 and barbell reverse grip row 3 x 5.
I’ve a previously injured shoulder so can’t really do a lot of work without pain. A long standing injury from when i followed routine of the champs in BB mags.
I can nudge the weight on the bar up every couple of weeks and am really enjoying training at this time. I would say to give Brawn a go and see how you progress.
On a side note trawl this site and DeFranco training for information - THE best sites i have hit upon period.
Brawn will suit me for a good while yet but i’m open to any other routines and advice you guys are willing to send.