Hey Jim whats going on? I hope you’re doing well. I just read through all your Beyond 531 series that are posted here on tnation (20 week program). I really liked the programs and I thought they were really well put together. I really like to train around 4x week and i know your program calls for only 3 days. So would it be a good idea if I decided to add a 4th day, no max work on that day just high rep work (12-15 reps) for few accessory lifts for calves, upper back, chest, shoulders etc.((lateral raise, inc bench, some rows) for 15-20 total sets? or would that be taking away too much from the original program? and also is there any other way of making that routine 4x week perhaps upper/lower split by just moving the lifts around? I know you hate it when people try to frankenstein your programs but I just wanted to ask and Id appreciate your help.
Btw my main goal is still to get stronger but I just wanted to know if it was possible to do it in this fashion and still get stronger on the main lifts (squat dead bench). I dont wanna add the 4th day if it would mean sacrificing strength gains.
I don’t have the answer, but I started 5/3/1 by finding these articles, so I will suggest that you buy the book for the other questions you will have going forward - my first six months were a bastardization since I didn’t have the book, I wish I had bought it sooner.
[quote]sidhu524 wrote:
Hey Jim whats going on? I hope you’re doing well. I just read through all your Beyond 531 series that are posted here on tnation (20 week program). I really liked the programs and I thought they were really well put together. I really like to train around 4x week and i know your program calls for only 3 days. So would it be a good idea if I decided to add a 4th day, no max work on that day just high rep work (12-15 reps) for few accessory lifts for calves, upper back, chest, shoulders etc.((lateral raise, inc bench, some rows) for 15-20 total sets? or would that be taking away too much from the original program? and also is there any other way of making that routine 4x week perhaps upper/lower split by just moving the lifts around? I know you hate it when people try to frankenstein your programs but I just wanted to ask and Id appreciate your help.
Btw my main goal is still to get stronger but I just wanted to know if it was possible to do it in this fashion and still get stronger on the main lifts (squat dead bench). I dont wanna add the 4th day if it would mean sacrificing strength gains.
@ Jim W - No I havent done the program yet. I was thinking about starting it in a week or so when I go back to school. So I wanted to ask if there was a way that routine could be made 4x week instead of 3x week? Either by adding a 4th day that includes high rep work (12-15 reps) on lateral raises, inc bench, back work, and some calves for 15-20 sets total?
or if there was a way to spread those 3x workouts a week into 4x week to an upper/lower split?
and I just wanted to know if this was a doable option without taking anything away from the program?
The program is written for a reason. The way it’s written, the days, the movements, the intensities: everything. I don’t understand why you would change something that has been proven to work without having tried it. The real question is why you are sabotaging your training.
I’ve given you a program that has proven to work. I suggest you first try it. THEN make changes, if needed.
What I’ve seen is the more an effective program is tweaked, the less effective the results. And the more the program is followed as originally written, the better the results.
This is especially true with Jim’s programs, which are extremely well thought out. I haven’t done the Beyond 20-week program, but the more I looked it over, the more I realized how well-planned it is. (It’s almost like rereading Shakespeare and realizing how well-thought out a single piece of dialogue was.) So if that’s what you want to do, you should follow it exactly as written.
That being said, if you really want to lift 4 days a week, you should just pick a 4-day template from the book and follow it as written for at a few cycles before even thinking of making any modifications. Not sure of your current goals/training advancement/schedule/current lifts/stress level, etc., but if the Boring But Big template makes sense for you, it works very well with a 4-day schedule.
[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
The program is written for a reason. The way it’s written, the days, the movements, the intensities: everything. I don’t understand why you would change something that has been proven to work without having tried it. The real question is why you are sabotaging your training.
I’ve given you a program that has proven to work. I suggest you first try it. THEN make changes, if needed. [/quote]
Its not necessarily trying to sabotage the program. I actually like the program and the intensity thats built into it progressing from week to week. But I usually like to train more than 3x week especially when I have the time so I was just simply asking for a way to turn that routine into 4x week thin. Either by spreading it out 4 days or by adding another day to work on some other muscles that were missed during those days. Thats all, it wasnt anything super complicated. Thanks for the help anyway.
The first part of your question - at least imho - doesn’t really need to be asked. If you want to add a day of those things, is it really changing the program? When I decide to push my prowler an extra day, or add in band pull a parts somewhere, etc…the program is not really changing. I am just doing something extra. The second part, however, is another story all together.
[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
The program is written for a reason. The way it’s written, the days, the movements, the intensities: everything. I don’t understand why you would change something that has been proven to work without having tried it. The real question is why you are sabotaging your training.
I’ve given you a program that has proven to work. I suggest you first try it. THEN make changes, if needed. [/quote]
Hi Jim.
I would love to train with this program after im done with my current SVR cycle.
But as you on the quote above, even the days are written for a reason.
I could follow everything to a t (and will), except the fact that my training days may vary due to my working schedule. So there might be an extra day of here and there during 20 weeks.
So am still good to go even if one cycle might take me little over 5 weeks?
Of course im willing to but 110% on the line for working hard and doing things as written, but my training days I cant always control.
I’m 99% sure the article says Jim won’t endorse any changes to the program. Yet here we are asking for exactly that… .
If I wanted to train 4 days per week and refused to take the advice of not doing it, what I would do is move the day that occurs on Day 1 of week 2 and move it into Day 4 of week 1. Tricky, I know…
… Bit the real tricky part is taking responsibility for your decision and not blaming the program if you don’t get the results you think you’re going to get by your improvement