Better Physique: Bruce Lee or Arnold?

Off Topic
61

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
the ability to make a 300lb punching bag hit the ceiling with one side kick [/quote]

Bullshit, I think theres a lot more fol lore/legend surround bruce lee, kinda like the chuck norris phenomenon but less philosophical and less established.[/quote]

yes, its all legend, like his one arm 2 finger pushups, oh wait, you can view it on youtube. guess it isn’t a legend after all. is it.[/quote]

Did I ever say that it was ALL legend, dummy?

NO, I didn’t I picked the one that I KNEW was BULLSHIT. I didn’t even pick the 30 min flag cause that almost seems possible. I’m looking to physics to help persuade my decision. A 160lb dude kicks a 300lb bag and makes it hit the cieling?

Where is THAT youtube video? Where is the youtube video for the 30 minute flag? If it sounds ridiculous and there is no video I will not accept it

Out of all the magical feats listed you picked one and then generalize, atta guy…[/quote]

dummy??? I don’t remember calling you names, dipshit. I just love people that say things online, they wouldn’t dare say in real life, especially to me. I just love it. Everything written about Bruce lee is accurate. just about every single thing is on video of some sort. just do some research.[/quote]

I had to make the first move, what you were saying was, well…dumb. Big guy with little guy syndrome?

i’m still stuck on the 300lb bag into the cieling, that is bs

62

[quote]tom63 wrote:
Big and tipped beats skinny and ripped any day . Bruce Lee was a great martial artist, but ripped 135 lb guys are a penny a dozen.[/quote]

Idiom fail.

63

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
the ability to make a 300lb punching bag hit the ceiling with one side kick [/quote]

Bullshit, I think theres a lot more fol lore/legend surround bruce lee, kinda like the chuck norris phenomenon but less philosophical and less established.[/quote]

yes, its all legend, like his one arm 2 finger pushups, oh wait, you can view it on youtube. guess it isn’t a legend after all. is it.[/quote]

Did I ever say that it was ALL legend, dummy?

NO, I didn’t I picked the one that I KNEW was BULLSHIT. I didn’t even pick the 30 min flag cause that almost seems possible. I’m looking to physics to help persuade my decision. A 160lb dude kicks a 300lb bag and makes it hit the cieling?

Where is THAT youtube video? Where is the youtube video for the 30 minute flag? If it sounds ridiculous and there is no video I will not accept it

Out of all the magical feats listed you picked one and then generalize, atta guy…[/quote]

I’m just curious. Do you believe in God?[/quote]

Thanks for asking, Do I strike you as someone who believes in god or not?

Fuck no I don’t believe in god/a spirit, do you?[/quote]

I don’t want to derail this thread again. My point is that your refusal to believe some of Bruce Lee’s more amazing feats isn’t proof at all that they aren’t possible. I laugh at looking to physics to back you up. If you look to physics for answers you’ll find that the human body is physically capable of doing much more outlandish shit than making a 300lb punching bag hit the ceiling.

If you’re so confident it’s impossible, why don’t you use physics instead of your own uninformed opinion to show us Lee’s kicking ability is inaccurately described? And don’t give me this “the burden of proof lies with the one making the claim” bullshit. The burden of proof lies with the one demanding it.[/quote]

First of all I’m going to need the height of the ceiling, exact limb lengths, the weight of his limbs, the flooring material (for every action there is a equal/opposite reaction you know) also the material the bag was made of and filled with if I am to actually do this…

It’s all going to come down to something like “he would have to be accelerating his leg at xxx ft/seconds squared” to which ANYONE can say yea, THATS POSSIBLE, and I would agree like you said the human body can do crazy things. Theres no reason that someone can’t jump 30ft straight up, why not?

But is it PLAUSIBLE? no…Did he actually do it? no. This reminds me of the legends of strongmen of the late 1800’s.

So you believe in god then?[/quote]

Excuses, excuses.

Height of the ceiling: 8’, which means that the actual hook the bag hangs and pivots from is more like 7’8" off the ground. The top of the bag itself would then sit an additional 16" below that. The bag itself is approximately 5’ tall.

Limb length: Lee was 5’7", 145lbs and didn’t look to have abnormally-long legs by any means. I think with this information you could make a reasonable assumption of what his leg length/weight is. I wouldn’t hold it against you if you rounded up or down a pound/inch or two to better prop up your argument.

Flooring material: concrete slab, reinforced by rebar, approximately 6" deep ( a driveway or garage floor, basically)

Punching bag materials: made out of leather (about 1/8" thick) and filled with coarse sand.

Assume that this is performed at sea level and indoors. Assume that as Lee “glides” toward the bag he is moving at 5mph. Assume that Lee has a size 8 foot and is bare foot. Assume that the apparatus attaching the bag to the ceiling weighs 1 pound and that the chains the bag hangs on weigh an additional 7lbs. Assume that Lee’s leg is striking the bag at an angle parallel to the floor and perfectly perpendicular to the bag.

Have at it, pal. Prove me wrong.

64

bruce lee

arnold got his build training very hard… with the help of drugs…

bruce lee got his build training very hard… with no drugs…

65

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
the ability to make a 300lb punching bag hit the ceiling with one side kick [/quote]

Bullshit, I think theres a lot more fol lore/legend surround bruce lee, kinda like the chuck norris phenomenon but less philosophical and less established.[/quote]

yes, its all legend, like his one arm 2 finger pushups, oh wait, you can view it on youtube. guess it isn’t a legend after all. is it.[/quote]

Did I ever say that it was ALL legend, dummy?

NO, I didn’t I picked the one that I KNEW was BULLSHIT. I didn’t even pick the 30 min flag cause that almost seems possible. I’m looking to physics to help persuade my decision. A 160lb dude kicks a 300lb bag and makes it hit the cieling?

Where is THAT youtube video? Where is the youtube video for the 30 minute flag? If it sounds ridiculous and there is no video I will not accept it

Out of all the magical feats listed you picked one and then generalize, atta guy…[/quote]

I’m just curious. Do you believe in God?[/quote]

Thanks for asking, Do I strike you as someone who believes in god or not?

Fuck no I don’t believe in god/a spirit, do you?[/quote]

I don’t want to derail this thread again. My point is that your refusal to believe some of Bruce Lee’s more amazing feats isn’t proof at all that they aren’t possible. I laugh at looking to physics to back you up. If you look to physics for answers you’ll find that the human body is physically capable of doing much more outlandish shit than making a 300lb punching bag hit the ceiling.

If you’re so confident it’s impossible, why don’t you use physics instead of your own uninformed opinion to show us Lee’s kicking ability is inaccurately described? And don’t give me this “the burden of proof lies with the one making the claim” bullshit. The burden of proof lies with the one demanding it.[/quote]

First of all I’m going to need the height of the ceiling, exact limb lengths, the weight of his limbs, the flooring material (for every action there is a equal/opposite reaction you know) also the material the bag was made of and filled with if I am to actually do this…

It’s all going to come down to something like “he would have to be accelerating his leg at xxx ft/seconds squared” to which ANYONE can say yea, THATS POSSIBLE, and I would agree like you said the human body can do crazy things. Theres no reason that someone can’t jump 30ft straight up, why not?

But is it PLAUSIBLE? no…Did he actually do it? no. This reminds me of the legends of strongmen of the late 1800’s.

So you believe in god then?[/quote]

Here’s a video of a student of his trying out some sidekicks on a 300lb bag. He’s making it swing significantly enough to the point where I wouldn’t think it’s unreasonable at all for someone like Lee, who is obviously stronger, faster and more powerful than his student, to make it hit the ceiling. I would say that this video alone moves the claim about the 300lb bag out of the realm of implausibility.

Furthermore, according to one of Lee’s closest friends, Bob Wall, Lee could routinely do it and Wall and many, many others have witnessed it. Wall also claims to have videos of it. I’ll look for the video and in the meantime you can use your extensive knowledge of physics to prove me wrong.

edit: fuck, forgot the video. Here it is.

66

Last time I checked, breaking heavy bags with kicks was not a regulated sport. I don’t know what Arnold’s numbers were but I do know that he competed in strongman and had big muscles so he had to have been strong by universal, widely appreciated standards (this is what counts). When you take out the fluff and feathers, Lee’s feats are mostly stuff that anyone can do with some practice, like the two finger push-ups which are not really that impressive. I’m far more impressed with a 400 bench for a single, which I’m sure Arnold was able to do in his prime.

67

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
the ability to make a 300lb punching bag hit the ceiling with one side kick [/quote]

Bullshit, I think theres a lot more fol lore/legend surround bruce lee, kinda like the chuck norris phenomenon but less philosophical and less established.[/quote]

yes, its all legend, like his one arm 2 finger pushups, oh wait, you can view it on youtube. guess it isn’t a legend after all. is it.[/quote]

Did I ever say that it was ALL legend, dummy?

NO, I didn’t I picked the one that I KNEW was BULLSHIT. I didn’t even pick the 30 min flag cause that almost seems possible. I’m looking to physics to help persuade my decision. A 160lb dude kicks a 300lb bag and makes it hit the cieling?

Where is THAT youtube video? Where is the youtube video for the 30 minute flag? If it sounds ridiculous and there is no video I will not accept it

Out of all the magical feats listed you picked one and then generalize, atta guy…[/quote]

I’m just curious. Do you believe in God?[/quote]

Thanks for asking, Do I strike you as someone who believes in god or not?

Fuck no I don’t believe in god/a spirit, do you?[/quote]

I don’t want to derail this thread again. My point is that your refusal to believe some of Bruce Lee’s more amazing feats isn’t proof at all that they aren’t possible. I laugh at looking to physics to back you up. If you look to physics for answers you’ll find that the human body is physically capable of doing much more outlandish shit than making a 300lb punching bag hit the ceiling.

If you’re so confident it’s impossible, why don’t you use physics instead of your own uninformed opinion to show us Lee’s kicking ability is inaccurately described? And don’t give me this “the burden of proof lies with the one making the claim” bullshit. The burden of proof lies with the one demanding it.[/quote]

First of all I’m going to need the height of the ceiling, exact limb lengths, the weight of his limbs, the flooring material (for every action there is a equal/opposite reaction you know) also the material the bag was made of and filled with if I am to actually do this…

It’s all going to come down to something like “he would have to be accelerating his leg at xxx ft/seconds squared” to which ANYONE can say yea, THATS POSSIBLE, and I would agree like you said the human body can do crazy things. Theres no reason that someone can’t jump 30ft straight up, why not?

But is it PLAUSIBLE? no…Did he actually do it? no. This reminds me of the legends of strongmen of the late 1800’s.

So you believe in god then?[/quote]

Excuses, excuses.

Height of the ceiling: 8’, which means that the actual hook the bag hangs and pivots from is more like 7’8" off the ground. The top of the bag itself would then sit an additional 16" below that. The bag itself is approximately 5’ tall.

Limb length: Lee was 5’7", 145lbs and didn’t look to have abnormally-long legs by any means. I think with this information you could make a reasonable assumption of what his leg length/weight is. I wouldn’t hold it against you if you rounded up or down a pound/inch or two to better prop up your argument.

Flooring material: concrete slab, reinforced by rebar, approximately 6" deep ( a driveway or garage floor, basically)

Punching bag materials: made out of leather (about 1/8" thick) and filled with coarse sand.

Assume that this is performed at sea level and indoors. Assume that as Lee “glides” toward the bag he is moving at 5mph. Assume that Lee has a size 8 foot and is bare foot. Assume that the apparatus attaching the bag to the ceiling weighs 1 pound and that the chains the bag hangs on weigh an additional 7lbs. Assume that Lee’s leg is striking the bag at an angle parallel to the floor and perfectly perpendicular to the bag.

Have at it, pal. Prove me wrong.

[/quote]

Sure thing buddy.

Problem is that now since you have described the situation enough, I am no longer impressed. Much less force is required to propel the bag around the pivot point (the hanger) than would be required to lift the bag straight up vertically with a kick…but my brain is craving some problem solving and I’ll see what I can do :wink:

but all these little weiner feats of “strength/skill” are moot as shit and not even that impressive. It’s kinda like when someone makes up some very obscure world record attempt just to get their name in the book

Oh, and Arnold wins by a long shot…didn’t he win Mr.Olympia a time or two???

68

[quote]Simon Adebisi wrote:

[quote]tom63 wrote:
Big and tipped beats skinny and ripped any day . Bruce Lee was a great martial artist, but ripped 135 lb guys are a penny a dozen.[/quote]

Idiom fail.[/quote]

Wrong. I’ve been ripped at 135-150. It’s not hard . Getting bigger and getting in the same shape is much more difficult
.

Arnold won the Olympia 5,6 times
. Bruce lee was a skinny guy. Some of you fellas are retarded .

69

[quote]tom63 wrote:

[quote]Simon Adebisi wrote:

[quote]tom63 wrote:
Big and tipped beats skinny and ripped any day . Bruce Lee was a great martial artist, but ripped 135 lb guys are a penny a dozen.[/quote]

Idiom fail.[/quote]

Wrong. I’ve been ripped at 135-150. It’s not hard . Getting bigger and getting in the same shape is much more difficult
.

Arnold won the Olympia 5,6 times
. Bruce lee was a skinny guy. Some of you fellas are retarded .[/quote]

I think the “FAIL” was when you said “penny a dozen” as opposed to “dime a dozen” which is the more common way of saying it. HOWEVER, “penny a dozen” really drives home the point, I wonder if thats what you meant?

70

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:

[quote]Nards wrote:

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:

[quote]Nards wrote:

[quote]Blaze_108 wrote:

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:

[quote]Hallowed wrote:
What a physique can do… Arnolds could pick up hella heavy shit.[/quote]

When you’re a famous movie star, you get to pay people to lift heavy shit for you.

Hella nullifies your argumentz.[/quote]

That’s irrelevant. We’re talking about what they could do, not what you can pay someone to do. By that argument, Bill Gates has the most impressive physique because he can hire the most shit done.[/quote]

[/quote]

The Nardsian school of thought. Take notes, children.[/quote]

I don’t understand what you’re getting at.[/quote]

I’m telling others to learn to read between the lines, especially when reading an outrageous statement like the one I made.[/quote]

OOps, sorry…I didn’t see your post nestled in the middle of all that quotestorm.

71

[quote]tom63 wrote:

[quote]Simon Adebisi wrote:

[quote]tom63 wrote:
Big and tipped beats skinny and ripped any day . Bruce Lee was a great martial artist, but ripped 135 lb guys are a penny a dozen.[/quote]

Idiom fail.[/quote]

Wrong. I’ve been ripped at 135-150. It’s not hard . Getting bigger and getting in the same shape is much more difficult
.

Arnold won the Olympia 5,6 times
. Bruce lee was a skinny guy. Some of you fellas are retarded .[/quote]

Look, obviously Arnold was much bigger and more developed, but I think Lee in his best physical shape was more than just skinny. And he was also more than 135-150. He was more like 165-170 at his best. Not his best fighting size though. Granted, even at 5’7" that’s still sounds pretty skinny.

But when you take into account what I assume was an almost non-existent body fat level, he was pretty developed for someone that size and I think if you look at some shots of him in “Enter the Dragon” his muscular development in those scenes looks about as defined as Arnold in his heyday, albeit on a much smaller scale.

And that takes into account something else: Lee bulked up to 165-170 and looked shredded. Arnold had to drop weight to get a comparable level of definition. Essentially, if Lee were a bodybuilder, even in less-than contest-ready shape he’s in excellent condition. Can you imagine how great his physique would look if he spent more time putting on size with that kind of definition? He could easily have won some major under-200 shows back then.

72

We can look at the 300lb bag kick problem by estimating energy. Let mass of bag be 150kg and length be 2m. The mid point of the bag will have to travel up 1m if the top of the ceil is about the same as top of bag. PE=MGH= 101501=1500J. I’d imagine this situation is similar to the amount of power required for a 300 pound man to vertical jump 1 meter. But the punching bag is probably soft and absorbs some of the energy making this feat even harder. There are probably other factors I’m not aware of. So far it seems unlikely, but it is not multitudes above possibility. Then again, vertical jump is probably not a fair substitute for kick.

[quote]Alffi wrote:
Last time I checked, breaking heavy bags with kicks was not a regulated sport. I don’t know what Arnold’s numbers were but I do know that he competed in strongman and had big muscles so he had to have been strong by universal, widely appreciated standards (this is what counts). When you take out the fluff and feathers, Lee’s feats are mostly stuff that anyone can do with some practice, like the two finger push-ups which are not really that impressive. I’m far more impressed with a 400 bench for a single, which I’m sure Arnold was able to do in his prime. [/quote]

Now you are just being dumb. 400lb bench is not even 2x body weight for arnold. The one arm pushup is about the same as dumbbell benching 0.7x bodyweight, only much more stabilization is involved considering that it is unilateral. Usually people who train with 0.7x bw db bench can bench around 2x bw with barbell. Also, leg drive and decrease range of motion is possible for 400lb bench (especially with big arch), while the pushup on 2 fingers actually increased the range of motion. Not only that, 2 fingers is incredibly unstable, requiring even more balance and core stability. It’s not exactly easy to transfer all the power of the triceps and chest through the 2 fingers. Also, you failed to consider the inhuman strength of his fingers. My fingers feel tired after doing a few push ups on all 10 finger tips. 5x that pressure is insanely brutal.

73

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

Look, obviously Arnold was much bigger and more developed, but I think Lee in his best physical shape was more than just skinny. And he was also more than 135-150. He was more like 165-170 at his best. Not his best fighting size though. Granted, even at 5’7" that’s still sounds pretty skinny.

[/quote]

5’7" and 165lb is 25.8 on the BMI scale, technically overweight. Being overweight at ~5% bodyfat is not exactly skinny.

74

[quote]cct wrote:
We can look at the 300lb bag kick problem by estimating energy. Let mass of bag be 150kg and length be 2m. The mid point of the bag will have to travel up 1m if the top of the ceil is about the same as top of bag. PE=MGH= 101501=1500J. I’d imagine this situation is similar to the amount of power required for a 300 pound man to vertical jump 1 meter. But the punching bag is probably soft and absorbs some of the energy making this feat even harder. There are probably other factors I’m not aware of. So far it seems unlikely, but it is not multitudes above possibility. Then again, vertical jump is probably not a fair substitute for kick.
[/quote]

I was considering taking the work energy approach, but the impace of hit foot on the bag will pose the biggest challenge. Luckily I still have my books!

75

A past thread here has his weight at app 135 lbs, a weight I recall as a kid . He wasn’t going to win any major bodybuilding show at that weight .

He was s great teacher at what he did, but he wasn’t superman . As for physique , that’s a completely different ball game from martial artist .

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]tom63 wrote:

[quote]Simon Adebisi wrote:

[quote]tom63 wrote:
Big and tipped beats skinny and ripped any day . Bruce Lee was a great martial artist, but ripped 135 lb guys are a penny a dozen.[/quote]

Idiom fail.[/quote]

Wrong. I’ve been ripped at 135-150. It’s not hard . Getting bigger and getting in the same shape is much more difficult
.

Arnold won the Olympia 5,6 times
. Bruce lee was a skinny guy. Some of you fellas are retarded .[/quote]

Look, obviously Arnold was much bigger and more developed, but I think Lee in his best physical shape was more than just skinny. And he was also more than 135-150. He was more like 165-170 at his best. Not his best fighting size though. Granted, even at 5’7" that’s still sounds pretty skinny.

But when you take into account what I assume was an almost non-existent body fat level, he was pretty developed for someone that size and I think if you look at some shots of him in “Enter the Dragon” his muscular development in those scenes looks about as defined as Arnold in his heyday, albeit on a much smaller scale.

And that takes into account something else: Lee bulked up to 165-170 and looked shredded. Arnold had to drop weight to get a comparable level of definition. Essentially, if Lee were a bodybuilder, even in less-than contest-ready shape he’s in excellent condition. Can you imagine how great his physique would look if he spent more time putting on size with that kind of definition? He could easily have won some major under-200 shows back then.[/quote]

76

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

[quote]tom63 wrote:

[quote]Simon Adebisi wrote:

[quote]tom63 wrote:
Big and tipped beats skinny and ripped any day . Bruce Lee was a great martial artist, but ripped 135 lb guys are a penny a dozen.[/quote]

Idiom fail.[/quote]

Wrong. I’ve been ripped at 135-150. It’s not hard . Getting bigger and getting in the same shape is much more difficult
.

Arnold won the Olympia 5,6 times
. Bruce lee was a skinny guy. Some of you fellas are retarded .[/quote]

I think the “FAIL” was when you said “penny a dozen” as opposed to “dime a dozen” which is the more common way of saying it. HOWEVER, “penny a dozen” really drives home the point, I wonder if thats what you meant?[/quote]

More common way of saying it?
There are only two ways to say it, right and wrong.
Penny a dozen is the latter of the choices.

77

[quote]Simon Adebisi wrote:

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

[quote]tom63 wrote:

[quote]Simon Adebisi wrote:

[quote]tom63 wrote:
Big and tipped beats skinny and ripped any day . Bruce Lee was a great martial artist, but ripped 135 lb guys are a penny a dozen.[/quote]

Idiom fail.[/quote]

Wrong. I’ve been ripped at 135-150. It’s not hard . Getting bigger and getting in the same shape is much more difficult
.

Arnold won the Olympia 5,6 times
. Bruce lee was a skinny guy. Some of you fellas are retarded .[/quote]

I think the “FAIL” was when you said “penny a dozen” as opposed to “dime a dozen” which is the more common way of saying it. HOWEVER, “penny a dozen” really drives home the point, I wonder if thats what you meant?[/quote]

More common way of saying it?
There are only two ways to say it, right and wrong.
Penny a dozen is the latter of the choices.[/quote]

Y U so serial BRAH?

nothing wrong with tweaking common sayings to add your own little spin if it makes sense.

like instead of saying “I’m gonna have a beer or two” I’ll say “I’m gonna have a beer or three”

78

SERIAL

Y U SO UUUUUUUUUUUUU?

79

This thread sucks.

Everyone know GSP has a better physique and would wipe the floor with Lee and Arnold

80

I also post in a martial arts forum, can’t describe how many of these threads have descended into petty BS lol.

Fwiw Lee did compete in a bodybuilding show or two.
There is zero footage of Lee sparring with a non compliant partner/fighting
There is no evidence of Lee competing in any martial art
Lee was not a ‘natty’ there are a few writings, including most notably his wife’s book referencing Lee’s use of PEDs.

As for pysique well, arnold, he looks great and is one of the iconic figures of BB IMO.

I’m not giving my official vote to arnie till I know what he can zercher though.