I don’t post in this forum, but I’ve been drinking.
My step-dad and mom got married 29 years ago. Things weren’t always great between them, but I do know one thing. He loves my mom, and he loves me. Have things always been sunshine and rainbows? Nope. But I have a better relationship with my step-dad than I do with my biological father. I’m the person I am because of him and my mom. He’s my dad. And he’s the most alpha dude I know (which isn’t necessarilly the best thing…)
I agree that you should work on yourself before getting into a serious relationship… but there are several ‘guys’ posting in this thread that are putting women on pedestals that are so high that they don’t feel worthy of a good woman until they have their shit together (beta). But by the time you make it to ‘having your shit together’, I have a feeling that most women will think you’re a fucking weirdo. At least the women I know would think you’re pretty damn weird.
I also agree that the whole alpha/beta thing is something that guys do because:
a. They’re in the beta closet and hate themselves because of it
b. see point a.
Get out and live life. Bang chicks. Get hurt. Make mistakes. That’s how you learn. Otherwise, you’re going to find yourself being
edit - it appears whiskey impedes my ability to imbed a picture. But you get my drift.
Looking back on my 20’s, my angriest and most irritable times were when I lacked female company. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: I can’t think of much more that makes a man angrier (and weirder) than lack of female company. And actually, the womanless men I’ve come across in my life, there is a seeming uneasiness that I could sense about them. [/quote]
The more I think about this, the more I realize that it isn’t the actual sex that matters, its the validation. I know I was happiest and coolest/calmest at a time when I was around many girls on a daily basis who I knew liked me (sexually). I wasn’t having sex really at all during that time. Contrast that with the shittiest part of my life when I was with a girl who didn’t really “want” me but we were boning at least once a day.
I think it boils down to the fact that men need to know that women want to fuck them. It is the most primal way of knowing that they are worth something to the world. The actual fucking doesn’t even need to be a factor.
[quote]Lift or die wrote:
Do you want me to share a few stories? Is it too hard to believe that a man would turn down that short term pleasure for long term security?[/quote]
I’m sorry, but what?
How does that “short term pleasure” diminish his “long term security”? What is this “long term security” that you’re talking about anyway?[/quote]
Marriage loss of assets if divorced.[/quote]
How does avoiding premarital sex help with that? I would think avoiding marriage, sex or not, would prevent that from becoming a problem.
Firstly, again, what does this have to do with avoiding premarital sex and its relation to long term stability?
But there are tradeoffs with many things. The time you spend with one thing is time you don’t spend on something else. That said, the time you spend developing social skills, with men or women, can be time well spent. Just because you don’t see the value in a relationship (while not in a relationship), doesn’t mean there isn’t value from it. I’ve had relationships that enabled me to grow emotionally and intellectually, and even helped set me on the path to making several positive financial changes.
Yes, there are time sucking, energy sucking relationships out there… but that’s not every single one of them.
The only benefit you see from a relationship is a child?
[quote]As well I take into consideration datability. How attractive, intelligent, and emotionally (to list a few traits) stable are the women on the current dating market place… me personally based on what I evaluate my personal worth to be feel as if I am not getting a good return on investment.
I could go on but for me personally I feel as if I am not getting a good return on my time investment when engaging in relationships.[/quote]
How attractive, intelligent, and emotionally stable are you, yourself? Are you sure your personal worth isn’t inflated?
Secondly, how does working on yourself actually help this situation? How will improving yourself improve your “return on investment”? Wouldn’t it make more sense instead to spend time learning how to get more out of a relationship with less effort put in?
That’s fine, but it’s probably because you’re not at a point where you’re attracting higher quality women. It probably looks dismal because the high quality women are pursuing or involved with men that are “better” than you.
There are a number of smart, single, attractive career women in large cities who spent much of their time focusing on self-improvement that are now looking to date.
I would suggest that the problem isn’t the “dating market”, but rather your current inability to find and attract the right women.[/quote]
Also, and this is WORTH mentioning: Sex is a skill. If you spend all your time accumulating assets, building your body into specimen of kinetic perfection, etc… and FINALLY decide to attract a woman, and you succeed… but have the sexual skill set of a 14 year old, your lady will be LESS than impressed. Just sayin’…
[quote]Lift or die wrote:
Do you want me to share a few stories? Is it too hard to believe that a man would turn down that short term pleasure for long term security?[/quote]
I’m sorry, but what?
How does that “short term pleasure” diminish his “long term security”? What is this “long term security” that you’re talking about anyway?[/quote]
Marriage loss of assets if divorced.[/quote]
How does avoiding premarital sex help with that? I would think avoiding marriage, sex or not, would prevent that from becoming a problem.
Firstly, again, what does this have to do with avoiding premarital sex and its relation to long term stability?
But there are tradeoffs with many things. The time you spend with one thing is time you don’t spend on something else. That said, the time you spend developing social skills, with men or women, can be time well spent. Just because you don’t see the value in a relationship (while not in a relationship), doesn’t mean there isn’t value from it. I’ve had relationships that enabled me to grow emotionally and intellectually, and even helped set me on the path to making several positive financial changes.
Yes, there are time sucking, energy sucking relationships out there… but that’s not every single one of them.
The only benefit you see from a relationship is a child?
[quote]As well I take into consideration datability. How attractive, intelligent, and emotionally (to list a few traits) stable are the women on the current dating market place… me personally based on what I evaluate my personal worth to be feel as if I am not getting a good return on investment.
I could go on but for me personally I feel as if I am not getting a good return on my time investment when engaging in relationships.[/quote]
How attractive, intelligent, and emotionally stable are you, yourself? Are you sure your personal worth isn’t inflated?
Secondly, how does working on yourself actually help this situation? How will improving yourself improve your “return on investment”? Wouldn’t it make more sense instead to spend time learning how to get more out of a relationship with less effort put in?
That’s fine, but it’s probably because you’re not at a point where you’re attracting higher quality women. It probably looks dismal because the high quality women are pursuing or involved with men that are “better” than you.
There are a number of smart, single, attractive career women in large cities who spent much of their time focusing on self-improvement that are now looking to date.
I would suggest that the problem isn’t the “dating market”, but rather your current inability to find and attract the right women.[/quote]
Also, and this is WORTH mentioning: Sex is a skill. If you spend all your time accumulating assets, building your body into specimen of kinetic perfection, etc… and FINALLY decide to attract a woman, and you succeed… but have the sexual skill set of a 14 year old, your lady will be LESS than impressed. Just sayin’…[/quote]
Unless you hold out for a woman who is also saving herself as well, I suppose. Then you can discover the whole thing together. Kind of like marrying your high school sweetheart, only in your 30’s. As orion pointed out, there are whole societies that operate this way.
Although in the context of those cultures there is a value structure and social validation to support abstinence. It’s a normal, well adjusted behaviour. In our culture, after a certain age and in the absence of any support structure, it’s more likely a sign of poor social integration (not that I think promiscuity in either gender is especially healthy in most cases).
[quote]Lift or die wrote:
Do you want me to share a few stories? Is it too hard to believe that a man would turn down that short term pleasure for long term security?[/quote]
I’m sorry, but what?
How does that “short term pleasure” diminish his “long term security”? What is this “long term security” that you’re talking about anyway?[/quote]
Marriage loss of assets if divorced.[/quote]
How does avoiding premarital sex help with that? I would think avoiding marriage, sex or not, would prevent that from becoming a problem.
Firstly, again, what does this have to do with avoiding premarital sex and its relation to long term stability?
But there are tradeoffs with many things. The time you spend with one thing is time you don’t spend on something else. That said, the time you spend developing social skills, with men or women, can be time well spent. Just because you don’t see the value in a relationship (while not in a relationship), doesn’t mean there isn’t value from it. I’ve had relationships that enabled me to grow emotionally and intellectually, and even helped set me on the path to making several positive financial changes.
Yes, there are time sucking, energy sucking relationships out there… but that’s not every single one of them.
The only benefit you see from a relationship is a child?
[quote]As well I take into consideration datability. How attractive, intelligent, and emotionally (to list a few traits) stable are the women on the current dating market place… me personally based on what I evaluate my personal worth to be feel as if I am not getting a good return on investment.
I could go on but for me personally I feel as if I am not getting a good return on my time investment when engaging in relationships.[/quote]
How attractive, intelligent, and emotionally stable are you, yourself? Are you sure your personal worth isn’t inflated?
Secondly, how does working on yourself actually help this situation? How will improving yourself improve your “return on investment”? Wouldn’t it make more sense instead to spend time learning how to get more out of a relationship with less effort put in?
That’s fine, but it’s probably because you’re not at a point where you’re attracting higher quality women. It probably looks dismal because the high quality women are pursuing or involved with men that are “better” than you.
There are a number of smart, single, attractive career women in large cities who spent much of their time focusing on self-improvement that are now looking to date.
I would suggest that the problem isn’t the “dating market”, but rather your current inability to find and attract the right women.[/quote]
Also, and this is WORTH mentioning: Sex is a skill. If you spend all your time accumulating assets, building your body into specimen of kinetic perfection, etc… and FINALLY decide to attract a woman, and you succeed… but have the sexual skill set of a 14 year old, your lady will be LESS than impressed. Just sayin’…[/quote]
Unless you hold out for a woman who is also saving herself as well, I suppose. Then you can discover the whole thing together. Kind of like marrying your high school sweetheart, only in your 30’s. As orion pointed out, there are whole societies that operate this way.
Although in the context of those cultures there is a value structure and social validation to support abstinence. It’s a normal, well adjusted behaviour. In our culture, after a certain age and in the absence of any support structure, it’s more likely a sign of poor social integration (not that I think promiscuity in either gender is especially healthy in most cases).
FTR, I am not endorsing this course of action.[/quote]
I don’t think those societies wait until their 30s. If abstinence is the deal you usually get married at a young age. Maybe China and India wait a little longer but I’m talking out my ass because I don’t really know those cultures. Mormons go early.
[quote]Lift or die wrote:
Do you want me to share a few stories? Is it too hard to believe that a man would turn down that short term pleasure for long term security?[/quote]
I’m sorry, but what?
How does that “short term pleasure” diminish his “long term security”? What is this “long term security” that you’re talking about anyway?[/quote]
Marriage loss of assets if divorced.[/quote]
How does avoiding premarital sex help with that? I would think avoiding marriage, sex or not, would prevent that from becoming a problem.
Firstly, again, what does this have to do with avoiding premarital sex and its relation to long term stability?
But there are tradeoffs with many things. The time you spend with one thing is time you don’t spend on something else. That said, the time you spend developing social skills, with men or women, can be time well spent. Just because you don’t see the value in a relationship (while not in a relationship), doesn’t mean there isn’t value from it. I’ve had relationships that enabled me to grow emotionally and intellectually, and even helped set me on the path to making several positive financial changes.
Yes, there are time sucking, energy sucking relationships out there… but that’s not every single one of them.
The only benefit you see from a relationship is a child?
[quote]As well I take into consideration datability. How attractive, intelligent, and emotionally (to list a few traits) stable are the women on the current dating market place… me personally based on what I evaluate my personal worth to be feel as if I am not getting a good return on investment.
I could go on but for me personally I feel as if I am not getting a good return on my time investment when engaging in relationships.[/quote]
How attractive, intelligent, and emotionally stable are you, yourself? Are you sure your personal worth isn’t inflated?
Secondly, how does working on yourself actually help this situation? How will improving yourself improve your “return on investment”? Wouldn’t it make more sense instead to spend time learning how to get more out of a relationship with less effort put in?
That’s fine, but it’s probably because you’re not at a point where you’re attracting higher quality women. It probably looks dismal because the high quality women are pursuing or involved with men that are “better” than you.
There are a number of smart, single, attractive career women in large cities who spent much of their time focusing on self-improvement that are now looking to date.
I would suggest that the problem isn’t the “dating market”, but rather your current inability to find and attract the right women.[/quote]
Also, and this is WORTH mentioning: Sex is a skill. If you spend all your time accumulating assets, building your body into specimen of kinetic perfection, etc… and FINALLY decide to attract a woman, and you succeed… but have the sexual skill set of a 14 year old, your lady will be LESS than impressed. Just sayin’…[/quote]
Unless you hold out for a woman who is also saving herself as well, I suppose. Then you can discover the whole thing together. Kind of like marrying your high school sweetheart, only in your 30’s. As orion pointed out, there are whole societies that operate this way.
Although in the context of those cultures there is a value structure and social validation to support abstinence. It’s a normal, well adjusted behaviour. In our culture, after a certain age and in the absence of any support structure, it’s more likely a sign of poor social integration (not that I think promiscuity in either gender is especially healthy in most cases).
FTR, I am not endorsing this course of action.[/quote]
I don’t think those societies wait until their 30s. If abstinence is the deal you usually get married at a young age. Maybe China and India wait a little longer but I’m talking out my ass because I don’t really know those cultures. Mormons go early.
[/quote]
[quote]Lift or die wrote:
Do you want me to share a few stories? Is it too hard to believe that a man would turn down that short term pleasure for long term security?[/quote]
I’m sorry, but what?
How does that “short term pleasure” diminish his “long term security”? What is this “long term security” that you’re talking about anyway?[/quote]
Marriage loss of assets if divorced.[/quote]
How does avoiding premarital sex help with that? I would think avoiding marriage, sex or not, would prevent that from becoming a problem.
Firstly, again, what does this have to do with avoiding premarital sex and its relation to long term stability?
But there are tradeoffs with many things. The time you spend with one thing is time you don’t spend on something else. That said, the time you spend developing social skills, with men or women, can be time well spent. Just because you don’t see the value in a relationship (while not in a relationship), doesn’t mean there isn’t value from it. I’ve had relationships that enabled me to grow emotionally and intellectually, and even helped set me on the path to making several positive financial changes.
Yes, there are time sucking, energy sucking relationships out there… but that’s not every single one of them.
The only benefit you see from a relationship is a child?
[quote]As well I take into consideration datability. How attractive, intelligent, and emotionally (to list a few traits) stable are the women on the current dating market place… me personally based on what I evaluate my personal worth to be feel as if I am not getting a good return on investment.
I could go on but for me personally I feel as if I am not getting a good return on my time investment when engaging in relationships.[/quote]
How attractive, intelligent, and emotionally stable are you, yourself? Are you sure your personal worth isn’t inflated?
Secondly, how does working on yourself actually help this situation? How will improving yourself improve your “return on investment”? Wouldn’t it make more sense instead to spend time learning how to get more out of a relationship with less effort put in?
That’s fine, but it’s probably because you’re not at a point where you’re attracting higher quality women. It probably looks dismal because the high quality women are pursuing or involved with men that are “better” than you.
There are a number of smart, single, attractive career women in large cities who spent much of their time focusing on self-improvement that are now looking to date.
I would suggest that the problem isn’t the “dating market”, but rather your current inability to find and attract the right women.[/quote]
Also, and this is WORTH mentioning: Sex is a skill. If you spend all your time accumulating assets, building your body into specimen of kinetic perfection, etc… and FINALLY decide to attract a woman, and you succeed… but have the sexual skill set of a 14 year old, your lady will be LESS than impressed. Just sayin’…[/quote]
Unless you hold out for a woman who is also saving herself as well, I suppose. Then you can discover the whole thing together. Kind of like marrying your high school sweetheart, only in your 30’s. As orion pointed out, there are whole societies that operate this way.
Although in the context of those cultures there is a value structure and social validation to support abstinence. It’s a normal, well adjusted behaviour. In our culture, after a certain age and in the absence of any support structure, it’s more likely a sign of poor social integration (not that I think promiscuity in either gender is especially healthy in most cases).
FTR, I am not endorsing this course of action.[/quote]
Yeah for the most part I will be financially independent and start making a good wage career in 1-2 years
Yeah I honestly do not really like North American society that much. I feel as if the traits and things we celebrate aren’t particularly conducive to continued success as a society so I choose not to participate in a lot of things because I fail to see the point.
So yes I am poorly social integrated but what does that exactly mean in this day and age?
[quote]Lift or die wrote:
Do you want me to share a few stories? Is it too hard to believe that a man would turn down that short term pleasure for long term security?[/quote]
I’m sorry, but what?
How does that “short term pleasure” diminish his “long term security”? What is this “long term security” that you’re talking about anyway?[/quote]
Marriage loss of assets if divorced.[/quote]
How does avoiding premarital sex help with that? I would think avoiding marriage, sex or not, would prevent that from becoming a problem.
Firstly, again, what does this have to do with avoiding premarital sex and its relation to long term stability?
But there are tradeoffs with many things. The time you spend with one thing is time you don’t spend on something else. That said, the time you spend developing social skills, with men or women, can be time well spent. Just because you don’t see the value in a relationship (while not in a relationship), doesn’t mean there isn’t value from it. I’ve had relationships that enabled me to grow emotionally and intellectually, and even helped set me on the path to making several positive financial changes.
Yes, there are time sucking, energy sucking relationships out there… but that’s not every single one of them.
The only benefit you see from a relationship is a child?
[quote]As well I take into consideration datability. How attractive, intelligent, and emotionally (to list a few traits) stable are the women on the current dating market place… me personally based on what I evaluate my personal worth to be feel as if I am not getting a good return on investment.
I could go on but for me personally I feel as if I am not getting a good return on my time investment when engaging in relationships.[/quote]
How attractive, intelligent, and emotionally stable are you, yourself? Are you sure your personal worth isn’t inflated?
Secondly, how does working on yourself actually help this situation? How will improving yourself improve your “return on investment”? Wouldn’t it make more sense instead to spend time learning how to get more out of a relationship with less effort put in?
That’s fine, but it’s probably because you’re not at a point where you’re attracting higher quality women. It probably looks dismal because the high quality women are pursuing or involved with men that are “better” than you.
There are a number of smart, single, attractive career women in large cities who spent much of their time focusing on self-improvement that are now looking to date.
I would suggest that the problem isn’t the “dating market”, but rather your current inability to find and attract the right women.[/quote]
Also, and this is WORTH mentioning: Sex is a skill. If you spend all your time accumulating assets, building your body into specimen of kinetic perfection, etc… and FINALLY decide to attract a woman, and you succeed… but have the sexual skill set of a 14 year old, your lady will be LESS than impressed. Just sayin’…[/quote]
[quote]Lift or die wrote:
Do you want me to share a few stories? Is it too hard to believe that a man would turn down that short term pleasure for long term security?[/quote]
I’m sorry, but what?
How does that “short term pleasure” diminish his “long term security”? What is this “long term security” that you’re talking about anyway?[/quote]
Marriage loss of assets if divorced.[/quote]
How does avoiding premarital sex help with that? I would think avoiding marriage, sex or not, would prevent that from becoming a problem.
Firstly, again, what does this have to do with avoiding premarital sex and its relation to long term stability?
But there are tradeoffs with many things. The time you spend with one thing is time you don’t spend on something else. That said, the time you spend developing social skills, with men or women, can be time well spent. Just because you don’t see the value in a relationship (while not in a relationship), doesn’t mean there isn’t value from it. I’ve had relationships that enabled me to grow emotionally and intellectually, and even helped set me on the path to making several positive financial changes.
Yes, there are time sucking, energy sucking relationships out there… but that’s not every single one of them.
The only benefit you see from a relationship is a child?
[quote]As well I take into consideration datability. How attractive, intelligent, and emotionally (to list a few traits) stable are the women on the current dating market place… me personally based on what I evaluate my personal worth to be feel as if I am not getting a good return on investment.
I could go on but for me personally I feel as if I am not getting a good return on my time investment when engaging in relationships.[/quote]
How attractive, intelligent, and emotionally stable are you, yourself? Are you sure your personal worth isn’t inflated?
Secondly, how does working on yourself actually help this situation? How will improving yourself improve your “return on investment”? Wouldn’t it make more sense instead to spend time learning how to get more out of a relationship with less effort put in?
That’s fine, but it’s probably because you’re not at a point where you’re attracting higher quality women. It probably looks dismal because the high quality women are pursuing or involved with men that are “better” than you.
There are a number of smart, single, attractive career women in large cities who spent much of their time focusing on self-improvement that are now looking to date.
I would suggest that the problem isn’t the “dating market”, but rather your current inability to find and attract the right women.[/quote]
Also, and this is WORTH mentioning: Sex is a skill. If you spend all your time accumulating assets, building your body into specimen of kinetic perfection, etc… and FINALLY decide to attract a woman, and you succeed… but have the sexual skill set of a 14 year old, your lady will be LESS than impressed. Just sayin’…[/quote]
Unless you hold out for a woman who is also saving herself as well, I suppose. Then you can discover the whole thing together. Kind of like marrying your high school sweetheart, only in your 30’s. As orion pointed out, there are whole societies that operate this way.
Although in the context of those cultures there is a value structure and social validation to support abstinence. It’s a normal, well adjusted behaviour. In our culture, after a certain age and in the absence of any support structure, it’s more likely a sign of poor social integration (not that I think promiscuity in either gender is especially healthy in most cases).
FTR, I am not endorsing this course of action.[/quote]
Yeah for the most part I will be financially independent and start making a good wage in 1-2 years
Yeah I honestly do not really like North American society that much. I feel as if the traits and things we celebrate aren’t particularly conducive to continued success as a society so I choose not to participate in a lot of things because I fail to see the point.
So yes I am poorly social integrated but what does that exactly mean in this day and age?
