[quote]Lift or die wrote:
Do you want me to share a few stories? Is it too hard to believe that a man would turn down that short term pleasure for long term security?[/quote]
I’m sorry, but what?
How does that “short term pleasure” diminish his “long term security”? What is this “long term security” that you’re talking about anyway?[/quote]
And isn’t it pretty much a scientific fact that men who aren’t getting laid have massive IQ drops and make stupid decisions (especially regarding women lol)[/quote]
Both Newton and Tesla would like to have a word with you. [/quote]
Shit, there is a long list of brilliant minds that would argue against her Deb’s point. Sexual transmutation
[/quote]
I wouldn’t go so far as to call it a point. More like something I thought that maybe isn’t so. What about decisions around women in particular? My observation is that horny men are easy to lead astray
[quote]debraD wrote:
I wouldn’t go so far as to call it a point. More like something I thought that maybe isn’t so. What about decisions around women in particular? My observation is that horny men are easy to lead astray ;)[/quote]
Well, ok.
In my experience and observation, horny men around attractive women can be easily directed to do whatever (possibly stupid thing), but their actual performance at that whatever is improved.
More along the lines of: a man may screw his life up for a beautiful women, but he’ll do it in the most brilliant manner possible.
Lorez: How does avoiding premarital sex help with that? I would think avoiding marriage, sex or not, would prevent that from becoming a problem.Â
Lift or die: What I have noticed that most girls who have a lot of premarital sex have poor impulse control, carry possible STI’s a host of ex’s… stuff I don’t want to deal with… girls that have less sex have stronger pair bonding and tend to be less crazy. I just want to spend some time with a person before having sex to know that I like them enough not to just pump and dump them.
Â
Lorez: Firstly, again, what does this have to do with avoiding premarital sex and its relation to long term stability?Â
Lift or die: What I have noticed that most girls who have a lot of premarital sex have poor impulse control, carry possible STI’s a host of ex’s… stuff I don’t want to deal with… girls that have less sex have stronger pair bonding and tend to be less crazy. I just want to spend some time with a person before having sex to know that I like them enough not to just pump and dump them. If I like them enough after spending some time then I would be done for sex.
Lorez: But there are tradeoffs with many things. The time you spend with one thing is time you don’t spend on something else. That said, the time you spend developing social skills, with men or women, can be time well spent. Just because you don’t see the value in a relationship (while not in a relationship), doesn’t mean there isn’t value from it. I’ve had relationships that enabled me to grow emotionally and intellectually, and even helped set me on the path to making several positive financial changes.Â
Lift or die: That sounds really positive.
Lorez: The only benefit you see from a relationship is a child?Â
Lift or die: No you are right it is not the only benefit, I think a combination of me being more on the introverted sensitive side has left me a little jaded with some of the craziness I have put up with in the past.
Lorez: How attractive, intelligent, and emotionally stable are you, yourself? Are you sure your personal worth isn’t inflated?Â
Lift or die: I am above average attractive I get approached often enough had girls ask me out. Intelligent in school for a trade in a demand industry right now. Emotionally stable I could be better it is a weak point. That is actually a good question, my personal worth is probably a little inflated but at the same time I would question the self-worth of the girls that I have dated often times, they probably needed to be knocked down a peg or two.
Lorez: Secondly, how does working on yourself actually help this situation? How will improving yourself improve your “return on investment”? Wouldn’t it make more sense instead to spend time learning how to get more out of a relationship with less effort put in?Â
Lift or die: Good looks success 70-80% of attracting women in my mind 20-30 percent social skills.
Lorez: That’s fine, but it’s probably because you’re not at a point where you’re attracting higher quality women. It probably looks dismal because the high quality women are pursuing or involved with men that are “better” than you.Â
Lift or die: It’s a possibility for sure. Where do these women hide because most women I meet that are physically attractive I simply do not enjoy being around and most women I find emotionally attractive I don’t find physically attractive. Jeeze I have figured it out I must be gay jk. I am not sure is it really that hard to find a physically attractive women that isn’t a headcase?
Lorez: I would suggest that the problem isn’t the “dating market”, but rather your current inability to find and attract the right women.
Lift or die: Again you could be on the mark. If I want a high quality mate I probably need to put more effort in before I draw such harsh conclusions. This would also suggest that finding a girl with her shit together is just as hard as finding a guy and this is never emphasized and its annoying as hell.
I wouldn’t say that my conduct is at all altered by the presence of an ‘attractive woman’.
perhaps this is because I know that, for the most part, their beauty is nothing more than an illusion… a façade.
what do they look like after a shower with all that makeup down the drain? how do their legs and ass look after they remove the yoga pants that so cleverly hide their chunky cellulite?
in my experience, most ‘beautiful’ women are actually remarkably average… so, keeping this in mind… my behavior doesn’t change much at all.
[quote]Lift or die wrote:
Do you want me to share a few stories? Is it too hard to believe that a man would turn down that short term pleasure for long term security?[/quote]
I’m sorry, but what?
How does that “short term pleasure” diminish his “long term security”? What is this “long term security” that you’re talking about anyway?[/quote]
And isn’t it pretty much a scientific fact that men who aren’t getting laid have massive IQ drops and make stupid decisions (especially regarding women lol)[/quote]
Both Newton and Tesla would like to have a word with you. [/quote]
Shit, there is a long list of brilliant minds that would argue against her Deb’s point. Sexual transmutation
[/quote]
I wouldn’t go so far as to call it a point. More like something I thought that maybe isn’t so. What about decisions around women in particular? My observation is that horny men are easy to lead astray ;)[/quote]
Decisions around women? Depends on the woman, yes sometimes a woman can have an affect on a man in a negative way and be part of the equation of him making poor decisions.
“Behind every great man, is a great woman” You can be a great man without a woman, but the odds of you being a great man with a bad woman is very low.
You are an attractive woman, and I’m sure around some men, you could act like they might get to hit it, and lead them through some hoops. Men with high testosterone are more likely to take risk. A man around you who is under the impression that he might get to do the sexuals with you will have his testosterone peaking, so he will have a more risk taking state of mind. But, our brains don’t turn off and we don’t become stupid. You might think some of the things we might do as stupid but we are guys and are different.
If you are around a confident, good MAN, who hasn’t been getting laid you will not go away from that meeting thinking he is stupid. You will probably go away from that meeting moist
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
I wouldn’t say that my conduct is at all altered by the presence of an ‘attractive woman’.
perhaps this is because I know that, for the most part, their beauty is nothing more than an illusion… a façade. [/quote]
Dude, a man is supposed to appreciate beauty, love beauty. Go to the “belfie” thread
[quote]
what do they look like after a shower with all that makeup down the drain? how do their legs and ass look after they remove the yoga pants that so cleverly hide their chunky cellulite?[/quote]
What say you, men of TN? How well do you think around women when you haven’t gotten laid in a reasonable amount of time?
[/quote]
I recently took a “break” from women to be alone and get my shit together and I can say that celibacy has taken a huge toll on my sanity and self esteem. Yes we do need sex because it says “hey man, you are worthy!” on a deep psychological level.
Ideally, having a low maintenance lady would be great, but those are tough to find.
I skipped 7 pages so my comment may be a little out of place, but just my two cents:
I believe a true Alpha Male is one who has found a purpose in life that is congruent with his true self, and is walking that path with everything he has. In my opinion women are icing on the already delicious cake of a man’s life (and this goes for women as well, obviously). A true Alpha Male would go for whatever women benefited his life in the way he decided, it’s his life and he makes his own damn decisions.
Now to “Lift or Die”, there were several things that I didn’t really agree with in your most recent post.
Firstly: you stated that any woman who has a lot of premarital sex has poor impulse control. I think that’s completely wrong, at least for women who are very attractive. You have to understand that in this day and age they are being bombarded by literally hundreds of men a day. For example, my buddy made a fake tinder account in a city of ~100,000 people, and within four hours this fake woman had gotten well over a hundred matches, no exaggeration at all. And each match sent a message, most of which were pathetic lol.
With that being said, a woman has a LOT of options. And women love sex just as much as men. So if you as a man had that many options, you’d probably have a whole lot of sex too. No matter how much self control you had.
Secondly: you stated that women who have less sex make stronger bonds. Again, I would disagree. Mostly because most attractive women have had a lot of sex. If an attractive woman tells you she’s fucked less than 10 guys, she may be telling you the truth, but it’s very likely that she’s lying (insecure men have negative views about sluts, so that’s the last thing she’d want to seem to be). In my own experience it’s closer to 30, sometimes even more. So if the average woman has that much sex, then your statement is false because it’d actually be rare to find a woman who had less sex, so your chances of finding a woman who had less sex and created stronger bonds wouldn’t be too high. Not to mention that you have to consider that a woman who likes sex just as much as men, has a lot of options, and didn’t have a lot of sex in her youth, will eventually come to an age where her beauty begins to dissipate. She may start to wonder exactly what it was she missed all those years, if you catch my meaning.
Thirdly: you stated that 70-80% of attraction is good looks, while 20-30% is based on social skills. This is very true…but only for men. You see men are actually biologically primed to respond to visual cues, while women are primed to respond to BEHAVIORAL cues. Think about humans in cave man days. Men were the physically dominant sex and women were essentially cattle, i.e. the worth of a woman was based on how good looking she was. Why would a cave man have sex with an ugly woman, when he could find a more attractive one and (unfortunately) just rape her? Now on the other hand, a woman would want to put herself in a situation that protected her from said rape, and other dangerous situations that can come from being the physically weaker sex in such trying days. The best option is to find a true Alpha Male: one who is able to protect her and stop outside males from coming in, killing him and their children, and then stealing her and raping her.
Thankfully we have come a very long way since these days, but a few million years of evolution cannot be erased by really only a hundred years of social evolution. Men still respond more to tits and ass, while women still respond more to confident, purposeful men. Obviously men still like a good personality, and women like a muscular body, but only 20-30%.
AND FINALLY: I would say the reason you don’t find attractive women cool to be around, and emotionally stable women as unattractive, is probably due to a self-fulfilling prophecy. You may say that those don’t affect it that much, but trust me when I say, they really fucking do. You get in life exactly what you expect from it. When I first started developing my social skills I had really negative views about women, I thought they were vain, selfish, and cruel. Guess what kind of woman I always seemed to find? I got hurt a lot until I finally just said fuck it and stopped caring. The fact that by this point I was decent enough with women, coupled with this new mindset of just not caring, made it easier to find women who were cooler. Mostly because our interactions weren’t stained by my unconscious belief that they were just going to fuck me over. I literally gave them the chance to show me how cool they were.
[quote]Lift or die wrote:
Do you want me to share a few stories? Is it too hard to believe that a man would turn down that short term pleasure for long term security?[/quote]
I’m sorry, but what?
How does that “short term pleasure” diminish his “long term security”? What is this “long term security” that you’re talking about anyway?[/quote]
Maybe the idea that any women he sleeps with before he has his long term security will falsely accuse him of rape, sabotage his condom and trap him with kids or boil his rabbit? I’m curious as well.
[/quote]
The funny part is, or what I can’t figure, is how does having more financial security help? To me that just means you have more to lose when the women do their evil.
But I don’t expect strong logics from men who don’t think they need sex.
[/quote]
ad hominem. I fail to see how logic and lack of sex are connected, could you perhaps show some sources backing up your assertion? Read my above posts I said I would only get married if my assets were protected 100%
[/quote]
Really? You don’t think regular sex has a positive effect on a man and his brain? I was being a smartass and you shouldn’t take me too seriously but I was sort of serious about the getting laid and making good decisions about women part.
What say you, men of TN? How well do you think around women when you haven’t gotten laid in a reasonable amount of time?
[/quote]
Looking back on my 20’s, my angriest and most irritable times were when I lacked female company. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: I can’t think of much more that makes a man angrier (and weirder) than lack of female company. And actually, the womanless men I’ve come across in my life, there is a seeming uneasiness that I could sense about them.
[quote]Lift or die wrote:
Do you want me to share a few stories? Is it too hard to believe that a man would turn down that short term pleasure for long term security?[/quote]
I’m sorry, but what?
How does that “short term pleasure” diminish his “long term security”? What is this “long term security” that you’re talking about anyway?[/quote]
Maybe the idea that any women he sleeps with before he has his long term security will falsely accuse him of rape, sabotage his condom and trap him with kids or boil his rabbit? I’m curious as well.
[/quote]
The funny part is, or what I can’t figure, is how does having more financial security help? To me that just means you have more to lose when the women do their evil.
But I don’t expect strong logics from men who don’t think they need sex.
[/quote]
ad hominem. I fail to see how logic and lack of sex are connected, could you perhaps show some sources backing up your assertion? Read my above posts I said I would only get married if my assets were protected 100%
[/quote]
Really? You don’t think regular sex has a positive effect on a man and his brain? I was being a smartass and you shouldn’t take me too seriously but I was sort of serious about the getting laid and making good decisions about women part.
What say you, men of TN? How well do you think around women when you haven’t gotten laid in a reasonable amount of time?
[/quote]
Looking back on my 20’s, my angriest and most irritable times were when I lacked female company. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: I can’t think of much more that makes a man angrier (and weirder) than lack of female company. And actually, the womanless men I’ve come across in my life, there is a seeming uneasiness that I could sense about them. [/quote]
[quote]Lift or die wrote:
Do you want me to share a few stories? Is it too hard to believe that a man would turn down that short term pleasure for long term security?[/quote]
I’m sorry, but what?
How does that “short term pleasure” diminish his “long term security”? What is this “long term security” that you’re talking about anyway?[/quote]
Maybe the idea that any women he sleeps with before he has his long term security will falsely accuse him of rape, sabotage his condom and trap him with kids or boil his rabbit? I’m curious as well.
[/quote]
The funny part is, or what I can’t figure, is how does having more financial security help? To me that just means you have more to lose when the women do their evil.
But I don’t expect strong logics from men who don’t think they need sex.
[/quote]
ad hominem. I fail to see how logic and lack of sex are connected, could you perhaps show some sources backing up your assertion? Read my above posts I said I would only get married if my assets were protected 100%
[/quote]
Really? You don’t think regular sex has a positive effect on a man and his brain? I was being a smartass and you shouldn’t take me too seriously but I was sort of serious about the getting laid and making good decisions about women part.
What say you, men of TN? How well do you think around women when you haven’t gotten laid in a reasonable amount of time?
[/quote]
Looking back on my 20’s, my angriest and most irritable times were when I lacked female company. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: I can’t think of much more that makes a man angrier (and weirder) than lack of female company. And actually, the womanless men I’ve come across in my life, there is a seeming uneasiness that I could sense about them. [/quote]
[quote]Lift or die wrote:
Do you want me to share a few stories? Is it too hard to believe that a man would turn down that short term pleasure for long term security?[/quote]
I’m sorry, but what?
How does that “short term pleasure” diminish his “long term security”? What is this “long term security” that you’re talking about anyway?[/quote]
Maybe the idea that any women he sleeps with before he has his long term security will falsely accuse him of rape, sabotage his condom and trap him with kids or boil his rabbit? I’m curious as well.
[/quote]
The funny part is, or what I can’t figure, is how does having more financial security help? To me that just means you have more to lose when the women do their evil.
But I don’t expect strong logics from men who don’t think they need sex.
[/quote]
ad hominem. I fail to see how logic and lack of sex are connected, could you perhaps show some sources backing up your assertion? Read my above posts I said I would only get married if my assets were protected 100%
[/quote]
Really? You don’t think regular sex has a positive effect on a man and his brain? I was being a smartass and you shouldn’t take me too seriously but I was sort of serious about the getting laid and making good decisions about women part.
What say you, men of TN? How well do you think around women when you haven’t gotten laid in a reasonable amount of time?
[/quote]
Looking back on my 20’s, my angriest and most irritable times were when I lacked female company. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: I can’t think of much more that makes a man angrier (and weirder) than lack of female company. And actually, the womanless men I’ve come across in my life, there is a seeming uneasiness that I could sense about them. [/quote]
swing and a miss[/quote]
Huh?
[/quote]
maybe I was mistaken, but it seemed as though you were projecting
[quote]Lift or die wrote:
Do you want me to share a few stories? Is it too hard to believe that a man would turn down that short term pleasure for long term security?[/quote]
I’m sorry, but what?
How does that “short term pleasure” diminish his “long term security”? What is this “long term security” that you’re talking about anyway?[/quote]
Marriage loss of assets if divorced.[/quote]
How does avoiding premarital sex help with that? I would think avoiding marriage, sex or not, would prevent that from becoming a problem.
Firstly, again, what does this have to do with avoiding premarital sex and its relation to long term stability?
But there are tradeoffs with many things. The time you spend with one thing is time you don’t spend on something else. That said, the time you spend developing social skills, with men or women, can be time well spent. Just because you don’t see the value in a relationship (while not in a relationship), doesn’t mean there isn’t value from it. I’ve had relationships that enabled me to grow emotionally and intellectually, and even helped set me on the path to making several positive financial changes.
Yes, there are time sucking, energy sucking relationships out there… but that’s not every single one of them.
The only benefit you see from a relationship is a child?
[quote]As well I take into consideration datability. How attractive, intelligent, and emotionally (to list a few traits) stable are the women on the current dating market place… me personally based on what I evaluate my personal worth to be feel as if I am not getting a good return on investment.
I could go on but for me personally I feel as if I am not getting a good return on my time investment when engaging in relationships.[/quote]
How attractive, intelligent, and emotionally stable are you, yourself? Are you sure your personal worth isn’t inflated?
Secondly, how does working on yourself actually help this situation? How will improving yourself improve your “return on investment”? Wouldn’t it make more sense instead to spend time learning how to get more out of a relationship with less effort put in?
That’s fine, but it’s probably because you’re not at a point where you’re attracting higher quality women. It probably looks dismal because the high quality women are pursuing or involved with men that are “better” than you.
There are a number of smart, single, attractive career women in large cities who spent much of their time focusing on self-improvement that are now looking to date.
I would suggest that the problem isn’t the “dating market”, but rather your current inability to find and attract the right women.[/quote]
Bingo.
Hey, as much as I liked sex in my twenties (and still do, of course) there was certainly a whole lot more to my relationship with my woman than just that. His thinking is so screwed up I don’t even know where to begin.[/quote]
[quote]Lift or die wrote:
Do you want me to share a few stories? Is it too hard to believe that a man would turn down that short term pleasure for long term security?[/quote]
I’m sorry, but what?
How does that “short term pleasure” diminish his “long term security”? What is this “long term security” that you’re talking about anyway?[/quote]
Marriage loss of assets if divorced.[/quote]
How does avoiding premarital sex help with that? I would think avoiding marriage, sex or not, would prevent that from becoming a problem.
Firstly, again, what does this have to do with avoiding premarital sex and its relation to long term stability?
But there are tradeoffs with many things. The time you spend with one thing is time you don’t spend on something else. That said, the time you spend developing social skills, with men or women, can be time well spent. Just because you don’t see the value in a relationship (while not in a relationship), doesn’t mean there isn’t value from it. I’ve had relationships that enabled me to grow emotionally and intellectually, and even helped set me on the path to making several positive financial changes.
Yes, there are time sucking, energy sucking relationships out there… but that’s not every single one of them.
The only benefit you see from a relationship is a child?
[quote]As well I take into consideration datability. How attractive, intelligent, and emotionally (to list a few traits) stable are the women on the current dating market place… me personally based on what I evaluate my personal worth to be feel as if I am not getting a good return on investment.
I could go on but for me personally I feel as if I am not getting a good return on my time investment when engaging in relationships.[/quote]
How attractive, intelligent, and emotionally stable are you, yourself? Are you sure your personal worth isn’t inflated?
Secondly, how does working on yourself actually help this situation? How will improving yourself improve your “return on investment”? Wouldn’t it make more sense instead to spend time learning how to get more out of a relationship with less effort put in?
That’s fine, but it’s probably because you’re not at a point where you’re attracting higher quality women. It probably looks dismal because the high quality women are pursuing or involved with men that are “better” than you.
There are a number of smart, single, attractive career women in large cities who spent much of their time focusing on self-improvement that are now looking to date.
I would suggest that the problem isn’t the “dating market”, but rather your current inability to find and attract the right women.[/quote]
Bingo.
Hey, as much as I liked sex in my twenties (and still do, of course) there was certainly a whole lot more to my relationship with my woman than just that. His thinking is so screwed up I don’t even know where to begin.[/quote]
Please enlighten me
[/quote]
Sometimes women are good for companionship or, God forbid, friendship too. Even in your 20’s.
[quote]Lift or die wrote:
Do you want me to share a few stories? Is it too hard to believe that a man would turn down that short term pleasure for long term security?[/quote]
I’m sorry, but what?
How does that “short term pleasure” diminish his “long term security”? What is this “long term security” that you’re talking about anyway?[/quote]
Marriage loss of assets if divorced.[/quote]
How does avoiding premarital sex help with that? I would think avoiding marriage, sex or not, would prevent that from becoming a problem.
Firstly, again, what does this have to do with avoiding premarital sex and its relation to long term stability?
But there are tradeoffs with many things. The time you spend with one thing is time you don’t spend on something else. That said, the time you spend developing social skills, with men or women, can be time well spent. Just because you don’t see the value in a relationship (while not in a relationship), doesn’t mean there isn’t value from it. I’ve had relationships that enabled me to grow emotionally and intellectually, and even helped set me on the path to making several positive financial changes.
Yes, there are time sucking, energy sucking relationships out there… but that’s not every single one of them.
The only benefit you see from a relationship is a child?
[quote]As well I take into consideration datability. How attractive, intelligent, and emotionally (to list a few traits) stable are the women on the current dating market place… me personally based on what I evaluate my personal worth to be feel as if I am not getting a good return on investment.
I could go on but for me personally I feel as if I am not getting a good return on my time investment when engaging in relationships.[/quote]
How attractive, intelligent, and emotionally stable are you, yourself? Are you sure your personal worth isn’t inflated?
Secondly, how does working on yourself actually help this situation? How will improving yourself improve your “return on investment”? Wouldn’t it make more sense instead to spend time learning how to get more out of a relationship with less effort put in?
That’s fine, but it’s probably because you’re not at a point where you’re attracting higher quality women. It probably looks dismal because the high quality women are pursuing or involved with men that are “better” than you.
There are a number of smart, single, attractive career women in large cities who spent much of their time focusing on self-improvement that are now looking to date.
I would suggest that the problem isn’t the “dating market”, but rather your current inability to find and attract the right women.[/quote]
Bingo.
Hey, as much as I liked sex in my twenties (and still do, of course) there was certainly a whole lot more to my relationship with my woman than just that. His thinking is so screwed up I don’t even know where to begin.[/quote]
Please enlighten me
[/quote]
Sometimes women are good for companionship or, God forbid, friendship too. Even in your 20’s. [/quote]
