Best Results For Chest Size & Strength

Training Bodybuilding
21

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Mr. Push Ups wrote:

i would personaly like to see how many you can do and your feedback on chest recruitment in this exercise. i know of nothing better, and i’ve been benching for 20 years.

I have no interest in doing a “chest slide” and could honestly care less who came up with it. We can sit here and create new freaking exercises all day long and it won’t mean that anyone ever needs to do them.

press>> inferior chest action biomechanically

fly>> superior chest action biomechanically

Bullshit.

i have stabilization, natural body mechanics, heavy loads, limited arm stress, both biomechanical actions going simultaneously here, less tricep involvement, hard chest contraction, long range of motion, long time under tension, do rest pauses with this exercise and really furthur time under tension

interested in your reply

I have given it. A dumbbell press provides “inferior” chest “action” than a flye? Are you serious? I ask because I am not laughing.[/quote]

you’re killing me X

even preference is starting to outweigh knowledge on this site.

that pretty much sums up all these flames

i prefer benching to anything for chest
and i know that benching is not a superior chest movement, there are better exercises

oh well, even you won’t fold X
you’re still a force to be recon with on this site, but after that post, you have your weak points

22

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I have given it. A dumbbell press provides “inferior” chest “action” than a flye? Are you serious? I ask because I am not laughing.[/quote]

to pull the arm across the chest is the primary action of the chest, if you can overload that, and i have found ways, you have a better movement than the secondary action which is to press

why do you think the triceps try to take over in every press you? because thier primary function is to extend the arm, and its impossible to extend the arm without activating your tricep in a pressing or pushing motion.

the press is inferior 7 days of the week

23

[quote]Mr. Push Ups wrote:
you’re killing me X

even preference is starting to outweigh knowledge on this site.

that pretty much sums up all these flames

i prefer benching to anything for chest
and i know that benching is not a superior chest movement, there are better exercises

oh well, even you won’t fold X
you’re still a force to be recon with on this site, but after that post, you have your weak points[/quote]

This schtick is old and I haven’t even read most of your other posts. Your chest is not worked better through flyes. The weight used is a larger indicator of which exercise can actually produce the greatest stress on that muscle group which will in turn lead to greater adaptive mass gains. That is the knowledge that allows me to understand that the dumbbell flye is an “inferior” exercise to any heavy pressing movement. The triceps, shoulders, lats and even serratus do not take away so much force that the pecs work less than with a dumbbell flye.

24

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I see a lot of newbies doing flyes. It is like one of the first things they seem to learn. I don’t know any competitors who do them and even the ones claiming they do them in the mags didn’t get that damn big because of dumbbell flyes. It is the one movement that I believe you could completely leave out of a program and never feel a need to replace it…much like upright rows.[/quote]

I think a lot of Newbies have them in their program because it “feels” like it’s working, and it’s easier to do. The light weight and the stretch combine to give Newbies the illusion that this exercise really hits the pecs.

Having said that, I do them occassionally as a stretch at the end of a workout if my chest and shoulders feel like they need it. I certainly don’t use it for mass building.

Mr PU,

What a fucking surprise that you recommended push-ups. You sound like a broken record. If push-ups were the best mass builders around, every marine and boxer would be built like a brick shithouse. Please get some new shit.

Love and Lollipops,

Massif

25

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Mr. Push Ups wrote:
you’re killing me X

even preference is starting to outweigh knowledge on this site.

that pretty much sums up all these flames

i prefer benching to anything for chest
and i know that benching is not a superior chest movement, there are better exercises

oh well, even you won’t fold X
you’re still a force to be recon with on this site, but after that post, you have your weak points

This schtick is old and I haven’t even read most of your other posts. Your chest is not worked better through flyes. The weight used is a larger indicator of which exercise can actually produce the greatest stress on that muscle group which will in turn lead to greater adaptive mass gains. That is the knowledge that allows me to understand that the dumbbell flye is an “inferior” exercise to any heavy pressing movement. The triceps, shoulders, lats and even serratus do not take away so much force that the pecs work less than with a dumbbell flye. [/quote]

where i agree:
flyes suck for loading,
and the force on the arm takes away from overloading the chest in a press

where i disagree:
using the primary function recruits more chest and less assisting muscles, and when you manipulate the fly as I have and CW’s chest builder; your are able to overload it with more weight than a typical fly and therefore increase the stressload dirctly on the chest withour needing a heavier load in the pressing

example:
i max 350 for 1 rep
i can fly (slide or rolling dumbbell) my bodyweight plus a weighted backpack that is less than the 350 total and put more direct strain on the pectorals

your logic: if i can deadlift 350 and work my bi’s pulling with the deadlift, its gonna put more direct strain on my biceps than curling 150 laying on my back and pulling it attached to something like a cable taking the back away from the movement as much as i can. That’s not even half the weight.

I say think again.

26

[quote]Massif wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I see a lot of newbies doing flyes. It is like one of the first things they seem to learn. I don’t know any competitors who do them and even the ones claiming they do them in the mags didn’t get that damn big because of dumbbell flyes. It is the one movement that I believe you could completely leave out of a program and never feel a need to replace it…much like upright rows.

I think a lot of Newbies have them in their program because it “feels” like it’s working, and it’s easier to do. The light weight and the stretch combine to give Newbies the illusion that this exercise really hits the pecs.

Having said that, I do them occassionally as a stretch at the end of a workout if my chest and shoulders feel like they need it. I certainly don’t use it for mass building.

Mr PU,

What a fucking surprise that you recommended push-ups. You sound like a broken record. If push-ups were the best mass builders around, every marine and boxer would be built like a brick shithouse. Please get some new shit.

Love and Lollipops,

Massif
[/quote]

where to start with this one, lets just say

easy answer, every one mentioned doesn’t put the amount of time in building muscle as does a weightlifter, this could go on forever but I’d rather just converse with the professor. If I can come to some sort of realization with him, then there’s hope for knowledge over preference

27

[quote]Mr. Push Ups wrote:
where i agree:
flyes suck for loading,
and the force on the arm takes away from overloading the chest in a press

[/quote]

that should say “and the force on the arm takes away from overloading the fly as you can in the press”

28

[quote]Mr. Push Ups wrote:
where to start with this one, lets just say

easy answer, every one mentioned doesn’t put the amount of time in building muscle as does a weightlifter, this could go on forever but I’d rather just converse with the professor. If I can come to some sort of realization with him, then there’s hope for knowledge over preference[/quote]

If you want a private chat with the Professor, you PM him. Until then, your idiot suggestions are on a public forum, and I’ll respond to them as I like.

The massive problem with your suggestion is that the weight of a bench will supply a much greater stimulus to the pecs even though other muscles are involved with the lift. Your comparison with the deadlifts and biceps is a poor one. Comparing a bent over row or a chin up to a reverse fly would be a better option. Once again, for mass, you are better doing pressing and pulling than flies or reverse flies.

29

[quote]Massif wrote:
Mr. Push Ups wrote:
where to start with this one, lets just say

easy answer, every one mentioned doesn’t put the amount of time in building muscle as does a weightlifter, this could go on forever but I’d rather just converse with the professor. If I can come to some sort of realization with him, then there’s hope for knowledge over preference

If you want a private chat with the Professor, you PM him. Until then, your idiot suggestions are on a public forum, and I’ll respond to them as I like.

The massive problem with your suggestion is that the weight of a bench will supply a much greater stimulus to the pecs even though other muscles are involved with the lift. Your comparison with the deadlifts and biceps is a poor one. Comparing a bent over row or a chin up to a reverse fly would be a better option. Once again, for mass, you are better doing pressing and pulling than flies or reverse flies.[/quote]

You’d rther insult than use any useful knowledge. You are a complete waste of time conversing with. Calling me an idiot, when my I.Q. because I do’nt agree with you is not an intelligent reply. Your ignorance is probably a direct result of your lack of knowledge on the subject.

Your replies are quiet useless.

Once again, would the biomechanics and experienced guys like to chime in here. (jehovasfitness need not apply)unless you wanna add facts and not flame, feel free.

I’m more concearned with any results done on pectoral stimulation on certain exercises and with certain weights. Muscle recruitment. I don’t have any test results. I can only perform the exercises and get a feel for them. Does anyone have any quantitive data?

Flamers stay away. The “how much can you bench? & flys suck section is 10 years behind this one”

Bench press for 10 years then add a comment. And be able to bench press twice your bodyweight so we know used progressed on a bench press.

Advanced lifters and exercise physiologist need apply to the parameters of these biomechanical angles & stress factors.

Any studies done with quantitive data on pectoral recruitment in certain exercises?

List:
Bench Presses
Incline Presses
Flyes
Dips
Pullovers
Push Ups
Cable Flys
Dumbbell Presses
Machine Presses
Machine Flys
Decline Presses
Slide Push Ups
Machine Pullovers

Also are there any studies done on the other muscles as well in the above exercises?

30

[quote]Massif wrote:
If you want a private chat with the Professor, you PM him. Until then, your idiot suggestions are on a public forum, and I’ll respond to them as I like.
[/quote]

Now would you want to converse with this low level type of intelligence. I agree. Wheres the professor and the physiologist with thier data?

31


Flyes are not the best exercise for chest.

I had good hypertrophy results doing barbell/dumbbell incline, flat and decline bench presses and using various techniques to get a lot of blood pumped into the muscle (drop sets, supersets, etc.). I typically did this kind of thing once a week.

I’ve had my best strength gains focusing on barbell bench presses (and variations) and using heavy weights, low reps, and plenty of sets 2 times a week.

32

[quote]Nate Dogg wrote:
Flyes are not the best exercise for chest.

I had good hypertrophy results doing barbell/dumbbell incline, flat and decline bench presses and using various techniques to get a lot of blood pumped into the muscle (drop sets, supersets, etc.). I typically did this kind of thing once a week.

I’ve had my best strength gains focusing on barbell bench presses (and variations) and using heavy weights, low reps, and plenty of sets 2 times a week.[/quote]

Nice try Nate.

“Flys arn’t the best exercise for the chest” I could have told ya that. I don’t even do flyes, ever.

Besides you conclude that simply by looking at a diagram of some fly arc resistance. Thats not data on pectoral stimulation. Thats data on arc stimulation. I’ve seen actual percentages of muscle fiber hit using certain exercises before. That would be much usefull here. Nice try. I wouldn’t even do a fly, because I myself feel them inferior. I am refering to a slide push up or any replica of that like my rolling dummbell push up ( a fly turned upside down) Both use both functions at the same time, pressing and flying and would superior tp pressing or flying. I would love for science to prove me wrong rather than opinion and insults and preference.

I say that a weighted slide push up(One described in Chad Waterbury’s chest builder) & my very similiar dumbbell push up are the superior chest movements for maximum muscle strain and stimulation resulting in greater hypertrophy.

With enough resistance the slide push up or (variance of) is the superior exercise for chest hypertrophy.

The Bench Press will remain one of the superior exercises for strength.

Those are my claims. Prove me wrong. First with science. Then with reality. Test sample Bench Presses, Flys, Push Ups. And then the combo of all 3 (Slide Push Up or Rolling dumbbell push up)

In the end you’ll find the order of superiority looking something like this.

1- Combination Press & Fly exercise with resistance. Example (Slide Push Up & Rolling dumbbell Push up) ( Both With Resistance)
2- Same as above without resistance
3- Bodyweight pressing. Example would be dip and push up variations. (Both with resistance)
4- same as above without resistance
5- compound nonbodyweight pressing. example. bench presses or machine presses.
6- same as above with dumbbells
7- flyes. with dumbbells
8-machine flys. example. pec dec or cable x-overs

Who has proof? Not opinions. Our opinions mean squat. Who has the data or research? Anybody?

33

[quote]Mr. Push Ups wrote:
With enough resistance the slide push up or (variance of) is the superior exercise for chest hypertrophy.[/quote]

That is the key. Enough resistance. And do you think it’s possible to get enough resistance doing slide pushups with a weighted vest or something else? Or, wouldn’t you think that various forms of the bench press make much more sense and would be the superior exercise for the chest?

[quote]The Bench Press will remain one of the superior exercises for strength.

[/quote]

I’d say it’s number 1 since external load will be the challenge with the slide pushups.

34

[quote]Nate Dogg wrote:
Mr. Push Ups wrote:
With enough resistance the slide push up or (variance of) is the superior exercise for chest hypertrophy.

That is the key. Enough resistance. And do you think it’s possible to get enough resistance doing slide pushups with a weighted vest or something else? Or, wouldn’t you think that various forms of the bench press make much more sense and would be the superior exercise for the chest?

The Bench Press will remain one of the superior exercises for strength.

I’d say it’s number 1 since external load will be the challenge with the slide pushups.

[/quote]

there is no doubt in my mind that the greater the load will produce greater strength. thats why i rank the bench press #1 in my workout doing 5 sets of 5

Bench Press is the #1 exercise for strength, i cant find another one for a greater load.

hypertrophy doesn’t require greatest strength exercise. if that were true, we would all be doing what powerlifters do and would be stuck without massive bodybuilder type pecs from only doing the heavest load type of exercise.

Yes, the load on a bodyweight fly is far greater than a regular fly, were talking double and triple and that could go even higher. Now add in the pressing movment from pushing up. both biomechanical functions are were here. You get both the heavy load from pressing, and the hard contraction fron the flying.

This is why bodybuilders have found ways to manipulate exercises to get greater muscle hypertrophy.

I have gotten greater hypertrophy using less than 30 lbs on biceps, then using over 100lbs on biceps. All due to the direct muscle strain and recruitment ofd those fibers in the exercises. Just an example where maximum weight doesn’t mean maximum hypertrophy.

The mistake is made when people relate maximum load to maximum hypertrophy.

They should be relating maximum load to maximum strength. I do. Thats why I do 5 sets of bench presses, for maximum strength. The i do 1 hypertrophy set of 100 reps in a rest/pause set and prolong the TUT(time under tension)for as long as I can. Then i use 2 sets of push ups for blood flow increase and capalaries density increase. Not to mention frequency, but thats a whole new arguement. I’m with Waterbury on that one.

35

wonder how many posts there will be showing data or facts based on the knowledge I have provided above. My guess is ZERO, because they will be unable to. So we are right back to where these threads always end up. Flame wars and insults. Watch the avalanche of ingorance proceed this post. Just a matter of time. I have yet to be proven wrong with a fact or and quantitive data. Only opinions and insults. Gotta love these forums. I give the information and get bashed for being right and countering everything you thought you knew. Ignorance.>> Ironical. Arrogance.>> Commical. Resistance.>> Probable.

36

Fuck! Your posts don’t even make sense and you’re saying that you’re smarter than everyone else!

And now you’re flaming everyone else who replies to the thread!

Get fucking over yourself. Post your opinion and move on. Noone has to agree with you.

And you have no proof of anything either, even though you demand it from everyone else.

37

[quote]Mr. Push Ups wrote:
Watch the avalanche of ingorance proceed this post. Just a matter of time. [/quote]

Sxio wins by a mile ,
my nayaying fanclub shall be here soon, then plane is late. I have more than a dozen or so flamers that will provide you with new ways to insult a person and at the same time provide you with no furthur information on training. Thank God foe me huh.

You can sit back enjoy the show and learn new things everday. “Rolling Dumbbell Push Ups”, what the hell is that? I’ve never heard of those. Is that even possible. You’ve just exercised my point. We’ve all heard of someone being called an idiot? Right? Well stick around. Jehovasfitness shall be here soon, biggest flamer I have.

They’re a little late today. They’re trying out or using my exercises to build thier body. Irony.

38

double standard posting check

Fuck! Your post don’t even make any sense.

Get over yourself.

39

hahaha, how do you guys get sucked into these arguments? you’re all wrong and I’m right…well, because I’m right beatches. and if you try to say otherwise, I’ll simply ignore your point and change my argument. bwahahahaha.

40

[quote]slimjim wrote:
hahaha, how do you guys get sucked into these arguments? you’re all wrong and I’m right…well, because I’m right beatches. and if you try to say otherwise, I’ll simply ignore your point and change my argument. bwahahahaha.[/quote]

hi jim

sty outta this playpen, your too smart to be in here

go back to what you do best, build muscle

i’ll deal with the pinheads