I hate guru speak. It is bad enough coming from the gurus and it is ridiculous coming from everyone else.[/quote]
Haha took the words right out of my mouth. Who here is talking about prepubescant boys anyways? That would be over in the beginner section at best. I hope we aren’t taking advice that’s meant for someone who is beyond learning how to lift a barbell for the first and assuming the same would be fitting for a kid who’s barely in control of his own body still. Are we?
Brant_Drake obviously referenced the thread in a dumb ass attempt to attack my credibility on the basis of some entirely unrelated matter. Seriously, what is wrong with you?
[quote]cormac wrote:
Get down from your fucking tower.
Having 12,000 posts does not earn you any superiority, it does not entitle you to make condescending remarks to another person merely on the basis of having considerably more knowledge on the matter of strength training than yourself. I mean, you are acting like an
[i]Noun: aliterate
A person who can read but is disinclined to derive information from literary sources
aliterate person
[/i]
Zap, what I am trying to say to you is that with 12,000 posts you have merely made your stamp on the community as the Resident Loser.[/quote]
Being 170 lbs of internet badass does not earn you any superiority either.
Wait…you compete in a sport with weight classes, so thats why youre not bigger? So why are you trying to give “qualified advice” to somone interested in bodybuilding? Is it because you just know that if you really wanted to, you could get huge? So like, you could could be 230 and diced next year if you wanted to, but you compete in a sport with weight classes so you have to stay at 170 lbs, right? But you could totally get yoked if you wanted.
[quote]cormac wrote:
Brant_Drake obviously referenced the thread in a dumb ass attempt to attack my credibility on the basis of some entirely unrelated matter. Seriously, what is wrong with you?[/quote]
Always good to hear different things that others have been sucessful with. In your warm up did you incorporate a lot of stretching? I have found this really good personally the last few months.
Anyway I like the idea of a bit more volume. It is something I have actually been trying to incorporate in the right dose, but your structure in the first routine isn’t that disimilar to what I currently do.
Thanks again[/quote]
At the end of my high volume workout I would do 1 set of bodyweight lunges for about 20 reps for legs just to get more blood in. Stefan would do this in the video too. It’s a good finisher when you’re tired. Then I’d do every stretch for the glutes and the hamstrings I could think of and I’d do the foam roller on my ass if I could find it. I wouldn’t hold the stretches for very long. Just until I could touch my toes for a few seconds. I would also warm up on the bike for 3 or 5 minutes before I lifted.
Best of Luck!
This is the video I got the ideas from. Threw in RDLs because he didn’t have them, I didn’t do any leg extensions, and I Didn’t do smith machine stuff. Actually, I changed a lot of stuff but I like this video.
[quote]cormac wrote:
Get down from your fucking tower.
Having 12,000 posts does not earn you any superiority, it does not entitle you to make condescending remarks to another person merely on the basis of having considerably more knowledge on the matter of strength training than yourself. I mean, you are acting like an
[i]Noun: aliterate
A person who can read but is disinclined to derive information from literary sources
aliterate person
[/i]
Zap, what I am trying to say to you is that with 12,000 posts you have merely made your stamp on the community as the Resident Loser.[/quote]
Think whatever you want. I am unimpressed with your contributions. You have made a practice out of talking down to people and giving marginal advice.
The very thought of DEMANDING that the OP buy oly shoes and learn the lifts is ludicrous. If you would have shared your experience I would have had no problem with it but that is not what you did.
When I said I didn’t like your post you called me a prick and rambled on about testosterone injections or some such nonsense.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I just have to reiterate again how eye poppingly brutal leg work done right with a trap bar can be. Squats done with the weight back, below parallel will make an instant believer out of anyone who doubts this. Total quad killer, KILLER, and with less weight than you think.[/quote]
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Come on boys, no need to go to blows over this. However Zap does have a valid point. It’s not the end of the world, but why tell a guy to do olympic lifts in response to an intelligent bodybuilding question? Though I suspect Cormac doesn’t believe there could be such a thing. Also what if he didn’t get the olympic shoes?
His progress which is obviously defined differently to him than yours is to you, would come to a screeching halt? I never see anybody knock anyone else for pursuing growth in the oly lifts, why the veiled disdain for a guy who doesn’t have the same goals as you? It’s not like he posted another pic of Ryan Reynolds or anything.[/quote]
Tiribulus, as usual… you are a gentleman and a schollar.
Yes, Olympic lifters have huge teardrops so his advice is valid. It’s good for someone who trains lifts, but if you train like a BB, there is too much overlap with other body parts.
Try some peterson step-ups. Sometimes they take a while to get used to, but well worth it. Make sure the toes of your lifting foot are pointed slightly outward. Also, keep the toes of ur non-lifting foot up so you don’t cheat and push off of that foot. You may need to start at a much lower height than the guy in the video.
[quote]KombatAthlete wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
I just have to reiterate again how eye poppingly brutal leg work done right with a trap bar can be. Squats done with the weight back, below parallel will make an instant believer out of anyone who doubts this. Total quad killer, KILLER, and with less weight than you think.
Are you talking about the trap-bar deadlift?[/quote]
Try using a trap bar from a platform, tall enough to just about reach the bar, and bring the handles down to your ankles instead of out in front of you. Get the thighs to at least parallel, use smaller plates or a taller platform that fits inside the bar if you have to. Similar to dumbbell squats without the weight rubbing on your legs.
Push with your heels and resist the urge to curl your toes if you get it. Make no mistake, this is a BRUTAL exercise and one I do every leg workout. This pic is somewhat close only you want the deficit from the platform.
[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:
<<< Tiribulus, as usual… you are a gentleman and a schollar.
Yes, Olympic lifters have huge teardrops so his advice is valid. It’s good for someone who trains lifts, but if you train like a BB, there is too much overlap with other body parts.
Again, I appreciate all the comments.
[/quote]
Thank you sir.
As others have said as well, the Oly lifts are a just plain pain in the ass. They’re great lifts and my hat is waaaay off to those who do well with them, but they are both unnecessary and sub optimal for most people who aren’t in that part of the game in my opinion.
Like Scott was saying in particular, by the time an Oly noob developed the skills needed to move weight in those lifts he could’ve put 3 inches on his legs with traditional mass building exercises.
I say give Cormac a break, he’s taken enough abuse. He’s just speaking from an OL’s point of view.
I appreciate any attempt to give me new ideas.
I did dabble with the snatch and it is NOT easy to master. So I never went back to it. Plus, I can’t fit those types of lifts into my routine very well.
meathead mentality? Where is the meathead mentality? I think if more people had said mentality, there would be more big guys posting here instead of 150 lb teenagers who apparently “know it all” but havent gained any weight not attributed to hitting puberty.
These pissing contests come from a) the huge amount of 14 year olds now posting here and b)people giving “qualified advice” that they were never qualified to give.
How big are your legs? Since when did soreness indicate any sort of hypertrophy benefit?[/quote]
Since when did weight become a qualifier? You don’t need to be 300 lbs to know that oly lifts are hard to learn.
I never said soreness = hypertrophy. I just thought it would be an interesting point of discussion.
meathead mentality? Where is the meathead mentality? I think if more people had said mentality, there would be more big guys posting here instead of 150 lb teenagers who apparently “know it all” but havent gained any weight not attributed to hitting puberty.
These pissing contests come from a) the huge amount of 14 year olds now posting here and b)people giving “qualified advice” that they were never qualified to give.
How big are your legs? Since when did soreness indicate any sort of hypertrophy benefit?
Since when did weight become a qualifier? You don’t need to be 300 lbs to know that oly lifts are hard to learn.
I never said soreness = hypertrophy. I just thought it would be an interesting point of discussion.[/quote]
youre right, you dont. But you also need to have had experience building muscle in order to tell people how they should go about doing it. This is what I have a problem with.
you made the implication that the OLY lifts were effective for VMO hypertrophy because you did them and today your VMO was sore.
That wasn’t the implication I wanted to show. People have been saying that you need to squat ATG to get that VM optimally stimulated (even sore). While I agree with that, my sore VM got me thinking.
A power snatch doesn’t require any ATG squat. In fact, a 1/10th squat was the lowest I went. What is it about power snatches that stimulate the VM?
Didn’t you start in a squat position to get the snatch off the ground in the first place?
Even if you did them from the hang, you still need to use your quads to straight the leg up in some fashion, the VMO will fire whether you want it to or not.
Peterson Step Ups with foot angled out 10-15 degrees. Range of motion is low, but hits the VMO well. Drop the free leg by moving the knee forward out over the knee and coming up on ball of foot. Like stepping off of a stair step. Start with low height and work up to 6-7". Then add weight. (3-1-2) type of tempo is good.
Deep Front Squats, heels elevated, ~10-15 degrees outward rotation of feet. Vary the reps through your cycle.
1-1/3 Deep Squats: Come partially up, then right back down, then do the full rep. Not just partial reps, but full reps with additional time spent at the bottom of movement.
Resistance band TKEs
I would not do leg extensions all the time. Maybe some of the time. You can read references to studies and such right here on T-Nation the disadvantages to Leg Extensions. I still do them myself sometimes (I’m surgically repaired)…because I derive immediate benefit. But there is a cost to heavy loads and long term use of the movement. I prefer lower weights, and partial combinations…meaning I do partials at the bottom of the lift…followed by partials at the top. Alleviates that pivot at intermediate of the lift…but it’s a terrible exercise for the ACL.
[quote]Olympic Failure wrote:
Peterson Step Ups with foot angled out 10-15 degrees. Range of motion is low, but hits the VMO well. Drop the free leg by moving the knee forward out over the knee and coming up on ball of foot. Like stepping off of a stair step. Start with low height and work up to 6-7". Then add weight. (3-1-2) type of tempo is good.
Deep Front Squats, heels elevated, ~10-15 degrees outward rotation of feet. Vary the reps through your cycle.
1-1/3 Deep Squats: Come partially up, then right back down, then do the full rep. Not just partial reps, but full reps with additional time spent at the bottom of movement.
Resistance band TKEs
I would not do leg extensions all the time. Maybe some of the time. You can read references to studies and such right here on T-Nation the disadvantages to Leg Extensions. I still do them myself sometimes (I’m surgically repaired)…because I derive immediate benefit. But there is a cost to heavy loads and long term use of the movement. I prefer lower weights, and partial combinations…meaning I do partials at the bottom of the lift…followed by partials at the top. Alleviates that pivot at intermediate of the lift…but it’s a terrible exercise for the ACL.[/quote]
One thing I don’t do on leg extensions is fully lock out. I always stop about 20 degrees short. I have heard that it is the locking out that causes sheer stress to the knee.
My only complaint is that 90% of leg extension machines don’t go back far enough. You can rarely go beyond a 90 degree angle before the weight bottoms out. Many times it is a matter of adjusting the cable with some allen screws, but I’ve never had the guts to do it in a commercial gym.
