Best Movement for VM (Teardrops)

[quote]anthropocentric wrote:
Deep front squats.

Since you have to keep your torso more upright, it forces your knees to go further over your toes than a back squat which will put more emphasis on the stus medialis.

Are you front squatting?[/quote]

I have done them on a few occasions over the years. Last winter I did them for about 6 workouts in a row and got fairly strong (in comparison to back squat).

My best was 225 for 5 and they were very low.

I did lose a bit of enthusiasm for them however, because I have always felt tension in the back, hips and hamstrings more than the quads. And when I went back to regular squatting my poundages dropped somewhat.

Maybe I should rotate them a bit more.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
pat36 wrote:
<<< and hack squats. >>>

Barbell hacks from a platform too.[/quote]

With heels elevated in a “frog” stance.

Get a pair of olympic lifting shoes, and do full snatches and full cleans with heavy ass weight.

I just have to reiterate again how eye poppingly brutal leg work done right with a trap bar can be. Squats done with the weight back, below parallel will make an instant believer out of anyone who doubts this. Total quad killer, KILLER, and with less weight than you think.

[quote]cormac wrote:
Get a pair of olympic lifting shoes, and do full snatches and full cleans with heavy ass weight.[/quote]

Why do people post this shit?

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
cormac wrote:
Get a pair of olympic lifting shoes, and do full snatches and full cleans with heavy ass weight.

Why do people post this shit? [/quote]

LOL!

Zap, are you fucking serious dude?

I stand by my post as it is completely true that the full lifts will do more for you in reaching your specific goals for hitting the VM muscles than ANYTHING.

P-R-I-C-K.

Alternatively you could do some fucking “front jump squats”, I’d like to see Zap do a set.

[quote]cormac wrote:
Zap, are you fucking serious dude?

I stand by my post as it is completely true that the full lifts will do more for you in reaching your specific goals for hitting the VM muscles than ANYTHING.

P-R-I-C-K.[/quote]

You certainly are a prick. The man has a serious bodybuilding question and you tell him to become an olympic lifter? Why don’t you tell him top become a speed skater? They have big legs too!

It is no wonder all the old timers that know what the hell they are doing have left the site.

Oh, I have to give a “serious bodybuilding answer” then, huh?

Inject so much god damn testosterone that your balls shrivel up inside of you and you grow hair on your tongue. Then do 30 rep back squats and front squats 7 days a week, you’ll be hyooge dude.

[quote]cormac wrote:
Oh, I have to give a “serious bodybuilding answer” then, huh?

Inject so much god damn testosterone that your balls shrivel up inside of you and you grow hair on your tongue. Then do 30 rep back squats and front squats 7 days a week, you’ll be hyooge dude.[/quote]

You are a tool.

Teardrop?

High-Rep Leg Press is great for putting on quad mass near the knee.

When I started doing split squats I noticed I got a better teardrop. But that might have been from the split squats improving my squat and thus the heavier weights I could then squat allowed me to improve my teardrop.

And the results are in for the pissing contest:

Ladies and gentlemen, we have two losers!

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
cormac wrote:
Get a pair of olympic lifting shoes, and do full snatches and full cleans with heavy ass weight.

Why do people post this shit? [/quote]

Because here at T-Nation, we believe that the olympic lifts, powerlifting, high frequency, zero-isolation, and high intensity interval training are the secrets to being a good bodybuilder. And if you disagree with that, then youre either lying or on steroids.

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
cormac wrote:
Get a pair of olympic lifting shoes, and do full snatches and full cleans with heavy ass weight.

Why do people post this shit?

Because here at T-Nation, we believe that the olympic lifts, powerlifting, high frequency, zero-isolation, and high intensity interval training are the secrets to being a good bodybuilder. And if you disagree with that, then youre either lying or on steroids.[/quote]

I always forget this!

That’s a fair point to make undeadlift, I am usually very critical of people bashing one another on the forum. The difference here though, besides finding myself on the receiving end of criticisms is that a very helpful comment directed at the OP was deemed to be useless merely because it does not fit the schema of training that Zap uses regularly.

Obviously, it takes a person with blatant disregard for the benefits of explosive lifting and their application to bodybuilding goals to make such a heedless comment.

It is infuriating to me that there is this clearly delineated limit to the educational opportunities - (in receiving and dispensing advice) - on this site. If there weren’t such a strong pervasiveness of meathead ideology this would be different.

[quote]cormac wrote:
That’s a fair point to make undeadlift, I am usually very critical of people bashing one another on the forum. The difference here though, besides finding myself on the receiving end of criticisms is that a very helpful comment directed at the OP was deemed to be useless merely because it does not fit the schema of training that Zap uses regularly.

Obviously, it takes a person with blatant disregard for the benefits of explosive lifting and their application to bodybuilding goals to make such a heedless comment.

It is infuriating to me that there is this clearly delineated limit to the educational opportunities - (in receiving and dispensing advice) - on this site. If there weren’t such a strong pervasiveness of meathead ideology this would be different.[/quote]

Boo hoo. Why don’t you take your ball and go home? You have been an insulting asshole ever since you first joined.

You are the one that immediately started talking smack about steroids and other shit. Your attitude sucks.

[quote]FightingScott wrote:
Teardrop?

High-Rep Leg Press is great for putting on quad mass near the knee.

When I started doing split squats I noticed I got a better teardrop. But that might have been from the split squats improving my squat and thus the heavier weights I could then squat allowed me to improve my teardrop. [/quote]

Hey FightingScott

I don’t ever post, often just read but am seriously interested in what sort of program or protocol you used with the above and your leg training. How good do you think your results were and what improvements would you make if you had your time over?

Really interested as after two ACL reconstructions and a lot of time off I am finally getting myself to a position to decently train my legs. I hope to really improve them, add some size and strenght because from my starting point they were terrible. Anyway sorry for the hijack but I am currently using squat, split squat, leg press and front squat predominantly for my quads. So there is a parallel here for me

Thanks

Come on boys, no need to go to blows over this. However Zap does have a valid point. It’s not the end of the world, but why tell a guy to do olympic lifts in response to an intelligent bodybuilding question? Though I suspect Cormac doesn’t believe there could be such a thing. Also what if he didn’t get the olympic shoes?

His progress which is obviously defined differently to him than yours is to you, would come to a screeching halt? I never see anybody knock anyone else for pursuing growth in the oly lifts, why the veiled disdain for a guy who doesn’t have the same goals as you? It’s not like he posted another pic of Ryan Reynolds or anything.

[quote]Eightman wrote:
FightingScott wrote:

Hey FightingScott

I don’t ever post, often just read but am seriously interested in what sort of program or protocol you used with the above and your leg training. How good do you think your results were and what improvements would you make if you had your time over?

Really interested as after two ACL reconstructions and a lot of time off I am finally getting myself to a position to decently train my legs. I hope to really improve them, add some size and strenght because from my starting point they were terrible. Anyway sorry for the hijack but I am currently using squat, split squat, leg press and front squat predominantly for my quads. So there is a parallel here for me

Thanks[/quote]

I’ve never had any knee problems but I’ll tell you what’s worked for me in the past.

This summer I saw a YouTube Video of Stefan Havlik (some big-time French Bodybuilder) working out legs. His workout was more high volume that what I’d been doing for legs. I changed some of the exercises and came up with this workout that I would do for leg size. I would do 1 warm-up set with the bar for 15 reps and 1 warm-up set with 135 before I went to work. I feel that mentally, your warm up set should have more reps than your working sets so you’ll be less inclined to quit in the middle of a set. I would pyramid the weight each set.

-Olympic Back Squat 15-12-10-8
-Barbell Bulgarian-Split Squat
-Romanian Deadlift 15-15-15
-Leg Press 10-10 (After completing 10 reps, do 10 high knee jumps. I usually only got to 8. This should be pretty killer)
-Leg Curl 8-8-8
-Seated Calf Raise 15-15-15
-Smith Machine Standing Calf Raise 15-15-15

This helped me put on a lot of weight, size and strength. I’d do it twice a week. I tried to PR in the Back Squat and Romanian Deadlift whenever possible and just did the other exercises for blood volume.

Now I don’t really have the physical capital to do shit like this since it’s Dual-Meet Swim-Season so I do this:

-Monday: Front Squat 8X3
-Unilateral Leg Movement (Lunge, Split Squat, or Step-up) 2X6 reps per leg
-Posterior Chain (Leg Curl, 45’ Hyper, Romanian Deadlift, etc) (3X8-15)
-Heavy Abs (3-4X15-25)

Thursday:
-Good Morning, Deadlift, or Squat Variation Max Effort (Work up to 3RM and PR every Thursday. Cycle the Max Effort movement of choice every 3 weeks mainly to prevent boredom)
-Unilateral Leg Movement (Lunge, Split Squat, or Step-up) 2X6 reps per leg
-Posterior Chain (Leg Curl, 45’ Hyper, Romanian Deadlift, etc) (3X8-15)
-Light Abs (2X50)

There was a point where at the end of Tuesday and Thursday I would do the Cybrex Leg Press for 1 set of 20 reps and I’d add a plate to each side of the machine every workout. I think this helped me add some detail pretty quickly and I was able to move up to doing as many plates as the machine would allow for 19 reps last week.

But now that I’ve accomplished that I’m just going to put more volume into my single leg movements instead. The only reason I was training the leg press like this was to prove to a prick on my team that I could leg press twice his 10RM for twice the reps he could do.

I expect that I’ll be able to continue adding size now that my unilateral leg movement is the barbell back lunge. I had been doing Bulgarian Split Squats for maybe a month and had worked my way up to doing 100 lbs in each hand. I noticed that I wasn’t really doing these with one leg so much that I was squatting with my forward leg and dong a lex extension with my rear leg when the weight got that heavy. If you do split squats, make sure you’re aware of this.