Best Martial Art to Enroll Daughters In?

Training
41

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Well, how old are your daughters? There’s a big difference between teaching a child karate under the assumption that they’ll never use it and teaching self defense to a girl who goes to college in NYC.

Honestly though, I’ll go out on a limb and say find a very good karate school- I’m partial to the Okinawan forms myself. Circular styles will help teach them to not meet force with force, and will also show them how to punch, shoot palm heel strikes, and do other things without getting them hurt.

I like judo, mainly because it will teach them to throw, and then give them an opportunity to get away. However, it is still based around sport, and still involves grappling… and I don’t like the odds when a girl is grappling with a guy, no matter how big. And I still don’t ever recommend BJJ for self defense, no matter what any asshole tells you.

Agreed. However get them into kyokushin. It’s the more violent form of karate and has emphasis on knocking out and pushing yourself as opposed to touch-point sparring.
I would think a woman’s best weapons are her feet and legs and kyokushin has an emphasis on bare hand and feet hitting.

However i would supplement it with some boxing because the major weak point of kyokushin is the lack of face punching and if she does this from a young age it will engrain a weakness in real street fight.

In which case you say go for muay thai, which is a great martial art but as far as i know isn’t that big on escapes and dodging, which would be helpful for a woman.

Imo, kyokushin + boxing + wrestling = win.[/quote]

Not that I don’t agree- if it were a guy asking the question, I’d say you’re 200 percent right.

But remember- the guy isn’t asking, “What happens if my daughter gets beer balls and gets into a fight?” He’s asking for self defense, and sports are going to be sorely lacking in mental skills and avoidance and awareness that a girl will need.

Not to mention, I don’t have a whole lot of faith in the small bones of a girl’s hand standing up to an impact with a guy’s face- hence why I would favor open hand strikes for a woman sooner than I would a man.

Edit- that video is pretty tough. That girl with the long hair has some wicked footwork.

42

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Res Judicata wrote:

Avoid places that do a significant amount of kata.

I don’t agree with this statement. What is wrong with kata? It is in no way different than a boxer shadowboxing- and that’s the most valuable tool a boxer has.[/quote]

Kata is poor substitute for shadowboxing and is not as practical imho. Some kata is okay. Excessive kata is a warning sign of a crappy dojo. Do not make me post musical kata compilations.

43

[quote]Res Judicata wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Res Judicata wrote:

Avoid places that do a significant amount of kata.

I don’t agree with this statement. What is wrong with kata? It is in no way different than a boxer shadowboxing- and that’s the most valuable tool a boxer has.

Kata is poor substitute for shadowboxing and is not as practical imho. Some kata is okay. Excessive kata is a warning sign of a crappy dojo. Do not make me post musical kata compilations.
[/quote]

Kata isn’t a substitute for shadowboxing- it’s an equivalent depending on your style. I’m not saying the class should be entirely composed of it, or that there should be 2425 forms… but in my old style, goju-ryu, there were only 8 katas (i think).

If you have a good teacher who knows that kata inside and out, and, more importantly, what the moves are meant for, then it can be an invaluable training tool, akin to shadowboxing.

44

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
legendaryblaze wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Well, how old are your daughters? There’s a big difference between teaching a child karate under the assumption that they’ll never use it and teaching self defense to a girl who goes to college in NYC.

Honestly though, I’ll go out on a limb and say find a very good karate school- I’m partial to the Okinawan forms myself. Circular styles will help teach them to not meet force with force, and will also show them how to punch, shoot palm heel strikes, and do other things without getting them hurt.

I like judo, mainly because it will teach them to throw, and then give them an opportunity to get away. However, it is still based around sport, and still involves grappling… and I don’t like the odds when a girl is grappling with a guy, no matter how big. And I still don’t ever recommend BJJ for self defense, no matter what any asshole tells you.

Agreed. However get them into kyokushin. It’s the more violent form of karate and has emphasis on knocking out and pushing yourself as opposed to touch-point sparring.
I would think a woman’s best weapons are her feet and legs and kyokushin has an emphasis on bare hand and feet hitting.

However i would supplement it with some boxing because the major weak point of kyokushin is the lack of face punching and if she does this from a young age it will engrain a weakness in real street fight.

In which case you say go for muay thai, which is a great martial art but as far as i know isn’t that big on escapes and dodging, which would be helpful for a woman.

Imo, kyokushin + boxing + wrestling = win.

Not that I don’t agree- if it were a guy asking the question, I’d say you’re 200 percent right.

But remember- the guy isn’t asking, “What happens if my daughter gets beer balls and gets into a fight?” He’s asking for self defense, and sports are going to be sorely lacking in mental skills and avoidance and awareness that a girl will need.

Not to mention, I don’t have a whole lot of faith in the small bones of a girl’s hand standing up to an impact with a guy’s face- hence why I would favor open hand strikes for a woman sooner than I would a man.

Edit- that video is pretty tough. That girl with the long hair has some wicked footwork.[/quote]

True.
However i think i was slightly misunderstood. Let me explain the reasons i picked those 3 specifically.

Kyokushin: Focuses more on sparring and warrior mindset than katas. Will teach her how to kick and punch barefist. The focus is on kicks and the footwork of kicks. Also knees and elbows.
This will help her learn how to fight with her feet and legs. However it will also teach her how to duck, dodge and weave in accordance to kicking and body punches (rolling with the punches). It will also teach her the different forms of open hand fighting (as you mentioned, open palm and so forth) which would not be found in muay thai or boxing.
This gives her many options and to the fact that there is no protective gear, it will help instill a mindset in her that will aid her in defending herself. Being hit in the stomach with a glove and with a bare fist are two very different feelings.

Boxing is there for the upper body. It comes 2/3 of a circle with kyokushin. What boxing lacks in kicking, it more than makes up for in punches. The lack of face punches in kyokushin is a HUGE flaw for self defense. Boxing is not there to show her how to throw a punch, it is there to show her to defend herself from one.
If someone wants to punch or slap her in the face, it’s the head work and boxing skills that are pretty much unique to boxing that will help her out. She can also use her boxing skills with some open palm strikes.
Most men fight with punches and if it ever comes to that she needs to be prepared.

Wrestling is there because it completes the circle. A woman’s biggest disadvantage is size. A man just needs to hug a woman to take her down.
So far with boxing and kyokushin we have the arms and legs covered in terms of stand up but what would she do if someone got too close to her?
Bjj is great but relying on a martial art that works pretty much only on the floor is suicidal for a woman.
Judo is great too but i think it’s something that requires you to throw yourself alot. However i am not familiar with it so i won’t say much more.
I believe wrestling is better because it also has emphasis on legs and a woman will usually be smaller than a man and this will allow her to get under him/around him more easily.

I think this is the best course of action.

I agree, Irish, that such sport oriented martial arts (sounds like an oxy moron) will not necessarily help her when she will have to rip someone’s arm off but it will give her the tools to defend herself instinctively. That is something that takes a lot longer to develop (imo) then learning how to not have pity.
Ferocity is something that her father will have to teach her or that she will have to teach herself. That is something that almost no martial art can really teach you. You can train for war, but you will never know war unless you directly experience it.

In terms of skill building, if she is cornered she has the tools to defend herself. She can punch, kick, take down and throw. The mentality that is needed is something that she will have to acquire with experience and maybe some hairy situations.

To the OP:
The best thing you can teach your daughter is situation avoidance and situational awareness.
Teach her that the best way to win a self defense situation is to avoid it completely.
If the drug dealers from her class, Jeremy and John, are having a house party in a shady neighborhood, then she shouldn’t go. It’s that simple.
I know girls that have never needed to defend themselves because they have never put themselves in situations where they would need to.

45

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:

True.
However i think i was slightly misunderstood. Let me explain the reasons i picked those 3 specifically.

Kyokushin: Focuses more on sparring and warrior mindset than katas. Will teach her how to kick and punch barefist. The focus is on kicks and the footwork of kicks. Also knees and elbows.
This will help her learn how to fight with her feet and legs. However it will also teach her how to duck, dodge and weave in accordance to kicking and body punches (rolling with the punches). It will also teach her the different forms of open hand fighting (as you mentioned, open palm and so forth) which would not be found in muay thai or boxing.
This gives her many options and to the fact that there is no protective gear, it will help instill a mindset in her that will aid her in defending herself. Being hit in the stomach with a glove and with a bare fist are two very different feelings.

Boxing is there for the upper body. It comes 2/3 of a circle with kyokushin. What boxing lacks in kicking, it more than makes up for in punches. The lack of face punches in kyokushin is a HUGE flaw for self defense. Boxing is not there to show her how to throw a punch, it is there to show her to defend herself from one.
If someone wants to punch or slap her in the face, it’s the head work and boxing skills that are pretty much unique to boxing that will help her out. She can also use her boxing skills with some open palm strikes.
Most men fight with punches and if it ever comes to that she needs to be prepared.

Wrestling is there because it completes the circle. A woman’s biggest disadvantage is size. A man just needs to hug a woman to take her down.
So far with boxing and kyokushin we have the arms and legs covered in terms of stand up but what would she do if someone got too close to her?
Bjj is great but relying on a martial art that works pretty much only on the floor is suicidal for a woman.
Judo is great too but i think it’s something that requires you to throw yourself alot. However i am not familiar with it so i won’t say much more.
I believe wrestling is better because it also has emphasis on legs and a woman will usually be smaller than a man and this will allow her to get under him/around him more easily.

I think this is the best course of action.

I agree, Irish, that such sport oriented martial arts (sounds like an oxy moron) will not necessarily help her when she will have to rip someone’s arm off but it will give her the tools to defend herself instinctively. That is something that takes a lot longer to develop (imo) then learning how to not have pity.
Ferocity is something that her father will have to teach her or that she will have to teach herself. That is something that almost no martial art can really teach you. You can train for war, but you will never know war unless you directly experience it.

In terms of skill building, if she is cornered she has the tools to defend herself. She can punch, kick, take down and throw. The mentality that is needed is something that she will have to acquire with experience and maybe some hairy situations.

To the OP:
The best thing you can teach your daughter is situation avoidance and situational awareness.
Teach her that the best way to win a self defense situation is to avoid it completely.
If the drug dealers from her class, Jeremy and John, are having a house party in a shady neighborhood, then she shouldn’t go. It’s that simple.
I know girls that have never needed to defend themselves because they have never put themselves in situations where they would need to.[/quote]

I don’t disagree with any of this.

And I especially agree with the last part.

46

Irish, all due respect, GFY. You assume a lot of things based on your experiences and I forgive you for that. Its true that open guard isnt the best place to be in, but all honesty, I tap more people from that position than any other position in grappling.

THE BEST THING YOU CAN DO IN A STREET FIGHT IS TO RUN AWAY!!!

Good to think that you’ll never be in that situation, because in your fairy tale Irish, it will never happen. In the reality that the rest of the world lives in knows that its best to be prepared for anything including conditioning, not just skill. Would I pull guard immediately when a street fight starts? No. The first thing I would do is look to escape. If that werent possible, its time to fight. You want the best street self defense in terms of striking, go with krav maga. If you think that’s all you are going to need to secure your safety, by all means, go with it and pray no one ever over powers you; again something that never happens in Irish’s fairy tale. If you do realize and accept that there are people in the world bigger and stronger than you, you are going to need a means of handling it. Again, if you believe that you will never be taken to the ground or overpowered, dont worry about learning to grapple. If you do accept that reality, GJJ or Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Jiujutsu, Judo, and Sambo are the way to go. Forgive my bias, I’m a GJJ student and I have tapped guys twice my size using the techniques I’ve learned. And again, all the altercations I’ve ever been in have gone to the ground at some point and in my humble and inexperienced opinion, experience is more valuable than statistics on thrown together websites with text from people that may never have existed. If its on the net, it has to be true right?

47

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

http://www.uechi-ryu.com/interview_with_marc.htm

[/quote]

Nice link. I am a blue belt under a 3rd degree blackbelt in BJJ. Although I love BJJ FightingIrish is right in saying that BJJ is not a good choice for a girl looking into self defence. I am 240 and significantly stronger than most of the people in my camp. We have 1 girl who trains with us and she is around 140 pounds and very dense with muscle and I have absolutely no problem moving her into the positions I want and that is just grappling. If I were striking it would be even worse for her. The same situation would occur in the street. My knowledge of other MA is not extensive enough to suggest other disciplines but I would advise not enrolling your daughter into BJJ no matter what age for self defense. However for pure sport and confidence building it is an excellent choice!

48

[quote]admbaum wrote:
Irish, all due respect, GFY. You assume a lot of things based on your experiences and I forgive you for that. Its true that open guard isnt the best place to be in, but all honesty, I tap more people from that position than any other position in grappling.

THE BEST THING YOU CAN DO IN A STREET FIGHT IS TO RUN AWAY!!!

Good to think that you’ll never be in that situation, because in your fairy tale Irish, it will never happen. In the reality that the rest of the world lives in knows that its best to be prepared for anything including conditioning, not just skill. Would I pull guard immediately when a street fight starts? No. The first thing I would do is look to escape. If that werent possible, its time to fight. You want the best street self defense in terms of striking, go with krav maga. If you think that’s all you are going to need to secure your safety, by all means, go with it and pray no one ever over powers you; again something that never happens in Irish’s fairy tale. If you do realize and accept that there are people in the world bigger and stronger than you, you are going to need a means of handling it. Again, if you believe that you will never be taken to the ground or overpowered, dont worry about learning to grapple. If you do accept that reality, GJJ or Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Jiujutsu, Judo, and Sambo are the way to go. Forgive my bias, I’m a GJJ student and I have tapped guys twice my size using the techniques I’ve learned. And again, all the altercations I’ve ever been in have gone to the ground at some point and in my humble and inexperienced opinion, experience is more valuable than statistics on thrown together websites with text from people that may never have existed. If its on the net, it has to be true right?

[/quote]

There’s so many inaccuracies in this post its staggering. But I’m not going into that- you ain’t worth it.

What I will say is that I’m the last person that has any illusions about this. That friend I told you that saved my life? A year prior to that incident he was nearly killed in a fight where he got stomped so badly he was busted up for months. Later on, he saved me in a brawl where I could very easily have suffered the same fate.

My best friends over the years have been streetfighters, drug dealers, drug addicts, thieves, drunks, and hustlers, and I don’t want to be told by some jiu-jitsu student who’s “tapped people out who are bigger than him” how it goes down when your shit goes sour.

There’s many, many, many more people who are bigger, stronger and more skilled than I. Could you tap me out? I bet you could. You might even break my arm. You might even be able to KO me in a standup match, although that’s markedly less likely. But, if we were in a bar, and something went down?

Well, the “reality,” as you called it, is that if you fucked me up that badly- I’d be back, three months later, after you’d forgotten all about it. And I wouldn’t bother challenging you in public so I could redeem myself like some John Wayne movie. They would find you by your with your keys by the door in the morning. You want reality? That’s fucking reality- and it could just as easily happen to me as it could to you.

Outside of your dojo, “bigger and stronger” lose importance, and are often replaced with “sneaky and brutal.”

Don’t tell me about fuckin reality.

49

And by the way- Marc Macyoung wrote that. He’s not some magic internet guru, either. Go look him up. He’s lived the life.

50

[quote]fallout188 wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:

http://www.uechi-ryu.com/interview_with_marc.htm

Nice link. I am a blue belt under a 3rd degree blackbelt in BJJ. Although I love BJJ FightingIrish is right in saying that BJJ is not a good choice for a girl looking into self defence. I am 240 and significantly stronger than most of the people in my camp. We have 1 girl who trains with us and she is around 140 pounds and very dense with muscle and I have absolutely no problem moving her into the positions I want and that is just grappling. If I were striking it would be even worse for her. The same situation would occur in the street. My knowledge of other MA is not extensive enough to suggest other disciplines but I would advise not enrolling your daughter into BJJ no matter what age for self defense. However for pure sport and confidence building it is an excellent choice!

[/quote]

I should say again- I really enjoy BJJ. I learned it for about a year, and then took some classes about a month ago until I seperated my shoulder again. It is fun as fuck. But it has it’s place, and for a woman trying to defend herself from a violent criminal- that’s not it.

51

Ironically, I just read something about Karate and grappling that deals with said subject a little bit.

Go here - How to Bet on Olympic Karate: Everything You Need to Know and download the 2008 issue of “Jissen” under Iainabernethy.com. The first article speaks to this a little- what grappling is for vs. what karate is for, as well as the basic philosophies.

52

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Wayland wrote:
Boxing,Judo,BJJ,Muay Thai,Kickboxing,Savate, catch wrestling, Some japanese jujitsu clubs and certain styles of Karate, aslong as the style has a certain amount of aliveness will leave them in good stead.

Martial arts that look flashy and promise alot usually fall short. Arts that fall into this are “generally” Taekwondo, Certain karate styles, Aikido, some japanese jujitsu, kempo, almost all kungfu styles

This post is a sign of the times, and completely false.

Please don’t give any more advice on this forum.[/quote]

A sign of the times give me a break, aye and you have the tanacity to ask me to stop posting. Maybe I should explain my post better.

Aliveness in martial arts is key for making an art useful If someone wants to collect a certificate from a well known “Sifu”, or look cool doing two person forms, then they will not care or pay attention to the concept of Aliveness. Sticking to the basics, drilling Alive, and sparring against resisting opponents, is the only to aquire real functional skill. You’ll find this with the first set of arts I mentioned.

Karate, taekwondo, kungfu, aikido guys probably could’nt fight their way out of paper bag in a SD situation or a ring, why because these guys are acrobats performing routines against passive opponents. Most TMA guys are deluded and occasionally boarder on cultish in their approach to martial arts. If your doing it for arts sake rock on…heck it looks cool too, the moment you believe it is useful for self defense you’ve dropped a clanger, cresent kick knife defense anyone? Ive met TMA guys who have closed the gap and will practice against resisting opponents but half the curriculum goes out the window. Kungfu guys who when sparring suddenly become kickboxers what happened to all the elaborate movements, shit suddenly effciency becomes important.

Kids are always better off learning an art that will give them a base in aliveness, sure the street is a different place. But a base in an art that deals with a resisting opposition will put them in better stead when those fine motorskills degrade.

53

Get her into Taekwondo. Go to the ATA website and find a school near you. Seriously, what she needs is confidence, and the American Taekwondo Association is just the place for her. There is nothing more practical than Taekwondo, and ATA does it the best. Good luck!

54

I think some of you miss the point. The majority of rapes are not by some psycho hiding n the bushes but by acquaintances. They also take place inside a home. Therefore, grappling is not an option but a reality.

The poster who says he’s a 240 pound blue belt: did you think that maybe it’s not just being 240 that makes it easy for you to roll with a female but the fact that you also know BJJ? Besides, how many women go on dates with 240 pound men who end up trying to rape them? Of course some guys are much bigger but the average rapist is probably the same size as the average man and in just as bad shape. Also, a victim of a violent crime doesn’t always have to defeat the attacker but put up enough of a fight for him to give up or create the chance to escape.

55

Hi, guys, I just saw this thread. Roundhead & Irish, y’all are sweet. OP, you still have not told us what age your daughters are. This, of course, makes all the difference.

But, generally speaking, as a female who trains seriously, here is what I recommend someone look for when seeking self-defense training for the females in their lives:

  1. Very important!! - regardless of style, the students must strike each other hard once they’ve acquired the control to do so. If she can’t take a punch (or any other strike), as well as deliver one, she can’t defend herself against a real attack. Females are STRONGLY socialized to be compliant, regardless of what someone else is doing around or TO them. So they often freeze up when struck, or when expected to strike. This is a big hurdle in teaching females. They really do believe “if I’m nice to him maybe he’ll be nice to me” and fail to react properly when that’s not the case. Allowances can certainly be made early in training for gender differences, but as she progresses she’d better learn to go against the hard boys, or she’ll be unprepared in a real fight.

  2. Some ground training is useful. Most females are terrified, with good reason, of finding themselves on the ground with an attacker(s) on top of them. Knowing you can still defend yourself successfully on the ground is tremendously liberating. That being said, when I roll with guys, I usually lose. This seems to be the case with most females, until they are very advanced, with many years of training. And being thrown on a glass & rock-strewn parking lot is very different than rolling on a mat. So groundfighting should not form the backbone of self defense for females, but should be taught as a worst-case-scenario tool.

  3. She should learn how to recognize a true threat. Let’s face it, some guys don’t mean any harm, they just have appalling social skills. She needs to learn the difference between that guy & a predator. And, she needs to learn not to put herself in dangerous situations, as has been stated in this thread frequently before. She needs to learn the skills to de-escalate a dangerous situation and/or escape as a first defense. Many females walk around in a little bubble with blinders on until its too late.

  4. The school she trains in should teach her to defend against the most common attacks against females, which include: chokes, all types, from every direction. Attacks from behind. Being grabbed by the hair. Being dragged away. Attacks by multiple attackers. Bear hugs, which often lead to being thrown into a car or taken to the ground. Someone said earlier, I believe, that all a guy has to do to take a female to the ground is give her a big hug. This is a gross oversimplification, but I’ll agree that a bear hug is an excellent precursor to a takedown. In all of these situations, and whichever ones I’ve failed to list, she must be taught and encouraged to fight like an animal with every breath she has, using every tool and dirty trick she has, immediately and with 100% of her power. Someone else said earlier, the longer the fight continues, the worse her chances for survival. I agree with this. We are generally smaller & weaker, so we don’t have time to screw around. Anyone who attacks us must regret it immediately, and for a long time.

  5. She should train, and spar, and roll, with males, as much as possible. I rarely train with other females, and always seek out a male partner when one is available. They’re scarier, so I’m forced to face my own fears as much as his skills and superior strength. And yeah, I still get scared. Fighting hard & well when your adrenaline is up is the goal. I’m still working on this.

  6. She should train in plain clothes sometimes. Female clothing is designed to attract, not for freedom of movement. She needs to be able to fight in high heels, jeans, skirts, whatever she normally might wear.

  7. One of the most important things is that she hears from at least some of the adults in her life that she is really capable of pulling this off. I’d always been told when I was young, “don’t fight an attacker, you’ll just make him mad & then he’ll really hurt you”, “girls are weak, so you’d better be nice”, etc. Then a couple of years ago, when I told my stepdad I was going to learn to spar, but I was afraid of getting hit because I didn’t want to get hurt, he said, “So? You’ll heal. You want to learn to fight, don’t just sit and talk about it. Get in there.” I love him for that.

A few people have mentioned that Krav Maga addresses these types of issues, and its true, we excel at this sort of thing. But lots of styles turn out good fighters. I recommend you take a look at Krav, as well as other “hard” styles, including boxing. Some schools are better than others, even within a single style. Just try to avoid bullshit & bravado, and ask a school’s proprietors why their method is good for addressing real world self defense. Then tune your bullshit detector to “high”. Good luck, OP.

56

[quote]Wayland wrote:
A sign of the times give me a break, aye and you have the tanacity to ask me to stop posting. Maybe I should explain my post better.
[/quote]

You meant audacity. And yes, you should.

Even though you really really want this to be true, it’s not. You listed valid problems with TMA’s sure, including the cultish thing (although that is EVERYWHERE in EVERY MARTIAL ART) and the lack of live fire drills. But you also listed a lot of what typical MMA’ers say, even though they don’t have any experience in the art.

However, when confronted, someone will still react with what they know how to do. If you attack someone who knows aikido, they will throw you. In karate, they will punch or kick you- and though it might not look like you want it to, it just might work.

Half the curriculum of every art is useless in a real fight. 3/4 of BJJ- the parts aimed at competition and facing an advanced grappler- go out the window. Half of boxing goes out the window- your traps, broken rhythms, and several “styles” cannot be used. No art is more effective than any other one- it’s the teachers that make it. You cannot degrade an art because you don’t think it will work in the ring- someone like me doesn’t give two fucks about the ring. And what you’ve hated on so fiercely has, in fact, done pretty well for a good amount of people.

The days of people thinking that backflips and high kicks work in the street is gone- and the more traditional the dojo, the less they’re going to teach that.

They’re better off learning from a GOOD fucking teacher. The art is not as important as who teaches it.

57

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

The days of people thinking that backflips and high kicks work in the street is gone- and the more traditional the dojo, the less they’re going to teach that.

They’re better off learning from a GOOD fucking teacher. The art is not as important as who teaches it. [/quote]

A good teacher makes the word of difference, but if a good teacher is teaching shitty untested delivery systems then its still a shitty untested delivery system.

As for people teaching nonsense I Wish this where true, maybe in the USA, but in the UK and Korea where im currently training there are still instructors that are teaching Bullshit and Bullshit methods sadly noone is bringing them up on this. Talking to my american training partners they give me the impression that UFC and MMA had had alot of mainstream penetration there, thankfully educating alot of people.

Whats worse in the UK is instructors of Taekwondo, Karate and kungfu, watching some grappling tutorals and suddenly everyone is offering MMA classes.

Your right about traditional schools, ive been over to japan a few times for seminars and training, the Catch wrestling, Judo and Karate guys are hardcore and schools have small numbers of dedicated students. Maybe something is lost in translation when western instructors tailor it for mass consumption

58

Excellent post Miss Parker, a definitive response to the OP. Perhaps we should draw a line under the TMA versus Combat Sports argument, or take it into one of the other hundreds of threads where it has been done to death. That way the helpful stuff, especially Miss Parker’s post, will not get drowned in a mire of repetitive circular debate!

59

I thank you as well Miss Parker. We pretty much agreed, granted my post was much less eloquent. TMA’s in the purest form are useless in the real world unless they apply their teachings with resistive partners during sparring. No MA or self defense system accounts for every situation, so its best to prepare yourself for as many as you can. Stand up and ground fighting. You basically need to be a complete fighter and have skills in both, but most importantly, recognize a dangerous situation and create space to escape before resorting to anything else.

60

[quote]Wayland wrote:

A good teacher makes the word of difference, but if a good teacher is teaching shitty untested delivery systems then its still a shitty untested delivery system.

As for people teaching nonsense I Wish this where true, maybe in the USA, but in the UK and Korea where im currently training there are still instructors that are teaching Bullshit and Bullshit methods sadly noone is bringing them up on this. Talking to my american training partners they give me the impression that UFC and MMA had had alot of mainstream penetration there, thankfully educating alot of people.
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That is true- there are still lots of bad Mcdojos. But it is NOT the “delivery system,” as you call it. Every martial art has it’s purpose, and they can all be used for that purpose. Whether or not you train karate with live sparring, in situations that require it, you will react with moves from karate- and sometimes, no more or less than MMA, it will work.

A great instructor teaching Tai Chi will give you far more benefit than a shitty MT guy.

Absolutely right. That’s the quickest way to spot a con- I remember all of the Tiger SChulman’s places used to be all karate when that was the rage. A few years back, they learned grappling overnight and suddenly the sign said, “MMA and BJJ.” They must have some serious masters there if they mastered an intricate art like BJJ so quickly.

[quote]
Your right about traditional schools, ive been over to japan a few times for seminars and training, the Catch wrestling, Judo and Karate guys are hardcore and schools have small numbers of dedicated students. Maybe something is lost in translation when western instructors tailor it for mass consumption[/quote]

It sure is. When an art gets watered down, that’s when you can say it sucks. But remember- that ain’t the original art, that’s someone’s bastardization of it.