Generally speaking any kind of head on brute force type fighting is well used by larger fighters- keep in mind that most martial arts were created for smaller guys to be able to deal with larger and stronger opponents. Overly large guys has never been a favored positive in any martial arts due to the amount of energy that is expended in a fight as well as the lack of agility that usually accompanies sheer size- as with all things I believe an all around size, strength, and agitlity in balance makes the best platform for a fighter- but then there is heart, pain tolerance,and the key a fighters mentality that allows them to focus, adapt and overcome…All that aside bullying is imature and low with no honor and should be seen as such…
[quote]rasturai wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]drewh wrote:
Once you say that you cross into a huge gray area. [/quote]
Say what?[/quote]
Say whaaaa? lol[/quote]
Say what again! Say what one more goddamn time!
Aikido
It has worked well in police work. I don’t want to hurt guys because it means more paperwork for me, but I can still control him and do what I need to do. In situations where you do need to hurt him, it’s easy to make slight changes to the technique and throw him on his head or break the bones. Also, it keeps you off of the ground which is never a good thing in an uncontrolled environment.
Then there’s always the option of just reaching out and punching someone. Then it doesn’t matter what you train in, it’s all good.
Dude, if you like picking on “little shits” I dont think you even deserve an answer…
But, if its one of the other options… Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu (aikido with strikes, sorta), or Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu + wrestling our shuai Jiao (some of the moves only work if you are strong)
[quote]AndrewG909 wrote:
[quote]Gabe299 wrote:
my point exactly. on the street stay off the ground.[/quote]
x2
Being on the floor with limited mobility is not a good place to be when fighting in a unregulated style. Not only can other people come and kick the shit out of you, and I wont even mention the occasional dog that can jump in the mix, but if you’re grappling with someone it is hard to see what they are doing, they could easily pull a knife or gun with their free hand. Stay on your feet, stay mobile, and alert. Too many things can go wrong to be on the floor all tangled up with another person in a street fight.[/quote]
While this IS a good idea - I think the professional stats show (and my own personal experience) that most all fights go to the ground. So when you get there you better know what to do.
[quote]mmllcc wrote:
While this IS a good idea - I think the professional stats show (and my own personal experience) that most all fights go to the ground. So when you get there you better know what to do.
[/quote]
Glad to see you’re back, my trolling friend.
The idea that most fights go to the ground is a myth perpetuated by people who are selling the validity of grappling styles as viable means of self defense. Nothing more.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]mmllcc wrote:
While this IS a good idea - I think the professional stats show (and my own personal experience) that most all fights go to the ground. So when you get there you better know what to do.
[/quote]
Glad to see you’re back, my trolling friend.
The idea that most fights go to the ground is a myth perpetuated by people who are selling the validity of grappling styles as viable means of self defense. Nothing more.[/quote]
I don’t always troll. In any case what are your thoughts on this:
No matter, if you happen to get into a fight you don’t know what will happen. You could slip on a rock and fall on your ass, hit your head on another rock and die. So my point is, sure try and solve the issue standing up, but you better know what to do if it goes to the ground. That is sound advice and I don’t see how anybody with half a brain would disagree.
[quote]mmllcc wrote:
I don’t always troll. In any case what are your thoughts on this:
[/quote]
I think it’s reasonable, although my personal experience is that less than even 40 percent of fights go to the ground.
It’s not something that exactly helps your argument, because 40 percent of them having both fighters on the ground is not “most.”
You can’t count the 72 percent where one goes to the ground as a reason for learning groundfighting- if you charge me and I catch you with a check hook and sprawl your ass out, that don’t count as groundfighting, and it’s not going to inspire me to learn it either.
And finally, he’s analyzing youtube fights. I’ve probably watched all the same videos he has, I’m betting he’s analyzed the 1 on 1 fights… which in reality don’t account for the majority of street violence. Most of the shit on youtube is school yard shit where the kids actually even thought to bring cameras to record it.
Although I do have to say he was fairly objective for being a BJJ practioner. He must not own a dojo yet.
[quote]
No matter, if you happen to get into a fight you don’t know what will happen. You could slip on a rock and fall on your ass, hit your head on another rock and die. So my point is, sure try and solve the issue standing up, but you better know what to do if it goes to the ground. That is sound advice and I don’t see how anybody with half a brain would disagree.[/quote]
Agreed. But “knowing what to do” is not synonymous with “spend years learning ground fighting.”
I’ve learned enough in my own experiences and from different martial arts to know that the best way to fight on the ground is by getting the fuck back up as soon as possible.
[quote]mustang77 wrote:
Generally speaking any kind of head on brute force type fighting is well used by larger fighters- keep in mind that most martial arts were created for smaller guys to be able to deal with larger and stronger opponents. Overly large guys has never been a favored positive in any martial arts due to the amount of energy that is expended in a fight as well as the lack of agility that usually accompanies sheer size- as with all things I believe an all around size, strength, and agitlity in balance makes the best platform for a fighter- but then there is heart, pain tolerance,and the key a fighters mentality that allows them to focus, adapt and overcome…All that aside bullying is imature and low with no honor and should be seen as such…[/quote]
Yeah, I can’t think of any major traditional martial art started by a big strong guy emphasizing strength, power, and reach. Oh, wait:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:I think it’s reasonable, although my personal experience is that less than even 40 percent of fights go to the ground.
[/quote]
I remember watching either Fight Quest or the other similiar show where they went to the US Marines training and the BJJ guy pulled guard when someone jumped him. The guy pulled a plastic knife and showed him how stupid he was for putting himself on the ground. He stabbed the shit out of his legs and sides before the guy could do anything.
After watching that I decided I am never ever looking to go to the ground in any fight where I dont know what the other guy has. Its to easy to conceal a knife or another weapon that when on the ground can easily be jammed into some part of my body.
[quote]punchedbear wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:I think it’s reasonable, although my personal experience is that less than even 40 percent of fights go to the ground.
[/quote]
I remember watching either Fight Quest or the other similiar show where they went to the US Marines training and the BJJ guy pulled guard when someone jumped him. The guy pulled a plastic knife and showed him how stupid he was for putting himself on the ground. He stabbed the shit out of his legs and sides before the guy could do anything.
After watching that I decided I am never ever looking to go to the ground in any fight where I dont know what the other guy has. Its to easy to conceal a knife or another weapon that when on the ground can easily be jammed into some part of my body. [/quote]
Two things:
-
That was an awesome episode.
-
I recommend the Ka-Bar TDI Last Ditch Knife for just this move. When I was working the border I wore one right next to my belt buckle on my midline, where I could draw it with either hand. I just had the sheath stitched right onto my nylon gunbelt. A quick and nasty surprise I fortunately never had to use.
ya it was a very good episode. It defenitly showed the difference between sport martial art and combat martial arts. Makes me almost wanna join the marines just to try and train with them.
I have never had to use a knife for any kind of fight but if I do I know now which one. They just showed me no amount of training in a sport like MMA can prepare you to fight an opponent who doesnt wanna win a fight but wants to kill you. I just liked that everything they did was designed to kill or neutralize an opponent very quickly. There were no combos just smash the other guy fast.
MCMAP technique is meant to be performed while exhausted, on uneven surfaces, in full gear, against people who may want to kill you but who you may not want dead. At the tan belt (USMC boot camp) level it is better than nothing, but it’s only 12 weeks of instruction. There is some basic striking, throwing, grappling, and falling, but because of time constraints even that limited curriculum isn’t hit all that hard. Because of this, even some Marines get the impression that MCMAP is BS. However, that’s like saying Jiu Jitsu is BS because you saw some white belt get choked out in a bar once.
If you ever get a chance to play with the black belts and instructor trainers at Quantico, you get a whole different experience. The training is brutal, the instructors have no pity, and everyone there is motivated to be there. It’s not just a physical discipline either, there are classes in everything from deescalation to great warrior cultures of the past. As you saw on that show it also includes fighting with bayonets, improvised weapons, and knives; fighting against multiple attackers; and fighting in adverse conditions such as while breathing in OC. I wouldn’t take just MCMAP into an MMA ring, but that’s not the point. It teaches enough skills, well enough, that the fighter has an advantage against anyone but an expert in a particular style.
[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
[quote]punchedbear wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:I think it’s reasonable, although my personal experience is that less than even 40 percent of fights go to the ground.
[/quote]
I remember watching either Fight Quest or the other similiar show where they went to the US Marines training and the BJJ guy pulled guard when someone jumped him. The guy pulled a plastic knife and showed him how stupid he was for putting himself on the ground. He stabbed the shit out of his legs and sides before the guy could do anything.
After watching that I decided I am never ever looking to go to the ground in any fight where I dont know what the other guy has. Its to easy to conceal a knife or another weapon that when on the ground can easily be jammed into some part of my body. [/quote]
Two things:
-
That was an awesome episode.
-
I recommend the Ka-Bar TDI Last Ditch Knife for just this move. When I was working the border I wore one right next to my belt buckle on my midline, where I could draw it with either hand. I just had the sheath stitched right onto my nylon gunbelt. A quick and nasty surprise I fortunately never had to use. [/quote]
Which episode is this? I want to watch it.
first part of it and the links to the rest are on the side if you go to the youtube page.
Looks like the training we do at our yearly summer camps. Only less refined and complete (from an empty hand perspective) 
Probably, but you don’t have an M16 as your primary weapon. =)
[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
Probably, but you don’t have an M16 as your primary weapon. =)[/quote]
Haha, true.
[quote]punchedbear wrote:
first part of it and the links to the rest are on the side if you go to the youtube page.[/quote]
Awesome, thanks.